ayoku777:


Where is the prejudice here? I have used scriptural verses for every opinion I've raised.

Celibacy is good, but what I'm trying to correct is your claim that it is better than marriage. That is not true and Jesus never said or even implied that.

Jesus said,

All men cannot receive this saying save they to whom it is given. -Matthew 19v11

He didn't make it a matter of greater strenght or superior spirituality, but a matter of calling.

If a man does not accept celibacy, it is because it is not his calling; it is not because he is not spiritual enough or love God enough.

The same God that calls some into celibacy is the same God that joins others together in holy matrimony. And both are for his glory and his kingdom.

The sacrifices a celibate person makes for the glory of God is not greater than the sacrifices a married person makes for the glory of God.

A married person makes sacrifices and denies himself many things to glorify and please God in his marriage, the same way a celibate makes sacrifices in his own way to please God in his celibacy. And none is greater than the other.

Apostle Paul that was celibate is not greater than Apostle Peter that was married. If Paul will be greater than Peter in the age to come, it will not be in the context of celibacy versus marriage.

This is the point or record I was trying to set straight. There is no competition or battle of supremacy between celibacy and marriage. You can please and glorify God under both through the Spirit.

Shalom.

tyuhd:

God did!but we all agree that most men and women marry to fufil sexual desire and there is a sense in which sexual relations even in marriage makes one sinful and unholy.The fact that God ordains a thing doesn't necessary mean it is holy,see david for instance,God commanded and even providentially set some wars before him and yet God told him not to build a temple in honour of his name because he had shed so much blood..the human race had to replenish the earth through God ordained means--sex.but in latter revelation Christ encourages and even persuade his listener to embrace celebacy which is superior to marriage
Btw i'm not saying i've sexual urge as that,i was only praying that God deliver men and women from.....

tyuhd:

Sir I hope u understand what i've written because it's a bit difficult typing here.
Ok,even if I'm forced to admit celebacy is a 'calling',are all callings of same cadre?aren't there greater callings?Remember 1 Corinthians 14:5....but even more I wish you could all prophesy.For prophecy is GREATER than speaking in tongues,...and yet it is the same Spirit who calls to these offices 1 Cor12:1.Are We all Sons of God John 1:12 in the same way as Christ? or are there offspring of Adam greater than John the Baptist?Wasn't He called to a position of greater Honour?Again Sir,if you're convinced celebacy is a 'calling' then we necessarily have to conclude same for marriage.But this is where the rubber meets the road--HOW CAN A MAN BE CALLED TO AN OFFICE HE IS VERY IGNORANT OF AND ALL THE WHILE HE IS IN ENMITY TO THE CALLER--A Wordling who decides to get married tommorow to gratify His sexual need has been 'called' to it,right? and the buddhist monk who embraces celebacy for gautama's sake?funny indeed!
My Dear,What I've been saying is,Marriage is simply a natural consequence of the natural order,ordained by God that's why Christ said not everyone CAN accept it--Celebacy.To the apostles "To Have made oneself a enunch" understood it to mean superior spirituality So Christ reiterates V12 "Let anyone accept this who can.”Accept what?The "strong meat" of his teaching.
If you're sincere sir,you must admit that celebates have lesser and lesser entanglement in this fleeting world than the married from what rev14v11 said.
Indeed The scripture says,1 Corinthians 7:20 Yes,each of you should remain as you were when God called you.SO HOW CAN A MAN BE IN A CALLING BEFORE HE IS EVEN CALLED?I mean,a wordling who gets married before surrendering to Christ.
My Point Has always been;Marriage is good but celebacy is better.1 Corinthians 7:38 So the person who marries his fiancée does well, and the person who doesn’t marry does even better.whether the phrase used there was bethrothed or any other word it doesn't escape the obvious if you've read from preceeding verse
with love.

ayoku777:


This is the kind of dishonesty that puts me off.

Is prophecy a calling or a gift of the Spirit that any christian can covet and be given?

Prophecy and speaking in tongues are not callings, they are gifts. And any christian can covet and receive them, unlike celibacy that can only be received by those unto whom it is given by God.

Is this sincere ignorance or just deliberate dishonesty in the use of scripture?

Don't compare calling with gifts. You can covet gifts and ask God and he will give you. But you can't covet callings. You can't ask God to make you a prophet or a pastor; it is God's prerogative to do that. But you can ask Him for gifts.

