shdemidemi:

What does anything above mean? You just threw words about that lacked any substance.

There is a Spirit in the body of a man. The Spirit gives the body life while the soul which is the realm of the mind is the window or door to the Spirit. These 3 constitute the whole being.

Job 32:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
John 6:63New King James Version (NKJV)
63 It is the spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.

Many times in the OT when the bible said "Heart" of man, it was referring to the spirit and not the organ with 4 compartments for pumping blood. Paul called him "Inner man". This Inner man was what Satan sought to corrupt with sin when he tempted Adam and Eve and as a result of their fall every other man that was formed from such union was born with a "Corrupted or defiled spirit". When the bible says God created man in his own image- it means man was created a Spirit being- just like God.

Genesis 6:5New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Then the Lord[a] saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

This heart as used here means spirit same with:

Proverbs 4:23New King James Version (NKJV)
23 Keep your heart with all diligence,
For out of it spring the issues of life.

When the bible says God breathed into Adam in Genesis 2:7 that was God putting a Spirit in the body. The spirit is also referred to as the breath of life or the breath of the almighty. Just like Job said in the verse I used above and here:

Job 33:4New King James Version (NKJV)
4 The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Like Jesus said in John 6:63, the spirit of a man is his life- if the spirit leaves the body the man dies.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Now we know that not all spirits return to God as some go to Hell to be with their father- the devil, while those who were born-again go to heaven to be with the lord. The one's that go to the devil are those whose spirits were the same- unregenerate spirits because they disbelieved the gospel about the son of God. They are the one's Paul referred to in Ephesians 2 and in other places in scripture.

. . .who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience

The evil spirit that works in the son's of disobedience can only work by intermingling with their spirits and making it evil. This is what the bible describes as sinful nature because our flesh (members) only yield and are given life by the spirit within. That's why Paul once described himself as carnal and saying he was subject to sin. He was subject to sin because his sinful spirit always yielded to sin thereby causing his flesh to respond likewise (because the spirit controls the flesh).

When someone becomes born again he receives a new spirit that is righteous and holy. Paul calls him the new man. This new man was created by the presence of the Holy Spirit because God relates with us through our spirit-being.

Proverbs 20:27New International Version (NIV)
27 The human spirit is[a] the lamp of the Lord that sheds light on one’s inmost being.

When Paul says a man in christ is a new creation he is referring to the spirit. So when he calls any one the old man he is obviously referring to the unregenerate spirit that is sinful. It is our spirit that is born-again not the flesh. God's spirit intermingles with our spirit and not our "soul". The soul is only renewed by the word.

Romans 8:16New International Version (NIV)
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

Now this is important in explaining what Paul meant in Galatians 2 when he referred to "I" or in Romans as a whole.

Galatians 2:20-21New International Version (NIV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God

Who is the I that has been crucified with Christ? His [Paul] spirit. He said the life I now live in the flesh/body which means the spirit in his body now controls his body to obey christ as against what he was doing when he was not in Christ. Also notice he said Christ now lives in me? This can be interlinked with the statement that the Holy Spirit lives in our mortal body because we know the Physical Christ is currently in heaven and we know it is with our spirit's that we make contact with the Holy Spirit. Jesus said so:

John 4:24 - God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit

So when Jesus also said to the Pharisees "Ye are of your father the devil" he could say that because he knew their spirit's were unregenerate and as such yielded to satan but Jesus didn't have such a spirit because his creation constituted of his father- God and his mother Mary. Medical science lets us know that a baby gets his blood from his father (explaining Jesus' divine blood) and ofcourse his spirit from God as well making him righteous BUT he is to get his flesh from his mother and Mary was very much human. That's why Jesus' body was fully human- the life of his body (spirit and blood were gotten from his dad) but his flesh was gotten from his mum.

