duni04:
I have a question for you. I read in the papers last week that one herbalist in ogun state has a cure for ebola. Do we get the consent of the Ebola patients to be treated by this babalawo in ogun state?

Yes. Let's get their consent and give them salt and water too.

duni04:
I have a question for you. I read in the papers last week that one herbalist in ogun state has a cure for ebola. Do we get the consent of the Ebola patients to be treated by this babalawo in ogun state?

Well thought up question. . . Although my 5 year old cousin would have done exceptionally better. I am not sure how vast your knowledge on intricate things like these are, but if you have been doing some deep study "research" I am sure you'd have come across Nano silver and foodgrade hydrogen. Peroxides in a handful of ocassions. Do some research before trying to be smart. BTW, the US citizens who got Zmapp consented to its use.

People don't know it takes a lengthy period of time spanning months to effectively test the chronic impacts/effects/efficacy of drugs . . . .

With the emergency situation on ground. . .It will be futile for us to envisage taking that route. . . . .

jmaine: People don't know it takes a lengthy period of time spanning months to effectively test the chronic impacts/effects/efficacy of drugs . . . .

With the emergency situation on ground. . .It will be futile for us to envisage taking that route. . . . .

Thank you.

Some idi.oots on this thread think you can just grab a monkey on the street and lace it with EVD and then test the bloody nanosilver on it the next day!

Awon oponu radarada

jmaine: People don't know it takes a lengthy period of time spanning months to effectively test the chronic impacts/effects/efficacy of drugs . . . .

With the emergency situation on ground. . .It will be futile for us to envisage taking that route. . . . .

My point exactly! So what should be done? Just watch in sadness or "try" something?

phreakabit: 1, Should we just fold out arms n watch them die or should we try something?

No, we shouldn't. We should evaluate all available options that show some promise, and find out whether there is anyone that we can nudge along faster (we should be ready to spend money on this; research costs money). We are not equipped to go into Ebola research, and we should not even dabble there. It takes a decade of planning and funding to grow competence in a research area, so lets not start something we can't finish.

In the interim, we manage the patients using best practices that have been developed and refined since the first Ebola outbreak. That way, we expect ~40% of them to survive, drug or no drug.

2, Since we say bitter kola is a hoax, Nano Silver looks like our only option at the moment. . . What next?

What next is: as I said above, we are in no position to conduct Ebola research. Dabbling into it may result in devastating long-term consequences.

3, Shouldnt we allow Ebola patients consent to treatment with Nano Silver?

This is an ethical issue with deep implications. If an Ebola victim decides to try swallow an acid, should we stop him? I think in this case, the view of doctors is that they cannot ethically allow their patients to try an unscientific cure. When lives are at risk, doctors often turn a blind eye (allowing a patient to drink holy water etc) however, I believe that the ethics of their profession cannot allow them do this *while the patient in under their care*. However, in the case of a pathogen such as Ebola, I think the risk of mutation prevents a doctor from allowing a cure unless there is some evidence (no matter how tenuous) of efficacy.

4, If nano silver does cure Ebola should the cured be put into observation again for some weeks just to monitor their health and behavior before allowing them back into public? I think they should.

The premise to the second part of your question is that Nano does cure Ebola in humans. There is nothing that indicates that at the present.

bigass: Nigerians are stupidd. Thats my take on this. How would a sane person say it's an APC thing. You guys have forgotten that people survive it and giving them might reduce their chances?

Reading Nairaland one can't help wondering.

ElFenomeno1:

Thank you.

Some idi.oots on this thread think you can just grab a monkey on the street and lace it with EVD and then test the bloody nanosilver on it the next day!

Awon oponu radarada

We are desperate for a solution, hence the heightened display of toxicological ignorance by my brethren . . . .

phreakabit:
My point exactly! So what should be done? Just watch in sadness or "try" something?

