Mavrick2012: what
you "never admitted that god was the creator?" i.e you believe(like the atheist)that god IS NOT THE CREATOR?
Also "some things are not to be known by man"?dear,this kind of mind-set is what makes me detest religion.this type of thinking is what delayed the scientific development we enjoying today.chief,EVERTHING,i repeat, EVERYTHING MUST be known.lol

so God is the creator. Which of the gods?

RayMcBlue:

You're worse than a typical Christian. You seem more delusional.

we are all confused

kolawaxxy:

we are all confused

Lolz. This dude...

Not me. I'm very much in control of all my mental equilibrium.

kolawaxxy:

do you really think miracles only happen among christians?

Apparently, or wasn't I explicit enough?

kolawaxxy:
don't you think it would have been fair and just if he had appeared in the sky while on earth since the bible said he would appear in the sky on the last day? However by God, I was also referring to the creator.

More delusions.

kolawaxxy:
hmm

Cat got your tongue? No more delusional postulations to throw my way?

RayMcBlue:

Lolz. This dude...

Not me. I'm very much in control of all my mental equilibrium.

what's your stance?

A) Do you believe the theory that it just "exploded" out of nowhere

B) it is to complex to create itself whereas the creator who created the complex is allowed to

kolawaxxy:

what's your stance?

A) Do you believe the theory that it just "exploded" out of nowhere

B) it is to complex to create itself whereas the creator who created the complex is allowed to

While it is true that science does not yet know everything there is to know about the universe, scientists will eventually figure it out. When they do, what they will find is that nature created the universe, not an imaginary being.

RayMcBlue:

Apparently, or wasn't I explicit enough?



More delusions.




Cat got your tongue? No more delusional postulations to throw my way?

I already admitted that I am confused , but I'm in no way deusional. Only a fool will keep arguing in the face of evidence

kolawaxxy:

I already admitted that I am confused , but I'm in no way deusional. Only a fool will keep arguing in the face of evidence

Lolz. Oh My Word!

What evidence?? Please do tell.

RayMcBlue:

While it is true that science does not yet know everything there is to know about the universe, scientists will eventually figure it out. When they do, what they will
find is that nature created the universe, not an imaginary being.

so nature also made itself. Lol

kolawaxxy:

so nature also made itself. Lol

Like I said earlier, science hasn't figure it all out yet. But anything at this point is logically better than the belief that an imaginary being created everything.

RayMcBlue:

Lolz. Oh My Word!

What evidence?? Please do tell.

...of the big bang or the creator.

Thank providence for Pascal's wager. I'll have nothing to lose by beliving in the creator. Ignorance is bliss.

kolawaxxy:

...of the big bang or the creator.

Thank providence for Pascal's wager. I'll have nothing to lose by beliving in the creator. Ignorance is bliss.

Good for you. *I'm Out*

RayMcBlue:

Like I said earlier, science hasn't figure it all out yet. But anything at this point is logically better than the belief that an imaginary being created everything.

It's not logically better bro. It's only rational to believe in the creator since he has promised eternally torment those who disbelieve him .

Besides, what do I stand to lose by not believing in the big bang? Nothing

RayMcBlue:

Good for you. *I'm Out*

better. Don't confuse me the more

Mavrick2012: @Rikoduosennin,first,the concept of "energy cannot be created nor destroyed" is out-date,so pls dont use it to defend "god".secondly,just like every religous dude,you reject scentific proofs where it goes contrary to ur blv but accept it hook-line-and-sinker where it "explains your "god".finally,i blv u blv in the arguement of "perfect design",pls why are you finding it a difficult task blvin that this "perfect designer" should also have a designer?

Science is not always wrong, but science is far from accurate. Some scientist falsify records and data to get funding. They are not free from bias reporting either (after all they are human), hence when science runs contrary to God's word we reject it eg the theory of Evolution, but we are not ignorant of science after all, it is humans way of explaining the Universe.

Well, Jehovah God does not require an intelligent designer he is the Alpha and Omega. He existed before the beginning of time as we know it, infact, he has been always existing- that concept eludes man because everything has an origin according to man's knowledge.