This is the level of importance to God:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Spirit first, soul next and body last because the real man is the Spirit. If the flesh was the man- then there would be no grace because what must keep us sinless would be the fact that we never sinned and being born-again would mean we received a new body which is not the case. What we are told to do when we get born again is to subject the flesh to make it obey God and this will be possible because we have a righteous spirit within (Ephesians 4:22-24) that can obey God. Who does the subduing? The spirit of course.

Now we can understand Paul in Romans 6, 7 & 8. For example,

Romans 6:6 says :For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin

Our old self that was crucified with christ is our old-unregenerate spirit that is why Paul said now that we have a new spirit we can subject the BODY ruled by sin so that we would no longer be slaves to the urges of sin that used to affect it so easily.

Again in Romans 7:5-7: 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

What does he mean by when we were in the realm of the flesh? He meant when our sinful spirit used to obey the lusts of sin by making the flesh do what sin wanted. But now we have died to sin. How did we die? When our sinful spirit was crucified with christ. Now the new man (the righteous spirit) is now able to obey God's spirit thereby causing our flesh to do what God wants us to do.

Again in Romans 8:8-9 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness.

Here he says those who have sinful spirits cannot please God because they sin? No. But because the Holy Spirit is not within- meaning they don't have a new man that is righteous. As a result of this they will always make their members (flesh) to disobey God. But the born-again man is capable of pleasing God because he has the Holy Spirit within and can then yield his flesh to obey God seeing that his spirit is righteous.

In conclusion, Jesus(while on earth) had this righteous spirit, he had precious blood, he received the Holy Spirit and he lived a perfectly sinless life even though he was in this body- the same one sinners had. This is the uniqueness of Jesus.

shdemidemi:

[s]Jesus the Christ, our Lord and Savior, will be the One Who will be the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords of the world to come, in this inhabited earth that will be made again like the Garden of Eden. We also know He is higher than the angels, even though for the work of the cross, He became a little lower than the angels for a short while.

There was only one way that He could remove death from the human experience. What was it? He had to die. He HAD to die. He had to overcome death with death. Life is in the blood. So what had to happen? He had to shed it. And so it is His shed blood that became the very solution for redemption.[/s]

Philippians 2:5-8

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6. Who, (Christ Jesus) being in the form of God, (He never stopped being God) thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But (as God, He) made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Let me show you why you are just replying off point without doing much study. In Philipians 2:7 the word used there was "kenois" which means to completely empty, make void, delete everything within etc.

So what did Jesus completely empty himself of? The bible said reputation translated power, privileges, rights, deity etc. and then he took upon the form of a servant. He emptied himself of his divinity and FUNCTIONED only as a man. That's what Paul is saying there.

Try another spin.

shdemidemi:

http://biblehub.com/greek/4561.htm

[4561 /sárks ("flesh" is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed, flesh (what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in (Gal 2:20).]

Keep showing how incorrigible you are. At least, you have left the nonsense of heavenly body albeit you couldn't apologize for goofing and lying without studying. You came here to claim "sarx" referred to spirit and soul and all the lexicons clearly stated that spirit's and soul's are excluded.

Another major goof you didn't see you made in the post above is that the interpreter said "sinless HUMAN body" and not "sinless HEAVENLY body"

Abeg, tell us how else human body can be sinless except it means the human body NEVER SINNED- which is exactly what yours truly had been saying since which is: That Jesus had the same human body/flesh that other men had but he never sinned while in it.

So the above supports my stance and you should take your own advice and learn a whole lot of things!

shdemidemi: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hMx7BAAAQBAJ&pg=PT2220&lpg=PT2220&dq=sarx+as+used+in+john+1:14+vines&source=bl&ots=NJHLTThHOF&sig=QLg26_8Ok8m93eQ1T5Ja8SF2bH0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zbEpVN-oIdHmaNW3gfgB&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sarx%20as%20used%20in%20john%201%3A14%20vines&f=false

get busy bro... if these links don't help, nothing can.

