Segeggs:
what I mean is that you should try laying ur view in a polite manner instead of reacting like a starved lioness.

carefreewannabe:


Older men five times more likely to father children with birth defects

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1223230/Older-men-likely-father-children-birth-defects.html#ixzz3GiqL4wNg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

'Don't leave it too late to have children,' MEN are warned, as research finds older dads are more likely to have 'mutant sperm'
Studies have found that as a man ages, his sperm becomes poorer quality
Mutations cause stem cells in the testicles to divide abnormally
This results in an increasing proportion of mutant sperm as men age
Older fathers have higher risk of fathering a child with a disorder like autism


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2564752/Dont-leave-late-children-MEN-warned-research-finds-older-dads-likely-mutant-sperm.html#ixzz3GiqSt0aV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Fathers bequeath more mutations as they age

http://www.nature.com/news/fathers-bequeath-more-mutations-as-they-age-1.11247

A Man's Shelf Life
As men age, their fertility decreases and the health risks to their unborn offspring skyrocket.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200708/mans-shelf-life

cococandy:
This bit is true. I know it to be true.

When Older male- younger female versus older female -younger male couples mate, it is more possible to have birth defects from the former group than the latter

TV01:

We all know that men also have a "window of opportunity when it comes to marriage and childbirth. Although I hadn't actually heard the above before - but assuming it's true - all the more reason for men and women to consider and engage marriage in a timely fashion.

One thing though, what is the proportion of "older female - younger male" couples (and I don't mean a relatively small age gap)? A rather small percentage I'd wager - and even smaller when you think in terms of "marriages/real committed relationships".

Cougars feeling funky are hardly likely to be in permanent/long-term relationships with children in view. It's more likely the young bobo has his fill of her and then finds himself a nubile young filly to procreate with .


TV

cococandy:
I'm not arguing that. Nor am I interested in numbers or proportion.

cococandy:
Older men marry younger women more easily than older women marry younger men(in my side of the world)

cococandy:
I only used such examples so that in each case, it is clear who's contributing the aging gametes.

cococandy:
But even older male/older female mating poses a risk of birth defect and which is more often than not a fault from the aging sperm and not the eggs.

cococandy:
I'm talking the biological aspect not the social one.

TV01:
Just read through all the links. Interesting, although nothing new in an overarching sense – both men and women have optimal marriage/childbirth windows - but informative in the additional detail and the insight given to the hows and whys.

TV01:

I wasn't arguing for or against. I plainly stated I hadn't been aware of that fact?

lol. I meant I wasn't arguing against your point that older men have a bigger window of opportunity.

Which is the point I made, older woman - yonger man couples are relatively few??

and I agreed with you.

The fact that "eggs" are not "aged" as such and sperm are, is not the whole story in procreation.

almost the whole. But not the whole story


As per my post above, age in women is about capability/fertility, in men it seems to be more about quality

agreed to an extent. Asides from fertility issues women generally get better with age too. personality wise. Everyone does. Life humbles us all.


And that's perfectly fine and understood, but the two work in tandem, and for a reason !


TV

I wasn't arguing for or against. I plainly stated I hadn't been aware of that fact?

cococandy:
lol. I meant I wasn't arguing against your point that older men have a bigger window of opportunity.

Which is the point I made, older woman - yonger man couples are relatively few??

cococandy:
and I agreed with you.

The fact that "eggs" are not "aged" as such and sperm are, is not the whole story in procreation.

cococandy:
almost the whole. But not the whole story

As per my post above, age in women is about capability/fertility, in men it seems to be more about quality

cococandy:
agreed to an extent. Asides from fertility issues women generally get better with age too. personality wise. Everyone does. Life humbles us all.

coogar:


there's little or no truth in the biological clock of men. several other researches have proven there's no significant risk of down syndrome in men older age unlike the women. a woman's biological clock ticks 1,000 times faster than that of men.

[img]http://igniss.blog.hr/slike/l/autizam_sizofrenija_i_dijabetes_s_muskom_dobi.png[/img]

look at the red line(men) and black line(women). whose is worse?? there are hundreds of researches on the internet & in the cases where autism or down syndrome was found with older men, it was because the older men married older women.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12771769/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6220960/?i=4&from=/19449414/related

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19449414/?i=8&from=/12771769/related

carefreewannabe:


Coogar came to this thread and posted a diagram about the risks of down syndrome by maternal age and he was feeling like a genius but he was too re*tarded to think of other birth defects such as, for example, autism and schizophrenia.

TV01:

I don't agree with the bolded.
There is a biological clock for men - even if it's only in terms of the quality of their sperm. Although I see your point in terms of an absolute ability to procreate.
I'd also agree that a mans clock (and thus window) is slightly more favourable and probably more amenable to lifestyle change enhancements.
And as noted, a couple with two older partners has even more risks and potentiual issues along the procreation chain.
TV

coogar:


you must have been born spiritually blind.

[img]http://igniss.blog.hr/slike/l/autizam_sizofrenija_i_dijabetes_s_muskom_dobi.png[/img]

on the graph says A S D(red line)

a = autism
s = schizophrenia
d = diabetes



this is the research results....


BACKGROUND: Although the association between maternal age and the risks of birth defects has been well studied, the evidence from population data linking paternal age with birth defects was limited and inconsistent.

METHODS: We conducted a population-based retrospective cohort study of 5,213,248 subjects from the 1999-2000 birth registration data of the USA. Multiple logistic regressions were used to estimate the independent effect of paternal age on all birth defects and 21 specific defects groups after adjusting for potential confounding of maternal age, race, education, marital status, parity, prenatal care initiation, maternal smoking and alcohol drinking during pregnancy.

