Christainity is a farce. . . . . . .

mazaje:

Christainity is a farce. . . . . . .

oh come on now, let them respond first

respond with what? the tower of bable myth? or the noah's ark sham? ohh i forgot that jonah survived inside a whale for 3 days and that snakes talk and eat dust. . . . . . .

Birds of the same feathers always flock together.

Bastage:

Huxley.
Although I agree with you in the main, at least one point you've posted has been proven or pretty well accounted for. I've read that astronomers have matched an astronomical alignment of some sort with the supposed year of Jesus' birth for example.

The above statement is a farce, I am very well versed in astronomy, and there is no astonomical alignment as you have stated. Please tell me what kind of astronomical alignment would make a star stand over one house. Even when the brightest objects seen from earth besides the Sun and moon, which is venus is shining, it does not shine on one house or even one country.

Here's a wikipedia page that explains the alignment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Bethlehem#Astrological_event

I'm not for one moment claiming that there was a star floating about all over the place. Therefore my statement is not a farce.

I'm indicating that there was probably some sort of astronomical event that the early Christians found pertinent enough to include in the scriptural text in some way and that it explains how the idea of the Star of Bethlehem came about.
Indicators point to astronomy, the Sun and to a degree, astrology being important to early Christianity. Not really suprising when you look at the pagan religions and ideas of the time that it absorbed. The Star of Bethlehem was very probably based on that importance and there's no reason why the birth-date of Christ wasn't moved to match that occasion. It doesn't matter if an alignment was viewable or not - if they knew about it, it may explain how the star idea came to be. The fact that it has turned into the story that it has where they've got this massive star following everyone around and leading them everywhere, only reinforces the fact that they took astronomy/astrology seriously.
Also, remember that Christ was not born on the 25th of December as that date has much more to do with Mithras Day and wasn't given as Jesus' birth date until years later. From the texts, it would seem he was born September, although some scholars have put forward an argument for May if I remember rightly.

There are also some scholars who believe that the star could have been a very bright comet. Again, I read somewhere that there was one at about the same time of Christ's supposed birth which was recorded by astronomers as far away as China.

It's a difficult thing to pin down without knowing the exact year and time of Christ's birth. Like I said, discard the literal Biblical description, but there are plenty of theories that give quite convincing evidence that the Star of Bethlehem story was based on a real astronomical event of some sort.

The Virgin birth of Christ, along with the Resurrection form the bedrock, upon which the Christian faith was founded and I want to share some of the research I conducted more than 30 years ago when i was still researching christianity. I will start with the virgin birth of Christ.

The major problem with Christianity and many other religions is the absolute lack of independent confirmation of the stories, if independent accounts exists, believers are asked to disregard any story in conflict with the story presented within the holy book, so the holy book, becomes the source and proof of itself, an authority unto itself.

Now lets go back to the Virgin Birth. First of all I want Christians to understand that virgin birth is not unique and exclusive to Christianity, in fact among ancient religions virgin birth was relatively new to the Christian faith. Among the religions of the orient, virgin birth and spiritual birth of their Guru or Saviour was not only accepted as a possibility but as a fact natural to all Gurus.

It is a fact that divine births were so commonly accepted among ancient people that whenever they hear of one who has greatly distinguish himself, they immediately classify such a person as having been born of a supernatural lineage. The learned Thomas Maurice in his book called Indian Antiquities, goes far as to state that “in every age and in almost every religion of the Asiatic world, there seems uniformly to have flourished an immemorial tradition that one god had from all eternity begotten another god”

Now lets look at other examples of Virgin Births.

India has a number of messengers who were divinely conceived and two of them bore the name “Chrishna” or “Chrishna the Saviour” (note the similarity with Christ). Now Chrishna was born of a chaste virgin called Devaki, Who on account of her purity was selected to become the mother of God.

Buddha was considered and believed by his followers to have been begotten of God and born of a virgin whose name was Maya. Long before the Christian era, we read of how the divine power called the” Holy Ghost” descended upon virgin Maya. In ancient Chinese version of the story, the holy ghost is called Shing-Shin.

The Siamese (Taiwan), had a God and saviour who was Virgin Born whom they called Codom. In this very ancient story, the beautiful Virgin had been informed in advance that she was to become the mother of a great messenger of God, and one day while in her usual period of meditation and prayer, she was impregnated by divine sun beams. When the boy was born, he grew up in a remarkable manner, became a protégé of wisdom and performed miracles.

