Analyzing falsified data

ChrisOD:

We can argue about the population until tomorrow. So let each one of us hold on to their belief. As as far as the law of give and take follows, there is no way we Igbos will migrate out of Igboland to the extent that we do and still have a huge pop in SE that can be said to be larger than those of other groups who migrate far less.

As for your other point, Yes, I agree with you that Igbos cannot contribute returns from their private investments to the FG who have invested less in Igboland than elsewhere. Still, wealthy Igbos in SE should pay commensurate taxes and levies so that such revenues can be used to boost SE's IGR.

And u don't just go abt paying taxes just to raise igr for the heck of it, if the politicians won't use it for anything, then we will keep doing the pocketing.
Tell me what Theodore orji did with the taxes he collected from Aba? If Nigerian politicians keep looting these tnz, what's the essence of being happy that ur region has a highest igr while at the same time it has the biggest debt profile?
As for population, the Chinese r everywhere, china is still densely populated. the presence of many northerners in the south has not prevented the northerners from thinking north is more populated than south.
How many impt cities are in many states of NE that will make them think SE is the least populated, Do we know how many sprawling towns we have? plus they migrate from the north too.
The thing is if u are successful in other places , ur migration becomes obvious unlike those that migrate to the east for eg to beg.

ChrisOD:

It's a cycle. More investing (rich) people, more revenue, more productivity, more income. That is why urban areas with high population (pop) are more attractive than rural areas with less pop. You do not attract the pop if there are no investments. And investments won't come of there is no pop to sustain it. SE seems to be in a bind on this one. But as the OP suggested, Igbos can kill two birds with one stone: move back to SE in large numbers and do so with your investments.

You could not have put it better. Well done.

The stemming down.of emigration wave, should be their priority, rather than looking for things that are not possible :

1. Political power in other people's region
2. State of residency to be the basis of citizenship.

They are only assisting others to build their economies, regions and even countries. Yes, they have supposedly real and unreal mansions in their villages, but those are not contributing anything to the macro and micro- economics of the region, as a whole.

superstar1:

You could not have put it better. Well done.

The stemming down.of emigration wave, should be their priority, rather than looking for things that are not possible :

1. Political power in other people's region
2. State of residency to be the basis of citizenship.

They are only assisting others to build their economies, regions and even countries. Yes, they have supposedly real and unreal mansions in their villages, but those are not contributing anything to the macro and micro- economics of the region, as a whole.

Erroneous.
There is a diff btw contributing to the FG and contributing to urself .
The SE is economically buoyant as a lot of activities go there but the revenue from them dont go to the FG.
If u mention ur LGA of origin, it can't match the greatness of nnewi or aba or onitsha for eg, but all the money from nnewi go back to the private individuals that own the investments.
Its not by chance anambra n abia are two of 5states with the largest cash flow or anambra having the 3rd highest conc of banks and bank deposits.
Get your facts right first.

EasternLeopard:



I believe we can stealthly finance our war or re-finance our economy in non-western nations because of their uncontrollable desire to see their economy grow.

The colored portion is the crux of the matter. Igbos always willing and ready to grow other people's economy at the expense of theirs.

Anyways, I understand your point. Ndewo.

ketoprofen:

Erroneous.
There is a diff btw contributing to the FG and contributing to urself .
The SE is economically buoyant as a lot of activities go there but the revenue from them dont go to the FG.
If u mention ur LGA of origin, it can't match the greatness of nnewi or aba or onitsha for eg, but all the money from nnewi go back to the private individuals that own the investments.
Its not by chance anambra n abia are two of 5states with the largest cash flow or anambra having the 3rd highest conc of banks and bank deposits.
Get your facts right first.

How does money in the pocket of individuals, translates into the development of.the whole region?
How has the money in their pockets improve the GDP of the region or stop emigration of able bodied men out of the region?

Penny wise, pound foolish.

ketoprofen:

Erroneous.
There is a diff btw contributing to the FG and contributing to urself .
The SE is economically buoyant as a lot of activities go there but the revenue from them dont go to the FG.
If u mention ur LGA of origin, it can't match the greatness of nnewi or aba or onitsha for eg, but all the money from nnewi go back to the private individuals that own the investments.
Its not by chance anambra n abia are two of 5states with the largest cash flow or anambra having the 3rd highest conc of banks and bank deposits.
Get your facts right first.

