urheme:

Air

God feels like air? lmao.

Go home......you are not making sense

NativeBoy:

I won't argue with you about a lot of scamming being carried out in the name of God in Nigeria. However, your argument is faulty when you make a comparison between Europe and Africa and blame God for the disparity in response to the Ebola outbreak. We Africans are reaping what we sow. The inability to fight corruption, the lack of serious conviction to improve society, our collective cowardice to initiate revolution, etc. That's the difference.

To address your other point about Europe moving beyond God. Yes, Europe is largely secular now, but Europe's situation today didn't happen today did it? As we all know, Europe was built on a Judeo-Christian foundation. Secularism cannot now take the credit and I hope you were not implying that. Moreover, when Europe wasn't secular, did that stop them from making advances that improved quality of life? The answer is No. In fact, in all areas of life, from art to music to medicine, etc, people were making advances as a result of their service and devotion to God.

Your comment in bold is false
The enlightenment of Europe came with secular philosophy. Europe became more advanced as they left religion.


With religion, the church was persecuting scientists that had found things going against its dogma. Kings were claiming divine right to rule others instead of having democratic decisions.

Remember that when Europe was not secular, they were trading slaves and committing genocides. Maybe those are the effect of "judeo-chrstian" values

Acidosis:

It is better to serve Him and then find out its all false; than live a wayward life and then end in regrets.

I take risk alot; but not in heaven & hell matters.
How do people die? Why do people die? When they die, what follow? Where is the life? breath? soul? spirit? Where are the dead? How do dead people reveal things to the living? Why do demons speak? If you believe in small powers, magics, african jazz, voodoo, don't you know they're all manipulations/('counterfeiting') of a supreme power?

You don't believe in scriptures, but you'll easily believe in something called 7 books of Moses. Why do people manipulate the words of Moses? What do they do with these books? I've seen where a man ran m.ad after studying this book wrongly.


While I was much younger, I saw a giant angel in white garment talking to me. Where did he come from?

7-8 years back after my Jamb exams; I prayed and ask God to reveal my scores to me. That same night I saw my scores. How do you describe these events?

I have seen more than enough miracles to believe in the God I serve. I have seen live miracles, too many for me to type. I have seen where a blind man suffering from total blindness recovered after a short prayer to God. I have seen events too many to mention.

You don't have to believe my beliefs. I have my reasons for serving and trusting Him. I believe in visions, I believe in miracles, I believe in dreams and revelations, I'm terrestial on earth, in the same vein I believe in the Celestial in heaven - which is the home of the most High.

Acidosis,

There are so many funny aspects to your post that I don't know where to start from. I would just tackle a few of the outrageous statements you made in response to ‘Oduduwaboy’s post as follows:

1. It is better to serve Him and then find out its all false; than live a wayward life and then end in regrets.

Firstly, I would like to point out that non - belief in a supreme being watching your every single move does not equate to being a bad person in terms of morals etc. I live a perfectly non 'wayward' life and I don't believe in a god.

2. While I was much younger, I saw a giant angel in white garment talking to me. Where did he come from?

The human mind is capable of so many extraordinary things. The human mind created the airplane for instance so it’s therefore not amazing that an impressionable 5 - 7 year old imagined he was talking to a giant angel. Most children have imaginary friends; religion makes them keep these imaginary friend(s) into adulthood even in the face of the lack of evidence.

3. 7-8 years back after my Jamb exams; I prayed and ask God to reveal my scores to me. That same night I saw my scores. How do you describe these events?

Well my take on this is that you took the exams and as any rational human who studied for the said exams should be able to evaluate your performance. Obviously, the examination was in your sub conscious (and conscious mind) during the period mixing in with your beliefs and thus resulting in illogical revelations from a so called god.

It's either that or God is a Jamb examiner who marked your script and 'revealed' the results to you in your dreams. I think not!

4. I have seen more than enough miracles to believe in the God I serve. I have seen live miracles, too many for me to type. I have seen where a blind man suffering from total blindness recovered after a short prayer to God. I have seen events too many to mention.