And what do you mean marriage is a natural consequence of a natural order?

Are you aware that Jesus and the church will be married forever and ever? Long after the natural order is gone, marriage will still exist between Christ and His church. Marriage is a divine and eternal order.

Marriage is good, and celibacy is good. But none is better than the other. If you celibate yourself when God has not called you into it; you don't get an extra applause from God for that.

If Zechariah and Elizabeth had chosen to celibate themselves, would they not have missed out on their calling to bring forth the forerunner of the Messiah?

And if Joseph and Mary had celibated themselves, would they not missed out on their calling to bring forth the Messiah?

Celibacy is a calling, so don't compare it to gifts. It is not a gift like prophecy and tongues; and it is not a doctrine like prayer and fasting -it is a calling. And since it is a calling, if you make yourself one, it doesn't earn you an extra applause.

We are rewarded for Christlikeness; and Christlikeness is in obedience to God; not just in self will or self restrain in what you're not called into. Even monks and buddhist have self will too; but that doesn't make them Christlike.

Come on, come on. Honesty!

Shalom

tyuhd:

Sorry I'd to reply late.I'd a flat battery coupled with my tight lectures.
Why do we always hide under different garb and banner to conceal our inadequacies whenever it has to do with things of greater sacrifice and commitment.First off,You Have to realise that I never really admitted your,"celebacy is a calling".I was only using a simple syllogism to conclude that if celebacy is a calling,than it must necessarily follow that marriage is.then I used it "marriage is a calling" to arrive at an absurd conclusion.Pls answer the bolded in my previous post!.As to callings and gift,We all agree'callings' isn't necessarily dependent on our choices,but rather it depends solely on God's will,Good!.but the scripture appeals to our choice whenever it calls for a celebate life.Matthew 19:12 Some are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by others, and some CHOOSE not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven.Let anyone accept this who can.”.and again scripture appeals to our choice 1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they can’t control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It’s BETTER TO MARRY THAN TO BURN WITH LUST.So why do we always arrive at the conclusion,"celebacy is a gift"because we lack self control 1Cor7:5 Now as to gifts and callings.I wasn't saying prophecy and tongue speaking were callings,though in some cases some were called or better still 'Predestined' to prophesy see Jeremiah 1:4-5 The Lord gave me this message:“I knew you ...... I set you apart and APPOINTED you as my prophet to the nations.”What do prophets do?Of course,Prophesy! Was this a calling or a gift?Obviously,God called Jeremiah to prophesy,so in a sense we're right concluding it is a calling.I was only using the "...prophecy is greater than speaking in..." as a great illuatration,that was why i cited Adam and Christ and my reasoning goes thus:IF SOME HAVE BEEN BESTOWED WITH GREATER GIFT,WHY SHOULDN'T OTHERS BE CALLED TO HIGER CALLINGS as your supposed "callings" portrays.
So I still insist that Celebacy is way way superior to marriage.See what Scriptures say in same chapter 1 Corinthians 7:9,32-34 An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord’s work and thinking how to please him. But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife. His interests are divided. In the same way, a woman who is no longer married or has never been married can be devoted to the Lord and HOLY IN BODY AND SPIRIT.But a married woman has to think about her earthly responsibilities and how to please her husband.
It is very obvious from this verse that THE UNMARRIED HAVE A MEASURE OF HOLINESS THAT THE MARRIED DO NOT HAVE BY VIRTUE OF STATUS and like rev14vs11 has said,there is a sense in which SEX MAKES EVEN A SAINT LESS HOLY.
SHALOM.

tyuhd:

So I still insist that Celebacy is way way superior to marriage.See what Scriptures say in same chapter 1 Corinthians 7:9,32-34 An unmarried man can spend his time doing the Lord’s work and thinking how to please him. But a married man has to think about his earthly responsibilities and how to please his wife. His interests are divided. In the same way, a woman who is no longer married or has never been married can be devoted to the Lord and HOLY IN BODY AND SPIRIT.But a married woman has to think about her earthly responsibilities and how to please her husband.
It is very obvious from this verse that THE UNMARRIED HAVE A MEASURE OF HOLINESS THAT THE MARRIED DO NOT HAVE BY VIRTUE OF STATUS and like rev14vs11 has said,there is a sense in which SEX MAKES EVEN A SAINT LESS HOLY.
SHALOM.

ayoku777:


I think we really need to go back to the basics and see the error of your interpretation.