Did you read this?

shdemidemi: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hMx7BAAAQBAJ&pg=PT2220&lpg=PT2220&dq=sarx+as+used+in+john+1:14+vines&source=bl&ots=NJHLTThHOF&sig=QLg26_8Ok8m93eQ1T5Ja8SF2bH0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zbEpVN-oIdHmaNW3gfgB&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sarx%20as%20used%20in%20john%201%3A14%20vines&f=false

get busy bro... if these links don't help, nothing can.

Anyone who can view this should please help me explain the following to the poster above:

1)
synecdoche
[si-nek-duh-kee]
noun,
1.a figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for a part, the special for the general or the general for the special

This is what you said:

The greek word for flesh is 'sarx' as used in John 1:14
'sarx' means the totality of all that is essential to manhood i.e spirit, soul and body.

But vine said sarx means flesh which by synecdoche, could be applied to mean totality of all that is essential to manhood. Can you see the difference?

2) That vine defined the same word as used in Romans 8:3 in referring to the same flesh or [Totality of Jesus' humanity] to refer to- the weaker element in HUMAN nature.

Now, I said the word Sarx means flesh,carnal etc. and I gave you links to that effect. You said it means totality of all that is essential to manhood i.e spirit, soul and body and you gave me vine's exposition but Vine said the word means flesh which BY SYNECDOCHE could be applied to what you said. Tell me who lied?

Also, he said nothing about a HEAVENLY body so I believe we can put that to rest as another heresy that God's word didn't buy.

Now I understand the sort of person you are.. I will reply all the you wrote when I have time.

shdemidemi: Now I understand the sort of person you are.. I will refute all the you wrote when I have time.

If it is on man being a spirit, please feel free but I won't reply on that because those scriptures are very clear and need no interpretations. As per the Philippians 2 or the definition of Sarx please be my guest. Maybe you would chip in how you arrived at Jesus' heavenly body while on earth too.

mbaemeka:

So many empty words with nothing said. I have not said here or anywhere else that a child born today isn't as much a sinner as a grown man. The reason the child is a sinner is not because of his FLESH but because of his SPIRIT. Do you get it now?

A sinner is a SINFUL SPIRIT that is housed in a mortal body/flesh while a righteous man is a RIGHTEOUS SPIRIT living in a mortal flesh/body.

So when Paul was a sinner he let his SINFUL SPIRIT work sins in his mortal body but when he became a righteous man he let his RIGHTEOUS SPIRIT subdue his mortal flesh.

Being able to subdue the mortal flesh from day one to year 33, possess a righteous SPIRIT and have DIVINE, spotless and sinless blood made JESUS the PERFECT SACRIFICE.

If Jesus flesh was any different or "born perfect" then he was already due to die at birth (which is a contradiction because perfect flesh cannot die) and Paul said that is a lie. Jesus had to be subjected to the same temptations that other men have and pass it and he did even till death. This consummated his perfection as a man then he was now eligible to go to the cross for mankind. That's why when the time was near for his death he told his disciples that Satan had nothing IN HIM.

How was satan supposed to put it in him? The same way he put it in Adam. In Jesus' case the temptations were harder for if he as much as insulted the people who asked for his death he would have tainted his SPIRIT.

Hope you get it now.

Just to let you know I've seen this your post to which your first sentence actually belongs.
Others have made some remarks on your lack of basic understanding of Biblical doctrines. I will get back to it some other time and show you why you still need the basics of Christianity.

trustman:
Just to let you know I've seen this your post to which your first sentence actually belongs.
Others have made some remarks on your lack of basic understanding of Biblical doctrines. I will get back to it some other time and show you why you still need the basics of Christianity.

lol, you guys crack me up that's why I kept replying. But since I have noticed your style is just to keep repeating the same chaff I will do well to let you deride yourself.

Anyone who has eyes to read and a heart to learn will see those who made statements without biblical backings and kept changing positions with each scripture they were shown. I rested my case when you and your brothers didn't know who a man is according to the bible and what was funny was how you all endorsed different posts that contradicted everything you had once said or even stood for on this thread. That was actually the funniest.

mbaemeka:

Let me show you why you are just replying off point without doing much study. In Philipians 2:7 the word used there was "kenois" which means to completely empty, make void, delete everything within etc.

