WinsomeX:
Benodic

Indeed I opened the thread with the intention of gaining understanding with some pentecostals on this forum but since they are not interested, permit me tp rub minds with you.

In the true sense of it Pentecostals don't practise mysticism and most of them don't even have a clue what it's all about. Pentecostalism appeals too much to the physical senses and materialism. spiritually they are very shallow even though they make a lot of noise. There might be a few rogue mystics like Tb joshua who use the pentecostal platform to ply their trade though.

PastorKun:


In the true sense of it Pentecostals don't practise mysticism and most of them don't even have a clue what it's all about. Pentecostalism appeals too much to the physical senses and materialism. spiritually they are very shallow even though they make a lot of noise. There might be a few rogue mystics like Tb joshua who use the pentecostal platform to ply their trade though.

I don't think TB Joshua is a mystic, he may have clairvoyance gifts but he probably has lost it because you must give freely the things of the spirit. The moment you begin to receive material gain - it goes and you become a fraud.

sealteam66:
It is really not easy you have to practice obedience (to a spiritual l director), poverty and chastity, should any one be lacking you are on the wrong path, and do not thing that the devil doesn't work here, remember, what St Paul said(I cant remember were), He will transform himself into an angel of light to deceive

Get Ascent of Mount camel and dark knight of the soul, and practise what is contained inside. you will get what you are looking for

Poverty here is an under used word...when mystic talk about poverty, they aint saying poverty as most people know it....tru POVERTY MEANS THAT ONE REALIZES THAT HE OWNS NOTHING, not even the cloth he is wearing, not even his body cos it can be taken away at any time...

MYSTICISM IS NOTHING MORE BUT ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT IS, SURRENDER TO WHAT IS, SURRENDER TO LOVE.....TAO TE CHING IS ONE OF THE BEST BOOK I HAVE SEEN TEACHING WAY OF MYSTICISM IN PLAIN AND CLEAR LANGUAGE.....TRUTH IS GLARING TO ALL EYES AND NEED NOT BE SHROUDED IN COMPLEXITY

shaggy007:
For those of you willing to learn the art of mysticism, download the book called "practical mysticism" by Evelyn Underwood.

The best, and straight to the point.

Here's the free ebook version.

http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Evelyn-Underhill-Practical-Mysticism.pdf?aaf522

Read everything, including the preface.

YOU dont learn myticism in a book, u become a mystic by being an keen observer of both thought and action and purging ones mind of negativity....true mysticim is practiced in stillness of the mind nothing more nothing else..and again there is no order of mysticism

@ Boss13

Ready Soul - This seems to be a difficult task. How I wish the spiritual masters can be more physical

being a Ready soul, is a natural progression of soul, after several lifetimes in the lower worlds and learning the primary lessons that it requires to mature, it is then approached by the Spiritual Masters in the inner to complete its training and become a master itself and take up its rightful place in the Kingdom of God.

the Spiritual Masters are present both physically and spiritually, but if the proper inner preparations has not been made, you will not be able to recognise them even if they are standing in front of you physically.
what makes me laugh about Christians is that they make so much noise about Jesus Christ, but the funny thing is that if Jesus is to appear physically to them they will definitely reject him and will even crucify him again. why? because they already have a preconceived notion about how he will appear.

The Masters are not interested in fulfilling anyone's fantasies about them or their spiritual role, they quietly work in the background assisting the serious souls to stand on their feet as they make the journey back to the Godhead

benodic:

@ Boss13
The Masters are not interested in fulfilling anyone's fantasies about them or their spiritual role, they quietly work in the background assisting the serious souls to stand on their feet as they make the journey back to the Godhead

funny but very very true.... someone once told me that "WISE MEN SAYS NOTHING"...masters can only be found in the stillness of the mind and observation of perceptions within and without

Benodic, you are the son of the devil and all who worship the God of Eck...your father is a liar and so are you, there is no truth in you

Dear NLers, Eckankar does not believe in the existence of hell fire- this goes against the teaching of Jesus christ

WinsomeX it is because of confusions like these that mysticism is not discussed openly

As a warning any mysticism that is not centered on christ especially christ crucified must be shunned with all zeal!

sealteam66:
Benodic, you are the son of the devil and all who worship the God of Eck...your father is a liar and so are you, there is no truth in you

Dear NLers, Eckankar does not believe in the existence of hell fire- this goes against the teaching of Jesus christ

WinsomeX it is because of confusions like these that mysticism is not discussed openly

As a warning any mysticism that is not centered on christ especially christ crucified must be shunned with all zeal!

There is no hell fire

sealteam66:
Benodic, you are the son of the devil and all who worship the God of Eck...your father is a liar and so are you, there is no truth in you

Dear NLers, Eckankar does not believe in the existence of hell fire- this goes against the teaching of Jesus christ

WinsomeX it is because of confusions like these that mysticism is not discussed openly

As a warning any mysticism that is not centered on christ especially christ crucified must be shunned with all zeal!

