LordReed:

Adam and Eve were married.

Genesis 2
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Where's the wedding ceremony?

They should have invited the animals as guest

hifaif:

That is not the point of this thread, sir. The point is that they were without the knowledge to differentiate between good and evil so taking the shortcut to knowledge was not their fault since they could not tell if what they were convinced to do by the serpent was good or evil.

I thought you were seeking for someone to explain it to you? How come you have a "point"?

That aside you are mixing it up. The Bible never says they couldn't distinguish between good and evil. They had a command and they were given the consequences, what is more basic than that for distinguishing between good and evil?

macof:

Where's the wedding ceremony?

They should have invited the animals as guest

LoL! Wedding is not about "ceremony".

hifaif: So why was God so angry?
The first man (before he sinned) seems more like a robot to me. So why did God make a big deal out of it?

He gets angry over the silliest of things . Even Uzzah the Levite that was trying to support the ark from falling was also struck dead by him, so much for a so called merciful God.

@OP
That a so called supreme being gets angry over a fruit or humans are supposedly robots don't even bother me as these are just Jewish myths meant for Jews to guide them.

LordReed:

Unless you are not reading with discernment it is clear in Bible.

1. God gave a command that becomes the basis for their morality because they will be judged on their ability to obey or disobey.

2. If they cannot choose to disobey then there was no point to the exercise and if the fruit was going to give them the ability to choose then they would not have been condemned for it.

. And the LORD God said, "The man has now
become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand
and take also from the tree of life and eat, and
live forever." ( Except you re saying God is lying in this verse)... would God say they knew good and evil if they had morality before hand

LordReed:

Unless you are not reading with discernment it is clear in Bible.

1. God gave a command that becomes the basis for their morality because they will be judged on their ability to obey or disobey.

2. If they cannot choose to disobey then there was no point to the exercise and if the fruit was going to give them the ability to choose then they would not have been condemned for it.

All these are long yarns

Bible made it clear, the tree gives knowledge of good and evil, hence before Adam and Eve ate of it, they had no knowledge of good and evil...they couldn't have known disobeying d bible god was evil

Simple logic, end of discussion not all this twisting of scriptures

LordReed:

I thought you were seeking for someone to explain it to you? How come you have a "point"?

That aside you are mixing it up. The Bible never says they couldn't distinguish between good and evil. They had a command and they were given the consequences, what is more basic than that for distinguishing between good and evil?

More like telling a baby not to pee on the bed. And instead of taking him off the bed, you leave him there. The baby has no guilt, so how would you expect him to obey your command?

The thread has a point but with raised questions that beg for answers.

pesty100: . And the LORD God said, "The man has now
become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand
and take also from the tree of life and eat, and
live forever." ( Except you re saying God is lying in this verse)... God would say they knew good and evil if they had morality before hand

Which is why I said you didn't read my previous post well. They had morality or they would not be punished. What they began to know was not the moral good and evil but about making conclusions about themselves and their environment (what I termed "subjective observation". Are you saying God was unfair in condemning them when they didn't know what they were doing was evil?

macof:


All these are long yarns

Bible made it clear, the tree gives knowledge of good and evil, hence before Adam and Eve ate of it, they had no knowledge of good and evil...they couldn't have known disobeying d bible god was evil

Simple logic, end of discussion not all this twisting of scriptures

Yes long yarns for people like you who are in rush.

LordReed:

Which is why I said you didn't read my previous post well. They had morality or they would not be punished. What they began to know was not the moral good and evil but about making conclusions about themselves and their environment (what I termed "subjective observation". Are you saying God was unfair in condemning them when they didn't know what they were doing was evil?

they were punished because they sinned(disobedience) not because they had morality

LordReed:

Which is why I said you didn't read my previous post well. They had morality or they would not be punished. What they began to know was not the moral good and evil but about making conclusions about themselves and their environment (what I termed "subjective observation". Are you saying God was unfair in condemning them when they didn't know what they were doing was evil?

read my first post on this thread

hifaif:

More like telling a baby not to pee on the bed. And instead of taking him off the bed, you leave him there. The baby has no guilt, so how would you expect him to obey your command?

The thread has a point but with raised questions that beg for answers.

The baby has not built command of his/her "waste disposal systems" that is utterly different from guilt and innocence. Adam and Eve were given a command which they understood. Eve said to the serpent "Yes God said we should not eat" which means she understood and correctly interpreted God's command. Tell me how do you know you shouldn't beat the red light at a traffic stop? The law told you right? You cannot say that it is only after you beat red light that you get to know it is wrong. You know what is "good and evil" about traffic light because the law told you. If you beat it you'll be penalised, you also know that through the law. Same thing with Adam and Eve, they knew the "moral good and evil" because of the commandment God gave them. The knowledge they received from the tree was about making their own commandments for their ownselves which lead them to see their unclothedness as shameful and also led Cain to murder and leads you and I not act in love to our neighbours.

pesty100: they were punished because they sinned(disobedience) not because they had morality

What sir is morality if it is not about obedience and disobedience?

LordReed:

The baby has not built command of his/her "waste disposal systems" that is utterly different from guilt and innocence. Adam and Eve were given a command which they understood. Eve said to the serpent "Yes God said we should not eat" which means she understood and correctly interpreted God's command. Tell me how do you know you shouldn't beat the red light at a traffic stop? The law told you right? You cannot say that it is only after you beat red light that you get to know it is wrong. You know what is "good and evil" about traffic light because the law told you. If you beat it you'll be penalised, you also know that through the law. Same thing with Adam and Eve, they knew the "moral good and evil" because of the commandment God gave them. The knowledge they received from the tree was about making their own commandments for their ownselves which lead them to see their unclothedness as shameful and also led Cain to murder and leads you and I not act in love to our neighbours.