RESULTS: A total of 77,514 (1.5%) birth defects were recorded in the study cohort. The adjusted odds ratios were 1.04 (1.01, 1.06), 1.08 (1.04, 1.12), 1.08 (1.02, 1.14) and 1.15 (1.06, 1.24), respectively, for infants born to fathers 30-35, 40-44, 45-49 and over 50 years (test for trend, P = 0.0155),

when compared with those infants born to fathers aged 25-29 for any birth defect. Advanced paternal age was associated with increased risks of heart defects, tracheo-oesophageal fistulaoesophageal atresia, other musculoskeletal/integumental anomalies, Down's syndrome and other chromosomal anomalies.

Fathers under 25 years of age were also at increased risks of spina bifida/meningocele, microcephalus, omphalocele/gastroschisis and other musculoskeletal/integumental anomalies.

CONCLUSIONS: Infants born to older fathers have a slightly increased risk of birth defects. Young paternal age is also associated with slightly increased risk of several selected birth defects in their offspring. However, given the weak association, paternal age appears to play a small role in the aetiology of birth defects.

TV01:

Hmmm...

Although this study sounds plausible, I don't think I can objectively write of all the other studies. Even the last two links Carefreewannabee posted (not the Daily Mail ones), seemed scientifically conclusive that age was a factor in male fertility a lá sperm quality.

Maybe we should be looking for something more recent? Althpugh there seems to be a body of evidence to support age related deterioration in men - or are we quibbling over how much, not if?

TV

carefreewannabe:

@bold
So you really think medical researchers were so dvmb that they would not take the age of mothers into consideration?
Keep deceiving yourself but hurry up, your sp*erm is going bad.

coogar:


yes, we are discussing how much effect do older dads have on birth defects. there are other variables that weren't looked into in the older studies.

•the maternal age of the partner of the older dad
•prenatal care initiation,
•maternal smoking
•drugs during pregnancy.
•alcohol drinking during pregnancy

all these factors were not put into consideration in the older studies. they just plated statistics on the kids with the birth defects and the age of the dads.....they even ignored the age of the mothers. how's that accurate enough?

carefreewannabe:

@bold

The sources you provided are older than mine.

Do you now get why providing a source is important?

coogar:


yes, we are discussing how much effect do older dads have on birth defects. there are other variables that weren't looked into in the older studies.

•the maternal age of the partner of the older dad
•prenatal care initiation,
•maternal smoking
•drugs during pregnancy.
•alcohol drinking during pregnancy

all these factors were not put into consideration in the older studies. they just plated statistics on the kids with the birth defects and the age of the dads.....they even ignored the age of the mothers. how's that accurate enough?



yes, they ignored it....according to this research.


There has been a long-running debate about the association between paternal age and birth defects. Some studies have failed to adequately control for maternal age, and have suffered from high levels of missing paternal age, raising concerns over selection bias.

This paper analyzes an anonymously case-controlled dataset with 98% complete parental age data, originally collected to investigate the association between parental exposure to birth defects.

In our methods the cases and controls were matched on maternal age to within 6 months, and conditional logistic regression was used to estimate the odds ratio associated with a 10-year increase in paternal age.

Our results showed the estimated odds ratio for a birth defect pregnancy associated with a 10-year increase in paternal age was 1.13, 95%CI (0.85, 1.52). There was no statistically significant evidence of an association between paternal age and birth defects, but the estimated association was positive. The size of the estimated effect is considerably smaller than the effect of maternal age.

coogar:


yes, we are discussing how much effect do older dads have on birth defects. there are other variables that weren't looked into in the older studies.

•the maternal age of the partner of the older dad
•prenatal care initiation,
•maternal smoking
•drugs during pregnancy.
•alcohol drinking during pregnancy

all these factors were not put into consideration in the older studies. they just plated statistics on the kids with the birth defects and the age of the dads.....they even ignored the age of the mothers. how's that accurate enough?



yes, they ignored it....according to this research.


There has been a long-running debate about the association between paternal age and birth defects. Some studies have failed to adequately control for maternal age, and have suffered from high levels of missing paternal age, raising concerns over selection bias.

This paper analyzes an anonymously case-controlled dataset with 98% complete parental age data, originally collected to investigate the association between parental exposure to birth defects.

In our methods the cases and controls were matched on maternal age to within 6 months, and conditional logistic regression was used to estimate the odds ratio associated with a 10-year increase in paternal age.

Our results showed the estimated odds ratio for a birth defect pregnancy associated with a 10-year increase in paternal age was 1.13, 95%CI (0.85, 1.52). There was no statistically significant evidence of an association between paternal age and birth defects, but the estimated association was positive. The size of the estimated effect is considerably smaller than the effect of maternal age.

coogar:


who cares about sources?
all i know is statistics can always be manipulated to suit whatever agenda evil ewoks like yourself want to achieve.

it would be wrong to form a conclusion on older dads with older moms on birth defects. you have to keep the age of the moms lower than 30 to accurately see whether older dads are prone to birth defects & if yes - how much!!!

TV01:

If Coogars point above are true - essentially earlier studies did not control for other variables apart from Paternal age, then the onus is on CareFreeWannabe to produce some that do.

It's likely - especially in the West, where men are typically shamed into marrying older women - that older father simply meant older mothers.

Please, do quick - this is getting interesting, I may have to revise my estimate of the male window


TV