RayMcBlue:

Many Christians look at our universe, and especially life on planet Earth, and come to the conclusion that what we see is "irreducible complexity." In the Christian view, the complexity of our universe and life on earth requires an intelligent creator to bring everything into existence.

Christians believe that a creator is essential. Scientists believe that the idea of a "creator" is pure mythology, and that the complexity arose through natural processes like evolution. Who is right?

You can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic. Here are the two options:

- The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.
- An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.

The advantage of the first option is that it is self-contained. The complexity arose spontaneously. No other explanation is required.

The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.

In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.

Complexity occur spontaneous? But that is not what we see in the Universe!

Even scientist believe there was a "beginning"- The big bang, So What Caused it, What existed prior to the big bang? Is a burst of Energy enough to explain all the Harmony, Complexity and finely tuned laws in the universe? Why such random event hasn't cause similar Universe to exist, hence we actually having a Multiverse?

In option (I) you said, "no explanation needed". Hmm. That school of thought try to answer HOW the universe and everything in it came to be, not WHY did the universe and everything in it come to be! If man is a creation of spontaneous event, then there is no meaning in life. Why do we exist?

Creation by an intelligent designer makes sense when you consider everything in the universe.

1) The universe is expanding in a particular rate/order- FINELY TUNED.

2) Fundamental physical forces (eg gravity, Electromagnetism, Strong nuclear force and Weak nuclear forces) are FINELY TUNED. A little higher and a little lower spells disaster.

Remove God from existence and we will have a universe/existence which depends on combination of coincidences. The universe says otherwise: Earth's water nitrogen and oxygen cycle, Earth's electromagnetic shield/ gravitational force, Earth's moon/ size and distance of the moon, Earths rotation/ polar tilt, Earth's sun/ distance from the sun, Earth's orbit path (keeps the earth at approximately the same distance from the sun or year round), Earth's Wierd shape compared with other planets,stars and planetary bodies, Earth's type of Sun, our solar systems location in the milky way galaxy are all proof that an intelligent design not some random/spontaneous even is necessary for complex life on earth. The coincidences is just too numerous.

Someone always meet you at the same place, at the same time, every day of the year and you call that random/coincidence, really? Is that what we call science? The Expression "No God" or "big bang create the universe" is BIAS SCIENCE.

RikoduoSennin:

Complexity occur spontaneous? But that is not what we see in the Universe!

Even scientist believe there was a "beginning"- The big bang, So What Caused it, What existed prior to the big bang? Is a burst of Energy enough to explain all the Harmony, Complexity and finely tuned laws in the universe? Why such random event hasn't cause similar Universe to exist, hence we actually having a Multiverse?

In option (I) you said, "no explanation needed". Hmm. That school of thought try to answer HOW the universe and everything in it came to be, not WHY did the universe and everything in it come to be! If man is a creation of spontaneous event, then there is no meaning in life. Why do we exist?

Creation by an intelligent designer makes sense when you consider everything in the universe.

1) The universe is expanding in a particular rate/order- FINELY TUNED.

2) Fundamental physical forces (eg gravity, Electromagnetism, Strong nuclear force and Weak nuclear forces) are FINELY TUNED. A little higher and a little lower spells disaster.

Remove God from existence and we will have a universe/existence which depends on combination of coincidences. The universe says otherwise: Earth's water nitrogen and oxygen cycle, Earth's electromagnetic shield/ gravitational force, Earth's moon/ size and distance of the moon, Earths rotation/ polar tilt, Earth's sun/ distance from the sun, Earth's orbit path (keeps the earth at approximately the same distance from the sun or year round), Earth's Wierd shape compared with other planets,stars and planetary bodies, Earth's type of Sun, our solar systems location in the milky way galaxy are all proof that an intelligent design not some random/spontaneous even is necessary for complex life on earth. The coincidences is just too numerous.

Someone always meet you at the same place, at the same time, every day of the year and you call that random/coincidence, really? Is that what we call science? The Expression "No God" or "big bang create the universe" is BIAS SCIENCE.