This statement is very unbecoming of a christian, it is very wrong of you to attack a person's personality just because his beliefs do not agree with yours.

WinsomeX:
Benodic
Indeed I opened the thread with the intention of gaining understanding with some pentecostals on this forum but since they are not interested, permit me tp rub minds with you.
So the eckankar religion is pluralist? It seeks harmony btw all religion, I guess from your words.
Jesus did not come to birth pluralism; many ways to God. He came to birth one way: THE way.
I find your reference to inner inclination very interesting. Since you were once a christian mystic and now, eckist, do you have similarities in your practice of mysticism with Pentecostals? Please explain.
Thanks.

I hope this thread hasn't gone stale...how the religions started off is that you find a teacher or prophet like Jesus finding a handful of disciples and teach give them a truth about God. These disciple will ccertainly not grasp this truth in equal measure for starters. They in turn will teach others based on there understanding...and you find that the original truth that was given had undergone wear and tear.

The Holy spirit is one big everything. To accomplish its purpose in a given point in time, carries destructive and constructive properties...hence it lowest attributes includes among many... Intelligence, virtue,the scientific laws, metaphysical laws, philosophy...etc, also it It (the holy spirit) is the very force that causes changes by standing as the destructive force. We laugh and cry, live and die, born young and age all in a bid to depict the nature of the Holy spirit in its lower manifestation.

Talking about pluralism in Eckankar, given the first paragraph, you can see that all religion is a Cut from this force referred to in Christianity as Holy spirit. Jesus and any other spiritual master can only give below 99% of truth in speech and writing. It's impossible to tell you am happy or write to you how happy l am, and for you to feel exactly how happy l am except when what caused my happiness makes you to feel happy as well--That's by the way though. So when this religion blossoms, another will too by concentrating on the Slice of truth that had been passed to them. On the scale of Truth, they will rank higher or lower based on mainly there capacity to inculcate Love as their mainstay and properties. Love embraces all if according to the biblical texts..."it's not puffed up, it gives of it self "etc. So Eckankar accepts all religions based on this fact despite recognising that the original truths by most of its translated founders had been given a new face. If the bible says "seek first the kingdom of God..." , or "...when the Holy spirit is come, it shall lead you onto all truth" or whether these very quotes where found in the Satanist's bible( if such exists) we''ll gladly use that text or admonition. This stance is the same where one religion will strictly prohibits relationships with others in the name of God, but love will in its way make them helplessly falling on there knees.

So if you dont mind, the drunkard, thief, Moslem, cultists, mystic, atheist and all those you had imagined had ' fallen from grace ' is on the path home to this ' kingdom of heaven' talked about by Jesus, cos everything else is God's and exists because it has its place in the grand scheme of things. We fight things cos we can't lift ourselves to see things from this higher perspective, and inadvertently break the laws of the very God we were trying to follow. Am sure if the scientific facts we have now are perhaps spiritual facts are obvious to most of the writers of the holy scriptures of most religions, some of the stories, commands, doctrines etc will never had seen the light of day...


unfortunately most of us will have to walk the path of 'half knowledge' and ignorance-- call it the dangerous path. Ironically God according to a scripture said " my people suffer for lack of knowledge" the very thing the 'supposed' originators of 'sin' sought and generations of their offspring shall be burnt forever for. Life is the best teacher, else we have no business here...one of its many lessons is ' there is are many ways to catch a rat 101', ' some ways to catch a rat are more effective than others 202' and ' there is always a way 204'. Remember, if all one has is a hammer, he sees all his problems as a nail. The purpose of becoming like the child that Jesus said is to have an open heart, else you will fail on the business of Jesus Christ, Holyspirit,God and the kingdom of God.

@ chieveboy

well said my brother .
sometimes i just get tired of flogging issues over and over.
the only consolation i take with me is that consciousness is ever expanding . what someone does not know today he will eventually get to know it tomorrow.
my only prayer is that he should not harm another Soul during his period of unknowingness .

SHALOM!

My name is OLATUNDE AROLOYE. This is my actual name; I am a Yoruba born in England, brought to Nigeria at a young age, but refused my birthright Traditional Knowledge. I do not speak out language, and there are things about our Culture I should know, but no one ever told me. I am currently employed as a Medical Laboratory Supervisor, at OBAFEMI AWOLOWO UNIVERSITY. I know some Science stuff.

I am an Born Again, Full-Gospel, Pentecostal Christian since 1979, I have been unaffiliated with Organized Christianity since 1985- when I achieved Enlightenment. In 1992, I began to learn CARLOS CASTANEDA'S Native American NAGUALISM, in 1994, I began to learn LAFAYETTE RONALD HUBBARD'S SCIENTOLOGY.

When I said that it is ESSENTIAL that NOBODY be allowed to TALK, nor expect to be taken SERIOUSLY in NAIRALAND.COM/RELIGION, without UP-FRONT REVEALING what their RELIGIOUS OR SPIRITUAL ALLEGIANCES are- THIS IS WHAT I MEANT!

