Yo! People!


I need some help from my evolutionist friends. How do you guys reconcile the 2nd law of thermodynamics with your worldview?

What is your opinion then, of the 2nd law, and how it applies to evolution?

Plaetton. Evil brain.

What do you think about the processes involved in evolution? Do they need a driving force or not?

And if you say evolution drives itself(someone has said that before. Lol. Its quite unreasonable), explain in a nutshell how it does.

Eagerly awaiting your answers.

Grabs front seat 💺

Sunymoore: Grabs front seat í ½í²º

fa-lo-win yhu

If you were serious about seeking an answer you would ask the requisite authorities.

There are scientists who have spent their entire adult lives looking into evolution and have written books on the matter - why not find some of their work instead of asking on the Nairaland Religion Forum.

Evolution is a scientific issue, it is not a question of faith or a personal matter in the vein of religion. lt is very much a question of evidence, proof and other words that will probably frighten you.

Is it your opinon that evolution contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics? How so?
As an aside, why is a discussion on evolution in the religion section? Isn't there a science section on this forum?

mmsen: If you were serious about seeking an answer you would ask the requisite authorities.

There are scientists who have spent their entire adult lives looking into evolution and have written books on the matter - why not find some of their work instead of asking on the Nairaland Religion Forum.

Evolution is a scientific issue, it is a question of faith or a personal matter in the vein of religion it is very much a question of evidence, proof and other words that will probably frighten you.

You should simply say you have no opinion on the matter instead of giving excuses.

sonOfLucifer: Is it your opinon that evolution contradicts the 2nd law of thermodynamics? How so?
As an aside, why is a discussion on evolution in the religion section? Isn't there a science section on this forum?

I want to know your opinion on the matter before I make mine know.

Let's keep asides aside. I'm not the first person opening this kind of topic here. I open it here because the pals I want to have the discussion with congregate here.

Joshthefirst: I want to know your opinion on the matter before I make mine know.

Let's keep asides aside. I'm not the first person opening this kind of topic here. I open it here because the pals I want to have the discussion with congregate here.

I'm trying to avoid a scenario such as this

Joshthefirst: Yo! People!


I need some help from my evolutionist friends. How do you guys reconcile the 2nd law of thermodynamics with your worldview?

What is your opinion then, of the 2nd law, and how it applies to evolution?

Plaetton. Evil brain.

What do you think about the processes involved in evolution? Do they need a driving force or not?

And if you say evolution drives itself(someone has said that before. Lol. Its quite unreasonable), explain in a nutshell how it does.

Eagerly awaiting your answers.

I am certainly not a physicist, and cannot figure out why I need to be one.

But to put it simply in my own little understanding, I would say since everything in existence, every atom, every particle is in motion, then everything is motion-driven to interact. Interactions bring bring temporary and sometimes permanent changes.
So, everything is in a cycle within a cycle within a cycle, .......

Evolution of the universe, the galaxies, the planets, organic life etc are just the manifestations of the different cycles within cycles of cycles.

For example, all living things on earth have a pulse that is part of and modulated our earth's own pulse. The earth's own pulse is also modulated by the pulse of our star, the Sun, which itself is part of the pulse of our galaxy system . And of course, our galaxy system resonates with the pulse of the universe.
In other words, all interactions of matter, all motions, all frequencies in the universe resonate of and with the original energy of the big bang.

So, simply trying to tie in the 2nd law of thermodynamics with with evolution cannot be explained to you in the soft and chewable and kindergarten format that you may wish.

But , do you dispute the fact that species evolve, or is your problem the fact that you don't understand how it happens?

sorry...pls is someone's name really.....sonOfLucifer....?...I must be dreaming

plaetton:

I am certainly not a physicist, and cannot figure out why I need to be one.

But to put it simply in my own little understanding, I would say since everything in existence, every atom, every particle is in motion, then everything is motion-driven to interact. Interactions bring bring temporary and sometimes permanent changes.
So, everything is in a cycle within a cycle within a cycle, .......

