udatso:

i have read the op and its really not worth replying to. different words and personality of certain people mean different things for both faiths(Islam and Christianity ). for example when you call jesus (pbuh), as a muslim i see a prophet and messenger of Allah but a christian on the other hand sees a God. how can you go to the quran and quote verses to prove that in islam only Allah deserves the title Lord and then you go to the bible to quote verses where david and elizabeth addresses jesus as lord and then conclude that with respect to the bible the quran proves or shows that jesus was worshipped as God. Are you insane? Give us evidence where the quran shows that they did. Atleast let there be some level of maturity in your lies if you cant stop it. The fact that you are trying to force your teachings into a different faith from yours is not only dubious but mischievous. sam shamoun who has earned himself a status of international liar always comes up with distorted and spurious claims and i thought by now you guys should have learnt that his nefarious acts should be totally ignored

Abdulsalam20:
malvisguy212 and emusan where are you i expect you to stand on your claim that muslim are antichrist and emusan you have believe now that begotten is a fabrication let me tell you religion should nt be something you practice because you are born in it it should be what u practice because u consider it a way pls come and prove me wrong that christian are not antichrist

let me tell you religion should nt be something you practice because you are born in it, it should be what u practice [size=14pt]because u consider it a way[/size]

Emusan:



You think by avoiding your post I ran away or I was defeated, if you can spent your whole day on NLand I can't because many things need to be done.

Secondly, since you've joined Nland I thought your power of comprehension suppose to have increased BUT IT SHAMEFUL that it doesn't.

After I took my time to tell you the reason why KJV MIGHT have used the WORD BEGOTTEN you can still post it again that THE WORD BEGOTTEN wasn't appeared in the manuscript quoting Greek language as if you can point it out or interpret it.

Did I claim that BEGOTTEN appeared in the manuscript?

For the last time, the word that appeared in the original manuscript that KJV rendered as "Only begotten son" is MONOGENES which have many meaning i.e sole descent, ONE OF HIS KIND, UNIQUE e.t.c and I said KJV version might use BEGOTTEN as an emphasis of ONE OF HIS KIND (I hope you do know the meaning of ONE OF HIS KIND?) WHILE the Version like RSV goes for just ONLY and another 50eminent scholars of NIV can also accuse RSV as not proper rendering of the word MONOGENES because NIV chooses better meaning "ONE AND ONLY SON"


Finally this particular thing also happened in QURAN but because you've been brainwashed you won't see it in Qur'an but only Bible..




In fact the BOLDED of your statement is so ludicrous because if CONSIDERING A RELIGION as a way that makes people practice a religion THEN THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN KNOW THE TRUE RELIGION because anybody can compose a book and claim it's from God.

The different between you and I is that The True God of the universe who created Adam, spoke to all the Prophets and sent His Only Son for remission of sin has revealed Himself to me WHEREAS YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ALLAH and if you read OT you'll see the God who spoke to All Prophet always reveals Himself to people.

The questions you need to ask yourself are;
*Why Muslims don't have personal encounter with Allah?
*Does it mean that after Muhammad and Qur'an God ceased to reveal WHEREAS Jesus says in John 14:23 That He and His Father will reveal themselves to whosoever love Him?
*Both the OT and NEW Testament have verse(s) where God reveals Himself to Prophets and their servants but Qur'an is exceptional, Why? because Nowhere in the Quran or Hadith that record any Muhammad's companions to receive revelation from Allah for over 20years of Muhammad prophet hood.
*If Allah didn't reveal himself to Muhammad through Jibril as Muhammad claimed, how will Muhammad know that Allah exists?

You might have heard many TESTIMONY of Christian having personal encounter with God and discard it BUT IT'S TRUE because God has revealed Himself to me too.



Shalom!

Emusan:



You think by avoiding your post I ran away or I was defeated, if you can spent your whole day on NLand I can't because many things need to be done.

Secondly, since you've joined Nland I thought your power of comprehension suppose to have increased BUT IT SHAMEFUL that it doesn't.

