When ever I come to nairaland I usually come to the religion forum. I like the debates and the topics, I try to contribute whenever I feel I have something significant to say. I try as best as possible not insult anybody because I believe it achieves nothing.
Unfortunately, I can not say the same for a lot of people, especially Christians.
If I have ever come across a group of people who do not have good etiquette's when holding a debate, I would have to say it is the Christians on the site. I don't know wether, it stems from insecurity, or inferiority complex, I feel the only method they use to get there point across is to relegate others. Unfortunately this problem seems to be consistent with some particular groups of Christians (no names are necessary, i am sure you know who you are ).
It leave me to think, that there is still so much that your religion does not teach you, besides  material prosperity.
You always talk about Jesus Christ, but I put it to you that a lot of you do not exemplify his teachings. I believe a lot of you need to go back to the drawing board.

@post
Very well said.

A notable point that applies to everyone

One of the reasons responsible IMHO is that too many people wants to be teachers when scriptures clearly warn against this.

God bless!

@poster:

Very well said. i could not have said it better.

some "Christian" folks on this forum don't have a servant's heart. Christians are supposed to stand out - Jesus said "By their fruits you will know them". Non-Christians will notice that you are set apart from the others in the way you handle things, the words you speak, the actions of love you perform. They may not recognize it as the "fruits of the Spirit" but they will recognize it to be different from the rest.

As Christians we forget the doing, the becoming and God working through us, despise ourselves. if we ignore the "doing" part, we can end up just sitting around on our hands waiting for God to use us, If we ignore the "God working through us" part, we can become prideful in believing that we're the ones who are so great in helping others. If we ignore the "becoming" part, we ignore that Christ is changing us, and if we're not changed through our relationship with Jesus, what do we really have to offer people that will help them today?. . . .thats the question to be asked

Peace

A muslim (known for their own blatant disregard for the very same things they complain about) throws red meat and everyone is rushing to grab it.

Nanayisha - have YOUR OWN muslim brethren adhered to the standards with which you criticise christians?
How many times have muslims thrown a fit, gotten threads locked, sent death threats to moderators and insisted on the banning of others for the very same things you criticise us of?

go to the muslim-only thread . . . is it a paragorn of the virtues you decietfully espouse?

nanayisha:

You always talk about Jesus Christ, but I put it to you that a lot of you do not exemplify his teachings. I believe a lot of you need to go back to the drawing board.

the quran also talks glibly about Jesus . . . do YOU exemplify his teachings?

@daviddylan:

Lets say this person is not a Muslim - Could you address the substance of the poster's first email.  I'll like to see how you address it.  I read her/him posting and I see it has nothing to do with  she/he being a Muslim or athiest

you seem to have a way of[b] blaming religion [/b] rather than addressing the issue. You have a lot to learn my brother. . .or as the poster put it you need to go back to the drawing board.

what say you?

Cayon:

@daviddylan:

Lets say this person is not a Muslim - Could you address the substance of the poster's first email.  I'll like to see how you address it.  I read her/him posting and I see it has nothing to do with  she/he being a Muslim or athiest

you seem to have a way of blaming religion rather than addressing the issue.

what say you?

Nanayisha is certainly a muslim. I know.

I have not blamed religion, rather i have addressed the issue - a muslim seeking a subtle way to slight christianity and gullible "christians" swallowing the "self-righteous" bait hook, line and sinker.

I'm wondering what your ulterior motive is for being specifically interested in me "addressing the issue". I suppose my opinion is nothing you shld be worried about.

Cayon:

You have a lot to learn my brotheror as the poster put it you need to go back to the drawing board.

what say you?

My 2 cents,

I have a lot to learn - that is why i constantly seek to learn from books and more mature people who address my questions and my failings.

You on the other hand, seem to have a serious problem with people who show you that a lot of what you spout here is pure unchristian drivel. I am not perfect but i am not a self-righteous, clueless, saccharine "christian" either . . . where i see unlearned people trying to sow seeds of unbiblical nonsense i am quick to call them out on it.

You can complain from now till tomorrow.

pot calling kettle black. jobless Arrow

This is what Nanayisha has to say about salvation in Jesus Christ our Lord

- I am definitely at a lost with this one. If any argue is unconsistent, this is the one.
First it is said that no soul shall carry the burdens of another, then it is said that Jesus died for the Sins of Man.
Please can we go back to logical. I don't understand the ethos of this ideology. If Jesus died for the sins of Man, why do we need to be good. Why do we need to live clean lives.