Show us the evidence. Are you a medical practitioner? How do you know he was completely blind as you ascribe? Did you know him before that?

Also bear in mind that the eyewitness account is the weakest form of evidence known to man. If you like I can elaborate on this further or you may just simply 'google'

5. I'm terrestial on earth, in the same vein I believe in the Celestial in heaven - which is the home of the most High
Where is this heaven located? Is it close to Mars or Venus? In the Milky way? Just after the Sun? Where is it?

One reason why I try to avoid arguments or discourse with religious folks on the issue of God and Science. Everything Man-made can be tied to God in anyway possible. so God is intelligent yet he does unintelligent things that intelligent folks are supposed to believe is right in his Infinite Wisdom.. afterall he created the stuff Science is still trying to figure out.

logicboy01:

Your comment in bold is false
The enlightenment of Europe came with secular philosophy. Europe became more advanced as they left religion.


With religion, the church was persecuting scientists that had found things going against its dogma. Kings were claiming divine right to rule others instead of having democratic decisions.

Remember that when Europe was not secular, they were trading slaves and committing genocides. Maybe those are the effect of "judeo-chrstian" values

My comment isn't false no matter how much you may wish it so. Your comments are a total over-generalization.

The Galileo persecution (which is what you are referring to) has been revealed to be largely a myth. Please read up on it. He wasn't persecuted on religious grounds as he himself believed in God. He came at odds not only with the church but with other scientists because his theories went against the Aristotelian paradigm that dominated the scientific thinking of the day.

Secondly, the enlightenment as a movement was limited to a class of intellectuals (some of whom were believers in God by the way). That does not translate into a claim that Europe was secular.

As far as the point about slavery and genocide, humans have carried out both acts with or without God.

NativeBoy:

My comment isn't false no matter how much you may wish it so. Your comments are a total over-generalization.

The Galileo persecution (which is what you are referring to) has been revealed to be largely a myth. Please read up on it. He wasn't persecuted on religious grounds as he himself believed in God. He came at odds not only with the church but with other scientists because his theories went against the Aristotelian paradigm that dominated the scientific thinking of the day.

Secondly, the enlightenment as a movement was limited to a class of intellectuals (some of whom were believers in God by the way). That does not translate into a claim that Europe was secular.

As far as the point about slavery and genocide, humans have carried out both acts with or without God.

Slavery backed with religion was the worst. The European/American slavery of blacks, the Arab slavery of blacks.

Europe was moving away from a lot of religious dogma during the enlightenment


And as usual, you twist history to sweeten your unscientific religion- Galileo was persecuted by the church and even worse, most scientists were at the time at the beck and call of the church- slaves to the church. You wonder why they never progressed.


Of course, the catholic church will lie that it didnt persecute Galileo. We all know how they twist history

logicboy01:


Slavery backed with religion was the worst. The European/American slavery of blacks, the Arab slavery of blacks.

Europe was moving away from a lot of religious dogma during the enlightenment


And as usual, you twist history to sweeten your unscientific religion- Galileo was persecuted by the church and even worse, most scientists were at the time at the beck and call of the church- slaves to the church. You wonder why they never progressed.


Of course, the catholic church will lie that it didnt persecute Galileo. We all know how they twist history

This is why there is no point in arguing. It doesn't lead anywhere. There is no twisting going on here. It's a matter of fact that what set Galileo against the church AND other scientists of the day was his theory's opposition to the Aristotelian model. They disagreed over the science not about whether God was inhibiting the science.

I'm getting older and have no desire for pages worth of back and forth arguments. The only point I will keep making to you as I've always done is the error you make when trying to contrast God with science. That is a failed argument.

NativeBoy:

This is why there is no point in arguing. It doesn't lead anywhere. There is no twisting going on here. It's a matter of fact that what set Galileo against the church AND other scientists of the day was his theory's opposition to the Aristotelian model. They disagreed over the science not about whether God was inhibiting the science.

I'm getting older and have no desire for pages worth of back and forth arguments. The only point I will keep making to you as I've always done is the error you make when trying to contrast God with science. That is a failed argument.

God, christianity, islam and judaism are all unscientific. Period.