You're adding to the words of Christ and implying what He didn't say.

Let's see what Jesus said;

Matthew 19v11-12 -But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Now let's study what Jesus said:

1. All men can not receive the saying of celibacy unless they to whom it is given.

2. Some people are born celibate. They didn't choose celibacy; circumstance of birth made them celibate.

3. Some people are made celibate by men e.g slaves. They also didn't choose celibacy; it was imposed on them by men.

4. Then some people make themselves celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God. It wasn't a circumstance of birth or an imposition of man; they chose to receive it.

The question is; How were they able to choose celibacy for kingdom's sake? Jesus already answered that question in verse 11;

Matthew 19v11 -But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

They were able to receive it because they were given. Simple! They were not given because they could receive it, they could receive it because they were given.

If they were not given, they cannot receive it. It is not a matter of greater strenght on their part or superior spirituality. NO! They were able to take up the charge of celibacy for the sake of the kingdom because they were given the calling.

Please, where in all these statements by Jesus did He say or even remotely imply that celibacy and the ability to receive the charge is a sign of greater spirituality than those who are married? Or that they will be greater in the age to come than those who married because of their celibacy?

You won't find such an explanation. Because Jesus never said or implied so. You would need to add to the words of Christ to make such assumptions or draw such conclusions.

If anyone is ever able to receive celibacy for kingdom's sake, it is because AND ONLY BECAUSE it was given him by God. Because according to Jesus, only those to whom it is given can receive it.

If this is clear enough, then we can move on to the explanation of the error of you saying sex can defile even if it is between married people.

But I don't want to write epistles explaining things step by step to someone whose mind is already made up about what he wants to believe.

Shalom!

tyuhd:

I really think you're getting it wrong.You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.Why are you trying to escape the obvious?saying A implies B but B doesn't imply A. Here is the State of the question:Is celebacy a calling or merely a matter of Human choice?If it's a calling?Why does the scripture makes it a matter of choice?"...some CHOOSE not to marry for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven.......V12" and not "Some where Called not not marry" infact in the same V12 He tells us,"Let anyone accept this who CAN".You seem to stress,"save they to whom it is given".But what were they given since Christ had made it a matter of choice?I think the NLT captures it accurately,“Not everyone can accept this statement,” Jesus said.“Only those whom God helps".God helped them lived the celebate life after they were determined and resolved by their choice to live the good life.Simple! it wasn't because God called them to it and again Like I've always spoken,if celebacy is a calling then so is marriage-- but this will certainly lead to absurd conclusion.

ayoku777:


About sex making a saint less holy. Let me quote the scripture you're refering to in full:

Rev 14v3-4 -And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

These 144,000 are not necessarily literal virgins as if they are not married. Virginity is used contextually in scripture when refering to the purity and sanctification of the church or the people of God. When God's people are redeemed from the world and her ways, and set apart unto Christ; they become "virgins".

Look at this verse:

2Cor 11v2 -For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

These Corinthians are not literal virgins either. God's people that are redeemed from the world and her ways and set apart unto Christ are as a chaste virgin. This is the context in which these 144,000 are called virgins. They are not literal virgins as if not married. They are virgins in the context of being redeemed from the earth and its evil ways.

Verse 3 makes that context very clear;

Rev 14v3 -...the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

And also, the "women" that these 144,000 didn't defile themselves with are not literal women. The women are Babylon and her daugthers. Remember Babylon is called the Mother of Harlots.

Rev 17v5 -And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Babylon is the satan-controlled system of this world; and her daughters are the satan-controlled religious systems, political systems, and economic systems of this world.

These are the "women" that these 144,000 did not defile themselves with -Babylon and her harlot daughters (the world system and her anti-Christ religions, politics and economies).

This is the context in which this 144,000 are called "virgins" and "were not defile with women".

Literal marriage and literal sex with your spouse is not a sin and it does not defile in any way. And the scriptures make that clear.

Hebrews 13v4 - Marriage is honourable in ALL, and the bed UNDEFILED: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

The bed of sex in marriage is undefiled. You don't get defiled having literal sex with your partner within the covenant of marriage.

Shalom.

ayoku777:


Who told you calling and choice are mutually exclusive? Does call you and then force you to answer the call? If God calls you, you still reserve the choice to answer the call or not.

So if God calls you into kingdom celibacy, you can choose not to receive it. But you can't even choose to receive kingdom celibacy in the first place unless you were given the charge or calling by God.