After I took my time to tell you the reason why KJV MIGHT have used the WORD BEGOTTEN you can still post it again that THE WORD BEGOTTEN wasn't appeared in the manuscript quoting Greek language as if you can point it out or interpret it.

Did I claim that BEGOTTEN appeared in the manuscript?

For the last time, the word that appeared in the original manuscript that KJV rendered as "Only begotten son" is MONOGENES which have many meaning i.e sole descent, ONE OF HIS KIND, UNIQUE e.t.c and I said KJV version might use BEGOTTEN as an emphasis of ONE OF HIS KIND (I hope you do know the meaning of ONE OF HIS KIND?) WHILE the Version like RSV goes for just ONLY and another 50eminent scholars of NIV can also accuse RSV as not proper rendering of the word MONOGENES because NIV chooses better meaning "ONE AND ONLY SON"


Finally this particular thing also happened in QURAN but because you've been brainwashed you won't see it in Qur'an but only Bible..




In fact the BOLDED of your statement is so ludicrous because if CONSIDERING A RELIGION as a way that makes people practice a religion THEN THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN KNOW THE TRUE RELIGION because anybody can compose a book and claim it's from God.

The different between you and I is that The True God of the universe who created Adam, spoke to all the Prophets and sent His Only Son for remission of sin has revealed Himself to me WHEREAS YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ALLAH and if you read OT you'll see the God who spoke to All Prophet always reveals Himself to people.

The questions you need to ask yourself are;
*Why Muslims don't have personal encounter with Allah?
*Does it mean that after Muhammad and Qur'an God ceased to reveal WHEREAS Jesus says in John 14:23 That He and His Father will reveal themselves to whosoever love Him?
*Both the OT and NEW Testament have verse(s) where God reveals Himself to Prophets and their servants but Qur'an is exceptional, Why? because Nowhere in the Quran or Hadith that record any Muhammad's companions to receive revelation from Allah for over 20years of Muhammad prophet hood.
*If Allah didn't reveal himself to Muhammad through Jibril as Muhammad claimed, how will Muhammad know that Allah exists?

You might have heard many TESTIMONY of Christian having personal encounter with God and discard it BUT IT'S TRUE because God has revealed Himself to me too.



Shalom!

malvisguy212:
in the biblical and quranic account of the virgin birth,it was the same encounter mary and the angel gabriel had,the same verse in the bible jesus was called the son of God.in the quran,it was the same encounter jesus was called word and spirit of God.how do you explain this?

This is prove that muhammad read the christian bible but dont understand the teaching.do you think a man who is soo much into paganism can be a prophet of God?even paul who is filled by the holy spirit,we do not regard him as a prophet.even in his allegdly calling in the cave of hira,he was convince that a demon has possesed him until his wife kadijah,a BUSINESS WOMAN told him it was and angel.I STRONGLY BELIEVE,THE WAY SATAN USE AND DECEIVE THE FIRST WOMAN EVE AND SINK OUR FOUNDATION,THAT IS HOW SATAN WANT TO USE KADIJAH,MUHAMMAD WIFE TO SINK OUR NEW FOUNDATION IN CHRIST JESUS.BECAUSE WHY AFTER 600YEARS AFTER THE PROMIES HAS BEEN FULLFILLED,GOD SEND SOME ONE WITH A DIFFERENCE MESSAGE?

The devil is a lier ,his trick has been exposed in jesus name.amen.

Emusan:




You might have heard many TESTIMONY of Christian having personal encounter with God and discard it BUT IT'S TRUE because God has revealed Himself to me too.



Shalom!

Emusan:



*Does it mean that after Muhammad and Qur'an God ceased to reveal
WHEREAS Jesus says in John 14:23 That He and His Father will reveal
themselves to whosoever love Him?

Shalom!

Emusan:



*Does it mean that after Muhammad and Qur'an God ceased to reveal
WHEREAS Jesus says in John 14:23 That He and His Father will reveal
themselves to whosoever love Him?

Shalom!

