malvisguy212: like i said earlier, it a choice. Thank you for your time.

Yes making use of one's brain is a choice. I choose to use my brain

qstar:

Actually, i do not mind the label.



From my current standpoint, you do not understand how silly the Satan concept is. It's multifarious.

You are right! I do not understand.

sonOfLucifer:
I already noted that your premise is faulty. Non-living things are amoral. To be amoral is to have no proclivity to any moral code. To be strict, all morality is viewed from a human angle, as it concerns us.
All I see on this thread is a desperate attempt to absolve the Christian God of any kind of moral responsibility. You claim God can do no wrong, I counter that in the same vein he can do no right. If he's incapable of doing wrong, then he is subject to do right. He MUST do right. And he never had a choice. Therefore, he is amoral. What he does is right.

I will try and say this slowly...

I am not talking about non-living things.

Apatheist: Fair enough.


Explain it to me.

Okay!

Sin is any offence against God. For one to sin a number of factors must be at play. For simplicity, I will only focus on the factor I mentioned earlier, which is being subject to a set of rules or if you like: moral codes.

Humans unlike God are bound by these codes for which our actions are scrutinized. God is not bound by any known rule, hence it is impractical to scrutinize his actions based on the rules that governs us.

Having freewill doesn't in itself mean an individual must sin. A child who is yet to attain the age of reasoning, though has freewill, is incapable of doing 'wrong', even when some of his actions may be wrong. This is also true for cases where the individual cannot demonstrably determine right from wrong no matter the age.

In the case of God however, He is the author of freewill and can choose to do whatever is consistent with His nature but, like I mentioned earlier, he is not bound by any known rule.

A quote from the Bible:

Jeremaih 42:10
For I [God] repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

qstar: Striktlymi, i've known you as an intelligent Christian on this forum. I wonder what you want to achieve with this topic of yours, even as a Christian. This might just be your verge into apostasy.

Personally, albeit an agnostic, i do know that there's no Satan no where, only diverse opinions. As someone tolerant (i observed), i also feel that you should have come to terms with the subjectivity in this world. If an event occurs, and there happen to be eight people present, those eight people will give 8 different versions of how it happened, even in honesty.

Do not get me wrong. I am not trying to say that there is no evil, no. But, evil exists in the realm of perception.
To say that there were/are stipulated formulae/rules (and consequential rewards), will be denying reality. As evidenced by reality, "what works for Mr A, most likely may not work for Mr B."

stop yapping crap.
Evil is definite and objectively ugly.
Rape exists in the *your crap* "realm of perception?
Human traffckg ?
Murder?
Fake drugs tht cause complications?
Slavery?
Inhumane work conditions?
All these ar subjective?
Realm of human perception B.S?

striktlymi:

Okay!

Sin is any offence against God.

God? What about man? Can't I sin against my fellow man?

For one to sin a number of factors must be at play. For simplicity, I will only focus on the factor I mentioned earlier, which is being subject to a set of rules or if you like: moral codes.

Humans unlike God are bound by these codes for which our actions are scrutinized. God is not bound by any known rule, hence it is impractical to scrutinize his actions based on the rules that governs us.

So it is impossible for god to sin? [If so, it's impossible for him to do good]

Having freewill doesn't in itself mean an individual must sin.

Yes, it means you CAN sin. Objects without freewill-- like robots do not have freewill and can't sin.

A child who is yet to attain the age of reasoning, though has freewill, is incapable of doing 'wrong', even when some of his actions may be wrong.

Agreed.

This is also true for cases where the individual cannot demonstrably determine right from wrong no matter the age.

Like in what instance(s)?

In the case of God however, He is the author of freewill and can choose to do whatever is consistent with His nature but, like I mentioned earlier, he is not bound by any known rule.

Does the author of freewill have freewill?
I ask what Socrates asked millennia before:
" "Is the pious
( τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it
pious because it is loved by the gods?"
To paraphrase:
"Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"
http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

qstar:
A quote from the Bible:

Jeremaih 42:10
For I [God] repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

What does this verse mean?

striktlymi:
Okay!

Sin is any offence against God. For one to sin a number of factors must be at play. For simplicity, I will only focus on the factor I mentioned earlier, which is being subject to a set of rules or if you like: moral codes.

Humans unlike God are bound by these codes for which our actions are scrutinized. God is not bound by any known rule, hence it is impractical to scrutinize his actions based on the rules that governs us.

Having freewill doesn't in itself mean an individual must sin. A child who is yet to attain the age of reasoning, though has freewill, is incapable of doing 'wrong', even when some of his actions may be wrong. This is also true for cases where the individual cannot demonstrably determine right from wrong no matter the age.

In the case of God however, He is the author of freewill and can choose to do whatever is consistent with His nature but, like I mentioned earlier, he is not bound by any known rule.

God is bound by certain rules .
You only need to read the bible to see this.
Also,if God had no standards how would his people commit to trusting him?

His rules:

1. He will not lie

2. He will not tempt any1 to do evil

3. He will not lower his standards
e.g the wages of sin is death,
to save mankind from imminent death,He didnt circumvent his word but Jesus died as a sustitute for man.

4. He is no respecter of persons . I.e He isnt biased or partisan in his judgement like man is.
He will listen to the poor man as well as the rich man.