When the first Jesuit priest visited china, they wrote in their reports at finding a heathen religion of that country, of a story of a redeeming saviour who was born of a Virgin and divinely conceived. The God was said to have been born 3468 B.C (before Christ), his name was Lao-Tsze and was said to have been born of a virgin black in complexion and as beautiful as a Jasper.

In Egypt, long before the Christian era, and before any of its doctrine was conceived, the Egyptian people had several messengers of God, who were conceived through Immaculate Conception. Horus was known to all of ancient Egypt as having been born of the virgin Isis and his conception and birth was considered one of the three great mysteries or mystical doctrines of the Egyptian religion. To then every incident in connection with the conception and birth of Horus was pictured, sculptured, adored and worshiped as the incidents of the conception and birth of Jesus is among the Christians today. Another Egyptian God called Ra was also conceived by a Virgin.

I think I should stop here, because if I decide to go on the examples would be too many. But I want to add that even, Plato who was born in Athens in 429 B.C. was believed by the populace to be a divine son of a pure virgin called Perictione.
It is recorded in the ancient record that the father of Plato who was known as Aris had been admonished in a spiritual dream to hold pure and sacred the person of his wife, until after the divine conception and birth of the child that is to come and that this child would be conceived by divine means.

I like people that make research into things of this nature. Many of this beleive you are ascribing to are form form imagination(consciousness). Many opf the India gods are not things that could be traced to physical world. For example, if you read deeply the Harekrisna consciousness, all the philosophy were based on the story form the inner mind of their guru. Jesus bitrth is a reality and it is so close to this present generation. Science had their proff to some extent on it.

I want you tyo know that Jesus is not just a man like I and you or any other legendary hero you might think of. Jesus is Emmanuel "God with us". His birth and death and resurrection including His life time are mysterious.

No controversy over this

yes
is called artificial insemination!

An interesting read.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1820685,00.html

@ Bindex
I just saw the link, it is quite interesting.

Its just funny to me that so many in telgent people are still so afraid of going to hell" that they waist their time and energy on religion instead of actually enjoying their life's. For all of you literal interpreters out there, do you actually believe that Jonas lived in a whale, excuse me giant fish, for 3 days?

big father:

This is total BLASPHEMY !
I wonder where you got your facts from. For me, i only know of the one written in the bible;which is the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Seems like you need to read more!

but how virgin fit give birth? Isn't that place supposed to be closed by something called hymen?
Abi na Caesarian section dem do for Mary?
Or as Jesus dey commot, he disvirgin his own mama?

dafidixone:

I like people that make research into things of this nature. Many of this beleive you are ascribing to are form form imagination(consciousness). Many opf the India gods are not things that could be traced to physical world. For example, if you read deeply the Harekrisna consciousness, all the philosophy were based on the story form the inner mind of their guru. Jesus bitrth is a reality and it is so close to this present generation. Science had their proff to some extent on it.

I want you tyo know that Jesus is not just a man like I and you or any other legendary hero you might think of. Jesus is Emmanuel "God with us". His birth and death and resurrection including His life time are mysterious.

No controversy over this

1) In your opinion.
2) No controversy? Somewhat arrogant, don't you think? If no controversy, where is the merit in faith? Or is faith no longer important?

What would you say about a book that had about 735 predictions of which 80% have come to pass? The remaining 20%, did not fail but happen to be futuristic and so may properly be expected to come to pass. Every other writing, astrologer, or even scientific (computer based) prediction of events, acknowledge at most a 5-25% track record. That book is the Bible. So if you are really an honest, objective person, you will have to deal with the accuracy of the Bible on every other matter, not just the claim of Jesus to Godhood.
It is obvious that there are different types contributing here: the partially and faultily informed (like wirinet who started this thread and says permission had to come from Rome. It took a significant amount of time to communicate with Rome! Crucifixions were common place. And the historical evidence for the existence of a Jesus during the time the Bible asserts, is abundant. Many characters quoted authoritatively from history havent even the same amount of reliability but are taken as certain because they dont make the strong claims on our life that Jesus does), the sincere but wrongly informed (like the chap who says everyone of note was born on 25th December and completely excludes mention of the Sun god Sol who is best known to have the date as his birthday and all the trappings of the Yuletide), and the right hearted but little informed who can only react in shock but put out no argument. Unfortunately, I'm a once in a year type of visitor. But my comment is just to help anyone who might come across this thread: I will be guilty of not having time also to present a detailed case. But know this:

1. As has been said by some, satan was fully aware of the expected Christ as he was prophesied from the 3rd chapter of Genesis and referenced multiple times thereafter. A good tactician adopts deception as part of the strategy against an enemy's plans. And the devil is a master deceiver. Muddying the waters is a basic tactic. So never adopt as irrefutable proof of fraud or non-originality, pre-emptive attempts by a competitior. A cursory look at the world of mobile phones or cars will let you know that an anticipated smartphone will spawn copycats even before their release.