Emusan:



The different between you and I is that The True God of the universe who
created Adam, spoke to all the Prophets and sent His Only Son for remission
of sin has revealed Himself to me WHEREAS YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO
Allah and if you read OT you'll see the God who spoke to All Prophet always
reveals Himself to people.


Shalom!

davien:
In your quote mining you sneakily left out most of the texts,which is:

" O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah."

BraveGuy:


If the op is not worth replying to, then why did not ignore it, but still went ahead to make your rubbish comments ... ... ... do you think at all? If you don't want me to start quoting all those satanic verses from your quoran, shut up!

BraveGuy:


Which of your so-called scholars have been bold enough to challenge Sam Shamoun in a debate? They are always running all over the place, making spurious claims that betray nothing but different degrees of inferiority complexes.

BraveGuy:



When did your Quran's Allah become equal with the Almighty God?

Emusan:



I've prepared answer to your question [s] but I still want you to swallow up the word 'morons' in your first post because you can't expect a MAN LIKE me to reply to a post that the author lacks public morality. [/s]

Rilwayne001: This is what the Quran says
Quran 5:72 Indeed, they have disbelieved who say, "Behold, God is the Christ, son of Mary" - seeing that the Christ [himself] said, "O children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer."" Behold, whoever ascribes divinity to any being beside God, unto him will God deny paradise, and his abode shall be the fire: and such evildoers will have none to aid them.

Truly Jesus said the above in the bible.

MARK 12:29-34 — And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; [size=15pt]The Lord OUR God is ONE LORD: [/size] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him……………"

Only a blind man will not see the ONE LORD in the verse above.

UNTIL ANY ONE OF YOU CAN PROVE TO ME THAT JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF HERE. ELSE YOU ARE ALL RETARDED INCLUDING THE OP

Emusan:

Had it been you pay close attention to my posts you would’ve seen that I didn’t abuse any one you held in high esteem BUT you and your brother sometimes misunderstand my point AND WHEN I notice this I apologised even though I didn’t stress myself to clear the misunderstanding.

Emusan:
But now that you’ve made yourself clear this is my respond to your question.

Emusan:
In fact the first underline statement is a false accusation against Christianity because nowhere Christian ever say ’God is the Christ’

Emusan:
it means Jesus also comprises of both the Father and Holyspirit

Emusan:
what Christianity claim is that ’Jesus is the Son of God and God’-which means He possesses All the attribute of God through His Father.

Emusan:
You might be confused about the word ‘GOD’ I’m using here but the God here can be in form of a Title like King (Recently even the Pagans have started using capital G for any deity they believe in).

Emusan:
"O children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer." & The Lord OUR God is ONE LORD
Next time your statement should read like, Truly Jesus said a SIMILAR THING like the above in the bible because these two statements aren’t the same.

As you rightly said Jesus wasn’t talked about Himself here BUT about the UNITY of God Jesus quotes directly from the book of Deu 6:4-5.

Here let me digress a little for Bible Study!
The whole Chapter 6 of Deuteronomy was given to Israelite as commandments they must follow when they enter the PROMISE LAND ”... that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it; verse1

For the sake of space and to avoid long text SEEKER OF TRUTH can read the whole Deu 6.

The reason why these commandments came is for them to FEAR GOD and not to lost after any Pagan gods/ TO SERVE ANOTHER god BESIDE YAHWEY in the LAND they are going, this reason is very clear when we read verse 13-14 ”13 You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him, and swear by his name. 14 You shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the peoples who are round about you;

The evident of Moses speaking ONLY about the UNITY of God rather than the NATURE of Yahweh can be seen from the Book of Genesis which Moses himself wrote: ”Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;” Gen 19:24
One LORD who was present at Sodom and Gomorrah rained FIRE from ANOTHER LORD who was in heaven.
For Moses to identify two separate Lord here it means Moses fully aware of Multi-personal being of YAHWEH before he wrote the book of Deuteronomy.

The evident of Moses speaking ONLY about the UNITY of God rather than the NATURE of Yahweh can be seen from the Book of Genesis which Moses himself wrote: ”Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;” Gen 19:24
One LORD who was present at Sodom and Gomorrah rained FIRE from ANOTHER LORD who was in heaven.
For Moses to identify two separate Lord here it means Moses fully aware of Multi-personal being of YAHWEH before he wrote the book of Deuteronomy.