WinsomeX:
WHAT IS MYSTICISM?

Mysticism may be defined as the pursuit of a deeper or higher subjective religious experience. It is the belief that spiritual reality is perceived apart from the human intellect and natural senses. It looks for truth internally, weighing feelings, intuition, and other internal sensations more heavily than objective, observable, external data. Mysticism ultimately derives its authority from a self-actualized, self authenticated light arising from within. This irrational and anti- intellectual approach is the antithesis of Christian theology [John MacArthur NT Commentary: Colossians, 120].

THIS IS WHAT I MEANT!

I greatly appreciate your candour in citing the source of your definition.

Do you understand how WRONG it is to TRUST this man?

I do not know much about JOHN MacARTHUR: I AM ASSUMING THIS IS THE ONE OF GRACE-TO-YOU MINISTIRES?

http://www.gty.org/products/commentaries/45mbc/The-MacArthur-Bible-Commentary-Hardcover

There is a JOHN MacARTHUR Senior, and a JOHN MacARTHUR JUNIOR.

I have not bothered to do any in-depth investigation of either of them: I do not believe it necessary.

These are clearly EVIL OYINBO HYPOCRITES- whichever generation you look at.

MY former laboratory BOSS is a PASTOR, and when the Internet was introduced to our department, he liked nothing better than to download the sermons of this JOHN MacARTHUR JUNIOR FREAK, and FORCE us all to listen to them on his PC'S LOUDSPEAKER.

He did not have to force ME very hard, actually.

I learned at some point that this OYINBO FOOL was an EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN.

EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS believe in the BORN AGAIN Experience, but not in HOLY GHOST BAPTISM with SPEAKING IN TONGUES, and DIVINE HEALING. They believe in a FRUITLESS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM.

I have been out-of-touch with Organized Christianity for 30 years, as much as possible- maybe they have modified their Teachings. Again.

They do that.

Like as if THE BIBLE were CHANGING.

THE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE IS COMPLETELY WRONG!

It is a NORTH ARAMAIC IDIOM, meaning: "TO CHANGE ONE'S THOUGHTS AND HABITS."

NICODEMUS spoke SOUTHERN ARAMAIC, and hence did not understand what Yahshua was talking about.

. JOHN 3:1-13.

THERE was a man of the Pharisees,
named Nicodemus, a Ruler of the Jews:
2. The same came to Jesus by night,
and said unto him,
"Rabbi, we know
that thou art a Teacher
come from God:
for no man can do
these Miracles that thou doest,
except God be with him."
3. Jesus answered and said unto him,
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee,

'EXCEPT A MAN
BE BORN AGAIN,
HE CANNOT SEE
THE KINGDOM OF GOD.'

4. Nicodemus saith unto him,
"How can a man be born when he is old?
Can he enter the second time
into his mother's womb,
and be born?"
5. Jesus answered,
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee,

'EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN
OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT,
HE CAN NOT ENTER INTO
THE KINGDOM OF GOD.'

6. "That which is Born of the Flesh is flesh;
and that which is Born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. "Marvel not that I said unto thee,

'YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN.'

8. "The wind bloweth where it listeth,
and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh,
and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is Born of the Spirit.
9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him,
"How can these things be?"
10. Jesus answered and said unto him,
"Art thou a Master of Israel,
and knowest not these things?
11. "Verily, verily, I say unto thee,

'WE SPEAK THAT WE DO KNOW,
AND TESTIFY THAT WE HAVE SEEN;
AND YE RECEIVE NOT OUR WITNESS.'

12. "If I have told you Earthly Things,
and ye believe not,
how shall ye believe,
if I tell you of Heavenly Things?
13. "And no man hath ascended up to Heaven,
but he that came down from Heaven,
even the Son of Man which is in Heaven."

[Source: GEORGE LAMSA Peshitta Bible footnote to JOHN 3:3,5.]

The Oyinbos used the ERRONEOUS and EXAGGERATED Born Again Doctrine to dominate Christianity and the World.

. 2nd CORINTHIANS 5:16-21.

16. Wherefore henceforth
know we no man after the flesh:
yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,
yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17. Therefore if any man be In Christ,
he is a New Creature:
Old Things are Passed Away;
behold, All Things are become New.
18. And All Things are of God,
who hath Reconciled us
to Himself by Jesus Christ,
and hath given to us
The Ministry of Reconciliation;
19. To wit,

"THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST,
RECONCILING THE WORLD
UNTO HIMSELF,
NOT IMPUTING
THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM;
AND HATH COMMITTED UNTO US
THE WORD OF RECONCILIATION."

20. Now then we are Ambassadors for Christ,
as though God did beseech you by us:
we pray you in Christ's stead,
be ye Reconciled to God.
21. For He hath made him to be Sin for us,
who knew no Sin;
that we might be made
The Righteousness of God in him.