If anything should come from a religion, it should be consistency.

If i wrote EXACTLY this piece but replaced "Jesus" for Allah, called his quran inconsistent and illogical . . . would nana still accuse me of being insultive?

so i see the topic change from the poster's email thread to a personal attack.

Here is an evelasting saying my father left with me "Never stoop to the level of your antagonists: make them rise to yours, if they can.

quick question" Is it me you referring to when you say go to the Muslim Section? If so, why?

Well I think we should look at this two ways, first of all there are self righteous christians who think they have all the answers and the bible was dictated to them to write. That part is true, the second is are there no atheists who show this same behaviour, they certainly are, and the muslims are not left behind either. One time or the other any really active poster here would have lost his cool and the onus is on everyone regardless of your religious affiliations to try and be civil to those that are civil to you too.
How about we all go back to the drawing board eh

Cayon:

so i see the topic change from the poster's email thread to a personal attack.

I see only one "personal attack" here . . . your deliberate and uncalled for decision to PERSONALLY address my post that was meant for nanayisha.

I have every right to defend my position, you have every right to hypocritically claim "victim" status.

Cayon:

Here is an evelasting saying my father left with me "Never stoop to the level of your antagonists: make them rise to yours, if they can.

That's true . . . here is one other saying i like a lot . . . you cant go lower if u're already down.

Cayon:

quick question" Is it me you referring to when you say go to the Muslim Section? If so, why?

no, i didnt even notice you until you took upon urself the hypocrites mantle to ask me to "address the posters first email". Why u're particularly interested of course is up for debate. I have no interest in debating people who are "christians" only in words.

One thing i like to point out - John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, Paul ALL called out heretics in the strongest terms . . . it has nothing to do with this nonsense about "servant's heart".

If you mutilate the bible i will let you know. Political correctness is not something i enjoy.

Okay lets get back to the topic, shall we?

nanayisha:

As a Muslim I have to be careful of my response with this post.

Okay, you're a muslim - thanks for throwing in your worries here and not in the muslim section. I have imagined that people who are too gleeful to applaud every idea passed off without weighing their underpinnings would not see that. There are several threads that have been raised about this issue already; but why this one on "The Ignorance of Christians"? On the contrary, Christians are not ignorant - and the OP being a muslim should have known this right out of his quran that Christians are intelligent people!

It's easy to point accusing fingers at others - what do we make of your own slobber in capital letters:

nanayisha:

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU.

??

Could we also see you open a thread in fairness and tagged: "The Ignorance of Muslims"?

@Davidylan: « #5 on: November 04, 2008, 08:47 PM » (Ogbeni Dauda! We muu toon!)

Quote from: nanayisha on November 03, 2008, 02:30 PM
You always talk about Jesus Christ, but I put it to you that a lot of you do not exemplify his teachings. I believe a lot of you need to go back to the drawing board.


the quran also talks glibly about Jesus . . . do YOU exemplify his teachings?

What is possible humanly possible in the ordinary daily live of Jesus(AS) and indeed, all the other prophets (AS Jamia) are practiced by many in Islam. So the sunnahs of each of the prophets, if it is not abrogated (since the meat/dairy consumption combination, still practiced by the nations of the children of israel, in honor of the hindquarter no-eating imposition was a personal one for Jacob), are practiced by muslims.

So for example, muslim men wear beard, use shawl to cover head, fast like Jesus, or Dauda, etc. Jesus is not the only one muslims emulate and copy! Of course, the acts that are out of the ordinary by each can not beengaged in by muslims. So we can not mode a clay in the shape of a bird and make it fly like Jesus did, for example, because we are not prophets. But Jesus was and each of his miracles was a clear sign about his prophethood, and a direct challenge to the disbelievers of his time to ponder and make good and soul saving decision to follow his guidance. Few deid and many refused because of arrogance.

I have not heard of a christian who have shaped a piece of clay like bird and make it come alive! When you, davidylan can do that let me know.

@Davidylan: « #10 on: November 04, 2008, 09:15 PM »

This is what Nanayisha has to say about salvation in Jesus Christ our Lord

- I am definitely at a lost with this one. If any argue is unconsistent, this is the one.
First it is said that no soul shall carry the burdens of another, then it is said that Jesus died for the Sins of Man.
Please can we go back to logical. I don't understand the ethos of this ideology. If Jesus died for the sins of Man, why do we need to be good. Why do we need to live clean lives.