While in the book of Mark, the reason why Jesus alluded to Deuteronomy is because of the trap they’re trying to set for Jesus Mark 12:13 “And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to entrap him in his talk.

If you read this chapter from verse 13 downward you’ll see how they ask Him different questions, so what Jesus did is to remind them about the commandment on God’s unity

With the foregoing in mind I’ll now turn to your question by holding unto this statement of yours ”Truly Jesus said the above in the bible” for you to say this it means you believe these are actually true word of historical Jesus, so I’m going to use the same book of Mark chapter 12 to answer your question.

Let me start first from verse 1-8 HYPERLINK "" "He then began to speak to them in parables: 'A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. [size=14pt]He had one left to send, A SON, WHOM HE LOVED. He sent him last of all, saying, ‘They will respect MY SON.’ But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is THE HEIR.[/size] Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard." Mark 12:1-8 NIV
The Hebrew Scriptures identify these servants as God's prophets who were sent to the nation of Israel: "From the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt to this day, I have persistently sent all my servants the prophets to them, day after day." Jeremiah 7:25

These verses are so rich for two reasons:
1) The SON here exists somewhere else before He was sent.
2) With this phrase ”... He sent him last of all,...” it means Jesus is the cumulative of all Prophets (Servants) and distinguished Himself (since He is God's beloved Son and Heir) from all the Prophets.

Remember Quran denied the Sonship of Jesus Christ.

Lastly, had it been that Muslims who always raise this question can a little bit be SINCERE to themselves they would’ve found answer to their problem few verses next to the one they take out of context.

Again: "While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, 'How is it that the teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared: [size=14pt]"The Lord said to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet. '"David himself calls him "Lord."[/size] How then can he be his son?'" Mark 12:35-37 NIV
The Lord Jesus, in this citation, refers to all three Persons of the Trinity. [b]The Lord Jesus indicates that David, speaking by the Holy Spirit, called the Messiah/Christ his Lord which implies that the Messiah is more exalted and greater than David. When we combine this statement of Christ with what he said earlier in Mark 12:29 regarding there being one Lord, then it becomes quite evident that Jesus claimed Deity.

Notice why this must be the case:
*There is one Lord, namely Yahweh God.
*The Christ is Lord.
*Therefore, the Christ is Yahweh God.

But at the same time David refers to two distinct entities as Lord, which means that God exists in more than one Person:
*There is one Lord, namely Yahweh God.
*David speaks of two distinct entities as Lord.
*This, therefore, shows that Yahweh God is a multi-personal Being.

Further support that David was calling the Messiah Lord in the sense of his being God can be gathered from the fact that, at the time of the Psalm's composition, there was no one greater than David. Read Psalms 89:19-20, 26-27, 1 Chro 29:20-25.

Back to Deuteronomy it means for David to talk about two separate Lord, he fully aware of the written of Deuteronomy YET he can see the Christ as his Lord.

In conclusion both Deuteronomy and Mark are talking about God’s UNITY not God’s nature.
Mind you TRINITY simply means Tri(Three)-in-UNITY, that is ‘Three NATURE of God in ONE UNIT’.

I hope you can reason with the Op now?

You might want to reject this by saying Mark 12:35-37 are corrupted parts of the Bible then don’t forget that this is just a citation from OT book Psalms 110:1 just as the very one you believe are also a citation of Deuteronomy 6:4-5

Shalom! All Bible quotations are from Revised Standard
Version unless otherwise noted.

If Almighty God is All knowing: Jesus isn't, he said so himself-Matthew 24:36-" but of that day and hour knoweth no man,not the angels of heaven, but MY FATHER ONLY".

What did Jesus say in Mark 10:18//Matt 19:17-" Why calleth thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God...."[KJV]

Rilwayne001:
All these your long epistles and throwing of scriptures anyhow does/have not address/answer my question at all, you just keep throwing yourseld into troubles/contradictions shooting yourself in the leg.

