asalimpo:

how does a being (God) creating a bounded environment with conditions make him a being bounded by conditions too?

2. How does a bounded being - a being limited by conditions - be "at best human"?

3. If the way man reacts is no different than other animals,how come man only of all creation is of unsurpassed intelligence?
Why has the intelligence of other animals not grown over the millenia to near/rival or surpass man's own?
Why havent animals built sky scrapers, space ships, race cars, the internet, computers etc?

Your arguments are very porous.

Apatheist: Davien, you get time.
Just troll and move on.

Apatheist: Davien, you get time.
Just troll and move on.

Apatheist: Davien, you get time.
Just troll and move on.

Apatheist: Davien, you get time.
Just troll and move on.

Apatheist:
How do you fight something that doesn't exist?
Can you fight Santa Claus or the tooth fairy?

Apatheist:
Bill Gates is atheist, Domkop!

alentyno:
Oh really? So why did you have to patiently read a very long essay on something you believe does not exist? Why?

Butthurt Christian alert! Who told you I read the "essay"? Can you read minds now?

Or will you mind sitting down to ask yourself why for pete's sake you spend 90% of your sorry life's time on the 'religion section' of NL?

Wow! you seem to know so much about me, Domkop. maybe you might know I have different handles I use in trolling the different sections.

This your comment just shows how confused and deluded you are. Keep on running for pillar to post.

Benjamin Carson is a christian

Apatheist: Maybe you might know I have different handles I use in trolling the different sections.

MizMyColi:

Apatheist: Butthurt Christian alert! Who told you I read the "essay"? Can you read minds now?

Wow! you seem to know so much about me, Domkop. maybe you might know I have different handles I use in trolling the different sections.

What the Bleep, man?
I wasn't even "talking" to you.
Why are you so insecure?

Why are you telling me?
What do I care?
You don't even know what Ebuka and me were talking about.

Go and scam people of their salaries.

alentyno:
I can't help but laugh. You didn't read the essay and you told the op Jesus would be ashamed of what he wrote? Oh you read the Op's mind bah? Talk about who is reading someone's mind here

Wow never knew you were that jobless.

Insecure? Lol. You can do better than this

I thought you would be smart enough to figure it out. Should have known better

Is that the profession you ventured into ever since you left your priesthood? Wow nice to know

Apatheist:



You said I spent all my online time in the religion board, I told you I have different accounts for different sections, understand?
This handle was made for the religion section.

Yes, insecure. How does NY unbelief affect you?
Why did you quote me in the first place if not for your seeming insecurity?

Isn't that what you Christians do in the name of "tithe"?

alentyno:
Different accounts for different sections?......the ripple effects of joblessness is worse than I imagined

Apatheist: I have my reasons . Call it whatever you wish.




Welp.
I'm dine with you.
Do not quote me again.

Apatheist:

asalimpo:

how does a being (God) creating a bounded environment with conditions make him a being bounded by conditions too?

2. How does a bounded being - a being limited by conditions - be "at best human"?

3. If the way man reacts is no different than other animals,how come man only of all creation is of unsurpassed intelligence?
Why has the intelligence of other animals not grown over the millenia to near/rival or surpass man's own?
Why havent animals built sky scrapers, space ships, race cars, the internet, computers etc?

Your arguments are very porous.

davien: sadly i thought i made this point(the first one) as clear as possible....
Human beings will forever make conditioned tools(unless physical constraints can be shut off)...An architect will need to condition blue-prints of his projects against restraints like gravity...topography etc
An engineer would need to condition a combustion engine against friction and reduce entropy(less useful energy)
A secretary would need to condition his/her employers' appointments to accomodate future events...
Anyone that needs to create something conditioned is working against a restraint so if "god" allegedly created a conditioned universe therefore "god" is working against restraints....this reduces "god" to a human being at best....its just that simple...
"god" by definition of its basic judeo-christian qualities make the universe in a myriad of limitless unconditiobed ways and the universe would still work...not a conditioned one that works within parameters :/


Your last point i believe you misread my statement....i did not claim "man's reaction to the environement is no different than any other animal" i said "basic interactions are found akin(similar) to other mammals" if you studied biology at heart you would have understood that a mammal is a class of animals with similar traits namely being social so i therefore arrived that some basic...note that word please....basic interactions can be found similar to other mammals


"the way we interact is not that different from any other mammal" were my words and your claim of me was "if the way man reacts is no different from other animals"...now you are supposed to be a christian and not lie nor bear false witness nd yet you have broken your mores' ...hypocrisy much :/

Although i made no mention of animals having the same thought capability as humans but merely said humans(being mammals themselves) have similar basic interactions with other mammals i'll answer the silly question you asked it is because they are not as evolved as humans are socially...they still form primitive structures though...but are pale in comparance to ours...that's just it....no "god" tagging...