So those who can choose to receive and make themselves celibate for the kingdom can receive it because the calling was given them.

And please, Jesus didn't say, "only those God helps after they have determined to be celibate". That's a lie! He said "only those it is given can even receive the saying or charge of celibacy". Please don't add to or twist the words of Christ. He said only those to whom the charge or calling is given can receive kingdom celibacy.

Matthew 19v11-12 -But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

See that? Don't add to or twist Christ's words.

Shalom!

This is how cults start......


God made male and female and he ordained marriage, to preach otherwise is a sin.

"by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage ..." - 1 Timothy 4:3a

1 Timothy 5:14
So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander.

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral


Young ones do not be deceived by these self appointed mouth pieces for 'God '.

Marry and enjoy your wife or husband to the fullest, nothing wrong with that.

However if you have it in you to remain single , your choice is respected, only don't preach it as the norm.

tyuhd:

I really do think we're going theological and it has to do with whether a Man can resist God's will or Not.Well for me As well might a worm seek to resist the tread of an elephant; as well might a babe step between the railroad tracks and attempt to push back the express train; as well might a child seek to prevent the ocean from rolling, as for a creature to try and resist the outworking of the purpose of the Lord God.If it's a calling it can never be resisted for Acts 9:5 .....it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.God has a will and Man also has a will but who is sovereign?So Yes they're mutually exclusive.
Shalom

tyuhd:

God's commandment aren't graffiti merely used to decorate to comfort and instruct us.No! there is something in them that tells us alot about God's attributes,character and how He views his creation.for instance God commanded and even providentially set some wars King david and yet He forbade him building a temple in Honour of His name.From this, we may see that though God ordains and even providentially set those wars and sometimes David himself inquired of the Lord before setting out for warfare it was still contrary to God's essence.Now! if we honestly take a very brief survey through the law and the prophet we would get a glimpse of how God perceives Sex.In Psalms 51:5 David cries out,"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me".If David confesses to have being conceived in sin the it must necessarily follow that THE DEED(sex) which produced the ACT(conception) must necessarily be sinful too! no escaping that logic!.In Exodus 19:15 when God was to appear to the isrealite He forbade sex and only sex three days prior to His arrival?A question begs to asked,but why?In the law of God when a man defiles Himself by several forms of Impurity such as touching a creeping animal or any other means He was for for most cases declared unclean till sundown.but when a man has sexual relations,Yes even with His wife he was declared unclean for TWO DAYS.Leviticus 15:18 After a man and a woman have sexual intercourse, they must each bathe in water, and they will remain unclean until the next evening.and when a Man accidentally engages in sexual relation with a woman during her period of menstrual impurity he was declared unclean for SEVEN DAYS.Leviticus 15:24 If a man has sexual intercourse with her and her blood touches him, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain unclean for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be unclean.And I would remind you they were 'created' by God?When a priest was to carryout His religous duty He was to refrain from sex and even david knew the truth of this.1 Samuel 21:4-5 “We don’t have any regular bread,” the priest replied. “But there is the holy bread, which you can have if your young men have not slept with any women recently.” “Don’t worry,” David replied. “I never allow my men to be with women when they are on a campaign. And since they stay clean even on ordinary trips, how much more on this one!” and the same is also true of christains in NT times.1 Corinthians 7:5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to PRAYER AND FASTING.Afterward,you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of SELF-CONTROL.Why must we abstain from intimacy just as from food Ay,there must be something inherently wrong in it!.So we can see God's estimation of it.One of the major function of marriage is procreation--Sex but even marriage itself would become worthess soon.Luke 20:34 Jesus replied,“Marriage is for people here on earth Luke 20:34-35 Jesus replied, “Marriage is for people here on earth. But in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN in marriage".So,The phrase "bride of Christ" doen't mean marriage in the proper sense of the word.it's simply using human lang to express spiritual truth.Marriage is not ETERNAL.Did I can hear you say,"That was the OT" Yes but they tell us alot about How God perceives things and He doesn't change Mal 3:6.there is more i would love to write but off to class.
NB:I'm not a celebate and may not be one but I must always stand for the truth.I'm very busy,test here and there and as such I may not reply for a while.
SHALOM!

ayoku777:


Don't get selective on the things God called unclean or wrong under the law contained in carnal ordinancies. It is not just sex that was termed as sin or unclean or wrong under the old covenant.