I will address your quote one after the other for my chatbox cannot contain them at once been the fact that am using my phone.

Hmmm... I don't need to go back to this or take it as an excuse, But you know in your mind that you are telling a lie here …

Ok. what took you so long before

Hmmm...another dimension

Is'nt this ^^what xtianity claim

in the Book of Psalms "I will declare the decree: the LORD HATH SAID UNTO ME, THOU ART MY SON; THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE" Psalms 2:7

Which meams David is a god as well, abi

Okay! with the bolded are you affirming that Jesus is not God almighty himself

Ok sir, now let’s go to the major discussion.

Rilwayne001:

If he was'nt talking about himself here as ONE AND ONLY LORD , then who was he talking about if truly he is the one and only Lord.

If he was talking about the Unity of God why did'nt he mention himself to make the explanation clearer to the pharisees.

Do you know more than Jesus that you want explains in a way that is against what was written in that passage

NOW THEIR ARE MANY POINTS TO NOTE IN THE VERSE ABOVE:

These are the verses you quoted Mark 12:29-34, I removed them to avoid long text.

* They affirm that Jesus been Master (in scripture understanding) as said the truth about the scripture, that there is ONE GOD and there is no other god but HE (notice the HE in red letter) [any honest person that read this verse will affirm that the HE does not include jesus.

Therefore, Jesus doesnt share in the divinity of God almighty]. Now did Jesus correct this man about it i.e to uphold trinity( that he shared in the diviinity?)

* No, jesus did't correct him, rather he saw that he had answered [b]discreetly and told him that he is not far from the Kingdom of God....

My question now is, who are we going to believe between jesus and you
For he didnt endorse is divity here while you said he is God.

Again who is the ONE and ONLY LORD?
know that if Jesus is not the ONE AND ONLY LORD then comparing Jesus to ONE AND ONLY LORD is bogus.

Rilwayne001:

Another lie here!
They are not only to follow it after entering the promise Land; it is an eternal commandment that they are to follow forever and ever in other for them to have eternal life.
Please reread the verse again, i guess you missed the part where it says they are to teach their generation in other for them to have long life.

And this is the greatest lie have ever read in nairaland by trying to divert our attention away from Mark 12:29-34 where it is clear/glaring that jesus is neither God almigty Nd doesnt share in His divinity you bring in another trinitarian deceptive verse to buttress your bogus argunent. Let us quckly examine Gen. 19:24.

When we read the account in Genesis 19 carefully, we find that it is the angels who will destroy Sodom. or else you want to tell me that jesus is an angel .

Genesis 19:12-14 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom.... they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them.... Then the two men said to Lot, "Whom else have you here?".... for we are about to destroy this place , because their outcry has become so great before Yahweh that [size=15pt]Yahweh has sent us to destroy it[/size] ."Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, "Up, get out of this place, for Yahweh will destroy the city.".... Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven

First, carefully observe who destroys Sodom: Yahweh destroys Sodom. (19:24). Now, carefully observe who says they will destroy Sodom: the two angels (19:13). Also carefully observe how Lot understands the angels when they tell him they will destroy Sodom. When the angels say they will destroy Sodom, Lot understands this to mean Yahweh will destroy Sodom (v. 14). It is quite clear, if you actually read the account in reasonable honesty, [size=14pt]that these two angels destroying Sodom are Yahweh who rained down brimstone and fire.

In other words, we are to understand these angels are Theophanous of God[/size] that is, not that GOD the father himself, same way i tried to explain the role Angel Jubreel played in the revelation of the Quran, which fall to your deaf hear.
^You quoted Genesis 16:7-13
In the verse above it was the angel of yahweh that appear to hagar, and he conveyed her exactly as if he is yahweh, same way aangel jibril conveyed the message to muhammad, well thats not a discussiom for today.

I think i have made myself clear on how angels act on behalf of God in sodom.

Emusan:

[s] In fact, I’m tired of you because you reason like a child. [/s]
For the last time, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit make up The Unity of God which is one and only Lord.