PAUL'S DOCTRINE IS RIDDLED WITH LIES- WHICH YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY DETECT, UNLESS YOU FIRST LEARNED YAHSHUA'S GOSPEL TEACHINGS.

KENNETH COPELAND told this Testimony of ORAL ROBERTS, that he once prayed:

"How can I know Jesus?"

He was answered:

"READ MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, JOHN, AND THE BOOK OF ACTS- THREE TIMES IN THIRTY DAYS!"

He did it on his knees.

At the end of the thirty days, he testified, he knew Jesus better than he knew any man on the Face of the Earth!

(ANYONE WHO DOES NOT DO THIS IMMEDIATELY IS NOT A REAL CHRISTIAN, AND CANNOT BE RELIED ON.)

This Teaching if Paul, is used to EXAGGERATE the NEW BIRTH, and say that, JUST BECAUSE YOU ASKED "JESUS" TO COME INTO YOUR HEART, CALLED HIM LORD, etc. etc., YOU HAVE BECOME A NEWLY CREATED CHILD OF GOD, ALL THINGS RENEWED, which is a LIE.

It may FEEL that way for about TEN DAYS- then you will CAVE-IN- and run back to your BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANITY MASTERS in a HIGHLY-SUGGESTIBLE Mental State, RECEPTIVE to the LIES that will be used to CONTROL you, for the rest of your life.

This is a CONTRADICTION of YAHSHUA'S Declaration, that his Gospel DOES NOT make one COMPLETELY NEW- It "merely" makes one CHANGED.

MATTHEW 13:47-53.

47. "Again, The Kingdom of Heaven
is like unto a net,
that was cast into the Sea,
and gathered of every kind:
48. "Which, when it was full,
they drew to shore,
and sat down,
and gathered the Good into Vessels,
but cast the Bad away.
49. "So shall it be
at the End of the World:
The Angels shall come forth,
and sever the Wicked from among the just,
50. "And shall cast them into the Furnace of Fire:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
51. Jesus saith unto them,
"Have ye understood all these things?"
They say unto him,
"Yea, Lord."
52. Then said he unto them,
"Therefore every scribe
which is instructed unto
The kingdom of Heaven
is like unto a Man that is an Householder,
which bringeth forth out of his Treasure
Things New and Old."
53. And it came to pass,
that when Jesus had finished these Parables,
he departed thence.

How many of us are guilty of practicing mysticism, while calling it spirituality?

See this link for the second part of my post: www.nairaland.com/1955990/guilty-practising-mysticism/2#27288047

DON'T PRETEND THAT THERE IS ANY "US" HERE!

You represent ANTI-GOSPEL INTERESTS.

Anybody who knows MORE than your EVANGELICAL MASTERS permit is a "MYSTIC," and "OF-THE-DEVIL," just as the PHARISEES accused YAHSHUA!

. MATTHEW 12:22-45.

22. Then was brought unto him
one possessed with a Devil, blind, and dumb:
and he healed him,
insomuch that the blind and dumb
both spake and saw.
23. And all the people were amazed, and said,
"Is not this the son of David?"
24. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said,
"This fellow doth not cast out Devils,
but by Beelzebub the Prince of the Devils."
25. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them,
"Every kingdom divided against itself
is brought to desolation;
and every city or house
divided against itself
shall not stand:
26. "And if Satan cast out Satan,
he is divided against himself;
how shall then his Kingdom stand?
27. "And if I by Beelzebub cast out Devils,
by whom do your children cast them out?
Therefore they shall be your judges.
28. "But if I cast out Devils
by The Spirit of God,
then The Kingdom of God is come unto you.
29. "Or else how can one
enter into a Strong Man's House,
and spoil his goods,
except he first bind the Strong Man?
And then he will spoil his House.
30. "He that is not with me is against me;
and he that gathereth not with me
scattereth abroad.
31. "Wherefore I say unto you,

'ALL MANNER OF SIN AND BLASPHEMY
SHALL BE FORGIVEN UNTO MEN:
BUT THE BLASPHEMY
AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST
SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN
UNTO MEN.'

32. "And whosoever speaketh
a Word against The Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh
against the Holy Ghost,
it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this World,
neither in the World to come.
33. "Either make the tree good,
and his fruit good;
or else make the tree corrupt,
and his fruit corrupt:
for the tree is known by his fruit.
34. "O Generation of Vipers,
how can ye, being Evil,
speak Good Things?
For out of the Abundance of the heart
the mouth speaketh.
35. "A Good Man
out of the Good Treasure of the heart
bringeth forth Good Things:
and an Evil Man
out of the Evil Treasure
bringeth forth Evil Things.
36.But I say unto you,

'THAT EVERY IDLE WORD
THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK,
THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF
IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.'