So what did Jesus completely empty himself of? The bible said reputation translated power, privileges, rights, deity etc. and then he took upon the form of a servant. He emptied himself of his divinity and FUNCTIONED only as a man. That's what Paul is saying there.

Try another spin.

MBA..

I was too tired to respond to your attempt to turn scriptures on its head last night. Well, I will start by asking you to check your definition of 'kenoo' (empty) again in its connection with context.

Did Jesus empty Himself of Godhood?

Did he cease to be what he essentially and eternally was?


Don't just be about your net point. Take time to look in to the questions and answer appropriately.

The bible says 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood'- how then can the flesh of Jesus be corrupt like that of man if the blood is good enough to pay the price of sin? Think Mba!

mbaemeka:

There is a Spirit in the body of a man. The Spirit gives the body life while the soul which is the realm of the mind is the window or door to the Spirit. These 3 constitute the whole being.

What happened when Adam fell!

God had said- Gen 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[a] of it you shall surely die.”


Can you explain how Adam died or if he actually died the day he ate the fruit. If he did die, what part of him died?

mbaemeka:

lol, you guys crack me up that's why I kept replying. But since I have noticed your style is just to keep repeating the same chaff I will do well to let you deride yourself.

Anyone who has eyes to read and a heart to learn will see those who made statements without biblical backings and kept changing positions with each scripture they were shown. I rested my case when you and your brothers didn't know who a man is according to the bible and what was funny was how you all endorsed different posts that contradicted everything you had once said or even stood for on this thread. That was actually the funniest.

You've shown yourself as again as a very itchy person. I only posted that to tell you I will reply to your post. Instead of waiting for my reply you immediately respond. You always feel you must respond to EVERY post whether your response is relevant or not.

mbaemeka:

Job 32:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

What exactly is spirit? Every man has a spirit, even animals have one (though they have no soul). Do your research on what the spirit is and draw cogent understanding from this verse.

it is ruah in hebrew and pneuma in greek.

mbaemeka:
John 6:63New King James Version (NKJV)
63 It is the spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.

Like I said about your first quote, you need to know what the spirit means. Spirit as used here shows us its significance. We all have a spirit in us. The question is if the spirit is from God or the spirit of the world.

mbaemeka:
Many times in the OT when the bible said "Heart" of man, it was referring to the spirit and not the organ with 4 compartments for pumping blood. Paul called him "Inner man". This Inner man was what Satan sought to corrupt with sin when he tempted Adam and Eve and as a result of their fall every other man that was formed from such union was born with a "Corrupted or defiled spirit". When the bible says God created man in his own image- it means man was created a Spirit being- just like God.

Genesis 6:5New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Then the Lord[a] saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

I agree with you. Was the spirit/the heart of man made by God to be evil? No. After man botched it, he lost the heart of God, he could never please God. Man needed to revive the dead spirit that died at the fall for any chance of pleasing God, hence why we needed Jesus to die so we might be brought back to life.

The inner man is not the wicked man. He is the real you and I that died when Adam sinned. That's why we can say an unbeliever is dead, though he is breathing, literally, like Adam was. The day an unbeliever comes to Christ, his spirit (connected to His creator) is brought back to life as far as God is concerned.

Every child born into this world except for jesus is born dead on arrival (spiritually). The baby becomes alive spiritually the day he/she accepts Christ. The sinful spirit/old man/sin nature that operates in that child before he/she comes to Christ is what is put to death at that point of spiritual new birth.