If Zmapp has been approved as a near solution, then we should press ahead and get Zmapp to solve the situation at hand whilst working hard to develop an alternative in the background.

proffemi:

I get your point, I really do. However, research doesn't work like that. I am confident that there is no lab in Nigeria which can conduct research on Ebola. Also, such labs, where they exist, operate on very strictly-defined mandates such that they wouldn't undertake to test Nano for us. Were we to eventually get around the red tape of identifying a willing lab, the entire process would take, I think, up to a year.

This is longer than even the timeline that GSK is giving for the testing/availability of their vaccine.

What the Lagos government/FG should do is: start a conversation with Zmapp to see whether infusion of funds can move their testing along further, or ramp up production capacity faster*

*all of this assumes that Zmapp does cure Ebola in humans. We hope so, but the jury is still out.


I teach a science related course in a federal university

In life it is adviceable to apply several solutions to a problem

Your just stated one which is "Lagos should help fund the research to fast track it"

Bushdoc state his which is " Focus on preventive method"

My own is " Test run it in any lab within or outside Nigeria. Also try herbs extracts existing drugs and study creatures that are immune to this virus."

So we are all driving towards the solution from different angles

Thanks for answering my question on your relation with science and I want to believe you understand my stand.

phreakabit:
Well thought up question. . . Although my 5 year old cousin would have done exceptionally better. I am not sure how vast your knowledge on intricate things like these are, but if you have been song some deep study "research" I am sure you'd have come across Nano silver and foodgrade hydrogen. Peroxides in a handful of ocassions. Do some research before trying to be smart. BTW, the US citizens who got Zmapp consented to its use.

ok you and your 5year old cousin can do me a favour and provide online links with results of animal or clinical trials of nanosilver. Provide links showing the location of the manufacturer of nanosilver or the researchers, the laboratory where these trials have been performed and any previous literature from the researchers. If you think its ok for ebola patients to just drink any medication because it has been labelled as an ebola treatment, why can't they drink the concoction of the babalawo in ogun state.

phreakabit:
My point exactly! So what should be done? Just watch in sadness or "try" something?

Waiting on the Zmapp or other experimentally proven drugs with good a safety ratings , and an healthy success rate percentages is the best way to go . . . .

ElFenomeno1:

Thank you.

Some idi.oots on this thread think you can just grab a monkey on the street and lace it with EVD and then test the bloody nanosilver on it the next day!

Awon oponu radarada

Lol. Someone actually said Lagos should have tested the drug before making this statement. The FG out to have begun the processes by now though.

proffemi:
No, we shouldn't. We should evaluate all available options that show some promise, and find out whether there is anyone that we can nudge along faster (we should be ready to spend money on this; research costs money). We are not equipped to go into Ebola research, and we should not even dabble there. It takes a decade of planning and funding to grow competence in a research area, so lets not start something we can't finish.

In the interim, we manage the patients using best practices that have been developed and refined since the first Ebola outbreak. That way, we expect ~40% of them to survive, drug or no drug.



What next is: as I said above, we are in no position to conduct Ebola research. Dabbling into it may result in devastating long-term consequences.



This is an ethical issue with deep implications. If an Ebola victim decides to try swallow an acid, should we stop him? I think in this case, the view of doctors is that the cannot ethically allow their patients to try an unscientific cure. When lives are at risk, doctors often turn a blind eye (allowing a patient to drink holy water etc) however, I believe that the ethics of their profession cannot allow them do this *while the patient in under their care*. However, in the case of a pathogen such as Ebola, I think the risk of mutation compels a doctor from allowing a cure unless there is some evidence (no matter how tenuous) of efficacy.


The premise to the second part of your question is that Nano does cure Ebola in humans. There is nothing that indicates that at the present.


If most of Ur answers to theae queation are yes the I don't see whe y dey shhouldnt be treated with nano silver.