37. "For by thy Words thou shalt be Justified,
and by thy Words thou shalt be Condemned."
38. Then certain of the scribes
and of the Pharisees answered, saying,
Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39. But he answered and said unto them,
"An Evil and Adulterous Generation
seeketh after a Sign;
and there shall no Sign be given to it,
but The Sign of the Prophet Jonas:
40. "For as Jonas was three days
and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of Man be three days
and three nights in the heart of the Earth.
41. "The men of Nineveh
shall rise in Judgment with this Generation,
and shall Condemn It:
because they repented
at the Preaching of Jonas;
and, behold,
a Greater than Jonas is here.
42. "The Queen of the South
shall rise up in the Judgment
with this Generation,
and shall Condemn It:
for she came from
The Uttermost Parts of the Earth
to hear The Wisdom of Solomon;
and, behold,
a Greater than Solomon is here.
43. "When the unclean spirit
is gone out of a man,
he walketh through dry places,
seeking rest,
and findeth none.
44. "Then he saith,

'I WILL RETURN INTO MY HOUSE
FROM WHENCE I CAME OUT;'

and when he is come, he findeth it empty,
swept, and garnished.
45. "Then goeth he, and taketh with himself
seven other spirits more wicked than himself,
and they enter in and dwell there:
and the last state of that man
is worse than the first.
Even so shall it be also
unto this Wicked Generation."

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO GET US TO FOLLOW AMERICAN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY, WHICH IS A FRONT FOR FREEMASONRY?

SHALOM!

WinsomeX:
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind

THE JUSTICE SYSTEM OF ANY CIVILIZED SOCIETY CONSISTS OF CALLING THE PERSON ACCUSED, TELLING THEM THE CHARGES AGAINST THEM, AND KETTING THEM EXPLAIN THEMSELVES.

The Pharisses- of whom Paul NEVER renounced membership- abandoned that procedure, and condemned Yahshua before hearing him.

They said that he was PROVEN to be a False Prophet, MERELY BECAUSE OF WHERE HE WAS FROM.

PAUL WAS LYING TO RETARD THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE CHURCH.

He had BANNED Gentile Christians from reading THE BIBLE- he voted to STOP Hebrew Christians TEACHING the Gentiles Christians THE TORAH (ACTS 15), and he WITHHELD YAHSHUA'S TEACHINGS, and CURSED ANYONE who preached The ORIGINAL Gospel (GALATIANS 1).

What he says is NOT ALWAYS RELIABLE- if it ever is.

The above text is the reason for this thread titled "Are you guilty of practising mysticism?". I did not open the thread to find out about mystics; I opened the thread to show that mysticism is actually anti Christian and therefore Antichrist.

THAT IS TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE JUDGED THEM ALREADY, BEING IN IGNORANCE OF MYSTICISM, BUT FROM WHAT ONE OYINBO HYPOCRITE OPPOSED TO YAHSHUA'S GOSPEL HAS TOLD YOU.

I am glad however that many mystics have found the thread to espouse their theology. Those of you who find then inviting, may imbibe it to the detriment of your souls and to your eternal damnation.

I AM INDEBTED TO JOHN MACARTHUR JUNIOR, FOR HIS TEACHING ON THE MINYAN.

This one Teaching might SAVE CHRISTIANITY, all by itself!

(I mentioned it to my boss, several years later.

He had no idea what I was talking about!

But I heard it from HIS MP3 Message!)

OR MAYBE NOT...!

[b]"In Jewish Religion, a minimum of TEN RIGHTEOUS MEN are necessary, in order to begin any Religious endeavor- such as to BUILD A SYNAGOGUE.

If Jews came to a strange city, the first thing they wanted to know, was: "WHERE IS THE SYNAGOGUE?"

If there was no Synagogue, they would go to the River Banks out of the city, to weep and mourn for the DOOMED CITY (GENESIS 18)- until there were ten of them. Then they would REJOICE- because NOW they could build their Synagogue.

. GENESIS 18:17-33.

17. And The LORD said,
"Shall I hide from Abraham
that thing which I do;
18. "Seeing that Abraham
shall surely become
a great and mighty nation,
and all the nations of the Earth
shall be Blessed in him?
19. "For I know him,
that he will command his children
and his household after him,
and they shall keep The Way of The LORD,
to do Justice and Judgment;
that The LORD may bring upon Abraham
that which He hath spoken of him.
20. And The LORD said,
"Because the Cry
of Sodom and Gomorrah is great,
and because their Sin
is very grievous;
21. "I will go down now,
and see whether
they have done altogether
according to the Cry of it,
which is come unto Me;
and if not, I will know.
22. And the men turned
their faces from thence,
and went toward Sodom:
but Abraham stood yet before The LORD.
23. And Abraham drew near, and said,
"Wilt thou also destroy
the Righteous with the Wicked?
24. "Peradventure there be
fifty Righteous within the city:
wilt Thou also destroy
and not spare the place
for the fifty Righteous that are therein?
25. "That be far from Thee
to do after this manner,
to slay the Righteous with the Wicked:
and that the Righteous
should be as the Wicked,
that be far from thee:
Shall not the Judge of all the Earth do right?"
26. And The LORD said,
"If I find in Sodom fifty Righteous
within the city, then I will spare
all the place for their sakes.
27. And Abraham answered and said,
"Behold now, I have taken upon me
to speak unto The Lord,
which am but dust and ashes:
28. "Peradventure there shall lack
five of the fifty Righteous:
wilt thou destroy all the city
for lack of five?"
And He said,
"If I find there forty and five,
I will not destroy it."
29. And he spake unto Him
yet again, and said,
"Peradventure there shall be
forty found there."
And He said,
"I will not do it for forty's sake."
30.And he said unto him,
"Oh let not The Lord be angry,
and I will speak:
Peradventure there shall
thirty be found there."
And He said,
"I will not do it, if I find thirty there."
31. And he said,
"Behold now, I have taken upon me
to speak unto The Lord:
Peradventure there shall be
twenty found there."
And He said,
"I will not destroy it for twenty's sake."
32. And he said,
"Oh let not The Lord be angry,
and I will speak yet but this once:
Peradventure ten shall be found there."
And He said,
"I will not destroy it for ten's sake."
33.And The LORD went His Way,
as soon as He had left
communing with Abraham:
and Abraham returned unto his place.