Even shaving your beards was a sin under the law. Also, people with physical deformities are also not allowed to be priests or to minister in God's house. Even menstruating women are not also allowed in the house of God and the congregation of His people.

Its a pleasure engaging you too sir have a nice time.

So even if a woman is celibate and does not have sex, by your standard she would still be unclean in God's eyes because of her menstruation.

So a woman can never be fully clean in the eyes of God, if we define sin and uncleanliness by the standard of the law, which you claim still reveals God's character even now under the new covenant.

Me and you both know that is so untrue now. God does not change but He changes things. And He has changed the definition of what defiles a man now. It is no more what enters a man or woman that defiles them now as it was the case under the law, but what comes out of their heart.

So now under the new covenant, someone with physical deformities can minister in God's house, a menstruating woman can enter into God's presence. Shaving your beards is no more a sin; and sex no longer defiles in the confines of marriage.

Honestly bro, I am really tired now. We are beginning to argue in circles now.

Let's just end it here. It was nice engaging you, doctrinal differences not withstanding.

God bless you.

ayoku777:


Don't get selective on the things God called unclean or wrong under the law contained in carnal ordinancies. It is not just sex that was termed as sin or unclean or wrong under the old covenant.

Even shaving your beards was a sin under the law. Also, people with physical deformities are also not allowed to be priests or to minister in God's house. Even menstruating women are not also allowed in the house of God and the congregation of His people.

So even if a woman is celibate and does not have sex, by your standard she would still be unclean in God's eyes because of her menstruation.

So a woman can never be fully clean in the eyes of God, if we define sin and uncleanliness by the standard of the law, which you claim still reveals God's character even now under the new covenant.

Me and you both know that is so untrue now. God does not change but He changes things. And He has changed the definition of what defiles a man now. It is no more what enters a man or woman that defiles them now as it was the case under the law, but what comes out of their heart.

So now under the new covenant, someone with physical deformities can minister in God's house, a menstruating woman can enter into God's presence. Shaving your beards is no more a sin; and sex no longer defiles in the confines of marriage.

Honestly bro, I am really tired now. We are beginning to argue in circles now.

Let's just end it here. It was nice engaging you, doctrinal differences not withstanding.

God bless you.

ayoku777:
Double post!

Sheggy13:

The scripture said some made themselves eunuchs(celibate) for the sake of the kingdom. They made a decision,a choice and were not called into it as you've been trying to make us believe in this thread. Read other bible translations and not only sticking with the part of KJV saying let those who can receive it,receive it to mean that they're being called into such life. Let's be honest with ourselves, you have more time to dedicate yourself to the things of God being celibate than when you're thinking of your wife's and children's needs (financial, physical, emotional etc)which are the central things to a married man's mind.

tyuhd:

God's commandment aren't graffiti merely used to decorate to comfort and instruct us.No! there is something in them that tells us alot about God's attributes,character and how He views his creation.for instance God commanded and even providentially set some wars King david and yet He forbade him building a temple in Honour of His name.From this, we may see that though God ordains and even providentially set those wars and sometimes David himself inquired of the Lord before setting out for warfare it was still contrary to God's essence.Now! if we honestly take a very brief survey through the law and the prophet we would get a glimpse of how God perceives Sex.In Psalms 51:5 David cries out,"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me".If David confesses to have being conceived in sin the it must necessarily follow that THE DEED(sex) which produced the ACT(conception) must necessarily be sinful too! no escaping that logic!.In Exodus 19:15 when God was to appear to the isrealite He forbade sex and only sex three days prior to His arrival?A question begs to asked,but why?In the law of God when a man defiles Himself by several forms of Impurity such as touching a creeping animal or any other means He was for for most cases declared unclean till sundown.but when a man has sexual relations,Yes even with His wife he was declared unclean for TWO DAYS.Leviticus 15:18 After a man and a woman have sexual intercourse, they must each bathe in water, and they will remain unclean until the next evening.and when a Man accidentally engages in sexual relation with a woman during her period of menstrual impurity he was declared unclean for SEVEN DAYS.Leviticus 15:24 If a man has sexual intercourse with her and her blood touches him, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain unclean for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be unclean.And I would remind you they were 'created' by God?When a priest was to carryout His religous duty He was to refrain from sex and even david knew the truth of this.1 Samuel 21:4-5 “We don’t have any regular bread,” the priest replied. “But there is the holy bread, which you can have if your young men have not slept with any women recently.” “Don’t worry,” David replied. “I never allow my men to be with women when they are on a campaign. And since they stay clean even on ordinary trips, how much more on this one!” and the same is also true of christains in NT times.1 Corinthians 7:5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to PRAYER AND FASTING.Afterward,you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of SELF-CONTROL.Why must we abstain from intimacy just as from food Ay,there must be something inherently wrong in it!.So we can see God's estimation of it.One of the major function of marriage is procreation--Sex but even marriage itself would become worthess soon.Luke 20:34 Jesus replied,“Marriage is for people here on earth Luke 20:34-35 Jesus replied, “Marriage is for people here on earth. But in the age to come, those worthy of being raised from the dead will NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN in marriage".So,The phrase "bride of Christ" doen't mean marriage in the proper sense of the word.it's simply using human lang to express spiritual truth.Marriage is not ETERNAL.Did I can hear you say,"That was the OT" Yes but they tell us alot about How God perceives things and He doesn't change Mal 3:6.there is more i would love to write but off to class.
NB:I'm not a celebate and may not be one but I must always stand for the truth.I'm very busy,test here and there and as such I may not reply for a while.
SHALOM!

