TV01: ...either the stats or the dates in this article are wrong - obviously. Divorce in the UK has not doubled (or increased by 53%) since 2013.

Divorce should still be avoided, hated and stigmatised though.


TV

carefreewannabe:

TV on his mission again.

Yeah, let people spend their lives in misery because some people think it's a stigma to be divorced.

TV01: ...either the stats or the dates in this article are wrong - obviously. Divorce in the UK has not doubled (or increased by 53%) since 2013.

Divorce should still be avoided, hated and stigmatised though.


TV

TV01:

No one is prescribong misery. Either 1. Do not marry or 2. Marry with understanding. See, only joy and fulfillment. No misery, and no divorce with it's attendant societal cost.


Happy?


TV

Songitto:

Are you a native of UK?? I guess

Songitto:
10. Canada:
Canada is a developed nation, but with various
social problems. The people here remain too
busy in coping up with the challenges of
tomorrow and don’t spend time with their
families. This is one of the reasons of
increased divorce rate in Canada, in addition to
various other family issues. It is considered
that the rate of divorce in Canada during this
year has increased 50 % from 2013.

carefreewannabe:

You cannot predict the future when you get married. Circumstances can change, people can change, love can fade away. There are plenty of reason why a marriage can turn very sour in the course of time.

TV01:

Resident of the UK. All the figures are dodgy. Right from Canada at no 10.



We can't have figures for 2014 yet as it's still 2014 and no way it increases 50% y-o-y, even in a secular-liberal place like Canada.


TV

carefreewannabe:

The website quoted is one of the most unreliable sources I have come across. And you have just proven why.

The last time someone quoted an article from this website, Germany was a very dangerous place.

Unfortunately, people think that everything on the Internet is right and true.

TV01:

Your confusion and lack of understanding are glaring;

- Circumstances can change, but commitment does not have too.

- Indeed, not only can love fade, it will fade - as a feeling - your commitment to loving however, remains.

- As many reasons as there are for a marriage to turn sour, there are more for it to remain, deepen and become sweeter over time.

I'd counsel you to apply advice #1 until you get it.


TV

TV01:
You actually clicked on it?
As soon as I read #10, I knew it was wrong. And it was all the way to #1.

Everyone knows the country with the highest divorce rate !


TV

TV01:
You actually clicked on it?
As soon as I read #10, I knew it was wrong. And it was all the way to #1.

Everyone knows the country with the highest divorce rate !


TV

carefreewannabe: You could have made your point without snappish remarks.

carefreewannabe: My commitment depends on several factors. One of them would be my partner's behavior.

carefreewannabe: Love does not necessarily have to fade. It can change and become even deeper and stronger.

carefreewannabe: Did you say, I was confused?

carefreewannabe: If love is a feeling, how can I commit to loving? It is either I feel it or I don't.

carefreewannabe: True and depending on the individual situation a person can have more reasons to leave than to remain and vice versa.

carefreewannabe: Like I said, my commitment is not unconditional.

Songitto: Do your finding and post it here with the source the let's compare to each other

Songitto:

Do your findings and post it here with the source then let's compare to each other

TV01:
Apologies. I am passionately jealous for marriage.

Then why make it?

In all likelihood it will wax and wane

...and scared. It's probably your main driver regards marriage !

If...

Commit then love. If you love then commit, your commitment will fade with the love. Regardless of your spouses behaviour.

Like I said, it is therefore not a commitment. More of a wish...and the union a fairytale !


TV

carefreewannabe: Believe it or nor but I respect it.

carefreewannabe: I just have a problem when you say that people should be stigmatized. I don't think anyone has ever dreamt of divorce so if people divorce, they have their reasons and it is not for us to judge them.

carefreewannabe: Why not? The decision to be committed does not mean that it is a do or die affair.

carefreewannabe: I think you confuse love with infatuation. Infatuation will definitely fade. Love is a different thing.

carefreewannabe: I am not scared of marriage as I have the possibility to leave it when I decide to.

carefreewannabe: You said love was a feeling.

carefreewannabe: I commit to who I love, not the other way round.

carefreewannabe: And I commit to a person that deserves it and as long as this person deserves it. The person stops to deserve it the day I discover that the relationship/marriage is in some way destructive.

carefreewannabe: Commitment does not mean that you accept and tolerate anything. You can be committed for some time and then decide that it is better not to be.