If anything should come from a religion, it should be consistency.

If i wrote EXACTLY this piece but replaced "Jesus" for Allah, called his quran inconsistent and illogical . . . would nana still accuse me of being insultive?

Just for the heck of it, if you were to replace Jesus with Allah, you will find that you will not find that "verse" consistent with th Qur'an. Or can you show us, from the Qur'an or Sunnah where you read that Allah will or dd die for the sins of man? Or any place where Jesus is compared as equal to Allah in the Qur'an? Please be serious, man.

Ijebu a jeba jewe. lol.

@Pilgrim.1: « #15 on: Yesterday at 10:19:31 AM »

Quote from: nanayisha on November 03, 2008, 01:56 PM
As a Muslim I have to be careful of my response with this post.

Okay, you're a muslim - thanks for throwing in your worries here and not in the muslim section. I have imagined that people who are too gleeful to applaud every idea passed off without weighing their underpinnings would not see that. There are several threads that have been raised about this issue already; but why this one on "The Ignorance of Christians"? On the contrary, Christians are not ignorant - and the OP being a muslim should have known this right out of his quran that Christians are intelligent people!

Okare, Pilgrim. Bee ni tie nri.
Where is the intelligence about Christianity expressed in the Qur'an, which you are using as your source of refernce? The Qur'an used an alegory that the from mankind we have people who could be compared to donkeys. For the donkey may carry a load of books, but not reading "a lickle" (any) of it. Allah says that the brail (noise, sound) of the Donkey/mule is empty.

Since you referred to the Qur'an, I hope you did not miss the Prophetic/Messangership position of Jesus and the Statement of his mission in Surah Safat? I hope you did not miss the statement that Allah does not have a son, and it does not befits His Majesty to do so, and others refuting your Biblical and Christendom claims about Trinity in Surah Mariam and in other places, including Surah Imran, etc?

I hope you saw the commandment by Allah in Surah Zumar where Muhammad (AS) is commanded to say to All mankind That if Alah were to have a child, he Muhammad would have been the first to be commanded to worship that child when Muhammad began his ministry. If any intelligent person looked into this very statement, he/she would not have any difficulty relating it to the first 13 years of Islam, the Makkan period. This period was devoted on a single purpose; the destructions of all forms of descendancy and coequalship of anything, manmade, alive, in heaven, on earth, beneath it, past, present or future, compared to Allah the Almighty God the Creator!

The Arab's many idols, as well as the Christian trinity and the icons of other religions fall into this very single group! They were addressed 100% without any other aspects of Islam being given any attention. Even in Madina, where the legislative part of Islam was formulated, the singular theme of Makkan period was the cetral piece of it. So when Surah Iklas was revealed, it in its 4 or 5 verses, has the same reward as 1/3 of the sum total of the whole Qur'an.

Could we also see you open a thread in fairness and tagged: "The Ignorance of Muslims"?

Please open one. Alot of Muslims, including myself are ignorant. But islam is safeguard from ignorance. There is no inconsistency in Islam.

olabowale:

Please open one. Alot of Muslims, including myself are ignorant. But islam is safeguard from ignorance. There is no inconsistency in Islam.

My rejoinder was to nanayisha; and if you're the only ignorant muslim on the forum, others have seen it several times, which would make it unnecessary to prove the point.

I know you are not ignorant, but just arrogant. Arrogancy is worst. Thats what led Pharaoh to perish. It is the same desease that Satan suffers.

I am not like you. I do not puff up. It is what you did against the Christian when you were a "fake" muslim. The same fakery hasn't left you. Now that you are christian, your problem is compounded by the "Uphoric desease" that plagues Christianity.

Now to my statement: I said being referred to in the Qur'an as "people of the book," does not mean that "you are declared as "intelligent people!" I hope your eyes can read and your "heart" can understand. Although, i have my reservations.

Aburo, your case is strange. I wanna know how being called people of the books simply mean people of intelligent, especially when you call a human being, who "used to eat, used the toilet, and wept, etc," as god, among and in addition to father, and ghost.

Ojoro owo e poju. Moo mo e ton. Pata pata poro godo. Ignorance is what will make a man calls another god and or calls him co-god!

olabowale:

I know you are not ignorant, but just arrogant. Arrogancy is worst. Thats what led Pharaoh to perish. It is the same desease that Satan suffers.