Evolution of the universe, the galaxies, the planets, organic life etc are just the manifestations of the different cycles within cycles of cycles.

For example, all living things on earth have a pulse that is part of and modulated our earth's own pulse. The earth's own pulse is also modulated by the pulse of our star, the Sun, which itself is part of the pulse of our galaxy system . And of course, our galaxy system resonates with the pulse of the universe.
In other words, all interactions of matter, all motions, all frequencies in the universe resonate of and with the original energy of the big bang.

So, simply trying to tie in the 2nd law of thermodynamics with with evolution cannot be explained to you in the soft and chewable and kindergarten format that you may wish.

But , do you dispute the fact that species evolve, or is your problem the fact that you don't understand how it happens?

Sorry sir. This is ranting.


The second law states that the universe tends to increasing entropy. Every act of organization and advancement requires directed energy. Energy can only be directed by a director.

That is my stance.

So how does the organization of evolution take place?

Sorry Guys. I apologize for the long time it took to reply.

Been busy lately

Joshthefirst:

Sorry sir. This is ranting.


The second law states that the universe tends to increasing entropy. Every act of organization and advancement requires directed energy. Energy can only be directed by a director.

That is my stance.

So how does the organization of evolution take place?

"Energy can only be directed by a director" ??
Wow!
I am speechless.

I suppose that every process is also directed by a processor?
Lol.
When will evolve beyond this kindergarten level of reasoning.

plaetton:

"Energy can only be directed by a director" ??
Wow!
I am speechless.

I suppose that every process is also directed by a processor?
Lol.
When will evolve beyond this kindergarten level of reasoning.

and when will you choose to address a point instead of argue over words?

You seem to have nothing to offer. If you don't, then move from my path.

Behind every guided process there is a mastermind. Every process that results spontaneously will result in disorganization.

Joshthefirst: and when will you choose to address a point instead of argue over words?

You seem to have nothing to offer. If you don't, then move from my path.

Behind every guided process there is a mastermind. Every process that results spontaneously will result in disorganization.

This is the general problem with you guys..
How can you say you want to have a discussion on a scientific subject matter , and the first you do is to introduce magic, superstition and myth into it.
When you do that, how exactly do you expect us to react than to mock you?

"A directed process must have director" is a silly proposition that does not belong anywhere close to a scientific argument.

plaetton:
This is the general problem with you guys..
How can you say you want to have a discussion on a scientific subject matter , and the first you do is to introduce magic, superstition and myth into it.
When you do that, how exactly do you expect us to react than to mock you?

"A directed process must have director" is a silly proposition that does not belong anywhere close to a scientific argument.

OK.

Answer my question without dodging:

Does evolution lead to an increase in entropy?

Joshthefirst: OK.

Answer my question without dodging:

Does evolution lead to an increase in entropy?

Define entropy in your own words.

plaetton:

Define entropy in your own words.

A measure of randomness or Chaos. A measure of the tendency of a system to degrade or randomize over time.

plaetton:
This is the general problem with you guys..
How can you say you want to have a discussion on a scientific subject matter , and the first you do is to introduce magic, superstition and myth into it.
When you do that, how exactly do you expect us to react than to mock you?

"A directed process must have director" is a silly proposition that does not belong anywhere close to a scientific argument.

With all due respect sir, your scientific theory is more complicated than magic, religious superstition and mythology as you assumed,

If we are to agree that we all evolved then you must be able to articulate with accuracy....and in series.. Which organisms first and which is last for now.
There is another one that baffles me, after man what else are we expecting to evolve?.

Sir, pls clear my doubt.

urheme:


With all due respect sir, your scientific theory is more complicated than magic, religious superstition and mythology as you assumed,

If we are to agree that we all evolved then you must be able to articulate with accuracy....and in series.. Which organisms first and which is last for now.
There is another one that baffles me, after man what else are we expecting to evolve?.

Sir, pls clear my doubt.