You are right, but those individual, unaccounted for, oftentimes officially unspoken, family wealth cannot put you on the global map. How can you do simple economic stuff like measuring GDP, per capita and others similar stuff with such love for the informal sector? This is 21st century.

superstar1:

How does money in the pocket of individuals, translates into the development of.the whole region?
How has the money in their pockets improve the GDP of the region or stop emigration of able bodied men out of the region?

Penny wise, pound foolish.

Thank you. I do not know who you are, but whether you are Igbo or not, you have spoken well. Thanks.

ChrisOD:

The colored portion is the crux of the matter. Igbos always willing and ready to grow other people's economy at the expense of theirs.

Anyways, I understand your point. Ndewo.

Thanks for understanding my point

Now that shecow is on rampagne in the North East, it will be wise we Igbos quadruple our investments outside Nigeria to help us withstand the shock of war that might come.

ketoprofen:
And u don't just go abt paying taxes just to raise igr for the heck of it, if the politicians won't use it for anything, then we will keep doing the pocketing.
Tell me what Theodore orji did with the taxes he collected from Aba? If Nigerian politicians keep looting these tnz, what's the essence of being happy that ur region has a highest igr while at the same time it has the biggest debt profile?
As for population, the Chinese r everywhere, china is still densely populated. the presence of many northerners in the south has not prevented the northerners from thinking north is more populated than south.
How many impt cities are in many states of NE that will make them think SE is the least populated, Do we know how many sprawling towns we have? plus they migrate from the north too.
The thing is if u are successful in other places , ur migration becomes obvious unlike those that migrate to the east for eg to beg.

Again you are right. Raising taxes and levies on the wealthy to generate IGR should be accompanied by stricter enforcement of anti-corruption measures.

Still on pop, the SE (especially cities; most villages are quite empty due to migration) is thickly populated, meaning high density in a small space. High density is not always = to high overall population

ketoprofen:

Erroneous.
There is a diff btw contributing to the FG and contributing to urself .
The SE is economically buoyant as a lot of activities go there but the revenue from them dont go to the FG.
If u mention ur LGA of origin, it can't match the greatness of nnewi or aba or onitsha for eg, but all the money from nnewi go back to the private individuals that own the investments.
Its not by chance anambra n abia are two of 5states with the largest cash flow or anambra having the 3rd highest conc of banks and bank deposits.
Get your facts right first.

Gbam

And when the profits go back into the pockets of private individuals, they re-invest it into the economy.

But when the money is collected in form of IGR(internal generated revenue) it is atimes looted by corrupt government officials.

EasternLeopard:

Gbam

And when the profits go back into the pockets of private individuals, they re-invest it into the economy.

But when the money is collected in form of IGR(internal generated revenue) it is atimes looted by corrupt government officials.

But there is also looting and corruption among other Nigerian zones, yet they manage to invest more in their zones than elsewhere.

ChrisOD:

You are right, but those individual, unaccounted for, oftentimes officially unspoken, family wealth cannot put you on the global map. How can you do simple economic stuff like measuring GDP, per capita and others similar stuff with such love for the informal sector? This is 21st century.

Global map? Which ones? what put Lagos on the global map is FG investments esp those ports n other investment which attracted service companies and created a cycle.
I was only trying to educate that super mofo, that SE is not as dry just cos it is not contributing much to the FG .
As for GDP generating tnz in the formal sector , these are tnz done by the govt which they have failed to do for se .
Like I said, u don't do them for the heck of it, the politicians shd be made to swear they will use them.
Imagine states with high gdps having the highest debt profile, does it make sense?
Let's not be carried away by these tnz when there are better tnz to worry abt

ChrisOD:

But there is also looting and corruption among other Nigerian zones, yet they manage to invest more in their zones than elsewhere.

That's what we shd be talking abt. Investing more in the SE to serve us better and not to raise revenue for FG that doesn't care.

ketoprofen:

Global map? Which ones? what put Lagos on the global map is FG investments esp those ports n other investment which attracted service companies and created a cycle.
I was only trying to educate that super mofo, that SE is not as dry just cos it is not contributing much to the FG .
As for GDP generating tnz in the formal sector , these are tnz done by the govt which they have failed to do for se .
Like I said, u don't do them for the heck of it, the politicians shd be made to swear they will use them.
Imagine states with high gdps having the highest debt profile, does it make sense?
Let's not be carried away by these tnz when there are better tnz to worry abt

Other than the seaport, can you really mention one FG investment in Lagos that is lacking elsewhere in Nigeria? Even, seaports are elsewhere in Nigeria too. Yet, Lagos is by miles different from any other cities in Nigeria. Yes, I agree that being a former national capital put it on the global spotlight. But it has not been the capital for several years now.