Nice answers, you seem like someone knowledgeable in these things. Whats Ur view on the use if foodgrade hydrogen peroxide? Its know that pathogens can't survive in oxygen, and hydrogen peroxide poses an extra oxygen molecule. I think it might not cure but will surely help.

publicenemy:

What i meant is,someone close to death has nothing to lose...whatever gives them hope of survival is worth it,even if its got side effect.

So what do you think?

still morally wrong thou.

lets see how it plays out

ElFenomeno1:

If Zmapp has been approved as a near solution, then we should press ahead and get Zmapp to solve the situation at hand whilst working hard to develop an alternative in the background.

Zmapp doses have been exhausted TKM-Ebola is not tested and might be the one to cause the problems if u ask me.
So far there has been nothing else.

JuanDeDios:
Lol. Someone actually said Lagos should have tested the drug before making this statement. The FG out to have begun the processes by now though.

LOL..I dont know how they were meant to have tested it!

We should have begun long ago since the epidemic broke out ....... Deeply embarrassing, we have been caught napping big time!

Now that shi...t has hit the fan, we are running helter skelter asking for anything.... it shouldnt be like that!

phreakabit: Nice answers, you seem like someone knowledgeable in these things. Whats Ur view on the use if foodgrade hydrogen peroxide? Its know that pathogens can't survive in oxygen, and hydrogen peroxide poses an extra oxygen molecule. I think it might not cure but will surely help.

No, not knowledgeable on the specifics o!

I am an engineer, so I only have a general understanding of the issues involved. You got me cracking when I saw hydrogen peroxide...you go expose my ignorance o! (sorry for smiling about a serious topic)

phreakabit:
Zmapp doses are exhausted TKM-Ebola is not tested and might be the one to cause the problems if u ask me.
So far there has been nothing else.

Does anyone know how long it will take to develop more doses of Zmapp?

What about the talks on working with the DNAs of survivors?! I actually think there may be a solution there........

ElFenomeno1: Does anyone know how long it will take to develop more doses of Zmapp?

God bless you. This is a question I've been asking myself, and one that I hope the FG has tried to ask the manufacturers. That, and the other important question: "how much?"*

*of course, we are still hoping the darn thing actually works...

proffemi:

No, not knowledgeable on the specifics o!

I am an engineer, so I only have a general understanding of the issues involved. You got me cracking when I saw hydrogen peroxide...you go expose my ignorance o! (sorry for smiling about a serious topic)

Rflmao. . . I am an engineer myself just do some extensive reading on anything science. Its OK BTW. We live and learn.

ZMAPP has finished...it will take months to produce more.

EasternLeopard: So we are all driving towards the solution from different angles.Thanks for answering my question on your relation with science and I want to believe you understand my stand.

Yes, I agree with you. Ideally, the FG should have groups exploring/executing each of the three approaches. They are not mutually exclusive.

ElFenomeno1:

Does anyone know how long it will take to develop more doses of Zmapp?

What about the talks on working with the DNAs of survivors?! I actually think there may be a solution there........

Zmapp say it take months to grow the modified tobacco
That harbours the antibodies taken from humans. So looks like a long time.

Yeah I posted a link about the first trial of the blood transfusion treatment. Problem is current zmapp survivors are in the US. Only hope is the Sierra Leon survivors.

http://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/S18.full?sid=b139b993-6946-4bf7-a999-9fc837193bda

bossladyMo: ZMAPP has finished...it will take months to produce more.

How many months?

phreakabit:

Zmapp say it take months to grow the modified tobacco
That harbours the antibodies taken from humans. So looks like a long time.

Yeah I posted a link about the first trial of the blood transfusion treatment. Problem is current zmapp survivors are in the US.

http://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/S18.full?sid=b139b993-6946-4bf7-a999-9fc837193bda

So technically we could be looking at anything between 5, or 6 to 12 months ....... #GOBE #LONG

Nano silver has been in use since Roman times and it has no side effects.