First sir,
Go to school, go to a bookstore, or spend some time at a library.
Get educated on something before you argue against it.
And, it is not anyone's responsibility to educate you on any issue.
You cannot thrust yourself into an argument, and the ask that your opponent educate you on what you are supposedly arguing against. That is silly.

There are tons and tons of material on the A-Z ofevolution for any sincere student.

It is not my job to clear any doubts you have. I have no stakes and no interests on whether you remain ignorant or not.

joshthefirst please define what you understand the 2nd law to be and please be very clear on all the terms you use.....
By the way are you a creationist?

plaetton:

First sir,
Go to school, go to a bookstore, or spend some time at a library.
Get educated on something before you argue against it.
And, it is not anyone's responsibility to educate you on any issue.
You cannot thrust yourself into an argument, and the ask that your opponent educate you on what you are supposedly arguing against. That is silly.

There are tons and tons of material on the A-Z ofevolution for any sincere student.

It is not my job to clear any doubts you have. I have no stakes and no interests on whether you remain ignorant or not.

In as much as i believe in science i still submit that evolution is a bogus theory, its proponents are either wrong or crazy.

One man's ingnorance can affect the whole world, we are still evolving if i can remember, and with this practical experience, you are still refering me books when i should be seeing snakes turn in to lions.

You lie!!!!

kinging247: sorry...pls is someone's name really.....sonOfLucifer....?...I must be dreaming

Lucifer...son of the morning star
Beautiful name and wonder personality the Bible character has

urheme:

In as much as i believe in science i still submit that evolution is a bogus theory, its proponents are either wrong or crazy.

One man's ingnorance can affect the whole world, we are still evolving if i can remember, and with this practical experience, you are still refering me books when i should be seeing snakes turn in to lions.

You lie!!!!

I think with the bold it's best you are left to your idiocy and ignorance
You know absolutely nothing about evolution yet you call it crazy and bogus...talk about irony

urheme:

In as much as i believe in science i still submit that evolution is a bogus theory, its proponents are either wrong or crazy.

One man's ingnorance can affect the whole world, we are still evolving if i can remember, and with this practical experience, you are still refering me books when i should be seeing snakes turn in to lions.

You lie!!!!

Again, your problem is that you are a product of a system that expects you to believe this or believe that.
You still do not understand what science is all about. It is not a belief system where you choose to believe or choose not to believe. The world moves on.
For example, whether you believe in PlancK's equations and theory of cosmological constants or not, men like yourself are building rockets and traveling to space based on those theories, whereas, someone like you is waiting to be magically raptured into the same space.

If you approach evolution from the irrational position of religious faith, I don't see how you could ever understand it. It has withstood 150 years of rigorous testing and scrutiny. It has blindly and successfully predicted many outcomes in modern biology and genetics.

So, in this case, your ignorance is fine with the universe.

Joshthefirst:

Sorry sir. This is ranting.


The second law states that the universe tends to increasing entropy. Every act of organization and advancement requires directed energy. Energy can only be directed by a director.

That is my stance.

So how does the organization of evolution take place?

energy needs a director? Explain

macof:

I think with the bold it's best you are left to your idiocy and ignorance
You know absolutely nothing about evolution yet you call it crazy and bogus...talk about irony

Macof.... You are full of shit, enter your shrine make you kala ur mamu.

plaetton:

Again, your problem is that you are a product of a system that expects you to believe this or believe that.
You still do not understand what science is all about. It is not a belief system where you choose to believe or choose not to believe. The world moves on.
For example, whether you believe in PlancK's equations and theory of cosmological constants or not, men like yourself are building rockets and traveling to space based on those theories, whereas, someone like you is waiting to be magically raptured into the same space.

If you approach evolution from the irrational position of religious faith, I don't see how you could ever understand it. It has withstood 150 years of rigorous testing and scrutiny. It has blindly and successfully predicted many outcomes in modern biology and genetics.

So, in this case, your ignorance is fine with the universe.

I am not arguing base on a belief system, am only criticising one aspect of their scientific theories..... Evolution is not credible at all, i don't want to use the word inconclusive.. It is a big fallacy.
Apart from evolution, all other aspect of science i may concur with.

urheme:

Macof.... You are full of shit, enter your shrine make you kala ur mamu.