TV01:
But you don't fully understand or reverence it.

Divorce should be stigmatised. And if breaking a marriage is to have no moral value, why should solemnising one?

So you want the "do" without the "die"? The decision to commit does not mean you have to marry.

No, I do not.

If there is an open door, then it's not marriage. If there isn't then you are fearful or don;t actually want marriage. Not for the right reasons anyway.

No, I said if it's a feeling, then it will fade or wax and wane. And is no basis for commitment. The commitment is love.
Then when the feeling goes, the commitment follows.

So it's really based on how you feel? Not on the commitment? In which case, why make it? Why marriage? You can have any number of alternative arrangements and your variable commitment. Why seek a vow of permanancy, when even as you make it, in your heart, it is not necessarily so.

If what you accept,tolerate or feel are all subjective, why take vows. You can co-habit, live apart and visit, be partners, lovers or anyhting you both decide to construct. Why seek marriage when it doesn't fit the model of your relationship?


TV

GreyBlood: Feminism; the main cause of divorce in our world

carefreewannabe:
I don't know if I fully understand it.

carefreewannabe:
I don't think so but you can continue throwing stones if it makes you feel better.

carefreewannabe:
Exactly, I want the do without the die. You got it.

carefreewannabe:
Ok. Then we have a different understanding of love.

carefreewannabe:
It is marriage as long as two people stay married.

carefreewannabe:
I am sure that many marriages would be much happier if people didn't take it for granted that their spouses will stay no matter what.

carefreewannabe:
I understand.

carefreewannabe:
This is why I believe that marriage is not a good idea. I don't want anyone to be with me because he thinks that he has to due to the vow he took.

carefreewannabe:
Nobody can promise anyone to love them forever and marriage understood as obligation to be with someone forever is not what I consider a good plan for the rest of my life.

carefreewannabe: It is for those who feel it is ok to stay with someone even if it doesn't make you happy, which can happen and which happens very often.

alutacontinua: There should be a fine for epistle writers on NL
it just makes me hit the 'back' button

TV01:
I agree. I wouldn't even say you have a good understanding

I'm not throwing stones. The notion of divorce should be stigmatised. It's for the overall best. I maintian my position that if you understood marriage you'd appreciate that.

Then what you want is not marriage, it's something else - and no one is denying you that something else. And neither are we denying you marriage - only you want marriage to be structured after your own desires. Sorry, no can do.

And as love is in some sense abstract, we can have differences as to what it is. There is not necessarily right or wrong, good or bad in ones definition of love.

No, by definition, it's a marriage as long as vows are taken and the two remaion alive. Although I appreciate the legalistic approach that can be taken to it. And I also appreciate that the legalistic approach has not only not improved it, it has seriously impaired it's utility.

Your funny thinking...so you really think a man or woman in a marriage would feel secure and at peace knowing their spouse could simply up and leave at will? Or that succumbing to temptation would be less likely knowing that you could just leave if the attraction was intense or strong enough?

Actually you don't..and if the discussion progresses, I'll show you why.

Actually, here's a convenient place to start;

Firstly, marriage is not solely or even primarily about you. And you first error is to parse it solely in terms of your desires and the outcomes for you alone.

Secondly, are you not revealing more confusion, by saying you respect it and at once claiming it's a bad idea? Would you respect an idea like a "mesh parachute" or a "windscreenless car"- would you use one?

Thirdly, love - as a feeling - is not and has never been the basis of marriage. You vow to love someone when getting married. Love in itself does not warrant marriage. Love is an action, a commitment to honouring that vow.

If you cannot promise to actively love someone for ever - as opposed to feel it - why take the marriage vow that demands that very thing? Free marriage, leave it for those that get it, don't traduce it. Reject it, don't calumnise it.

No one is under any obligation to marry. You can be freelance FWB or FB for as long as you wish. You are not obliged to choose a lifelong relationship of mutual commitment and fidelity. How can one be obliged by something one voluntarily entered into?

Like I said, you don't really get it. Your happiness is paramount. And your subjective assessment of happiness is the measure. That's not a mindset for marriage. Please don't take it personally.