If you look at the definition of God, you can see that he is defined as the "originator and ruler of the universe". Why does the universe need an originator - a creator? Because, according to religious logic, the universe cannot exist unless it has a creator. A believer might say:

"Look at how amazing and complex life is. Look at how intricate the human eye is, and the human brain. There is no way that the human eye and the human brain arose spontaneously from the mud. In the same way that a watch cannot appear without a watchmaker, there is no way that all this complexity arose without an intelligent creator."

However, that statement immediately constructs a contradiction, because we must then wonder who created God. For a believer the answer to that is simple: "God is the one thing that does not need a creator. God is timeless and has always existed, blah blah blah." How can it be that the everything MUST have a creator, while God must NOT? The contradiction in the definition of God is palpable.

If you consult the dictionary, here is the first definition of God that you will find:

"A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions."

Most believers would agree with this definition because they share a remarkably clear and consistent view of God. Yes, there are thousands of minor quibbles about religion. Believers express those quibbles in dozens of denominations -- Presbyterians (Anglicans), Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists and such. But at the heart of it all, the belief in God aligns on a set of core ideas that everyone accepts.

What if you were to simply think about what it would mean if there were a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe? Is it possible for such a being to exist?

This text I dug up from the internet had some pretty interesting things to say about that:

"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?

In other words, if you sit and think about who God is supposed to be, you realize that such a being is
impossible. Ridiculous, in fact.

If God exists as an all-loving, all knowing and all powerful parent - a "father in heaven", you would expect God to deliver food to you. In fact, the child should not have to pray. Normal parents provide food to their children without their children having to beg for it. Yet, strangely, on planet Earth today we find tens of millions of people dying of starvation every year.

Another way to approach the impossibility of God is to think about the concept of omniscience. If God is omniscient, then it means that he knows every single thing that happens in the universe, both now and infinitely into the future. Do you have free will in such a universe?

Clearly not. God knows everything that will happen to you. Therefore, the instant you were created, God knows whether you are going to heaven or hell. To create someone knowing that that person will be damned to hell for eternity is the epitome of evil.

As soon as your think about the concept of a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient being, you realize the impossibility of the concept. That impossibility is yet another way to see that God is imaginary.

@Rikoduosennin,monin sir,
you said "some sceintist falsify records and data to get funds"?please give two examples so that i will not refere you to go check the defination of "reckless-statement.
sir,please dont loss touch of the fact that scientist has NEVER claimed to be omni-science nor omnipotent.
What is sceince:sceince simply means the aplication of common sence in resolving natural intricacies.
Yes,scientist are very much prone to errors.am sure you understand the meaning of hypothesis,emperical etc.you see why the onus falls on you to keep proving omni-science even when its apparent you(or ur god)are far behind this sceintist.
Now,back to the topic,if it makes sense to you that nobody created god,then,big-bang,evolution etc should make greater sense.
finally,if i tell you your omni-perferct bible is full of errors(like sceintist,lol)i know you will shout NO!
sir please explain these following passages for me;(2kings 16:2,20 and 2kings 18:1-2) also (2chroni 21:20 and 2chroni 22:1-2).pls am wait

Mavrick2012: @Rikoduosennin,monin sir,
you said "some sceintist falsify records and data to get funds"?please give two examples so that i will not refere you to go check the defination of "reckless-statement.

Thank you very much for your courtesy, very remarkable! Examples, you ask? Well, if you are in touch with any published scientist, be it a Professor in any university, Just ask him about the length some scientist go to get funding for their research.

Mavrick2012:
sir,please dont loss touch of the fact that scientist has NEVER claimed to be omni-science nor omnipotent.

True, and I did not say they were.

Mavrick2012:
What is sceince:sceince simply means the aplication of common sence in resolving natural intricacies.
Yes,scientist are very much prone to errors.am sure you understand the meaning of hypothesis,emperical etc.you see why the onus falls on you to keep proving omni-science even when its apparent you(or ur god)are far behind this sceintist.

Now,back to the topic,if it makes sense to you that nobody created god,then,big-bang,evolution etc should make greater sense.

That is just it, big bang still haven't make sense to me. What caused it (big bang) and WHY?