The bible makes us understand we would not even feel anything when this change happens but what did the bile say we do-

Romans 6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We take the word for what it says by faith. It says 'reckon' yourselves- meaning 'consider' yourselves dead to that adamic old nature or the wicked heart as you called it.

shdemidemi:
MBA..
I was too tired to respond to your attempt to turn scriptures on its head last night. Well, I will start by asking you to check your definition of 'kenoo' (empty) again in its connection with context.
Did Jesus empty Himself of Godhood?
Did he cease to be what he essentially and eternally was?
Don't just be about your net point. Take time to look in to the questions and answer appropriately.
The bible says 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood'- how then can the flesh of Jesus be corrupt like that of man if the blood is good enough to pay the price of sin? Think Mba!

Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. That's what I have been saying. He did that so that he could be a man 100 percent. If he had any trace of his power left in him then Satan would conclude that it was the reason he passed the tests and temptations. That's why Jesus' life on earth was a mystery. It was because the eternal word of God became a man and lived and suffered like one.

I asked you some questions and the answers to them would have helped you understand my point. For example, Jesus had to grow in wisdom, he had to pray daily, he needed the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, He died etc. All these could only have been possible if he was a man for if he was God the Immortality in him would have prevented him from being captured let alone dying. The inherent power he had would have been enough to work the miracles and he would not have needed to pray- after all, who would God be praying to?

As per his blood being the life of his physical body I agree but recall that an immortal body would not have blood. That's why Jesus must have of necessity had a human/mortal body to function on earth.

I have never said Jesus is not God. All I have maintained is that while he was on earth he was functioning as a man.

shdemidemi:

What happened when Adam fell!

God had said- Gen 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[a] of it you shall surely die.”


Can you explain how Adam died or if he actually died the day he ate the fruit. If he did die, what part of him died?

2 things happened to Adam. His Spirit was separated from God (spiritual death) and it became tainted with sin. His physical body too began to decay and die (that is it became corruptible) and certain that he was eventually going to leave his body.

mbaemeka:

2 things happened to Adam. His Spirit was separated from God (spiritual death) and it became tainted with sin. His physical body too began to decay and die (that is it became corruptible) and certain that he was eventually going to leave his body.

DEAD....

How can a dead spirit be tainted again?

Adam took up a new spirit, a new heart, a new nature that fits perfectly into the evil world he was pushed to. Do you get?

shdemidemi:

What exactly is spirit? Every man has a spirit, even animals have one (though they have no soul). Do your research on what the spirit is and draw cogent understanding from this verse.

it is ruah in hebrew and pneuma in greek.




Like I said about your first quote, you need to know what the spirit means. Spirit as used here shows us its significance. We all have a spirit in us. The question is if the spirit is from God or the spirit of the world.

Animals don't have a Spirit per se. The bible says only Men have one. Also I have researched on the two words you mentioned- Ruah and Pneuma and they both mean breath, wind etc.

After Adam no man born into this world God a 'direct' Spirit from God. We got it by the law of reproduction that God set in motion through Adam. So the type of spirit a man would have depends on the spirit his parents would have. Remember Jesus said spirits give birth to spirits and flesh gives birth to flesh? So if a man is a SPIRIT BEING that has a soul and live in a body he would give birth to someone with the same attributes.

In Jesus case his father was God (directly) but his mum was mary. So Jesus got his Spirit and 'blood' from his dad but his body from his mum- that's why Jesus was born righteous. The rest of us that were born before Jesus had a corruptible Spirit because of our parents so we would have gone to hell straight up. But God gave the law to help us and those who had it got some nominal salvation till Jesus came.

Now that Jesus has come and is alive forevermore if two Godly parents (Christians) give birth to a baby that baby is righteous because his Spirit would be righteous. Why? Because his Parents have a righteous SPIRIT (the new man).

shdemidemi:


DEAD....

How can a dead spirit be tainted again?

Adam took up a new spirit, a new heart, a new nature that fits perfectly into the evil world he was pushed to. Do you get?

Dead spirit to God but alive to the devil. Just the same when we are born again we are dead to the devil and alive to God.