So why can't the mor.ons in Lagos give the infected folks they left for dead in isolated units, rather than watch them die?

In as much as it isn't going to cure anything, it isn't going to cause any harm, but if it can reduce the symptoms and keep them alive for a few more days - give them the damn drug. It's a cheap drug that anyone can buy anywhere.

Stop playing useless politics for fvck sake. I'm sure they are giving the people antibiotics now for whatever they might be going through, so what is the difference between that and nano silver? Just don't overuse it, that is it.

And that naija virologist didn't invent no gaddamn nano silver. It is a tested anti- bacteria drug you can buy anywhere.

shymexx:
And that naija virologist didn't invent no gaddamn nano silver. It is a tested anti- bacteria drug you can buy anywhere.

I thought i was the only one on that front....

Laying claim to what has been around since time immemorial.

Smh

Symphony007: Some people mumu no be small!! What concerns APC and PDP in matters of health? Or is that how partisan your brains have gotten? Zmapp has been tested on both monkeys and humans and has proved to work with side effects. Now you want the government to give this new drug that has neither been tested or has no success track record on nigerians? Do you know the side effects, you people are advocating nigerian ebola patients be used as lab rat, and when they are and there is catastrophic after effects even worse than ebola, who will help us? Who? We don't even know the name or company of this fictitious "nigerian scientist in diaspora" that sent the drug. Since we're so desperate as will try anything, why don't we get all our ebola patients into a lab and start injecting them with every chemical compound we can find. Who knows, one might work.

Thanks for this piece. At least theres's a smart head in here.
Nano-Silver had existed for several years with use in varying industries for different purposes. It was NOT discovered by a Nigerian scientist, rather it was suggested that it could be useful looking at its cream of current adaptive functions.
No record of previous tests conducted on man or animals. It would be most hasty to make guinea pigs out of our poor compatriots. It's unthinkable. We must temper exuberance with caution.

shymexx: Nano silver has been in use since Roman times and it has no side effects.

So why can't the mor.ons in Lagos give the infected folks they left for dead in isolated units, rather than watch them die?

Silver has been in use...but mostly as a topical agent. (on the skin).

In as much as it isn't going to cure anything, it isn't going to cause any harm, but if it can reduce the symptoms and keep them alive for a few more days - give them the damn drug. It's a cheap drug that anyone can buy anywhere.

It may not. Sadly, there isn't any evidence that nano silver has any antiviral activity as regards ebola. It may have some anti-bacterial effect (that is why it is used as a topical antiseptic).Then there is the risk of silver poisoning....since we do not know the concentration at which it would safely kill the virus (or if it would) and not cause silver poisoning.

Stop playing useless politics for fvck sake. I'm sure they are giving the people antibiotics now for whatever they might be going through, so what is the difference between that and nano silver? Just don't overuse it, that is it.

The problem is we do not know the safe concentration. (That is a part of the reason why drugs undergo invitro, animal and phase 1-3 testing...to know...among other things, the dose at which it can safely have a therapeutic effect...and not harm the patient).

And that naija virologist didn't invent no gaddamn nano silver. It is a tested anti- bacteria drug you can buy anywhere.

True.

The article Nanosilver particles in medical applications: synthesis, performance, and toxicity will give you more information about the scientific uses of nano silver. Sadly....no evidence for anti-ebola activity...and no studies showing that nanosilver prolongs the life of ebola patients.

Tundeiab: you are too small for me to exchange words with.

get lost..

oluwasegunfummi: kilo nse eleyi, ko oshi danu kuro ni waju mi jo, we yorubas are the problem of nigeria, yet we always feel vauntly supercilious, just check out how fashola is playing blind politics with our lives, I know oju opolo tinubu is behind this........eko o ni baje oooo

The fact that you typed in Yoruba language doesn't mean you are a Yoruba boy. Otherwise, how could you referred to your race including your father and mother as sadists and problem of this country because a governor refuses to use patients as lab rats.