Mavrick2012:
finally,if i tell you your omni-perferct bible is full of errors(like sceintist,lol)i know you will shout NO!
sir please explain these following passages for me;(2kings 16:2,20 and 2kings 18:1-2) also (2chroni 21:20 and 2chroni 22:1-2).pls am wait

Who said anything about the Bible being omin-perfect? The rest is not related to this thread. There exist a thread for that.

RayMcBlue:

If you look at the definition of God, you can see that he is defined as the "originator and ruler of the universe". Why does the universe need an originator - a creator? Because, according to religious logic, the universe cannot exist unless it has a creator. A believer might say:

"Look at how amazing and complex life is. Look at how intricate the human eye is, and the human brain. There is no way that the human eye and the human brain arose spontaneously from the mud. In the same way that a watch cannot appear without a watchmaker, there is no way that all this complexity arose without an intelligent creator."

However, that statement immediately constructs a contradiction, because we must then wonder who created God. For a believer the answer to that is simple: "God is the one thing that does not need a creator. God is timeless and has always existed, blah blah blah." How can it be that the everything MUST have a creator, while God must NOT? The contradiction in the definition of God is palpable.

Would he be called "Almighty God" if he had a creator himself. Note: that is a title not a name, before you ask- there is a difference.

RayMcBlue:
If you consult the dictionary, here is the first definition of God that you will find:

"A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions."

Most believers would agree with this definition because they share a remarkably clear and consistent view of God. Yes, there are thousands of minor quibbles about religion. Believers express those quibbles in dozens of denominations -- Presbyterians (Anglicans), Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Episcopalians, Methodists and such. But at the heart of it all, the belief in God aligns on a set of core ideas that everyone accepts.

Dictionary is not an authority on religious matter, please Read about God and his attributes/ qualities from the bible itself rather than clinging to hearsay (Then you will really understand God's power and How he "choose" not to know every detail of everything going on in the world)

RayMcBlue:
What if you were to simply think about what it would mean if there were a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe? Is it possible for such a being to exist?

This text I dug up from the internet had some pretty interesting things to say about that:

"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?

In other words, if you sit and think about who God is supposed to be, you realize that such a being is
impossible. Ridiculous, in fact.

If God exists as an all-loving, all knowing and all powerful parent - a "father in heaven", you would expect God to deliver food to you. In fact, the child should not have to pray. Normal parents provide food to their children without their children having to beg for it. Yet, strangely, on planet Earth today we find tens of millions of people dying of starvation every year.

Another way to approach the impossibility of God is to think about the concept of omniscience. If God is omniscient, then it means that he knows every single thing that happens in the universe, both now and infinitely into the future. Do you have free will in such a universe?

Clearly not. God knows everything that will happen to you. Therefore, the instant you were created, God knows whether you are going to heaven or hell. To create someone knowing that that person will be damned to hell for eternity is the epitome of evil.

As soon as your think about the concept of a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient being, you realize the impossibility of the concept. That impossibility is yet another way to see that God is imaginary.

You have not understood the ways of God, the issues at stake and why he choose to allow "evil" for a short while. Note: God is not responsible of the bad things we see today (Man and Satan is to blame) and things happening in the world does not disprove his existence.

RikoduoSennin:
Dictionary is not an authority on religious matter, please Read about God and his attributes/ qualities from the bible itself rather than clinging to hearsay (Then you will really understand God's power and How he "choose" not to know every detail of everything going on in the world)

If you are reading a book written by the all powerful, all knowing, all loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight?

Instead, opening the Bible inevitably creates a feeling of dumbfoundment. Have you ever noticed that? Instead of brilliance, much of the Bible contains nonsense. You can open the Bible to almost any page and find nonsense instead of wisdom.

Why, in other words, is the Bible so useless? Why does the author of the Bible, who is supposed to be God, who is supposed to be all-knowing, know so little? Why is the knowledge of the author limited to the knowledge of the primitive men who wrote the book? If you think about what you are reading in the Bible in the context of an all knowing God who supposedly wrote it, none of it makes any sense. But if you think about the Bible as being a book written by primitive men like you would find in the remote regions of Afghanistan today, it makes complete sense.

