Among most if not all religions has come the promise of prolonged or everlasting life.....but how do we know this to be true?
how do we know with 100% accuracy that this is true?
For most people it is true because a book says so...
For others it is true because they can't fathom an only mortal life...
For the others still... they have convinced themselves of it being true...
Here lies the question.....when what you believe cannot be taken as true on its own merits but through unsourced and unfalsify-able ways and then passed on to others especially children as 100% accurate....is it indistinguishable from deceit?

davien:
Among most if not all religions has come the promise of prolonged or everlasting life.....but how do we know this to be true?
how do we know with 100% accuracy that this is true?
For most people it is true because a book says so...
For others it is true because they can't fathom an only mortal life...
For the others still... they have convinced themselves of it being true...
Here lies the question.....when what you believe cannot be taken as true on its own merits but through unsourced and unfalsify-able ways and then passed on to others especially children as 100% accurate....is it indistinguishable from deceit?

What is wrong with everlasting life?

Death is only the beginning.

death is the end! physical death i mean is the end. mental death is quite different, mental death is when one is a savage like we are in the world today, when a person thinks that GOD is a spirit, that is a mental death. from that, one can be ressurected, and when he does, he begins to do things, create things and make things perfect on its course, the passing of all this great knowledge unto the children is what is called everlasting. physical death is final and a must after which nobody cares but just remembers him/her thru his /her children. pls don't say the spirit goes on, maybe but nobody cares not even GOD.

JackBizzle:



What is wrong with everlasting life?

Death is only the beginning.

gatiano:
death is the end! physical death i mean is the end. mental death is quite different, mental death is when one is a savage like we are in the world today, when a person thinks that GOD is a spirit, that is a mental death. from that, one can be ressurected, and when he does, he begins to do things, create things and make things perfect on its course, the passing of all this great knowledge unto the children is what is called everlasting. physical death is final and a must after which nobody cares but just remembers him/her thru his /her children. pls don't say the spirit goes on, maybe but nobody cares not even GOD.

Elijah's Apostle

Please sir, before I make my own contribution, do you have a copy of the Holy Bible?

JackBizzle:



What is wrong with everlasting life?

Death is only the beginning.

And you know this how?

Dlionsheart:
Please sir, before I make my own contribution, do you have a copy of the Holy Bible?

yes i own a copy of it....what difference does that make?

davien:
And you know this how?

Think about it.

The mind is stronger than the body.

JackBizzle:



Think about it.

The mind is stronger than the body.

so a thought can prove "everlasting life"?

davien:
so a thought can prove "everlasting life"?

if the brain is just chemicals and matter, who is to say that our chemicals and matter cant rearrange at another time? Reincarnation?


Heaven awaits

JackBizzle:



if the brain is just chemicals and matter, who is to say that our chemicals and matter cant rearrange at another time? Reincarnation?


Heaven awaits

i am not sure why you instantly brought up "if the brain is just chemicals and matter..." yet still such a re-arrangement after death is impossible......
as biological beings that need to sustain ourselves with biochemical energy....we are constantly re-arranging cells(and destroying cells) as we age.....that is why you never look 100% the same as when you were 5.....that configuration of cells has been modified....and when you die....the process stops....the energy is then given back to the environment albeit in the conversion of the lifeless husk that was once you into useful energy by saprophytic organisms....

davien:
i am not sure why you instantly brought up "if the brain is just chemicals and matter..." yet still such a re-arrangement after death is impossible......
as biological beings that need to sustain ourselves with biochemical energy....we are constantly re-arranging cells(and destroying cells) as we age.....that is why you never look 100% the same as when you were 5.....that configuration of cells has been modified....and when you die....the process stops....the energy is then given back to the environment albeit in the conversion of the lifeless husk that was once you into useful energy by saprophytic organisms....

look at the bold in your comment.....how is such a rearrangement after death impossible?

What makes people unique? dna? What if people have the same dna? The same shape of brain etc? What really hinders reincarnation?


I'm sure you are one of those close minded atheists! Science without religion. Science without the wonder

davien:
Among most if not all religions has come the promise of prolonged or everlasting life.....but how do we know this to be true?
how do we know with 100% accuracy that this is true?
For most people it is true because a book says so...
For others it is true because they can't fathom an only mortal life...
For the others still... they have convinced themselves of it being true...
Here lies the question.....when what you believe cannot be taken as true on its own merits but through unsourced and unfalsify-able ways and then passed on to others especially children as 100% accurate....is it indistinguishable from deceit?

If you ve witnessed the mysterious events that took place within the dying period of some people(christians, muslims, athiests etc) you will know that this world is not the end of life. I have witnessed a lot of them personally, including that of my younger brother who died some years ago.

Again if you ve heard testimonies of those who had near death experience across the globe (christians, atheists, muslims , budhists, traditionalists), you will know that life doesnt end here on earth. I have witnessed such testimonies face to face with those that experienced it. I ve also read some of the testimonies both online and offline.


Bro, life is larger than you think. I am not forcing you to believe but your unbelief doesnt change anything. Even if i decide to agree with you, it still does not change the truth about this mystery.

JackBizzle:






look at the bold in your comment.....how is such a rearrangement after death impossible?

because by definition...that system tends towards death.... each cell in your body die at one time or another....main death is when that system cannot sustain itself anymore...