[b] Now as for ebukasblog regarding the big bang i'll get to it some other time,as for the claim that i just gave the scientific explanation for those phenomenon you are correct...i did...
I gave you the basic current gathered information as of the time of this post
If you are looking for philosophy or philosophical meanings in reality go to religion... If you want to understand reality go to science..

science unlike religion doesn't try to make you feel warm and cared for so if you want to feel special(by claiming you are "sons of god" then you'd be disappointed...science is the only methodology that has been used to understand reality..it is not perfect but it's self-checking and peer-reviewing process limits the amount of wrong information that is accepted...unlike religion were the dogma is even by definition constant...no error-checking in religion...that is why you all feal comfy with it...it doesn't engage any of you in critical thinking and that is why the lay man is okay with it....science is literally on a class of its own...and that is why it must be pursued in earnest... [/b]

I've noticed something in the majority of christians and other theists i've met in this site...science is a big joke to you all....you point to gaps in scientific understanding to justify your ignorance in them and tarry on as though you've made a good point...
Pointing to gaps in scientific understanding will get you nowhere....
Laughing and uttering "stupid scientists!" at notions that were once held as accurate but then debunked by science will also get you nowhere....because it is the methodology itself that self checks if any theory,law,postulate or widely held belief is true or not...
Unknown to you however the very scientific fields you make mediocre were built up by generations of people who shared their knowledge with the world...you spit on the graves of these people as though you yourself shrouded in your religious dogma are better off without their knowledge...

It is for these very reasons that those scientific fields will continue to illude you...

“Hello my children. This is Yahweh, the one true Lord. You have found
creation’s secret. Now share it peacefully with the world.”

KingEbukasBlog:

Hmm ... but most famous people have combined both well . You see dave , you miss understand the concept of God and religion that's why you became an atheist right ? You felt there was not enough evidence to back up the claims of God's existence .

Well Newsflash ! Jesus said in the bible ... If you do not believe in me at least believe my works . I am a christian and I do not see christianity as a religion . I am a testimony of God's work . You see atheism eludes the reality of God's existence . You should rather bother yourself with the his works which is evident in people's lives . So please , answer this few very simple questions in clean English Language for me with an open mind

1. Explain miracles such as the cure of incurable illnesses such as cancer , hiv
2. Yaweh in the DNA

Copied Content :

For Heaven’s Sake



“We knew the patterns weren’t
naturally occurring,” explains Charles Watson, the lead scientist on the
project, “but we couldn’t come up with any convincing explanation for
them.



“On a whim, we started cross
referencing the patterns with language databases,” he explains, “and we
were shocked to find that the patterns corresponded to ancient Aramaic.”

Stunned by its discovery, the team contacted language experts familiar with Aramaic - the language Jesus Christ spoke in daily life.


Entirely decoded, the message reads:



Mr.Dave this a known fact world wide ooo

3. Favour ... Where others fail you pray and succeed

4. When you call on the name of the Lord in truth and in spirit in the times of trouble , He responds
E.g people that were rescued from the hands of ritualists etc

5. The prophesies of war , pestilences and natural disasters in the bible , coming to pass (End time signs )

6 . The promise of Israel to be united as a country in the bible fulfilled ( independence - this happened in 1948 I think)

7. If man evolved from apes ... why do apes still exist ?



Be well detailed please ... Thank You

Now back to your other queries...;

Wow "jesus/god" said to only look into "his" works and believe right?...
Really,it's just that simple Just choose to believe?
NEWSFLASH!
Believing in something is not a choice...no matter how strong you want to believe something it doesn't make it true...an honest man would admit this!