The Bible was written by primitive men, many of who were obviously insane.

RikoduoSennin:
You have not understood the ways of God, the issues at stake and why he choose to allow "evil" for a short while. Note: God is not responsible of the bad things we see today (Man and Satan is to blame) and things happening in the world does not disprove his existence.

Lolz. Here we go again. Okay, let's ponder "God's plan":

"God's plan" is the way you Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents. For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.

If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child. The mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not?

What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in Africa through abortion. If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.

Think about Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: Hitler is part of God's Plan.

A Christian will say:

"God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.

If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you.

Do you believe that murderers and rapists should be rewarded? Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust? Do you believe that God is the direct cause of every abortion on this planet? Do you believe that you have no choice in your spouse or the number of children you have? Probably not. But that is what you are saying when you state that Hitler or cancer or anything else is part of "God's plan."

If you think about it as an intelligent person, you will realize that the statement "It is part of God's plan" is one of those meaningless palliatives. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. That lack of sense shows us how imaginary God is.

RikoduoSennin:

Thank you very much for your courtesy, very remarkable! Examples, you ask? Well, if you are in touch with any published scientist, be it a Professor in any university, Just ask him about the length some scientist go to get funding for their research.



True, and I did not say they were.



That is just it, big bang still haven't make sense to me. What caused it (big bang) and WHY?



Who said anything about the Bible being omin-perfect? The rest is not related to this thread. There exist a thread for that.

"who said anything about the bible being omni-perfect"?you dont blv in the......sorry i thought you a christian.sincerely am so sorry.sir,pls which of the religion/faith do you profess?

RikoduoSennin:

[s]Science is not always wrong, but science is far from accurate. Some scientist falsify records and data to get funding[/s]. They are not free from bias reporting either (after all they are human), hence when science runs contrary to God's word we reject it eg the theory of Evolution, but we are not ignorant of science after all, it is humans way of explaining the Universe.

What the hell is this?? I don't like to swear, but the above is practically the logic of someone out of touch with reality.

What the theory of evolution says is that every living thing on this planet has evolved through a completely natural process. Every species that we see today is derived from simple, single-cell organisms over the course of hundreds of millions of years. In other words, there was no supernatural creation process for humans as described in the Bible's book of Genesis.

Where did the first cell come from? Many believers will argue that God magically created the first living cell. This, of course, is silly. The scientific principle that describes the origin of life is called "abiogenesis" . In the same way that there is no supernatural being involved in evolution, there is no supernatural being involved in abiogenesis. Both the creation of life and the evolution of species are completely natural processes.

RikoduoSennin:
Well, Jehovah God does not require an intelligent designer he is the Alpha and Omega. He existed before the beginning of time as we know it, infact, he has been always existing- that concept eludes man because everything has an origin according to man's knowledge.

Sheer delusions. There is no "supreme being" in heaven who reached down to create life on Earth or human beings. Nor is that being answering prayers . There is no soul. There is no everlasting life. Science tells us all of these things with complete clarity. God is imaginary.

RayMcBlue:
What the hell is this?? I don't like to swear, but the above is practically the logic of someone out of touch with reality.

What the theory of evolution says is that every living thing on this planet has evolved through a completely natural process. Every species that we see today is derived from simple, single-cell organisms over the course of hundreds of millions of years. In other words, there was no supernatural creation process for humans as described in the Bible's book of Genesis.

Where did the first cell come from? Many believers will argue that God magically created the first living cell. This, of course, is silly. The scientific principle that describes the origin of life is called "abiogenesis" . In the same way that there is no supernatural being involved in evolution, there is no supernatural being involved in abiogenesis. Both the creation of life and the evolution of species are completely natural processes.


Sheer delusions. There is no "supreme being" in heaven who reached down to create life on Earth or human beings. Nor is that being answering prayers . There is no soul. There is no everlasting life. Science tells us all of these things with complete clarity. God is imaginary.

Humans have never lived up to hundreds of millions of years, so no one has witnessed evolution from start to finish, yet Many believe what they have not seen just because some seemingly smart people say it is so- is that not blind faith?

To Each one with his/ her believes!