So when Adam was alive to the devil his Spirit was tainted with sin. That's why when God looked upon the earth he saw that Men's spirits had become continually evil and so he wiped them out. Satan was doing this in a bid to corrupt Jesus' Spirit. It had always been Satan's plan: to get sin INTO Jesus' Spirit.

mbaemeka:

Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. That's what I have been saying. He did that so that he could be a man 100 percent. If he had any trace of his power left in him then Satan would conclude that it was the reason he passed the tests and temptations. That's why Jesus' life on earth was a mystery. It was because the eternal word of God became a man and lived and suffered like one.

Jesus was God and He was man while He walked on the surface of the earth. He constantly calls himself the son. It isn't as if God had a wife to give birth to Jesus. He called Himself the son because He is the image of God that people like you and I saw.

What satan concludes isn't the issue. Satan is as ignorant as you and I when it comes to the detailed plans of God.

If you say Jesus came exactly as us, you are saying he came as an enemy of God as well. Remember, we were enemies even when he rendered is life for us.

You are saying He came dead on arrival with a dead spirit that need salvation or repentance.

You are also saying his heart is desperately wicked like the one we got as a result of the fall

shdemidemi:

I agree with you. Was the spirit/the heart of man made by God to be evil? No. After man botched it, he lost the heart of God, he could never please God. Man needed to revive the dead spirit that died at the fall for any chance of pleasing God, hence why we needed Jesus to die so we might be brought back to life.

The inner man is not the wicked man. He is the real you and I that died when Adam sinned. That's why we can say an unbeliever is dead, though he is breathing, literally, like Adam was. The day an unbeliever comes to Christ, his spirit (connected to His creator) is brought back to life as far as God is concerned.

Every child born into this world except for jesus is born dead on arrival (spiritually). The baby becomes alive spiritually the day he/she accepts Christ. The sinful spirit/old man/sin nature that operates in that child before he/she comes to Christ is what is put to death at that point of spiritual new birth.

The bible makes us understand we would not even feel anything when this change happens but what did the bile say we do-

Romans 6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We take the word for what it says by faith. It says 'reckon' yourselves- meaning 'consider' yourselves dead to that adamic old nature or the wicked heart as you called it.

I agree too with most if not all of what you said but my point is that the inner man of an unbeliever is inherently wicked even if the flesh has done no wicked acts. Paul said sin reigned over all men (including those) that didn't sin in the similitude of Adam. Meaning even men who didn't disobey God with their bodies were sinners in his sight because of what Satan did.

Satan made sure a 'dead spirit' (to God) kept reproducing other 'dead spirits. He wanted the Savior to have a dead spirit (to God) as well. But God had other plans. That's why Satan was confused. He made Herod kill all the young babies of 2 years and below because he didn't even know who Jesus was.

shdemidemi:

Jesus was God and He was man while He walked on the surface of the earth. He constantly calls himself the son. It isn't as if God had a wife to give birth to Jesus. He called Himself the son because He is the image of God that people like you and I saw.

What satan concludes isn't the issue. Satan is as ignorant as you and I when it comes to the detailed plans of God.

If you say Jesus came exactly as us, you are saying he came as an enemy of God as well. Remember, we were enemies even when he rendered is life for us.

You are saying He came dead on arrival with a dead spirit that need salvation or repentance.

You are also saying his heart is desperately wicked like the one we got as a result of the fall

Jesus was God I agree and I never refuted that fact. I said he didn't FUNCTION as God.

Secondly, I said Jesus came exactly as a human being which means he had a Spirit, soul and body. But I maintained that his Spirit wasn't like ours-no sir. He had a righteous SPIRIT because he was fathered by God. Then he had an earthly mother which accounts for his physical body. That's why he was unique- he was born untainted unlike the rest of us bar Adam. That's why he was the Last Adam. He had to come like Adam to represent Adam. The only difference is that he needed Adamic flesh so that he would be able to die.

mbaemeka:

Dead spirit to God but alive to the devil. Just the same when we are born again we are dead to the devil and alive to God.