Huge population and huge private investments, not government investments, make Lagos what it is today. A good portion of those private investments are owned by us, Igbos. A good % of that huge population of Lagos are us, Igbos.

ketoprofen:

That's what we shd be talking abt. Investing more in the SE to serve us better and not to raise revenue for FG that doesn't care.

Gbam

Re-investing some part of our profits is more important than raising revenue for FG who will use it to develop other regions

ChrisOD:

Other than the seaport, can you really mention one FG investment in Lagos that is lacking elsewhere in Nigeria? Even, seaports are elsewhere in Nigeria too. Yet, Lagos is by miles different from any other city in Nigeria. Yes, I agree that being a former national capital put it on the global spotlight. But it has not been the capital for several years now.

Huge population and huge private investments, not government investments, make Lagos what it is today. A good portion of those private investments are owned by us, Igbos. A good % of that huge population of Lagos are us, Igbos.

Your last paragraph is true

The question we should ask ourselves is

1) What can we do to attract population and investments back home

EasternLeopard:

Gbam

Re-investing some part of our profits is more important than raising revenue for FG who will use it to develop other regions

You still need govt institutions to direct things in Igboland. The high rate of ''private-ness'' in the SE is the reason why most public institutions in SE are not very competitive. Individual Igbos are super competitive, but collectively as STATES, we are not as competitive as we should be. True or false?

EasternLeopard:

Your last paragraph is true

The question we should ask ourselves is

1) What can we do to attract population and investments back home

Elect the right leaders. Anambra seems to be getting it right now.

Abia is presently hopeless.

superstar1:

How does money in the pocket of individuals, translates into the development of.the whole region?
How has the money in their pockets improve the GDP of the region or stop emigration of able bodied men out of the region?

Penny wise, pound foolish.

If those individuals re-invest the money into the economy it will grow

superstar1:

How does money in the pocket of individuals, translates into the development of.the whole region?
How has the money in their pockets improve the GDP of the region or stop emigration of able bodied men out of the region?

Penny wise, pound foolish.

The southeast states need to find ways to improve IGR. There are no two ways around this fact. Somebody has to pay for the needed public infrastructures. Their current level of allocation is not going to cut it.

ChrisOD:

Again you are right. Raising taxes and levies on the wealthy to generate IGR should be accompanied by stricter enforcement of anti-corruption measures.

Still on pop, the SE (especially cities; most villages are quite empty due to migration) is thickly populated, meaning high density in a small space. High density is not always = to high overall population

Oga, is there a way u travel for 4 hrs in the east and u won't see a settlement, have u been to the north, that's the case in many states.
Forget abt the few like jos, kano, Kaduna, fct, north is just landmass.
European countries are smaller on size than Mali, Niger republic but they have more density.
If Nigerians were wiser, they would have known that population density is more impt than anything.
They cook up figures for u and u believed them because u see ur ppl outside the east.
Go to their non capital cities too and see for themselves.
Anambra alone has populations in non capital cities, ekwulobia, Nnewi, Onitsha, obosi,; Which non capital cities in Adamawa, taraba, bsuchi, gombe, yobe, has that type of population?
Add the fact that these northerners migrate a lot too

ChrisOD:

You still need govt institutions to direct things in Igboland. The high rate of ''private-ness'' in the SE is the reason why most public institutions in SE are not very competitive. Individual Igbos are super competitive, but collectively as STATES, we are not as competitive as we should be. True or false?

Pls use examples to explain what you mean by SE states are not competitive

EasternLeopard:

Pls use examples to explain what you mean by SE states are not competitive

IGR
GDP
University rankings (I know this is arguable)
GOVERNMENT-DRIVEN INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENTS
HOSPITALS

ChrisOD:

Other than the seaport, can you really mention one FG investment in Lagos that is lacking elsewhere in Nigeria? Even, seaports are elsewhere in Nigeria too. Yet, Lagos is by miles different from any other cities in Nigeria. Yes, I agree that being a former national capital put it on the global spotlight. But it has not been the capital for several years now.