Mavrick2012: "who said anything about the bible being omni-perfect"?you dont blv in the......sorry i thought you a christian.sincerely am so sorry.sir,pls which of the religion/faith do you profess?

Don't get me wrong, I believe in the bible, I am a christian. 2 Timothy 3:16,17 mentioned the things the bible is perfect for. Ofcourse there are somethings in the bible that are hard to understand, but that doesn't mean they are wrong upon further analysis.

RikoduoSennin:



Humans have never lived up to hundreds of millions of years, so no one has witnessed evolution from start to finish, yet Many believe what they have not seen just because some seemingly smart people say it is so- is that not blind faith?

To Each one with his/ her believes!

Wow! This man is something else. Goes to show me you knew nothing about science, at all.

Science has nothing to do with faith. Science examines, calculates, separates and postulates. Faith (the bedrock of Christian belief) meanwhile cut corners and goes straight to postulations.

See the difference? Science is cold hard logic, Faith is borne out of sentiments, thus, nonsensical. Another proof that God is imaginary.

RayMcBlue:
If you are reading a book[b] written by[/b] the all powerful, all knowing, all loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight?

Your first statement above is wrong. Look carefully at the bolded section. This thread is not about the bible all about God's qualities rather its about his existence. We can discuss the other matter in another thread please. It seems you are just venting all your here.

RayMcBlue
Instead, opening the Bible inevitably creates a feeling of dumbfoundment. Have you ever noticed that? Instead of brilliance, much of the Bible contains nonsense. You can open the Bible to almost any page and find nonsense instead of wisdom.

Why, in other words, is the Bible so useless? Why does the author of the Bible, who is supposed to be God, who is supposed to be all-knowing, know so little? Why is the knowledge of the author limited to the knowledge of the primitive men who wrote the book? If you think about what you are reading in the Bible in the context of an all knowing God who supposedly wrote it, none of it makes any sense. But if you think about the Bible as being a book written by primitive men like you would find in the remote regions of Afghanistan today, it makes complete sense.

The Bible was written by primitive men[b:
, many of who were obviously insane.

Your last state here contradict your first statement. God did not write the bible his a Fact, he neither used his hands nor a pen/paper to write it.

RayMcBlue
Lolz. Here we go again. Okay, let's ponder "God's plan":

"God's plan" is the way you Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents. For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.

[b:
If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child. The mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not?

What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in Africa through abortion. If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.

Think about Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: Hitler is part of God's Plan.

A Christian will say:

"God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.

If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you.

Do you believe that murderers and rapists should be rewarded? Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust? Do you believe that God is the direct cause of every abortion on this planet? Do you believe that you have no choice in your spouse or the number of children you have? Probably not. But that is what you are saying when you state that Hitler or cancer or anything else is part of "God's plan."

If you think about it as an intelligent person, you will realize that the statement "It is part of God's plan" is one of those meaningless palliatives. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. That lack of sense shows us how imaginary God is.

On the bolded section: The concept of God's plan you are used to or try to portray here is wrong, I hold no such believe.

Even though it is not part of this thread, I will endorse you a little (but I will not discuss it in lenght here).

Man has free will to do whatever he wants, abortion , kill, etc Many diseases and Natural disaster occurs as a result of Man mismanaging his environment and resources. Somethings time amd change (being at the wrong place, at the wrong time lead to bad things), these are not God's faults nor are his plan for Man.

Blaming God for every bad thing that happen his wrong. God's did not design Man like robots who must follow every program/instruction. He is not responsible for what we do with out life, only we are responsible for that.

Let's leave it at that. If you say God does not exist, What then caused our existence and why- please try to convince me using those FACTs you were talking about. That is what the thread is all about not bashing of the bible and God qualities. This not the way debate are carried out. In debates, you use what your opponents say( their own words) not what you have concocted by yourself from hearsay- that is all you have been saying in this thread.

RikoduoSennin:

Your first statement above is wrong. Look carefully at the bolded section. This thread is not about the bible all about God's qualities rather its about his existence. We can discuss the other matter in another thread please. It seems you are just venting all your here.