He quoted from their own scripture which talks about God’s Unity. I don’t know more than Him and I didn’t go against what was written but saying exactly what was written.

Your problem is because you don’t want to tell yourself the truth, so after Jesus has quoted Deu 6:4-5 which affirmed the Unity of God you still want Him to say no...? I’m also God :-/ :-/ How will you feel if someone stands in your front and says I am God? One thing you fail to understand is that Jesus didn’t come to earth to claim divinity RATHER to do The Father’s will, imaging Jesus never says He is God they accused Him of blasphemy what will now happen if Jesus says I am God?
He only reveals His true identity to few disciples at His transfiguration. Jesus didn’t need to correct Him because the man was right and if Jesus is to say to them(the Jews) that He is God THE JEWS WILL GET IT TWISTED (they can’t fully comprehend it-just like you) and think He is talking about the one they know through OT.

Believe Jesus who teaches that God is one and that David speaking through the Spirit called The Christ his Lord in the same chapter BUT you term it contradiction.
He’s not on earth to prove divinity since He understood that the man still hold to OT teaching of God’s Unity.

God’s Unity that comprises The Father, The Son and The Holyspirit no other One and Only Lord apart from this Unit.

Emusan:

Firstly, Jesus is an Angel in a sense that He was sent INTO the world because Angel simply means [b]Messenger BUT He is not an Angel created to live in heaven. [/b]

The story started from Genesis 18 when the Lord appeared and Abraham saw three men and Abraham still addressed these three men as LORD (Y@hovah) and WORSHIPPED them. ^In vr 2 ”When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the earth, ^In vr 9 we read a plural pronouns ”They said to him...” this comprises the three men ^In vr 10 the writer changed back to ”The Lord said, I...” This was used up to vr 15 which means the Unity of the men. ^In vr 16 the writer changed back to men ^In vr 17 The Lord was used again for this men up to vr 21 where this statement appears in vr 21 ”I will go down to see...” which means THE LORD is going down there. ^In vr 22 Two was single out going towards Sodom while the only one remained with Abraham was called the Lord this was used till the last vr33 What is so astonished about this story is what we found in Lot’s story.
Before I proceed I want the readers to know that your initially claimed was that The Angels are just Yahweh representative.
At the beginning of Lot’s story we read in vr1 ”The two angels came to Sodom...” this two Angels were identified with the three men who visited Abraham then if the men which the writer identified as ANGEL were just an heavenly created being then they shouldn’t have accepted WORSHIP from Lot because Lot WORSHIPPED them the way Abraham WORSHIPPED the three men.
^In vr 1 ”...When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth,” this is exactly what Abraham did.
^In vr 12 the writer used ‘the men’ again
^In vr 13 they said The Lord (Y@hovah) has sent them which mean they are the very one who will carry out the operation.
^In vr 14 Lot believed that they are The Lord (Y@hovah)
^In vr 16 “But he (Lot) lingered; so the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the LORD (Y@hovah) being merciful to him,...” we can see how THE MEN later called THE LORD and performed a prerogative who only belong to God by being MERCIFUL to Lot.
^In vr 18-20 we see Lot made a request/prayer for salvation. The astonish part of it is that....
^In vr 21-22 we see that the Angel GRANTED Lot’s request/prayer which no created angel can do.
^In vr 21-22 we can see again the PERSONAL PRONOUN being used to show that THEY are the one who actually want to carry out the operations i.e “...that I will not overthrow the city...”, “...for I can do nothing till you arrive there...”
So that’s why vr 23 & 24 can say ”The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar.
24 Then the LORD (Y@hovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (Y@hovah) out of heaven;
By using your OWN word “It is quite clear, if you actually read the account in reasonable honesty,” it means you didn’t read it in a clear reasonable honesty.
Lastly, you contrast this account with Gabriel of Quran BUT an honest person can see that Allah never APPEARED in form of man so Quran Gabriel can’t be compared with this account.
You didn’t make yourself clear RATHER you distort the scripture and show your dishonesty.
All Bible quotations are from RSV.