You can't wake up one day and choose to believe you are the president...you'd only be fooling yourself and at best be a liar....because you have evidence against it and even can tell its logic is flawed and yet the fact that you cling on to it makes you a dishonest liar...no two ways about it...

CURED OF HIV/AIDS

WHY ARE THERE STILL APES
Homo sapiens didn't evolve from apes they evolved from generations of ape-like ancestors....apes are merely genetic cousins of that divergence...the same way camels and ilamas share common a ancestor...the same way cats and dogs share common ancestors...the same way a racoon is more related to a dog than you are related to trees...
Genetics do not lie...they are valid enough to warrant a life or death sentence in the court room...that is how reliable they are(if applied correctly)...
So if man shared a common ancestor with the apes what do we expect to find?
We should find the following;
GENETIC EVIDENCE
ANATOMICAL EVIDENCE
TRANSITIONAL FORMS
RE-PURPOSED BIOLOGICAL STRUCTURES A.K.A VESTIGES
RE-OCCURENT ANCIENT FEATURES

davien:
Again i'll try my best to simplify my notions so that you can understand them...
I denounced religion and "god" because with deep research and inquiry i found out that it was completely untrue(with the exception of geographical locations and few accurate historical references) infact christianity has alot of evidences against it being inspired by anything but "god"....
So what to do with this information;


1.Lie to myself in the face of evidence and convince myself that my version of christianity(out of tens of thoudands)was the right one?

2.Be honest and drop the religion to hold a neutral unbelief stance regarding the evidences against it and question my foundations...

3.Be agnostic because of the fact that even though an overwhelming amount of evidence is against it... I stay in it and cling to the "you can't prove a negative approach"(so can the flying sphagetti monster and other things,although strong atheists' do disprove "god" )..

Obviously i chose number 2...it was the most honest choice....


Now back to your other queries...;

Wow "jesus/god" said to only look into "his" works and believe right?...
Really,it's just that simple Just choose to believe?
NEWSFLASH!
Believing in something is not a choice...no matter how strong you want to believe something it doesn't make it true...an honest man would admit this!

You can't wake up one day and choose to believe you are the president...you'd only be fooling yourself and at best be a liar....because you have evidence against it and even can tell its logic is flawed and yet the fact that you cling on to it makes you a dishonest liar...no two ways about it...

And yet again please list out in detail how "god" is evident in peoples lives that isn't the usual...

"oh doctors said he had a 1% chance,he fully recovered therefore "god" or "oh look at that beautiful sunrise...how can chance explain a billion billion photons rising at once if not "god" ?"

And you should really look up the string of anonymous people who wrote... Re-wrote... Translated... And re-translated "the holy bible" and how by popular vote books still referenced in todays bible were clipped away from being in the bible,an example is "the wars of the lord" and the "sayings of the seers" and "an epistle to the laodiceans"...are those the works you want me to take on


EXPLAIN "miracles"...;
Hmmm...miracles the alleged healing of people..
First off....no one has ever been miraculously healed of anything....how do i know this?...lets see;

1.Cancer;
Cancer is the accelerated growth of cells...possiblities for alleged healings include;
RECESSION;
What many people do not know is that cancer goes into a dormant state where it may flare up sometime later on in the persons life...lets pick skin or bowel cancer
And lets say 2 in 10 cancerous growths undergo this recessive stage...
Now 200 people have been diagnosed with skin or bowel cancer and have gone to a "miracle worker" for healing and all have this 2 for 10 statistical probability....in the end no less than 40 may come back claiming the cancer is gone..

LYING
Do not under-estimate religious zealotry,yes people lie...but in this instance it is called faith belief...the belief that proclaiming yourself being healed on the pulpit would actually get the trick done...my own mother(good ol' mom ) did this when she was diagnosed with a lumbar displacement...she had this fixed through an operation apparently...no miracle cure...other than the willful admittance of being cured when you are not...

WRONG DIAGNOSIS
wrong diagnosis puts many people in a negative frame of mind...eventually the diagnosis symptom' start to show even though the person is healthy...i believe this is called the nocebo effect(not sure,google it)...
So when someone has been diagnosed with lets say ulcers then suddenly start getting stomach cramps...only to be relieved through belief in the wrong diagnosis being false then a placebo effect has occured...