Face the thread or unfollow

So many science illiterate everywhere using their religion to judge the world

davien: joshthefirst please define what you understand the 2nd law to be and please be very clear on all the terms you use.....
By the way are you a creationist?

I see plaetton has refused to reply me. Maybe you can.


The second law of thermodynamics is the law of increasing entropy.

It states that the universe is always moving towards a greater state of disorder or entropy.
-Anything that happens spontaneously leads to increased entropy
-Processes that result in an increase in organization(a decrease in the 'spreading out' of energy, a decrease in entropy) will always require energy input and ARE NOT SPONTANEOUS.

Note that this law applies to isolated systems, of which earth is not a part. Note also that the term 'disorder' can sometimes be gravely misinterpreted as entropy which is largely used to connote statistics in energy processes and evaluations.

I have no bone to pick, just questions to ask.

I know the earth is not an isolated system, but that is not enough of a justification to me, I still need some issues sorted out.

What drives the evolution process? What causes this seeming 'achievement' of evolution we see in organisms today?

What drives the purpotedly blind process?

One example.

A glass of cold water and hot water are placed close. Heat naturally flows from the hot glass to the cold glass until equilibrium is obtained.

Heat will not spontaneously flow from the cold glass to the hot glass, causing the cold glass to get colder and the hot glass to get hotter. Why?

It is in keeping with the 2nd law.
Natural processes which require energy transfers will always go for the state of increased entropy.

Evolution is claimed to be a natural process, does it result in an increase or decrease in entropy?

Correct any lapses I might have, Thank youm

Joshthefirst post=/post/26823397:
I see plaetton has refused to reply me. Maybe you can.


The second law of thermodynamics is the law of increasing entropy.

It states that the universe is always moving towards a greater state of disorder or entropy.
-Anything that happens spontaneously leads to increased entropy
-Processes that result in an increase in organization(a decrease in the 'spreading out' of energy, a decrease in entropy) will always require energy input and ARE NOT SPONTANEOUS.

Note that this law applies to isolated systems, of which earth is not a part. Note also that the term 'disorder' can sometimes be gravely misinterpreted as entropy which is largely used to connote statistics in energy processes and evaluations.

I have no bone to pick, just questions to ask.

I know the earth is not an isolated system, but that is not enough of a justification to me, I still need some issues sorted out.

What drives the evolution process? What causes this seeming 'achievement' of evolution we see in organisms today?

What drives the purpotedly blind process?

The process of evolution is performed by succesive generations of more successful mutations(beneficial or random) that natural processes favour.....through successful lineages more variations and other factors lead to even more diverse species....although evolution abides by some important laws or theorems...these are;

Dollo's law of irreversibility: Organisms that had inherited new traits cannot de-evolve into their basal forms....even avatisms(re-occurent ancestral features) cannot function as it once did....this is why reverse engineering is so difficult....individual mutations like colour,size,body size etc may fluctuate but the initial way such features were derived cannot be induced...
The meat of all this is that organisms that have acquired entirely new features cannot re-adapt such features to the way they were...and may actually become so specialized at its features that it cannot adapt to new changes..
We can't grow back our tails because they've been absorbed and there is nothing to build up on....
Darwins 2nd law of common ancestry; One branch of life cannot beget a fundamentally different kind(outside its ancestry)....they all belong to their irrespective genetic heirachies and taxonomic states and branch off into new ones....
This is to say a eukaryote will still branch off into a eukaryote(of varied features) that can never be classified outside of its ancestral feature....
This is why humans by taxonomy and definition are still apes(subsets actually)
ALTHOUGH IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO WHY THE ENERGY FOR SUCH A SYSTEM HAS NOT BEEN EXPENDED IT IS THE VERY REASON YOU EAT DAILY....TO PROVIDE IT WITH MORE ENERGY(BIOCHEMICAL POTENTIAL TO BE PRECISE)...
More to come.....busy at the moment...