So when Adam was alive to the devil his Spirit was tainted with sin. That's why when God looked upon the earth he saw that Men's spirits had become continually evil and so he wiped them out. Satan was doing this in a bid to corrupt Jesus' Spirit. It had always been Satan's plan: to get sin INTO Jesus' Spirit.

If a thing is dead, it is dead. Adam never had that spirit anymore. The spirit he operated on was that of the world, the devil.

Now that we are born again, we don't have that old spirit any more. That is why there is such thing as OSAS. What is left of the old nature in a christian is that bond we had with it, it was all we knew. It is completely dead now and cannot be brought back to life.

The bible admonish us to start a renewing/ a reconstruction/ a refurbishment of our mind so we can get use to this new spirit that has been made alive in us.

mbaemeka:

Jesus was God I agree and I never refuted that fact. I said he didn't FUNCTION as God.

Secondly, I said Jesus came exactly as a human being which means he had a Spirit, soul and body. But I maintained that his Spirit wasn't like ours-no sir. He had a righteous SPIRIT because he was fathered by God. Then he had an earthly mother which accounts for his physical body. That's why he was unique- he was born untainted unlike the rest of us bar Adam. That's why he was the Last Adam. He had to come like Adam to represent Adam. The only difference is that he needed Adamic flesh so that he would be able to die.

My dear bro..

If you ever say he came with an adamic flesh, then it means he came as a sinner. Adamic flesh is a sinful flesh. He did not come as a sinner like you and I who sin was imputed even before we told our first lie. If he did he would sure need to be redeemed as well, you agree?

shdemidemi:

If a thing is dead, it is dead. Adam never had that spirit anymore. The spirit he operated on was that of the world, the devil.

Now that we are born again, we don't have that old spirit any more. That is why there is such thing as OSAS. What is left of the old nature in a christian is that bond we had with it, it was all we knew. It is completely dead now and cannot be brought back to life.

The bible admonish us to start a renewing/ a reconstruction/ a refurbishment of our mind so we can get use to this new soirit that has been made alive in us.

I agree with every other thing you said apart from the first sentence. If Adam's SPIRIT had 'died' the flesh would have died that very day. What the bible refers to as a dead spirit is that the Spirit is cut-off from God. Adam's SPIRIT was cut-off from God but now Alive to the devil. Same way anyone who is not born again is cut-off from God. Paul taught exactly that.

shdemidemi:

My dear bro..

If you ever say he came with an adamic flesh, then it means he came as a sinner. Adamic flesh is a sinful flesh. He did not come as a sinner like you and I who sin was imputed even before we told our first lie. If he did he would sure need to be redeemed as well, you agree?

Adamic flesh is a sinful flesh I agree. But my definition of that sinful flesh means a flesh that can sin, that is subject to sin, that can accommodate sin, that is corruptible, mortal etc and that's exactly the flesh Jesus had. Paul said that repeatedly. Jesus while in that Adamic/Human flesh NEVER SINNED. That's how unique he was again. Paul said he CONDEMNED SIN in the flesh meaning he destroyed sin, he defeated sin, he subjected sin, he won sin.

And we are to emulate Jesus now that we have the same Spirit with him.

Romans 8:3 NLT

The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

What is the weakness of sinful nature? The Spirit we had was tainted with sin and was ALIENATED from God so we couldn't obey the law. God then sent his son IN A BODY LIKE THE BODIES SINNERS HAVE.

mbaemeka:

I agree with every other thing you said apart from the first sentence. If Adam's SPIRIT had 'died' the flesh would have died that very day. What the bible refers to as a dead spirit is that the Spirit is cut-off from God. Adam's SPIRIT was cut-off from God but now Alive to the devil. Same way anyone who is not born again is cut-off from God. Paul taught exactly that.

When you use 'cut off' in that context, it is as if God and the devil are operating through one spirit in man. They are two separate spirit in operation bro.

If it was just a tainted spirit, the same spirit of God. The bible wouldn't say it was made aliive or bornagain or call it a new birth, rather it will say something like it was brought back or cleaned.