CURED OF HIV/AIDS
This is the reason we need well learned science students in nigeria...hiv/aids is a virus.. Not a germ that can be cured... Viruses become part of their host DNA' meaning you are stuck with it and doomed to pass on this to generations to come unless medical procedures intervene...how praying can delete hiv/aids insertions in the genetic code i am willing(seriously speaking) to see...

Overall anyone of the rebuttals above can refer why people claim to be "healed of hiv/aids...from wrong diagnoses to nocebo(again google this,not sure if i remembered this correctly) and placebo effect...

YAHWEH IN THE DNA
you didn't clarify what you were talking about,but luckily for you i have come across this claim.... " DNA SPELLS OUT YAH(jewish for "god" )"
Yes the representation of a DNA molecule strand spells out yah... If the letters Y.. A.. and H were made up of carbon bonds...lol
I fail to see the "proof" in this other than DNA looks like yah- that's just it...

Using your logic....because my pet dog has fur shaped like supermans logo' therefore my dog is krypto(supermans' dog)...

Or again using your logic do we say because DNA being a double helix strand looks like the symbol infinity...therefore "infinitron" did it

THE DECRYPTION OF THE DNA THAT SPELLS OUT YAH HAS A MESSAGE?!
This is a bold faced lie!...i don't even know if i should label it a rumour because atleast rumours have few accurate data to it...there is no DNA molecule with decipherable words in it.... Anyone familiar with binary computations can figure out than you can make any sequence of figures say what you want it to say depending on the configurations you use...

PEOPLE THAT WERE RESCUED FROM RITUALISTS AND FAVOUR

wow,people prayed and were rescued by other people looking for them(who may or may not have also prayed) or rescued by someone or people who just had to be there...."god" did it right
UTTERLY WRONG!
Tell me something...what do you expect to see if they prayed and they weren't rescued by anybody....no testimony! Because they would be dead(or still captured depending on the captors motives)
you can point to a handful of people either returned by their captor,rescued etc but the point still remains that there lies a large number of unreported captives who have never returned....and your "favour" argument goes sour becomes all over 41,000 denominations of christianity and the rest of the worlds religions each with contrasting beliefs all claim "favour" from their versions of "god/gods/goddesses" right down to the days of animism...

WARS,PESTILENCE AND PLAGUES
wow....bible predicts wars and the likes therefore its true?
NOPE!!
It's hardly a prediction when you predict what has always been happening in human existence'....people were fighting wars,pillaging and plagues were rampant thousands of years ago before that "prediction"....namely the mayan empire,the assyrians etc
Should i make a prediction similar to this?

MY PREDICTION;
Men will move to and fro and worry for ends meet...woe will be the man without pace in preparation... [/b]l

[b] JEWS ARE NOW A LEGIT NATION PROPHECY
The jews had this "prophecy" amongst themselves so it isn't surprising to find that they made it come true through generations of many efforts....the same with america where it was "prohecied" amongst themselves to be a great nation....generations of enforcing that will led to it being true....no magic there...

If i were in a tribe and we had this mentality to overtake "our native kingdom" what do you think we'll do if given enough time and favourable permissions permit?...overtake the kingdom...

WHY ARE THERE STILL APES
Homo sapiens didn't evolve from apes they evolved from generations of ape-like ancestors....apes are merely genetic cousins of that divergence...the same way camels and ilamas share common a ancestor...the same way cats and dogs share common ancestors...the same way a racoon is more related to a dog than you are related to trees...
Genetics do not lie...they are valid enough to warrant a life or death sentence in the court room...that is how reliable they are(if applied correctly)...
So if man shared a common ancestor with the apes what do we expect to find?
We should find the following;
GENETIC EVIDENCE
ANATOMICAL EVIDENCE
TRANSITIONAL FORMS
RE-PURPOSED BIOLOGICAL STRUCTURES A.K.A VESTIGES
RE-OCCURENT ANCIENT FEATURES

GENETIC EVIDENCE
We have a 23-pair chromosome and apes have 24...if we share a common ancestor then we should identify a place where either a pair split up or fused into one...either case our genetic code should reflect this...
Wala kingebukasblog it did...a chromosome in humans is the make-up of two ape ones and they fused their telomeres to make one making ours 23...(you can fact check me on this)

ANATOMICAL EVIDENCE
This i believe need no explanation...it is on this bases we even are morphologically all termed as apes..chordates etc

TRANSITIONAL FORMS
transitional forms are creatures that carry intermediate features of two class(aves,reptilia,mammalia etc) of organisms...
They are evident in the fossil record
Examples include;
Tiktaalik(not sure about spelling,fact check me on this)
Archeoptrix(again not sure on spelling)
Just to name a few...go read about them if you want to know more...