ayoku777:


Those who made themselves eunuchs or celibate for the kingdom were able to make themselves because it was given them. They couldn't receive the desire or ability for kingdom celibacy unless the calling was given them. Those are the words of Christ.

And what do you mean a celibate has more time to dedicate himself to "the things of God"?

According to the bible, the family is part of "the things of God". Taking care of your family is part of the work of God.

Infact Paul said, the way a man takes care of his family is a measure and proof of how he will take care of the flocks of God. So much that he made taking care of your home one of the criterias for being a bishop and a deacon.

1Tim 3v4-5 -One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

I think the mistake you're making is that you think when a man is taking care of his family and home, he is being distracted from the work of God. You don't realise that taking care of the home is part of ministry work (the work of God) -not a distraction from it.

Shalom!

biggerboyc:
I must confess young man with all your arguement and bible knowledge you must be very sound

biggerboyc:
@ayoku tyuhd raised some question which you never really answered there are many more but here are 3 question i will cut and paste them here
1. You insisted celebacy is a calling and he(tyuhd) said it must necessarily follow with marriage then he said
SO HOW CAN A MAN BE IN A CALLING
BEFORE HE IS EVEN CALLED?

biggerboyc:
2. on superiority he said
IF SOME HAVE BEEN BESTOWED WITH GREATER GIFT,WHY SHOULDN'T OTHERS BE CALLED TO HIGER CALLINGS

biggerboyc:
3. He said In Psalms 51:5 David cries out,"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me".If David confesses to have being conceived in sin the it must necessarily follow that THE DEED(sex) which produced the ACT(conception) must necessarily be sinful too! no escaping that logic!

ayoku777:


Thank God and thank you.



[quote/]In the bible and by the standard of the word of God, everyone is meant to be celibate before getting married. But that doesn't mean they have the calling of celibacy, they are only celibate because they are not yet married.

But when a christian is celibate because He doesn't want to get married for the sake of the kingdom of God, he is able to receive it because it is given him as a calling.

You understand? Celibacy because you're not yet married is not a calling, it is obedience to the doctrine of "no sex before marriage". But celibacy because you don't want to marry for the kingdom's sake is not a doctrine, it is a calling. And only those who are given the calling from God can receive the desire and ability to do it, according to Jesus.

Matthew 19v11 -But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. =[quote/]

I think You're yet to understand his stance on this .He is saying,you both agree celebacy and marriage are callings correct me pls cos I might be wrong.
But we have seen many unsaved,married couples,are they called to it?if yes,that will be ridiculous and if no but we can shy from the fact,they're married.

[quote\]Gifts according to the scripture can be greater than eachother.

1Cor 14v5 -I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues,

But you can covet and earnestly desire any of the gifts you want.

1Cor 12v31 -But covet earnestly the best gifts:

1Cor 14v39 -Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

So gifts can be greater than eachother; and even though God can share them sovereignly; the choice of who gets which is ultimately in the hands of the seeker.

But unlike gifts, callings are not greater than eachother. A Pastor is not greater than a Teacher; an Apostle is not spiritually superior to an Evangelist; and a celibate is not greater than a married believer.