NativeBoy:

This is why there is no point in arguing. It doesn't lead anywhere. There is no twisting going on here. It's a matter of fact that what set Galileo against the church AND other scientists of the day was his theory's opposition to the Aristotelian model. They disagreed over the science not about whether God was inhibiting the science.

I'm getting older and have no desire for pages worth of back and forth arguments. The only point I will keep making to you as I've always done is the error you make when trying to contrast God with science. That is a failed argument.

Yes, Galileo stood against the church and other scientists. The problem is that the church and their scientists were wrong and Galileo was right and he had the evidence to prove it. Had the church not been involved, he would have debated with the scientists, shown them his evidence and sensible people would have eventually sided with him. Instead, the argument went more like this:
Church: The earth is the centre of the universe!
Galileo: No its not, and I have clear evidence from my new telescope device.
Church: This evidence doesn't agree with the bible. Recant it or we'll fúckin burn you alive!!!
Galileo: Ha! Oga, abeg na lie o! I must have been confused when I was looking in the telescope. Please sir, don't burn me.
Church: Good, we've managed to dialogue with another heretic. And we didn't even have to torture him this time. Now BURN ALL HIS BOOKS!!! Lock him up FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!!! Let's show these scientists what happens to anyone who contradicts the fairy tales that we use to make money!

Xcapist: And

lol... there was one in my school some time ago,it was tagged 'champions league'.All na strategy.

lastmessenger:
Why not try doing doing business with me and find out.
I still say it again that mind is everything and that you become what you think.
You become an athiest when you think there is no God and same goes to the Muslim who think that Muhammad is their Allah messenger.
For me I think that Christ is the son of God and that has automatically made me a christain .

...Because you 'think' it doesn't mean it's true. I think I am the most handsome dude in Lagos; my lack of luck with the ladies proves otherwise...evidence.

oluwabambam: I was just reading a post on Nairaland some minutes ago where the topic was on what constitutes a God-fearing individual. Someone commented adding that he/she is an atheist and that got me wondering. I have been seeing so many atheists on social media in Nigeria and it bothers me why there are so many of them nowadays. Are people now saying that there is no God? Do people mean that they don't believe in the creator of the universe? How did they come into existence if they don't believe in God. God created us all and this is what the Bible says. What is it with all these atheists? I want to understand why anyone would come to the conclusion that there is no God. It baffles me seriously. I need answers.

What. Are you scared? You've asked several questions based on deep misconceptions. You'll first need to address those misconceptions in order to better phrase your questions. e.g

oluwabambam:
Are people now saying that there is no God?

Atheists don't necessarily say there is no God.

oluwabambam:
Do people mean that they don't believe in the creator of the universe?

Your assumption that your God created the universe is faulty.

oluwabambam:
How did they come into existence if they don't believe in God.

The assumption that believing in your God leads to someone's existence is faulty.

oluwabambam:
God created us all and this is what the Bible says.

Your assumption that because something is written in the Bible, it must be true is also faulty. This is why you need to first address these more fundamental flaws in order to understand something about the atheist point of view

AdamuUcheOla:


...Because you 'think' it doesn't mean it's true. I think I am the most handsome dude in Lagos; my lack of luck with the ladies proves otherwise...evidence.

You think you are handsome and that I believe is what you are but that does not mean that every lady runs crazy for you.
Getting a lady liking you goes beyond being handsome.it a mix that defers from one lady to another.

logicboy01:


Yet another christian/theist that believes that atheism is a foreign/white thing.