Re-purposed biological structures
These are termed as vestiges...a vestige is a structure whose function has changed...
They include;
Tail-bone
Your folded pinna(the outer folds of your ear)
The apendix etc

Re-occuring structures
these are termed as avatism...they are features exclusive to an organisms ancestry that re-appear in the gene-pool(lets keep it simply as family)...note that these features will no longer be fully functional because the organism is no longer capable of retaining that function...
now what do we expect to find if man shared an ape-like ancestor
Examples;
Dysfunctional tails
Excessive hair growth(ape-like hair) etc

WHY "mr dave" puts up woth your questions
I put up with your questions because i was once like you....closed minded to anything but what i grew up with....even if you bear a blind eye to this i did this for that inquisitive mind that is barred under religious dogma and asks these same questions and i also put up with your questions to denote that i do not just make bluff on the topics i discuss....i answered you boldly....now faced with all this information...it's left to you to decide on what to do....fact check me on reliable unbiased sources or keep your dogma and ego high...

KingEbukasBlog:

Lol ... Dave you weren't blind before but you let the obstacles and circumstances that you might have faced ... no offence at all ... It could be

1. Background

2. Your former religion

3. Standard of Living

4. You may not have been opportuned to really have the need of His intervention

The list goes cos i'm tired already (2am)

But 'emmm for me

I come from a Christian background , soiled in christianity , washed in christianity , and spread for all to see . Ive been in tough situations and Ive witnessed divine breakthrough . You see in atheism , your type sees everything from the self perspective . You feel that you have to carve out all by yourself in order to make it . You feel science is the ultimate . You look at things as a human , thats why people who a true and deeply rooted in the Word of God would see your comment and laugh to scorn . But you see , science is the study of nature . Nature was before science and science is used to understand ambiguity of Nature .

Evolution are mere assumptions . No one sat down and gave details of those things . Evolution used sort after evidences in the present to determine the past . (Summary of what you wrote )

As for miracles , every miracle from deadly diseases are lies Come on you are better this ! You are afraid to admit you have no evidence to refute my claims that miracles exist . My friend Ive been in situation where I had no help to come my way , I just said the name Jesus and the storm was calmed . Lemme share a quick one my mum experienced ...

She was in the kitchen and didn't know the gas cylinder was leaking , she tried to lit the gc and suddenly there was fire . She saw how huge it was and was scared . You know gas and how it spreads ,so did the fire in a twinkle of an eye. She was sore afraid , according to her all she screamed was Jesus and the fire went out . Just like that . Why did that happen immediately she called the name Jesus . If she was an atheist , I would have had no mum by now . Maybe she would be staring and the whole fire will engulf her and she would have been burnt to death .

Why would I have this great testimony in my family and lots more and someone would wake up one morning to tell me there's no God

Anyway , time dey go ... see bros ... the bible has hidden mysteries . You read the surface and lack the indept meaning of what you read . There are people that have read books and are deep in christianity . I have felt His presence , grace and lots more . If I am blind , let me die in that "blindless" that turn against someone that created me .

You are on earth guy ... people live , people die . Everyone one ends up in the same place , grave. Trying to overcome what you are not even sure of based on science my guy is dangerous . I shall lemme warn you . Explain spiritual forces , and how they operate . So you even know abt ritualists and what they do with human parts . They do it and become rich overnight . Am sure science explains that to ?? Dont you read incredible stories of people or even witnessed , caught doing evil things like turning into birds , very bad things etc etc . Guy you neva jam , maybe your village people never remember you .
Ive seen things and big scientific names wont deceive me one bit . I am a Computer Scientist , so I am science inclined .