1Cor 3v5-7 - Who then is Paul (the Apostle), and who is Apollos (the Teacher), but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

What determines greatness in calling is in how Christlike we are in the discharge of the calling; and our faithfulness in the labour of it. It is not the calling itself that is greater.

1Cor 3v8 -Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

A Teacher who is more Christlike and faithful in his calling will be greater than an Apostle who is less Christlike and faithful in his calling. And a married man who is more Christlike and faithful in His marriage will be greater than a celibate who is less Christlike and faithful in his.

So there are greater gifts, but no greater calling. Only greater Christlikeness and faithfulness in the labour of the calling.[quote/]

This is brillant! but maybe he has his own objection.

[quote\]When David said;

Psalm 51v5 -Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

He was not talking about the act of sex. He was talking about the concept of the "original sin"; the sin of being conceived and born in the image of the first Adam.

When Adam fell and became a sinner, everyone conceived and born of a woman, was born in the image of the first Adam, who was a sinner.

Genesis 5v3 -And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

So sin there is not the act of sex, but the image of sinful Adam in which everyone born of a woman is conceived and born.

Even Jesus that was conceived and born without the act of sex was made in the likeness of sinful flesh.

Romans 8v3 -For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So even Jesus that was conceived and born of a virgin birth, without the act of sex was also born in the likeness of sinful flesh. That was why He too could suffer temptation and death.

So being conceived in sin, according to David is not in the act of sex; but the image of sinful Adam in which everyone born of a woman is conceived and born. It is the sin of the image of the first Adam, not the sin of the act of sex.

Sex is not a sin.

Shalom and God bless.

biggerboyc:
I disagree here sir.Maybe tyuhd should shed more light on His
stance.This is it:If Scripture c
forbids fornication and we know lust is the womb of fornication,then of
course it is also a sin though the scripture be silent about it.So tyuhd
is saying through procreation man inherits original sim then it must
also follow that sex is a simn.correct me on any error but i think he
should elaborate more.

biggerboyc:
I disagree here sir. Maybe tyuhd should shed more light on His stance. This is it:If Scripture forbids fornication and we know lust is the womb of fornication,then of course it is also a sin though the scripture be silent about it. So tyuhd is saying through procreation man inherits original sim then it must also follow that sex is a sin. Correct me on any error but i think he should elaborate more.

LordReed:


This logic is poor. It is like saying since lust is a sin and it is created when you see then seeing is a sin. Since gluttony is a sin which is done by eating then eating is a sin. Follow this kind of logic and everything is a sin.

tyuhd:
I really think you're building a doctrine on one verse without taking the context into consideration and also I think the branch you're sitting on is the,"...only those to whom it has been given".Well,it's obvious all your assumptions are based on it,so setting the record straight on this,makes all other arguement inconsequential
Now Pls notice the context Christ made the statement.You would clearly observe Christ wasn't refering to celebacy by that phrase and it's totally disconnected from it.
Mattew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.
Here Christ is forbiding divorce and remariage for any other grounds whether it's wife battery,drunkiness,lying and on and on EXCEPT adultery
Mattew 19:10 The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."
The disciples react appropriately to Christ statement saying emphatically marriage must be a very rigid and difficult union since He doesn't allow for divorce.And So Here is His reply
Mattew 19:11 Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word,but only those whom it has been given".
So Which word was Christ referring to Here,I mean V11?The Call to celebacy? No! No! No! No! No!
Obviously He hadn't even begun to discuss celebacy here so It must be His rigid restriction on divorce and remarriage as it's evident from V10 and the disciples response to His restriction on it,and so He says," ...only those to whom it has been given" Given what?Given the ability to grapple with the fact that can't divorce a spouse for any other reason except for sexual sin....Simple!
And I hope you realise your assertion,"celebacy is a calling" crumbles and so He appeals to our choice when talking about celebacy V12
And I hope You realise;You've unavoidably concluded,"Marriage is a calling"
So this are questions biggerboyc failed to ask
1.Have the unsaved couples who got married yesterday,Have they being called to it?
2.If a Man decides to get married solely to gratify His sexual lust,has He being called to it?
On 2.I really think it would be needless as long as we come to grapple with the joke of,"Celebacy is a calling"

ayoku777:


Thanks so much for this example; I wouldn't even had replied if I had seen this your explanation first. Its exactly the point I was making. That logic of arriving at what sin is is so wrong.

LordReed:


You do know that for is a conjunction and a synonym for because right? So how is He speaking of marriage when He says "for (because) there are some eunuchs..."?