"In the SYNAGOGUE, the TORAH SCROLL cannot be OPENED, until a FULL MINYAN is present." - John MacArthur Junior.[/b]

This is a very important Doctrine, which you never hear from the TITHE-GUZZLERS!

THE SHEKINAH PRESENCE OF GOD IS BELIEVED TO BE PRESENT WHEN THERE IS A FULL MINYAN.

This sheds light on why Yahshua had to have TWELVE DISCIPLES-he TRAVELLED with his MINYAN.

His exploits were not the feats of a SINGLE MAN, but of a MAN with a MINYAN.

Attempts to EMULATE Yahshua have ALWAYS PRESUMED that HE had all the Power.

The contribution of the MINYAN+1 Disciples was generally overlooked.

TUBERCULOSIS JOSHUA would have become a NATIONAL HERO, if he could have introduced THAT Teaching! ("Synagogue" my ass!)

My concern for the thread is with my own constituency: the church. Particularly Pentecostals. I hope to show that they are in danger of delving into mysticism and that the so called results they obtain or the spirits they hear actually cab actually be of demonic origin. I base my premise on the word of God as quoted above in Colossians 2:18.

PAUL'S TEACHINGS ARE NOT THE GOSPEL.

MATTHEW 7:1-6.

“JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
2. "For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged;
and with what measure ye mete,
it shall be measured to you again.
3. "And why beholdest thou the mote
that is in thy brother's eye,
but considerest not the beam
that is in thine own eye?
4. "Or how wilt thou say to thy brother,

'LET ME PULL OUT THE MOTE
OUT OF THINE EYE;'

and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. "Thou Hypocrite,
first cast out the beam
out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly
to cast out the mote
out of thy brother's eye.
6. "Give not that which is holy
unto the dogs,
neither cast ye your pearls
before swine,
lest they trample them
under their feet,
and turn again and rend you."

YOU CANNOT SEE BEYOND YOUR OWN HATRED OF YAHSHUA, AND THOSE WHO LIVE HIM, THAT HAS BLINDED.

. JOHN 14:21-27.

21. "He that hath my Commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot,
"Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the World?"
23. Jesus answered and said unto him,
"If a man love me, He will keep my Words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24. "He that loveth me not keepeth not my Sayings: and the Word which ye hear is not mine, but The Father's which sent me.
25. “These things have I spoken unto you, being (yet) present with you.
26. "But the Comforter, (Which is) The Holy Ghost, Whom The Father will send in My Name, He shall Teach you all things and bring all things to your Remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 “Peace I leave with you; My Peace I give unto you, not as the World giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YAHSHUA TO HAVE MANIFESED HIMSELF TO PAUL.

That is a FANTASY of the most ABOMINABLE Order!

PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS IS NOT A WAY TO GET YAHSHUA TO MANIFEST HIMSELF TO YOU.

If it WERE, he would have SAID SO.

PAUL THEREFORE IS EVERYTHING YOU ACCUSE THE PENTECOSTAS OF.

THAT is the BEAM in your own eye.

Let us be reminded of the purpose of Paul writing to the Colossians. It was to warn them of a certain false gospel called Gnosticism. The Gnostics had various dimensions in which they operated: including, intellectualism, ritualism, mysticism and legalism. Paul addressed these issues in that order from Colossians 2: 8-23. In Colossians 2:18, he began to speak on mysticism. He enumerated the following as their stock in trade:

1. Voluntary humility and worshiping of angels.
2. Taking authority from visions.
3. Pride from a fleshly mind.

1. Worshipping of Angels: A group guilty of this practise in Christendom are Catholics and white garment churches. Make no mistake about it, these people have had tremendous experiences from these devotions and thus are enslaved to them. The reason why many of them hold to these practices is bc they have found solution to life challenges through them. So now they are enslaved.