One spirit died when the other came alive and vice versa.

mbaemeka: If Adam's SPIRIT had 'died' the flesh would have died that very day

Not necessarily, where God stopped being in control of the affairs of man, the devil took over. The devil became the god/the father of men and by extension the god of the world.

Notice how the bible changed the language when Adam gave birth. He did not procreate in the likeness and image of God anymore but in likeness of the sinful, fallen Adam.

mbaemeka:

Adamic flesh is a sinful flesh I agree. But my definition of that sinful flesh means a flesh that can sin, that is subject to sin, that can accommodate sin, that is corruptible, mortal etc and that's exactly the flesh Jesus had. Paul said that repeatedly. Jesus while in that Adamic/Human flesh NEVER SINNED. That's how unique he was again. Paul said he CONDEMNED SIN in the flesh meaning he destroyed sin, he defeated sin, he subjected sin, he won sin.

Why don't we just leave adamic flesh as what it is- sinful, enmity with God, the devil's property.

Jesus never came in that form! but you and I did. Jesus came like that form but not in that form. He was never a sinner nor God's enemy at any point like you and I.

mbaemeka:
Jesus while in that Adamic/Human flesh NEVER SINNED. That's how unique he was again. Paul said he CONDEMNED SIN in the flesh meaning he destroyed sin, he defeated sin, he subjected sin, he won sin.

He defeated sin from the day he was conceived. The way he came in to the world was by a different route from the way you and I came. Since he could do that, he used the same power to condemn sin for us so we can become friends and sons of God.

You and I became sinners not because we told a lie, we became sinners because we were conceived in sin even before we had an opportunity to commit an act of sin. We became slaves to sin for that reason, sin was our master, he makes us crave for what is diametrically against God's will. Jesus was never a slave to sin, hence he couldn't be propelled to do the act.

mbaemeka:
And we are to emulate Jesus now that we have the same Spirit with him.

emulate in what sense?

mbaemeka: Romans 8:3 NLT

The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

What is the weakness of sinful nature? The Spirit we had was tainted with sin and was ALIENATED from God so we couldn't obey the law. God then sent his son IN A BODY LIKE THE BODIES SINNERS HAVE.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Who has a sinful flesh? man

who needs a solution to the problem? man

As good as the law would have been, it couldn't make man good because man was dead spiritually. Man was operating on a sinful nature, so the law could not make man better. The law actually revealed the sinfulness of sin in man. It proved to man that something else aside the law is needed.

Paul was making it clear to his audience that the law cannot bring about that righteousness. Obeying the law cannot satisfy God. All the law can do is stop me from prolly lying or stealing and allwhatnot. But the law could not repair the internal/inward damage caused by the fall of Adam.

The problem is more complicated than do's and don'ts. We needed that spirit that was lost in the garden to come back alive. The only solution that God saw fit was to come down Himself to do the job of regenerating the dead spirit in us.(caveat- if we believe)

God took on the image of man to pay a price. The price is death.

THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH

God had to pay the price for the sin Adam(man) committed.

If He wanted to be exactly as Adam after the fall, He would not come through the virgin Mary. He would have come through the lineage and with the genes of Adam. But, He took a separate route.

He came into the world like an ordinary sinner but not as a sinner, with the purpose of dying for all that had sinned (not because they told a lie) through the fall of Adam. He took sin by the jugular i.e from its source..

^^^
I don't even know what has brought this. The only thing I can pick from there is I never said Jesus came as a sinner. I said he had the same body sinners had. That's what the verse says.

Also, Jesus came through Adam. Jesus took upon himself the seed of Abraham and not the 'Nature of Angels'. That's what Hebrews 2 says. In other words, Jesus was like Isaac.

Peter said in Acts 2:22 that Jesus was a MAN approved of God by miracles, signs etc. Peter knew that Jesus was functioning as man while on earth and man needs God's help to cause a miracle to happen but God doesn't need anyone's help.