2. The best proof of the integrity of an item is its effectiveness. Jesus the Christ has no compare. In plain terms of who packs the greatest punch, He knocks the daylights out of any contender. Just the mention of His name does impossible things. How do you argue with that? Sorry if you dont know what I am talking about but for your information, the name has raised the dead multiple times, healed impossible diseases, cast out demons and made the insane sane, to name but a few demonstrations. Again, there have been copycat demonstrations but none even begin to measure up in terms of volume, impact and living proof all around us. In fact, whenever there a direct spiritual challenge prompting any other claimant on divine power to step up to the plate, they tend to lose and manifest obvious defeat.(e.g. A relative was in a conference in England and psychic is to give a presentation on her stuff; the relative and her christian friend begin to pray quietly in the spirit against any demonic expression and madame presenter packs up material and says cant go ahead since bad energy readings in the room. Explain that.) And none of them have ever yet been able to reverse the outcome. (Note that I speak not of pretenders to the power of God: as shown in the sons of Sceva in the bible, defeat is assured when you haven't Him actually backing you but attempt to pick fight.)

3. Finally, for all true seekers out there, not those who are just looking for an excuse to keep doing what you know is ungodly: try going to Him in a simple prayer even with all your doubts. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you. He claims to still be alive. None of the others do. And maybe read through a Bible with an objective mind - the book of John is a good place to start. If I am wrong, well you lose nothing. But if you are wrong, you lose for eternity. Is that worth winning an argument over?

OH! Christians did you know...that your Religion has NO originality? Did you know that ALL of the Christian holidays...or all days acclaimed as a Christian holiday is actually...Pagan?!?

OOH NOO!! JESUS WAS ACUTALLY BORN IN THE SUMMER TIME!! OH NOO!!
DECEMBER 25 IS ACTUALLY A PAGAN HOLIDAY OOOH NNOO...IT'S CALLED DEUS SOL NATIALUS INVICTUS...OH NOOO

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN..?? OOH GEE I GUESS YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO LOOK IT UP....OOOH NOOO..
Its cute how a lot of you will deny the truth despite any TRUE or crucial evidence that EVERYTHING in the bible is true. Never mind the fact that at the time the bible was written the world was different...language and the meaning of what was trying to be said doesn't mean and no one will never now what most of the bible means because of such vices. The bible has been changed?!?! ^_- Written by and Altered by MEN. The original purpose of the bible was not to be worshiped. Its just a document of history and the way the world was. Christians went very well out of there way to keep people under control via Christ and the bible..... Did you know that Brigit Celtic Goddess was consider Jesus Christ God Mother. Did you also know that she was on counsel with man and she was the only women and the men called this counsel to order to determine weather women had souls....( a counsel of Christians mind you)...Needless to say it only took one vote and that vote was hers.

I'm sure someone will come back with something stupid say. And on that note...I bid adue

The Immaculate Conception was not the conception of Jesus, but the "fact" that Mary was born without sin as proclaimed by the Catholic Church.

wirinet:


I am suprised you did not get the point. Then let me state the obvious point i am trying to make; that the virgin birth story was not unique or indigenous to christianity and that it was a borrowed concept from the far east, from which it entered the near east, from where the Europeans adopted it into their religions including christianity.

CHRISTIANITY IS THE GREATEST! Most religions do copy us, dont be deceived.

Bastage:
Here's a wikipedia page that explains the alignment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Bethlehem#Astrological_event

I'm not for one moment claiming that there was a star floating about all over the place. Therefore my statement is not a farce.

I'm indicating that there was probably some sort of astronomical event that the early Christians found pertinent enough to include in the scriptural text in some way and that it explains how the idea of the Star of Bethlehem came about.
Indicators point to astronomy, the Sun and to a degree, astrology being important to early Christianity. Not really suprising when you look at the pagan religions and ideas of the time that it absorbed. The Star of Bethlehem was very probably based on that importance and there's no reason why the birth-date of Christ wasn't moved to match that occasion. It doesn't matter if an alignment was viewable or not - if they knew about it, it may explain how the star idea came to be. The fact that it has turned into the story that it has where they've got this massive star following everyone around and leading them everywhere, only reinforces the fact that they took astronomy/astrology seriously.
Also, remember that Christ was not born on the 25th of December as that date has much more to do with Mithras Day and wasn't given as Jesus' birth date until years later. From the texts, it would seem he was born September, although some scholars have put forward an argument for May if I remember rightly.