I am not like you. I do not puff up. It is what you did against the Christian when you were a "fake" muslim. The same fakery hasn't left you. Now that you are christian, your problem is compounded by the "Uphoric desease" that plagues Christianity.

Now to my statement: I said being referred to in the Qur'an as "people of the book," does not mean that "you are declared as "intelligent people!" I hope your eyes can read and your "heart" can understand. Although, i have my reservations.

Aburo, your case is strange. I want to know how being called people of the books simply mean people of intelligent, especially when you call a human being, who "used to eat, used the toilet, and wept, etc," as god, among and in addition to father, and ghost.

Ojoro owo e poju. Moo mo e ton. Pata pata poro godo. Ignorance is what will make a man calls another god and or calls him co-god!

My rejoinder was to nanayisha; and if you're the only ignorant muslim on the forum, others have seen it several times, which would make it unnecessary to prove the point.

Pilgrim has become a broken record. She repeats and yet, again, she repeats. Boriiiing. Pele Aburo mi.

olabowale:

Pilgrim has become a broken record. She repeats and yet, again, she repeats. Boriiiing. Pele Aburo mi.

You can insult me how many times you please, but I have just the same message for you:

My rejoinder was to nanayisha; and if you're the only ignorant muslim on the forum,
others have seen it several times, which would make it unnecessary to prove the point.

So far I have really enjoyed reading the responses of the Post. I commend all the constructive responses, it has shown the ability to hold sensible dialogue with some posters (most consistent so far being from cayon).
To the not so constructive responses, I think you have only confirmed the inital post. I did not want to mention names, and it looks like I didn't have to. I guess it is true that a Leopard can not change its spots.

nanayisha:

I guess it is true that a Leopard can not change its spots.

Perhaps should be because you don't see any spot to change in typing "SHAME" in capital letters at others without qualms.

So Pilgrim.1 knew she was that "leopard!" And she couldn't hide a lick of it. Pilgrim ooo. I hope you are enjoying Birmingham, because am sure enjoying NYC! Sometimes at your expenses. But am not glouting. Omo mi sha nie. The reason I respond to you though is my defense of Islam while you try hard to malign it: No place in Qur'an is Christianity honored as "intelligent People" as you wanted to lead us believe yesterday!

nigerians and religion, if only we spend as much time on practical issues instead of praying to some god to solve all our problems, nigeria would be one of the greatest countries on earth. We spend so much time fighting about other peoples religion, forced on us through jihad and colonisation. If we had conquered other people like the Arabs and Europeans did, they would have been worshiping our ogun, shango and obatala. Religion is man made, the Koran and bible were written by humans just like me and u. The reality is every society as a concept of god, but we all have a different way of communicating with him. Man being man wants to impose his will on others because he feels better than the next man. open your eyes, archbishob na milike, popu na enjoyment, imamu na gbaladun. Black race wise up. Western Europe which as the highest standard of living in the world and the kindest and loving people in the world have moved away from religion because they know it only blinds people. Nigeria and Saudi Arabia are one of the most religious countries in the world and yet are one of the most inhuman societies on earth. In Nigeria we are all born again christains or Muslim yet our country is so full of evil. Religion is nothing both a tool to control humans. I hope one day we can make reason and logic our religion like in Scandinavia (denmark, Sweden, norway) Religion as not helped Nigeria progress, instead we are going backwards, if we had any brains we would be putting more energy into science not fairy tales.

olabowale:

So Pilgrim.1 knew she was that "leopard!" And she couldn't hide a lick of it. Pilgrim ooo. I hope you are enjoying Birmingham, because am sure enjoying NYC! Sometimes at your expenses. But am not glouting. Omo mi sha nie. The reason I respond to you though is my defense of Islam while you try hard to malign it: No place in Qur'an is Christianity honored as "intelligent People" as you wanted to lead us believe yesterday!

If you're the only ignorant muslim on the forum, others have seen it several times, which would make it unnecessary to prove the fact.

okunoba:

Western Europe which as the highest standard of living in the world and the kindest and loving people in the world have moved away from religion because they know it only blinds people. Nigeria and Saudi Arabia are one of the most religious countries in the world and yet are one of the most inhuman societies on earth.

You haven't even travelled by the sound of the above. One doesn't need to travel to the Scandinavia before they understand the type of "love" and "kindness" you assume pervades Europe. Bros, you need to go thick into those places and see how they treat BLACKS - especially Denmark! Besides, Europe has not abandoned religion, as you presumed.