2. Visions: Those guilty of these are mostly pentecostals. Some tell of Jesus appearing to them to teach doctrines not found in the bible. Some make trips to heaven and hell, returning to tell their stories in bestseller books and largely attended conferences. While I do not deny God can give visions, vision in themselves are not final authority. If whatever vision you have do not line up with scripture, may that vision perish with you.

3. The result in all of the two above is pride, and not faith or humility. First the individual that has these experiences puts on the toga of exclusivity. He is seen as special. He is proud; basing his pride on a fleshly thing, a vision rather than God's word. But God's word says the just will live by faith: Faith in Christ and a deep humility that resorts from being a debtor to God's grace in Christ.
[quote]
I said all of that to warn my Pentecostal friends against mysticism and to ask them to beware of delving into realms that are wholly dominated by demonic spirits. In this vain I would like to speak briefly on the following practices in such churches:

1. Speaking with tongues.
2. Hearing voices.
3. Fasting.

1. Tongues: My study of scriptures reveal that tongues is a valid gift of the Spirit. But I must of certainty agree with many who question the modern day practices of speaking with tongues, in the basis that much of those tongues cannot be interpreted and of necessity are gibberish. I believe that a valid gift of tongue which can still operate today, will come with interpretation or be a means to evangelize hitherto unreached nations for Jesus. I fear that much of tongue praying today is speaking gibberish into the air and Satan's wise way of denying the Christian an opportunity for rich communion with God. I sincerely believe that the tongue practise should be investigated more closely by Christians with the view to judging its scriptural foundation and if found faulty, the practice discarded.

2. Hearing voices: This is another mystical dimension of Pentecostalism that is worrisome. The phrase "God told me.." is so prevalent in these religious circles that one begins to wonder if God is talkative. Most of the epistles were written with apostolic authority and rarely do we find any of them saying God told them anything. Except Revelation that was a clear encounter with Christ. In the Old Testament, we see God appearing to the prophets in far in between periods. How this same God has suddenly developed a penchant for always talking is bewildering. John warned us that many spirits have gone into the world. Are these the spirit speaking to these people? Whatever any man says he heard from God, let us know that the bible is the final authority. If what a man hears does not line up with scripture, it is not God. If however another man claim he heard nothing but is doing the bible, follow that man. Let us be aware of all these God told me talk. Its the root of many extra biblical doctrines.

3. Fasting: a legitimate spiritual exercise when inspired by God. However, Lengthy fasting periods not directed by God can open up a man to new dimensions in the spirit realm. And anyone not properly grounded can have encounters with evil spirits that will forever influence with him negatively. The story is told of how Mohammed encountered an angel in a cave who gave him the Quran. It all started through a quest into mysticism. Many Pentecostals in the quest for anointing indulge in protracted fastings, the results are usually revelations that lead to extra biblical teachings. Let us beware.

In conclusion, I remind us of MacArthur statement that I put at the OP:

Mysticism may be defined as the pursuit of a deeper or higher subjective religious experience. It is the belief that spiritual reality is perceived apart from the human intellect and natural senses. It looks for truth internally, weighing feelings, intuition, and other internal sensations more heavily than objective, observable, external data. Mysticism ultimately derives its authority from a self-actualized, self authenticated light arising from within. This irrational and anti- intellectual approach is the antithesis of Christian theology.

Biblical truths should be learnt via objective studies into scriptures.
God's Spirit who authored it, is ever near to guide us into all truths. We do not need subjective experience or a certain word from the Lord to know biblical truth. They are open to us if we are studios and prayerful enough in our study. I do not deny the fact that God can reward such studious endeavors with certain subjective experiences but it will not be the norm. And even when they happen, they cannot supercede the authority of scripture and our duty is not to go looking for them.

I still will like to hear the opinions of leading Pentecostals on this forum in this matter. I hope Bidam, who has written a bit on pentecostalism here, will honor the invitation; and Image123, along with others.

Cheers.

What do you mean by "CHEERS?"

Are you in your cups?

Go to South Africa, get a Degree in Witchcraft and stop sematics. The Supreme Spirit is God and that is Mysticism. The Holy and all Unholy Spirits are parts of Him. That is Mysticism. The Hearts, Souls, Minds, flesh, Feelings, Thinkings, Reasonings, Senses, Wisdoms, Knowledges, Understandings, TheFaith, TheHope, Peace and Love etcetera are Spirits creatures of God. And for this reason, Atheism is part of the Evil creatures of God. Mysticism galore and is God, TheFaith, TheHope, Peace and Love, all is Mysticism!!!!

SHALOM!

orunto27:
Go to South Africa, get a Degree in Witchcraft and stop sematics.

Why would anyone want to do that?

The Supreme Spirit is God and that is Mysticism.

That is not correct Grammar.

You must speak properly, if you wish to communicate.

"The Supreme Spirit is God and that is Mysticism" does not make sense.

The Holy and all Unholy Spirits are parts of Him.

This statement is false and makes no sense.

God is Holy.

. LEVITICUS 19:1-2.