There are also some scholars who believe that the star could have been a very bright comet. Again, I read somewhere that there was one at about the same time of Christ's supposed birth which was recorded by astronomers as far away as China.

It's a difficult thing to pin down without knowing the exact year and time of Christ's birth. Like I said, discard the literal Biblical description, but there are plenty of theories that give quite convincing evidence that the Star of Bethlehem story was based on a real astronomical event of some sort.

^^^^^^

The SUN GOD!= The SON of GOD.

#Fact

Almost every ancient religion claims to have a virgin birth account.


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bigfather:


This is total BLASPHEMY !
I wonder where you got your facts from. For me, i only know of the one written in the bible;which is the LORD JESUS CHRIST.

The world existed before the bible was written.

Historian n astrologist.... n so on I love u....but One loves you most, let those history buy you eye..lol peace

Minor point, but Siam was the old name for Thailand, not Taiwan, which is an island to the east of mainland China where many Chinese citizens fled when Mao came to power.

wirinet:
The Siamese (Taiwan), had a God and saviour who was Virgin Born whom they called Codom. In this very ancient story, the beautiful Virgin had been informed in advance that she was to become the mother of a great messenger of God, and one day while in her usual period of meditation and prayer, she was impregnated by divine sun beams. When the boy was born, he grew up in a remarkable manner, became a protégé of wisdom and performed miracles.

Just to clarify, that's the paragraph I was responding to

*If God is our father then he's Mary's (p.b.u.h) father too? don't you think so?* as evenshe was just a normal human being like you and me? but )

If we say that Gods die, then you may ask, were they created and the one's who himself have been created can't be called a creator? isn't it?

If all are one, how can a father and a son be one?
*or*
How can a *father*, a *son* and the *holy spirit* be one? *How can we have 3 Lords?*

If one believes in the above statement/statements, it raises a question that at the day of Crucifixion, Jesus (p.b.u.h) died and if all are one (father-son-holy spirit) it means all three died? *If all Gods or God died then who looked after the universe?*

If the death wasn't a real death then do you mean, was it a mock death?

*How can a God die?* If died, then he is not God, how can a God or God's son be killed by humans?

If one believes that (Jesus p.b.u.h) died, was crucified and then resurrected, why did he come back in 3 days why not on the same day or the next day? Does God or the Lord need so much time to regain and restart? *He resurrected, but why isn't he here?*

*Why did he (Jesus p.b.u.h) in the first place?* *Was it really necessary, for him to die and let us free from the sins we commit?*

*God could have forgiven our sins without making his only son go through such painful death*

He died for our sins? Why does a Lord or a God has to die for our sins? If he's merciful, there are many option we humans could have got forgiveness, instead of letting his only son die, for ungrateful beings like us?

When you say sins, what kind of sins, if all, then are we free to commit sins as he (Jesus p.b.u.h) has already sacrificed for our sins?

What about the humans who were born prior to him, are they all covered under the assurance that Jesus (p.b.u.h) has already taken the burden of our sins. If yes, then why was he born after them, why not in place of Adam (p.b.u.h). A father will always give preference to his son, so Jesus (p.b.u.h) should have come to this world even before Adam (p.b.u.h).

When you say Jesus was God's son, why God didn't send his daughter? Does he have a daughter? If no, then does it mean God likes men over women and therefore, doesn't have a daughter. (Unfortunately, just like we humans prefer sons over daughters).

Then women should have a problem with such discriminating, bias and partial God. As he just used Mary (p.b.u.h) to give birth to his son and she (Mary p.b.u.h) is not even worshiped like her son Jesus (p.b.u.h) and God himself is worshiped?

Isn't this a discrimination? if yes, then what?

Why Adam (p.b.u.h) he should be considered the son of God and Eve (p.b.u.h) the daughter of God, as they came into being without a mother or a father, isn't it? as they were created miraculously.

*I ask the ALMIGHTY, the true Creator of all, to guide me, you and all human beings to the right path, the path which leads to him*

*The one who sustains us*

*The one who doesn't need partners in his doings*

*MAY PEACE BE UPON YOU, ME AND ALL BEINGS*

*AAMEEN*

This thread don tey