Although if considered objectively, and judging by the surface, one might say that the poster has a point. But if you go deeper into it, then one realises that the post is nothing but a subtle way of insulting Christians and condemning them. Consider these facts:

1) The poster is a muslim, modesty should have made him direct his admonition to everybody in nairaland, including muslims. Granted that there are poeple who behave like animals in this forum, but I have seen them in all religions: -Christians, Muslims, and etc. Therefore it is unfair to single out Christians. If the posters concern is genuine, perhaps he could have expressed his feelings without naming any particular religion. That would have been the most effective way.

The posters attitude reminds me of the an Hausa saying: Where one danced and was given money, the other danced and received a beating."

2) Muslims have not done better than the Christians in terms behaving rudely. I remember a Muslim went as far a threatening Seun with fatawa! I am not saying that all muslims are bad but the admonition of the poster should not be speared Muslims because perhaps they need it most. Charity begins at home.

3) The Muslims have their own child board now, where they can give vent to their islamisin. The Muslim board was given to them due to their threats on Seun and their complaint against Christians. Now that they have their own board, if they find Christians irritating, why don't they just ignore Christians and stick to the Muslim board. Seun have given them what they wanted, which is separation from the Christains, yet they can't leave mother board alone. They keep coming into the mother board to fight Christians. This is also applicable to some Christains who go to cause trouble in the muslim board. Why linger in the board where you have annoying people, when you have your own board? Reminds of an old Nigerian adage: "the funeral ceremony is over, yet the drummer lingers. Does he want to marry the widow?"

4) Consider the name of this thread. "The ignorance of Christains!" If the poster, who is a Muslim has peace in mind, wouldn't he have chosen a better name for this thread. What would be the Muslims reaction if one starts a thread called the "The ignorance of Muslims." Would Muslims have taken this insult lightly? Considering that their sensitivity once made Seun tamper with everbody's post, changing Islam to "the great religion" so that Muslims would be satisfied.

I do not defend any religion. As a matter of fact, I don't even have a religion. But I hate injustice. It is my duty as one aspiring to be a servant of God, to speak the Truth and expose injustice where ever I find, even if it is not directed against me. I will not be afraid to speak the Truth, neither will I hide to Truth; and the Truth of the matter is that the faults pointed out by the post are not limited to Christains. Perhaps Muslims have the same fault to a far greater extent.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?(mathew 7:3)

Everybody should learn from the issues that the poster raised, including the poster himself. He is wrong to direct it against Christains only.

Thanks

Just so that we can have equality, I have created a parallel thread on the muslim section. Knowing the moderators we have, they will want to lock or delete the thread since it touches on their own religion. See https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-196428.0.html to comment if you like. The contents of that thread are reproduced below.

blissfullynaughty:

When ever I come to nairaland I sometimes come to the religion forum. I like the debates and the topics, I try to contribute whenever I feel I have something significant to say. I try as best as possible not insult anybody because I believe it achieves nothing.

Unfortunately, I can not say the same for a lot of people, especially Muslims.

If I have ever come across a group of people who do not have good etiquette's when holding a debate, I would have to say it is the Muslims all over the world. I don't know wether, it stems from insecurity, or inferiority complex, I feel the only method they use to get there point across is to threaten others who dare to question their religion and polygamist prophet. Unfortunately this problem seems to be consistent with almost ALL groups of Muslims (no names are necessary, I am sure we all know the way they behave - see all the death threats against Salman Rushdie, the Danish Cartoon saga, the destruction in Nigeria that resulted in the cancellation of the Miss World pageant).

It leaves me to think, that there is still so much that Islam does not teach you. You always talk about your Mohammed, but I put it to you that if a great number of you look at his teachings and conclude that he advocated violence and intolerance, you need to jettison your religion and get a better one. At the very least, I believe a lot of you need to go back to the drawing board.

Now, there is an almost identical thread vilifying christains that was posted on the religion childboard by a muslim almost two weeks ago [See https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=190941.msg3037948#msg3037948]. None of the moderators has seen it fit to delete the thread, lock it or ban the person who started the thread. Let us hope that this thread would be accorded the same respect.

NB - To the moderators, it is a well known fact Mukina is a muslim, so do not try to pull the wool over anyones eyes by now locking or deleting that thread so that you can justify locking or deleting this one. Just leave both threads and let the debates rage on.