Huge population and huge private investments, not government investments, make Lagos what it is today. A good portion of those private investments are owned by us, Igbos. A good % of that huge population of Lagos are us, Igbos.

its like u don't know the economic and long term implications of siting the only 3 functional ports in one state and rendering the others useless.
What of the policies that put the embassies, high commissions and corporate headquarters of multinationals there?
Leave matter for Mathias.
Just open a river port in Onitsha or revitalize the ones in onne for regular importation , u go see how the thing go happen.

ketoprofen:

Global map? Which ones? what put Lagos on the global map is FG investments esp those ports n other investment which attracted service companies and created a cycle.
I was only trying to educate that super mofo, that SE is not as dry just cos it is not contributing much to the FG .
As for GDP generating tnz in the formal sector , these are tnz done by the govt which they have failed to do for se .
Like I said, u don't do them for the heck of it, the politicians shd be made to swear they will use them.
Imagine states with high gdps having the highest debt profile, does it make sense?
Let's not be carried away by these tnz when there are better tnz to worry abt

See this mengistu.

What is the debt profile of US and Europe?

This is the logic behind.public sector indebtedness. Pick up the indebtedness now to build infrastructure that will lead to more socio-economic activities and it will translate into higher IGR for govt and more amenities will be provided.

The infrastructure built by indebtedness will still be built by the ones that did not borrow in the nearest future, but at an higher cost. The cost would have increased because of inflation.

I repeat, penny wise pound foolish.

superstar1:

See this mengistu.

What is the debt profile of US and Europe?

This is the logic behind.public sector indebtedness. Pick up the indebtedness now to build infrastructure that will lead to more socio-economic activities and it will translate into higher IGR for govt and more amenities will be provided.

The infrastructure built by indebtedness will still be built by the ones that did not borrow in the nearest future, but at an higher cost. The cost would have increased because of inflation.

I repeat, penny wise pound foolish.

Permit me to digress, but in Nigeria, IGR and GDP don't mean much because half of the money is stolen by politicians. It's just on paper.

ChrisOD:

IGR
GDP
University rankings (I know this is arguable)
GOVERNMENT-DRIVEN INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENTS
HOSPITALS

Webometrics univ ranking? Guy, must u import every single thing to argue this?
What abt CBN stats, Common entrance stats., poverty rates that favours SE more?
The GDP and igr have been trashed severally, osun was placed ahead of anambra n abia and we have seen how osun, as economically sleeping as it is became more productive than ekwulobia or neni.
Biko, argue in line.

EasternLeopard:

If those individuals re-invest the money into the economy it will grow

Bros it can never grow. Individuals will not provide the enabling environment and infrastructure only govt can provide. No investor will ever think of investing without any noticeable infrastructure in.place. That will translate to lesser IGR for the govt and the wave of emigration of your able bodied men to other regions that have such infrastructure, will continue and they will keep developing the economy of those regions for them by the recipient economic ventures and the accrued taxes they will pay.

The governments in the southeast must aggressively collect taxes. This is a missing item in most southeast states. Imagine Eboniyi leading the SE in IGR. The federal government is not going to be the solution for this states, they must shoulder a greater part of this burden too.

ketoprofen:

its like u don't know the economic and long term implications of siting the only 3 functional ports in one state and rendering the others useless.
What of the policies that put the embassies, high commissions and corporate headquarters of multinationals there?
Leave matter for Mathias.
Just open a river port in Onitsha or revitalize the ones in onne for regular importation , u go see how the thing go happen.

There are functional ports in Onne ( I worked in Onne for 5 years) and Port Harcourt. And even if they are non functional now, why is that so? GEJ has been president for how many years now and he cannot make the ports in his zone functional?

A River Port will do only as much as the feeding sea port allows. Onitsha River port will be fed by either Warri or other ports in ND. If those are not doing well, then Onitsha River Port would not do well too. I do not want to blame God for not giving core Igboland a seaport, but if we had ours thing would be way different.

ChrisOD:

IGR
GDP
University rankings (I know this is arguable)
GOVERNMENT-DRIVEN INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENTS
HOSPITALS

IGR and GDP are not more important than poverty decline

To me

Instead of focusing on IGR, I will suggest we support community development groups and support their infrastructural programs. EG let's assume, a community needs a hospital that will cost 20 million naira. If that community can raise 25% of that amount which is 5million, the govt can just add 15million to help them build the project after its feasibility study is right.

This will reduce the access of corrupt officials to more money

This will expose whether a community is ready to develop

This will expose whether the govt is sincere about development