AND The LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2. "Speak unto all the Congregation of the Children of Israel, and say unto them,

'YE SHALL BE HOLY:
FOR I THE LORD YOUR GOD
AM HOLY.' "

HOLINESS IS DIFFERENTIATED FROM UNHOLINESS.

. AMOS 3:3.

3. "Can two walk together,
except they be agreed?"

. REVELATION 22:11.

11. "He that is UNJUST, let him be unjust still:
and he which is FILTHY, let him be filthy still:
and he that is RIGHTEOUS, let him be righteous still:
and he that is HOLY, let him be holy still."

HOLINESS AND UNHOLINESS are different and separate, by definition.

Unholy Spirits therefore cannot possibly be "parts of God."

That is Mysticism

.

no. That is DELUSION.

The Hearts, Souls, Minds, flesh, Feelings, Thinkings, Reasonings, Senses, Wisdoms, Knowledges, Understandings, TheFaith, TheHope, Peace and Love etcetera are Spirits creatures of God.

WHERE EXACTLY DID YOU LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH?

Can you get a REFUND?

Have you any Proof or Authority to back up your Theory?

And for this reason, Atheism is part of the Evil creatures of God.

I am pretty sure that you just committed BLASPHEMY against God.

. MATTHEW 12:22-45.

22. Then was brought unto him
one possessed with a Devil, blind, and dumb:
and he healed him,
insomuch that the blind and dumb
both spake and saw.
23. And all the people were amazed, and said,
"Is not this the son of David?"
24. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said,
"This fellow doth not cast out Devils,
but by Beelzebub the Prince of the Devils."
25. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them,
"Every kingdom divided against itself
is brought to desolation;
and every city or house
divided against itself
shall not stand:
26. "And if Satan cast out Satan,
he is divided against himself;
how shall then his Kingdom stand?
27. "And if I by Beelzebub cast out Devils,
by whom do your children cast them out?
Therefore they shall be your judges.
28. "But if I cast out Devils
by The Spirit of God,
then The Kingdom of God is come unto you.
29. "Or else how can one
enter into a Strong Man's House,
and spoil his goods,
except he first bind the Strong Man?
And then he will spoil his House.
30. "He that is not with me is against me;
and he that gathereth not with me
scattereth abroad.
31. "Wherefore I say unto you,

'ALL MANNER OF SIN AND BLASPHEMY
SHALL BE FORGIVEN UNTO MEN:
BUT THE BLASPHEMY
AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST
SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN
UNTO MEN.'

32. "And whosoever speaketh
a Word against The Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh
against the Holy Ghost,
it shall not be forgiven him,
neither in this World,
neither in the World to come.
33. "Either make the tree good,
and his fruit good;
or else make the tree corrupt,
and his fruit corrupt:
for the tree is known by his fruit.
34. "O Generation of Vipers,
how can ye, being Evil,
speak Good Things?
For out of the Abundance of the heart
the mouth speaketh.
35. "A Good Man
out of the Good Treasure of the heart
bringeth forth Good Things:
and an Evil Man
out of the Evil Treasure
bringeth forth Evil Things.
36.But I say unto you,

'THAT EVERY IDLE WORD
THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK,
THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF
IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.'

37. "For by thy Words thou shalt be Justified,
and by thy Words thou shalt be Condemned."
38. Then certain of the scribes
and of the Pharisees answered, saying,
Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39. But he answered and said unto them,
"An Evil and Adulterous Generation
seeketh after a Sign;
and there shall no Sign be given to it,
but The Sign of the Prophet Jonas:
40. "For as Jonas was three days
and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of Man be three days
and three nights in the heart of the Earth.
41. "The men of Nineveh
shall rise in Judgment with this Generation,
and shall Condemn It:
because they repented
at the Preaching of Jonas;
and, behold,
a Greater than Jonas is here.
42. "The Queen of the South
shall rise up in the Judgment
with this Generation,
and shall Condemn It:
for she came from
The Uttermost Parts of the Earth
to hear The Wisdom of Solomon;
and, behold,
a Greater than Solomon is here.
43. "When the unclean spirit
is gone out of a man,
he walketh through dry places,
seeking rest,
and findeth none.
44. "Then he saith,

'I WILL RETURN INTO MY HOUSE
FROM WHENCE I CAME OUT;'

and when he is come, he findeth it empty,
swept, and garnished.
45. "Then goeth he, and taketh with himself
seven other spirits more wicked than himself,
and they enter in and dwell there:
and the last state of that man
is worse than the first.
Even so shall it be also
unto this Wicked Generation."

YSHSHUA TAUGHT THAT A KINGDOM DOES NOT FIGHT AGAINST ITSELF- OR ELSE IT WILL DESTROY ITSELF.

The Spirit of God is in opposition to Evil Spirits and their Works.

Mysticism galore and is God, TheFaith, TheHope, Peace and Love, all is Mysticism!!!!

Is your inability to write complete sentences Drug-Related?