OK, put a fruit beside a baby and tell him not to touch it. You will take his touching it as disobedience right?

pesty100:
The christian had to have an explanation to make us all feel guilty so that we can give them(the church) our money and so that they will be able to control our lives...
Its as simple as it look: its all a big lie 6000 years in the making

Your first post is also just as misleading. The purpose is not to give anybody control of your life but for you to make the right choices as you live your life.

hifaif:

OK, put a fruit beside a baby and tell him not to touch it. You will take his touching it as disobedience right?

I won't give such a command to a six month old possibly not even to a one year old.

LordReed:

I won't give such a command to a six month old possibly not even to a one year old.

Why? What is the difference between Adam (before he ate the fruit) and a six month old baby?

LordReed:

What sir is morality if it is not about obedience and disobedience?

is the differenciation btw right and wrong... Which adam and eve knew after eating the fruit (like in the case of their unclothedness)

macof:

Where's the wedding ceremony?

They should have invited the animals as guest

marriages don't need celebrations to be valid, there re people who do marriages lowkey, so this is wrong, the Christians believe God makes weddings valid...in adam and eve's case you should be able to fill in the gap now

LordReed:

The baby has not built command of his/her "waste disposal systems" that is utterly different from guilt and innocence. Adam and Eve were given a command which they understood. Eve said to the serpent "Yes God said we should not eat" which means she understood and correctly interpreted God's command. Tell me how do you know you shouldn't beat the red light at a traffic stop? The law told you right? You cannot say that it is only after you beat red light that you get to know it is wrong. You know what is "good and evil" about traffic light because the law told you. If you beat it you'll be penalised, you also know that through the law. Same thing with Adam and Eve, they knew the "moral good and evil" because of the commandment God gave them. The knowledge they received from the tree was about making their own commandments for their ownselves which lead them to see their unclothedness as shameful and also led Cain to murder and leads you and I not act in love to our neighbours.

Your analogy also does not fit. You can't compare an innocent Adam disobeying (mark the words: Innocent and Disobey) with a corrupt human breaking a traffic rule.

LordReed:

The good and evil referenced there is not the same good and evil of morality. For instance one effect of eating the fruit was their sudden "awareness" of their unclothedness and even God asks them "who told you you are naked?". Their eyes are opened to things that should not have been problems to them, they lost the innocence of children and have to begin to discern everything for themselves and most times their discernment is wrong because they no longer have the benefit of the wisdom of God. The moral good and evil was already with them as they had a commandment not to eat the fruit. The tempter did not change their ability to obey, he just gave them a "reason" to disobey.

How many times have you had to tell a kid not to touch that thing, but he still does anyway? This story is flawed.

hifaif:

Why? What is the difference between Adam (before he ate the fruit) and a six month old baby?

Can a six month old baby name all the items in hs/her room? Can a six month old baby have a conversation with you?

BodyKiss:

How many times have you had to tell a kid not to touch that thing, but he still does anyway? This story is flawed.

Adam was not a kid.

LordReed:

I thought you were seeking for someone to explain it to you? How come you have a "point"?

That aside you are mixing it up. The Bible never says they couldn't distinguish between good and evil. They had a command and they were given the consequences, what is more basic than that for distinguishing between good and evil?

And the LORD God said, "The man
has now
become like one of us, knowing good and
evil.
He must not be allowed to reach out his
hand
and take also from the tree of life and eat,
and
live forever." (How clear can this be)

pesty100: is the differenciation btw right and wrong... Which adam and eve knew after eating the fruit (like in the case of their unclothedness)

So was eating the fruit wrong?

LordReed:

So was eating the fruit wrong?

I don't think the story is true, but I don't see anything wrong in eating the fruit

hifaif:

Your analogy also does not fit. You can't compare an innocent Adam disobeying (mark the words: Innocent and Disobey) with a corrupt human breaking a traffic rule.

Analogies are not supposed to be a one on one fit. I am not comparing the Adam with modern man, I am comparing knowledge of the law. Adam was given a law which gave him knowledge of what is "morally good and evil" just as the traffic law gives you knowledge of what is "good and evil" about traffic lights.

I will keep pointing you to God's response to Adam saying "I am naked", God says "Who told you...".

pesty100: I don't think the story is true, but I don't see anything wrong in eating the fruit

I wonder how come you want to interpret something that you don't consider true.

LordReed:

Adam was not a kid.

LordReed:

The good and evil referenced there is not the same good and evil of morality. For instance one effect of eating the fruit was their sudden "awareness" of their unclothedness and even God asks them "who told you you are naked?". Their eyes are opened to things that should not have been problems to them, they lost the innocence of children and have to begin to discern everything for themselves and most times their discernment is wrong because they no longer have the benefit of the wisdom of God. The moral good and evil was already with them as they had a commandment not to eat the fruit. The tempter did not change their ability to obey, he just gave them a "reason" to disobey.

You gave the impression they were kids in grown-up body.

LordReed:

I wonder how come you want to interpret something that you don't consider true.

at least we were told tortoise story as kids to learn lessons from them

BodyKiss:



You gave the impression they were kids in grown-up body.

the guy just contradicts himself

LordReed:

Can a six month old baby name all the items in hs/her room? Can a six month old baby have a conversation with you?

You failed to see the metaphor. You yourself said prior to eating the fruit, Adam was innocent (had and felt no guilt which comes from having the knowledge of good and evil).