Explain cults , and other things I dont want to mention . Its dangerous not believing . I dont want to open up some personal things to you . Science is good but let it not cloud your sense of judgement and reasoning . You suddenly saw yourself in a world and the so called science can give a definite explaination of things even the disputable creation. Be wise my guy . Those free thinkers you are trying to copy wont lead you anywhere . Be more interested in the mystery whereby you close your eyes in death without knowing what befalls you . Be wise , your own earth , you just found yourself here , you found people here . Why should you listen to people like yourself that just found themselves on earth

Book of Moses , Gospel of Peter even of Judas ... trying peeping into those books (no read am oo , just glance ) your eyes will clear . Earth is a mystery that only God can answer , your fellow humans should not make you regret after . Going deep into science for 70 , 80 years and then what ? You die . What happens after death? Guy be wise Understand life , Am out , am done . Call me blind , shallow minded , dogmatic I dont really care . Experience is the best teacher , its better not to experience it cos you might not be able to tell the story . Be wise .. Peace bro

frank317:

i was really forced to quote you when i read your mum's story. let me tell you, thousand of people have died in bomb blast in the church, millions of christains have died in car accidents and by sicknesses of different kind. what makes the fact that fire didnt engulf your mum special? My mum was a christain and all the calling of the name of Jesus did not rescue her from terminal illness. one thing i hate about you christians is this selfish need to feel special. so many atheists or muslims have lived longer than so many christians. why are you so sure that if your mum was an atheist she would have died in the fire? havent you seen non believers get rescued from dangerous situations before?
You call yourself a christian yet you chose to lie and pretend as if christians are the most favoured on earth. are christians the richest? are they the oldest? are they the healthiest? whats so special about being a christian when above 80 something people could just die easily when a building (House of God) falls while they are worshiping him. my man, you might tell yourself a lot of things but deep down you know the fact, just be careful not to end up living a life of delusion.
anything could have stopped the fire that day in your mums's kitchen, but saying its becasue she shouted Jesus is the most sillyiest, yet please feel cool in believing that. if the name Jesus could save Just like that, trust me, my mum would have been alive today becasue she called that name until her mouth bruised yet no rescue.
look around you my friend, both good and bad happens to everybody... we just attribute different reasons to why things happen to us based on our belief. unfortunately these beliefs are just there to stop us from seeing reality.

Damex333: Wow, now I see your grieve, but I have a question for.
Do u believe GOD exist?

frank317:

hi dammy... long time

you see, i have come to a stage where believing in God does not matter to me. why is this question very important to you? what really do you want to do with the answer? what will change if i say i believe in God? is saying I believe in God for your own Good or mine?

well, right now i honestly dont know the answer to that question and i am not trying hard to find it. my belief in God is open for now, he could exist or not, thats really his business. beliving in his existence changes nothing for me... it will not stop me from dying when the time comes, it will not stop either good or bad thing from happening to me. why is it really important to believe in God? why did you ask me that question?

frank317:

i was really forced to quote you when i read your mum's story. let me tell you, thousand of people have died in bomb blast in the church, millions of christains have died in car accidents and by sicknesses of different kind. what makes the fact that fire didnt engulf your mum special? My mum was a christain and all the calling of the name of Jesus did not rescue her from terminal illness. one thing i hate about you christians is this selfish need to feel special. so many atheists or muslims have lived longer than so many christians. why are you so sure that if your mum was an atheist she would have died in the fire? havent you seen non believers get rescued from dangerous situations before?
You call yourself a christian yet you chose to lie and pretend as if christians are the most favoured on earth. are christians the richest? are they the oldest? are they the healthiest? whats so special about being a christian when above 80 something people could just die easily when a building (House of God) falls while they are worshiping him. my man, you might tell yourself a lot of things but deep down you know the fact, just be careful not to end up living a life of delusion.
anything could have stopped the fire that day in your mums's kitchen, but saying its becasue she shouted Jesus is the most sillyiest, yet please feel cool in believing that. if the name Jesus could save Just like that, trust me, my mum would have been alive today becasue she called that name until her mouth bruised yet no rescue.
look around you my friend, both good and bad happens to everybody... we just attribute different reasons to why things happen to us based on our belief. unfortunately these beliefs are just there to stop us from seeing reality.

Damex333: it explains a lots, It's just explains what brings forth d rant.