5. His word is his bond
"Heaven and Earth Will pass away but His word will not".

6. He will not allow sin into Heaven
homosxuals, effeminates, armed robbers, all liars, prostitutes etc will have their part in the lake of fire.

7. He has no off hours.
He receives prayer requests 24/7/365.

With these attributes a person can come to God with expectation.
Or know how to deal with Him.

asalimpo:

God is bound by certain rules .
You only need to read the bible to see this.
Also,if God had no standards how would his people commit to trusting him?

His rules:

1. He will not lie

2. He will not tempt any1 to do evil

3. He will not lower his standards
e.g the wages of sin is death,
to save mankind from imminent death,He didnt circumvent his word but Jesus died as a sustitute for man.

4. He is no respecter of persons . I.e He isnt biased or partisan in his judgement like man is.
He will listen to the poor man as well as the rich man.

5. His word is his bond
"Heaven and Earth Will pass away but His word will not".

6. He will not allow sin into Heaven
homosxuals, effeminates, armed robbers, all liars, prostitutes etc will have their part in the lake of fire.

7. He has no off hours.
He receives prayer requests 24/7/365.

With these attributes a person can come to God with expectation.
Or know how to deal with Him.

God is not bound by any rule.

asalimpo:
stop yapping crap.
Evil is definite and objectively ugly.
Rape exists in the *your crap* "realm of perception?
Human traffckg ?
Murder?
Fake drugs tht cause complications?
Slavery?
Inhumane work conditions?
All these ar subjective?
Realm of human perception B.S?

In your opinion, they are all "absolute evil", right?

striktlymi:


God is not bound by any rule.

So he is above the law?

striktlymi:

Angels did have that capacity. If they don't, Lucifer wouldn't have been able to revolt.

God has no capacity for sin. He is not governed by the laws of nature.

Then i will say middle finger to the christian God.

Man created God, therefore he determines it attributes,appearance,thinking,response,activity amongst others. The holy books(bible,quran e.t.c) are written/compiled by who?. The statues,carvings,paintings,symbols of deities that is being worshipped are created by who?. Its hopeless trying to argue against man's fictiön/imagination it will always be in vain

macof:

So he is above the law?

What is law in your usage?

striktlymi:

What is law in your usage?

Law of nature

striktlymi post=/post/26564949:


The purpose of every creature (living and non-living) is first and foremost to do the the bidding of its Creator. From this any other purpose derive its meaning.

striktlymi post=/post/26564949:

It is very possible to carve out one's path and create a whole new purpose different from that for which a creature was made.

You contradict your self, its like saying the purpose this washing machine exist is to wash clothes. But it is possible for it to carve out a new purpose

.

macof:
Law of nature

God is beyond the laws of Nature. Matter of factly, He is the architect of those laws.

pesty100:

You contradict your self, its like saying the purpose this washing machine exist is to wash clothes. But it is possible for it to carve out a new purpose

A washing machine does not have a demonstrable freewill. Even with this limitation, it is possible for the washing machine to malfunction, hence doing what the designer did not intend for it.

striktlymi:

A washing machine does not have a demonstrable freewill. Even with this limitation, it is possible for the washing machine to malfunction, hence doing what the designer did not intend for it.

even the washing machine's designer know his washing machine is not perfect, if you say something's purpose is this, then the thing has no free will if it already has a purpose

pesty100: even the washing machine's designer know his washing machine is not perfect, if you say something's purpose is this, then the thing has no free will if it already has a purpose

You are getting it very confused.

Having a purpose for something doesn't mean it must fulfill the purpose for which it was created.

striktlymi:

You are getting it very confused.

Having a purpose for something doesn't mean it must fulfill the purpose for which it was created.

the nearest we humans have come to creating things with purposes is creating nonliving things, we give them purposes and they have no free will

striktlymi:

God is beyond the laws of Nature. Matter of factly, He is the architect of those laws.

So the Nigerian legislatives are beyond the laws of the nation because the legislative is the architect of those laws?

macof:

So the Nigerian legislatives are beyond the laws of the nation because the legislative is the architect of those laws?

Legislators are not architects of laws as God is the architect of the laws of nature. Legislators act within the confines of rules. They make laws within the confines of the laws of nature. They are mere participants in the grand scheme of things. God is not confined by any law.

striktlymi:


Legislators are not architects of laws as God is the architect of the laws of nature. Legislators act within the confines of rules. They make laws within the confines of the laws of nature. They are mere participants in the grand scheme of things. God is not confined by any law.

wah! are u saying the legislative arm of government is not responsible for making laws, the laws which they must abide to, to keep chaos away.

If that's not wat u saying...then speak in plain terms and stop jumping from one branch to the other

Hi striktlyml pls can u explain in details about the pwc interview stage. Sorry am going off the topic its jst that I saw ur post nd I need more details

pearlzy92:
Hi striktlyml pls can u explain in details about the pwc interview stage. Sorry am going off the topic its jst that I saw ur post nd I need more details

I am about going home now. Will respond to your query when I get home.



PS: I am not sure where I commented on the PwC stuff.

striktlymi:


The topic aim at bringing to the fore one very disturbing trait amongst a cross section of Christians. I have seen very many cases where people choose to shirk responsibility for one or more wrong done by blaming the Devil.

If indeed Satan is to blame for any wrong done then it would give credence to the doctrine: " Once saved, Always saved " where some have this falls notion that they cannot sin even when they do wrong.

*[[1Jn 3:9/KJVLite]]* Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.