"A true Nigerian cant be an atheist"

No true scotsman fallacy

=================
Chinua Achebe was already a non-christian and a skeptic before leaving the shores of Nigeria. He wasnt a christian and neither did he have access to the internet

and who told chinua was not a Christian...
so u choose to be an atheist because of another man
what many fail to understand is that Christianity is not a religion but a personal relationship with God/ a lifestyle. Christianity is not a relationship with your pastors.
I got no problem with atheist, they are a bunch of brilliant people who think they are wise. in everything I would say every atheists feel an emptiness within them but they got no clue on how to break chain

JPpresh406:
and who told chinua was not a Christian...
so u choose to be an atheist because of another man
what many fail to understand is that Christianity is not a religion but a personal relationship with God/ a lifestyle. Christianity is not a relationship with your pastors.
I got no problem with atheist, they are a bunch of brilliant people who think they are wise. in everything I would say every atheists feel an emptiness within them but they got no clue on how to break chain

I am not an atheist because of another man

logicboy01:



I am not an atheist because of another man

I like u logicboy u are quite learned but I see so much hate in you towards the nigerian pastors

lastmessenger:
You think you are handsome and that I believe is what you are but that does not mean that every lady runs crazy for you.
Getting a lady liking you goes beyond being handsome.it a mix that defers from one lady to another.

You are missing my basic premise Bro. What I am saying is thinking/believing something is correct does not necessarily mean it is so.

How can u believe I am handsome just on account of what I have typed. You have not seen me? You don't know what I look like... You need evidence to reach a conclusion.

The same premise should be applied to religion: because the bible or the quran or torah say there is a supreme being does not mean they are correct. Where is the evidence?

A man who is wrong but thinks he's right is still wrong.

AdamuUcheOla:


You are missing my basic premise Bro. What I am saying is thinking/believing something is correct does not necessarily mean it is so.

How can u believe I am handsome just on account of what I have typed. You have not seen me? You don't know what I look like... You need evidence to reach a conclusion.

The same premise should be applied to religion: because the bible or the quran or torah say there is a supreme being does not mean they are correct. Where is the evidence?

A man who is wrong but thinks he's right is still wrong.

Haha what a logic. Those of is who believe have seem the proof that what we believe is concrete.secondly when you believe that something is real your mind automatically goes to work to show the evidences to substantiate what you believe or think.

lastmessenger:
Haha what a logic. Those of is who believe have seem the proof that what we believe is concrete.secondly when you believe that something is real your mind automatically goes to work to show the evidences to substantiate what you believe or think.

What proof have you seen personally? Please share.

Also you should look up the meaning of a delusional disorder. In it's simplest form; it's when one's mind holds on to a conviction despite contrary evidence. A deluded mind "automatically goes to work to show the evidences (sic) to substantiate what u believe or think".

You see what I did there

AdamuUcheOla:


What proof have you seen personally? Please share.

Also you should look up the meaning of a delusional disorder. In it's simplest form; it's when one's mind holds on to a conviction despite contrary evidence. A deluded mind "automatically goes to work to show the evidences (sic) to substantiate what u believe or think".

You see what I did there

Am done with you.

lastmessenger:
Am done with you.

So am I.

Ukutsgp: it can only be GOD. who place the heavenly bodies in that orderly fashion? the answer is God. Genesis 1.

Which God? Odin, Allah, Zeus, Jehovah

logicboy01:


Religion has failed Nigeria. Our pastors are hypocrite adulterers, tithe scammers and frauds. Government had to order churches not to try ebola miracle healings. We have boko haram and Almajiris destroying the north. Religious preachers preaching ignorance from the pulpit. Politicians stealing and plundering, yet offered the front seat at churches.


Actually, Europe has progressed beyond God. When the European saw the Ebola, they made protocols to prevent an epidemic. Fools in Nigeria were busy praying and paying tithes until it spread from Liberia.


God is not self evident. The sun itself is self evident- no one argues that the sun doesnt exists.

This is one case where religion only destroys, instead of hard work, commitment and intelligence we have African nations running to Jewish idols