Au contrare. It's valid. A direct response to your egregious deflection. You pointed me to the bible to make your point, or did you not?

RikoduoSennin:
Your last state here contradict your first statement. God did not write the bible his a Fact, he neither used his hands nor a pen/paper to write it.

Couldn't agree more. The bible was written by primitive men, many of whom were insane.
,

RikoduoSennin:
On the bolded section: The concept of God's plan you are used to or try to portray here is wrong, I hold no such believe.

Even though it is not part of this thread, I will endorse you a little (but I will not discuss it in lenght here).

Man has free will to do whatever he wants, abortion , kill, etc Many diseases and Natural disaster occurs as a result of Man mismanaging his environment and resources. Somethings time amd change (being at the wrong place, at the wrong time lead to bad things), these are not God's faults nor are his plan for Man.

Blaming God for every bad thing that happen his wrong. God's did not design Man like robots who must follow every program/instruction. He is not responsible for what we do with out life, only we are responsible for that.

^^^And the rationalizing and contradictions continues...Lolz.

If you look in the Bible, there are an amazing number of people that God wants his followers to murder. For example, in Exodus 35:2 God lays down this commandment:

"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

In other words, if we actually listened to what God says, we would need to kill at least half of the people in Africa tomorrow. After all, Isaiah 40:8 says, "The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever." The word of the Lord tells us to kill half of the world's population. No free will in sight.

The believers completely ignore these parts of the Bible. That is because they know that the verses are insane.

RikoduoSennin:
Let's leave it at that. If you say God does not exist, What then caused our existence and why- please try to convince me using those FACTs you were talking about.

So you would rather believe that that a supernatural being created every thing than actually challenge your intellect by thinking outside the box? Yeah, that makes absolute sense.

The universe is a vast place. The universe contains gazillions of galaxies and each galaxy is home to billions and of stars. Each star has it's own private solar system. Contemplate earth - out of all the gazillions of stars and planets in the universe, is earth the only planetary body that contained life? That's how you think outside the box. Something your belief don't give you the luxury to do. The sad thing: You're living in mental slavery/bondage but completely unaware. Like they say, "Ignorance is bliss."

RikoduoSennin:
That is what the thread is all about not bashing of the bible and God qualities. This not the way debate are carried out. In debates, you use what your opponents say( their own words) not what you have concocted by yourself from hearsay- that is all you have been saying in this thread.

Your flimsy arguments did nothing but equipped me with the necessary armoury to come at you. You postulates, I counter with gusto. You pointed me to your bible, I showed you how unreliable it is. You pointed me to your God qualities, I showed you just how mythical he is. What I've been doing is basically poke holes in the "swiss cheese" you disguised as strong points. You call it hearsay, I call it cold hard logic.

RikoduoSennin:

Don't get me wrong, I believe in the bible, I am a christian. 2 Timothy 3:16,17 mentioned the things the bible is perfect for. Ofcourse there are somethings in the bible that are hard to understand, but that doesn't mean they are wrong upon further analysis.

gmonin sir.....seriously,your moniker comes to me like "ruky(rukewe)useini,but then,this are incompatible nomenclatures.lol.
Right,one thing is CERTAIN,as a christian,you definatly agree the holy bible is omni-perfect.
Those passages i referd you to are not "hard to understand",even my nusery 3 son will understand it,they only display ERROR.
Why did i bring that passage?because you were insinuating that since science/scientist are not free from error the big-bang could equally not be error free.Honestly,its a splendid logic by you.Now,drawing from your logic,if ANY part of the holy bible can contain error then the idea of "God doesnot have a creator"could equaly be an error.thats why you should explain those passages

RayMcBlue:

Wow! This man is something else. Goes to show me you knew nothing about science, at all.

Above: He is acting high and mighty- very typphical.

RayMcBlue:
Science has nothing to do with faith. Science examines, calculates, separates and postulates. Faith (the bedrock of Christian belief) meanwhile cut corners and goes straight to postulations.

See the difference? Science is cold hard logic, Faith is borne out of sentiments, thus, nonsensical. Another proof that God is imaginary.