Members of the Liberian Senate have
proposed a day of fast and prayer against
the Ebola Virus here to be observed and
conducted by lawmakers of the 53rd
Liberian Legislature.
Making the suggestion, which was
overwhelmingly welcomed by the many
senators in plenary, Margibi County
Senior Senator, Madam Claric Alpha Jah,
suggested that all senators and members
of the House of Representatives should
hold day-long prayers on behalf of the
country.
Though, the Senators did not conclude
on the date for such fast and prayer, the
President Pro-tempore of the Liberian
Senate, Gbehnzohngar Milton Findley,
indicated that members of the lower
house should form part of the prayer
service.
"I want to suggest that we seek the face
of God. As national leaders if we can take
the lead by using the annex of the
Providence Baptist Church where the
nation's independence declaration was
signed to be used by us as leaders to seek
the Almighty God's face," he said.
Speaking in Senate's plenary on
Thursday; the Margibi County lawmaker
said that it is time for Liberia, as a nation
to return to the creator, especially in
such a difficult time. But Nimba County
Senator Thomas Grupee, said that the
church is corrupt and at such it's not
expedient for the nation to seek God's
face at a church.
Senator Grupee, who chairs the Nimba
County Legislative Caucus, said if the
prayer service should be held, funds
generated from that service should be
put into government coffers. "The
church is corrupt and that the funds
generated from the service should be
sent to the government to fight Ebola,' he
said.
However, he was quickly halted by Sinoe
County Senior Senator Mobutu Vlah
Nyenpan, who termed the statement as
'sweeping and misguided'. Sen. Nyenpan
said that it is unfortunate for a national
leader to categorize the church as being
corrupt, which is unacceptable. It may be
recalled that on August 6, 2014,
President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf called for
three days of fast and prayer to ask for
divine intervention against the country's
deadliest-ever Ebola outbreak.
"I call on all Liberians to observe three
days of national fast and prayer to seek
God's face to have mercy on us and
forgive our sins and heal our land,
Liberia, as we continue the fight against
the deadly Ebola virus", President Sirleaf
said in a statement.

[url=m.allafrica.com/stories/201409121080.html/?maneref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fm%3Fq%3DLiberia%2Bprayers%2Bagainst%2Bebola%26client%3Dms-opera-mini-android%26channel%3Dnew]source[/url]

urheme: You breath air from the environment, you don,t know the shape, colour and size of the oxygen you breath, physically, you can't it catch it with bare hands but you feel it because you are alive.



So your line of argument is that the sun exist because i see light, the blind man cannot see it but can feel it
You can also tell me that air does not exist because you can neither see nor touch it.

You have faith in things that you have not phisically seen because some scientist told you that such a thing exist.

Nobody can show you God, and you can only convience your self that there is God or not,look within your self and decide

Nobody can show u God either, have u seen ur god Jehovah?
The planet is no evidence for any God, stop using God to explain wat you don't understand

all Gods even lay claim to sustainer of the universe: Jehovah, Allah, zeus, Odin etc
Which is the real alien/monster/man thing living in the sky?

NativeBoy:

I won't argue with you about a lot of scamming being carried out in the name of God in Nigeria. However, your argument is faulty when you make a comparison between Europe and Africa and blame God for the disparity in response to the Ebola outbreak. We Africans are reaping what we sow. The inability to fight corruption, the lack of serious conviction to improve society, our collective cowardice to initiate revolution, etc. That's the difference.

To address your other point about Europe moving beyond God. Yes, Europe is largely secular now, but Europe's situation today didn't happen today did it? As we all know, Europe was built on a Judeo-Christian foundation. Secularism cannot now take the credit and I hope you were not implying that. Moreover, when Europe wasn't secular, did that stop them from making advances that improved quality of life? The answer is No. In fact, in all areas of life, from art to music to medicine, etc, people were making advances as a result of their service and devotion to God.

You probably know nothing about the medieval times of Europe when the church reigned supreme, only priests went to school, anyone found acting or propagating ideas against the tales and dogmas of the church were prosecuted, genocide, corruption, dictatorship, sexism, child molestation, slavery etc.

Secular phycology and movements have made Europe what it is today

NativeBoy:

I won't argue with you about a lot of scamming being carried out in the name of God in Nigeria. However, your argument is faulty when you make a comparison between Europe and Africa and blame God for the disparity in response to the Ebola outbreak. We Africans are reaping what we sow. The inability to fight corruption, the lack of serious conviction to improve society, our collective cowardice to initiate revolution, etc. That's the difference.

To address your other point about Europe moving beyond God. Yes, Europe is largely secular now, but Europe's situation today didn't happen today did it? As we all know, Europe was built on a Judeo-Christian foundation. Secularism cannot now take the credit and I hope you were not implying that. Moreover, when Europe wasn't secular, did that stop them from making advances that improved quality of life? The answer is No. In fact, in all areas of life, from art to music to medicine, etc, people were making advances as a result of their service and devotion to God.

You are here again with your false claim. . .Secularism is what has made the western world to become what it is today. . .We all know the principles that made the west to become the giant that is is today, these principles are democracy(freedom to vote and be voted for, freedom of association, freedom of speech etc), capitalism, separation of such and state, capitalism, gender equality, and secular education that promotes naturalistic reasoning instead of superstition and mythology. . .NON of these principles is rooted in christianity, in fact a lot of them are anti christian principles. . .

macof:


This is one case where religion only destroys, instead of hard work, commitment and intelligence we have African nations running to Jewish idols

Macof, why did you show me such depressing story?

Religion...chai!!!

There are probably so many atheists in Nigeria because of Christianity which is a stupid religion and makes people disbelieve in God. If you got rid of Christianity and all its stupidity then being theist would be much more easy. It's a shame you mention the bible because that very book is creating a lot of atheists in the world.

Regards, a theist, who doesn't like Christianity.

mazaje:

You are here again with your false claim. . .Secularism is what has made the western world to become what it is today. . .We all know the principles that made the west to become the giant that is is today, these principles are democracy(freedom to vote and be voted for, freedom of association, freedom of speech etc), capitalism, separation of such and state, capitalism, gender equality, and secular education that promotes naturalistic reasoning instead of superstition and mythology. . .NON of these principles is rooted in christianity, in fact a lot of them are anti christian principles. . .

Secularism is a cancer which is the direct product of Christianity which is a weak slave religion that encourages stupidity like turning the other cheek, equality, democrashitty, etc. The vast majority of Christians are slaves to the demiurge and the secular people are as well.

We should get rid of equality, get rid of voting and have a monarch (king) instead, and purge the cancers of secularism and Christianity.

"I call on all Liberians to observe three
days of national fast and prayer to seek
God's face to have mercy on us and
forgive our sins and heal our land,
Liberia, as we continue the fight against
the deadly Ebola virus", President Sirleaf
said in a statement.

Deluded African leaders, always telling their followers to pray to dead gods that never answer their prayers and solve their problems since 1900. . .

FringeWizard:

Secularism is a cancer which is the direct product of Christianity which is a weak slave religion that encourages stupidity like turning the other cheek, equality, democrashitty, etc. The vast majority of Christians are slaves to the demiurge and the secular people are as well.

We should get rid of equality, get rid of voting and have a monarch (king) instead , and purge the cancers of secularism and Christianity.

Lwkmd!! All hail king FringeWizard! King ke? Wtf man?! Just when I thought I've seen the champion of crazy, someone comes along dashing all set record! Guy this is the type of thinking that led to the holocaust and the present ISIS, boko haram terrorism issue we're experiencing.

logicboy01:


Religion has failed Nigeria. Our pastors are hypocrite adulterers, tithe scammers and frauds. Government had to order churches not to try ebola miracle healings. We have boko haram and Almajiris destroying the north. Religious preachers preaching ignorance from the pulpit. Politicians stealing and plundering, yet offered the front seat at churches.


Actually, Europe has progressed beyond God. When the European saw the Ebola, they made protocols to prevent an epidemic. Fools in Nigeria were busy praying and paying tithes until it spread from Liberia.


God is not self evident. The sun itself is self evident- no one argues that the sun doesnt exists.

In fact, the European Renaissance was mostly based on scientific knowledge from a pagan nation: Ancient Greece. We're talking about Mathematics, science, philosophy, Pythagorean, democracy, freedom of speech etc. That's why Ancient Greece is often called The Cradle of Western Civilization


Some could say that the forceful imposition of christianity by the emperor Constantine led to the downfall of the Roman Empire, which has been followed by the horrible Middle Ages in Europe. It's only the scientific and cultural Renaissance often based on the knowledge from the "pagan" nation of Ancient Greece which led Europe toward the right path.