Oxford Dictionary definition of the word "Faith"- to have complete trust or confidence. Other definitions of faith relates to religion.

Now tell me, do you have complete confidence/trust in Science, Is that no longer "faith" because science is not viewed as a religion?

Open mind, will do a lot of good in this matter. Your mind has already been made up, Faith relates or specific to only religion. ***sigh***

Mavrick2012:
Right,one thing is CERTAIN,as a christian,you definatly agree the holy bible is omni-perfect.

@bolded section: your words not mine. I don't remember using such words to describe the bible neither do I see any relevance to the thread topic.

Mavrick2012:
Those passages i referd you to are not "hard to understand",even my nusery 3 son will understand it,they only display ERROR.
Why did i bring that passage?because you were insinuating that since science/scientist are not free from error the big-bang could equally not be error free.Honestly,its a splendid logic by you.Now,drawing from your logic,if ANY part of the holy bible can contain error then the idea of "God doesnot have a creator"could equaly be an error.

Do you think the existence of God/a Creator depends solely on if the bible contains error or not?

Mavrick2012:
thats why you should explain those passages

Send me a link to a thread- containing to supposed error scriptures and I will gladly do that. Threads bordering on the bible's credibility best fits. God having or not having a creator, God existing or not existing does not depend "solely" on what the bible says. So let's leave the bible for another thread.

RayMcBlue:
Au contrare. It's valid. A direct response to your egregious deflection. You pointed me to the bible to make your point, or did you not?

I don't remember quoting a bible scripture to you. Please do refresh my memory by quote me from the post I addressed to you specifically.

RayMcBlue:
Couldn't agree more. The bible was written by primitive men, many of whom were insane.

Your words and opinion not mine. Primitive and senile eh? Yet it is widely circulated,translated, read more than any book written by your so called intellectuals and Sane minds combined.

RayMcBlue:
If you look in the Bible, there are an amazing number of people that God wants his followers to murder. For example, in Exodus 35:2 God lays down this commandment:

"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."

In other words, if we actually listened to what God says, we would need to kill at least half of the people in Africa tomorrow. After all, Isaiah 40:8 says, "The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever." The word of the Lord tells us to kill half of the world's population. No free will in sight.

Do not speak about what you do not understand, its embarrassing. For example, Sabbath law was not given to all nation, inhabited earth. It was a law given to one particular nation. After Jesus came there was no need for that law. Every christian understands that.

I don't see how it relates to this thread. So I won't say further

RayMcBlue:
The believers completely ignore these parts of the Bible. That is because they know that the verses are insane.

Insane? You are very wrong my friend. Christians ignore it because they are under the law of christ not the law of decree. You are not a christian and you don't want to be, stop saying what you do not know about.

RayMcBlue:
So you would rather believe that that a supernatural being created every thing than actually challenge your intellect by thinking outside the box? Yeah, that makes absolute sense.

The universe is a vast place. The universe contains gazillions of galaxies and each galaxy is home to billions and of stars. Each star has it's own private solar system. Contemplate earth - out of all the gazillions of stars and planets in the universe, is earth the only planetary body that contained life? That's how you think outside the box. Something your belief don't give you the luxury to do. The sad thing: You're living in mental slavery/bondage but completely unaware. Like they say, "Ignorance is bliss."

You are still running away from my questions. Look at those questions carefully, I am trying to engage my intellect as you said "think outside the box". What caused the big bang and Why was it caused. Give me a satisfactory answer and I just may convert.

RayMcBlue:
Your flimsy arguments did nothing but equipped me with the necessary armoury to come at you. You postulates, I counter with gusto. You pointed me to your bible, I showed you how unreliable it is. You pointed me to your God qualities, I showed you just how mythical he is. What I've been doing is basically poke holes in the "swiss cheese" you disguised as strong points. You call it hearsay, I call it cold hard logic.

Are you listening to yourself. I did no such things you are accusing me of.

It was you who postulated, point to the bible and God's qualities and attack your own preconceived ideas,and quote me out of context. I have been trying to keep this thread on topic since, but no more.

The thread says, Who created God! Sub questions should include, Does God exists and how? Everything else is for another thread.

Goodbye!!!