What makes people unique? dna? What if people have the same dna? The same shape of brain etc? What really hinders reincarnation?

actually humans have less than 1% variation and in that if we were to express the part of your genome that belongs to you in bytes....it would just be 10 megabytes.....even still we are all born with an average of 150 mutations(mostly neutral)....and accumulate no less than a dozen in a lifetime....that continuous changing system that makes you unique cannot be derived in the same way it began....

I'm sure you are one of those close minded atheists! Science without religion. Science without the wonder

please explain how religion and science go together and which one produces results and is the hallmark of the century

honourhim:


If you ve witnessed the mysterious events that took place within the dying period of some people(christians, muslims, athiests etc) you will know that this world is not the end of life. I have witnessed a lot of them personally, including that of my younger brother who died some years ago.

apologies for your younger brother....i've witnessed the deaths of a lot of my relatives.......and nearing death the body does what it does best.....try to keep the brain active.....oxygen deprivation and neurones firing off within the brain cause a lot of weird things....even in the living oxygen deprivation through auto-er.otic asphyxiation can lead to extreme euphoria...

Again if you ve heard testimonies of those who had near death experience across the globe (christians, atheists, muslims , budhists, traditionalists), you will know that life doesnt end here on earth. I have witnessed such testimonies face to face with those that experienced it. I ve also read some of the testimonies both online and offline.

For many years when i was a theist i held such things as true also but when you take a closer look objectively....its a convolution of sorts....
results of alleged ndes' experiences varies throughout history....and are mostly influenced by culture....beliefs...society...and even suggestive messages affect and produce nde's……… i bet you wouldn't believe me if i told you people become atheists after nde's just like the reverse cases you are used to hearing.....the thing is i can't suddenly say "aha,that means blah blah blah"..as you are presenting to me right now...

Bro, life is larger than you think. I am not forcing you to believe but your unbelief doesnt change anything. Even if i decide to agree with you, it still does not change the truth about this mystery.

what do you know about life to conclude it being larger?....and my unbelief per say has nothing to do with the claims.....i believe you look before crossing the road...why don't you have faith that no car is approaching? ……apply this reasoning to such a claim that no one bothers to look before walking to it...

davien:
apologies for your younger brother....i've witnessed the deaths of a lot of my relatives.......and nearing death the body does what it does best.....try to keep the brain active.....oxygen deprivation and neurones firing off within the brain cause a lot of weird things....even in the living oxygen deprivation through auto-er.otic asphyxiation can lead to extreme euphoria...

[/b]

Thanks bro. I do not intend to argue with you on this issue because we all will die someday. I just want to clarify the points i made. What i'm talking about is not what happened at the hour of death and the struggle/pain surrounding it. Some of these people died in accidents on the spot, some were not sick at all but died suddenly, some were also sick. The mysteries that surrounded their actions, the words of their mouth some days before their death(I mean before the accident or whatever that killed them) are things one cant have time enough to tell. But they are mysteries that makes the reality of the after life obvious to whoever that witnessed such things.

davien:

[b] For many years when i was a theist i held such things as true also but when you take a closer look objectively....its a convolution of sorts....
results of alleged ndes' experiences varies throughout history....and are mostly influenced by culture....beliefs...society...and even suggestive messages affect and produce nde's……… i bet you wouldn't believe me if i told you people become atheists after nde's just like the reverse cases you are used to hearing.....the thing is i can't suddenly say "aha,that means blah blah blah"..as you are presenting to me right now...

[/b]

May be you are looking at afterlife as a one room where everybody that enters it will have the same story to tell. Even here on earth, someone in Nigeria cannot have exact story to tell as someone in the USA will tell. Yet the after-life is far much more than here. Whether we have same story to tell is not the issue i"m raising but the fact that a lot of people of different religion have experienced this. Even if i would doubt them, i wont doubt the one of the atheists (both whites and blacks) who have experienced it and today they are no more atheists. Some of these atheists were born into the families of atheists. I have witnessed some of these happenings live and have also heard or read about some of them too.

honourhim:


Thanks bro. I do not intend to argue with you on this issue because we all will die someday. I just want to clarify the points i made. What i'm talking about is not what happened at the hour of death and the struggle/pain surrounding it. Some of these people died in accidents on the spot, some were not sick at all but died suddenly, some were also sick. The mysteries that surrounded their actions, the words of their mouth some days before their death(I mean before the accident or whatever that killed them) are things one cant have time enough to tell. But they are mysteries that makes the reality of the after life obvious to whoever that witnessed such things.

so their actions before their deaths entailed something beyond life?....elaborate please..

May be you are looking at afterlife as a one room where everybody that enters it will have the same story to tell. Even here on earth, someone in Nigeria cannot have exact story to tell as someone in the USA will tell. Yet the after-life is far much more than here. Whether we have same story to tell is not the issue i"m raising but the fact that a lot of people of different religion have experienced this. Even if i would doubt them, i wont doubt the one of the atheists (both whites and blacks) who have experienced it and today they are no more atheists. Some of these atheists were born into the families of atheists. I have witnessed some of these happenings live and have also heard or read about some of them too.

[b] I do not even have the slightest idea of what an after-life would be....nor if it does exist....there is no evidence to support it....so it doesn't apparently appear to exist....so goes any claim that cannot be proven outside people calling it "obvious"...
and whether an atheist or agnostic has an nde...doesn't make an nde into evidence of an after-life and as i've wrote earlier....nde's are historical and the experience has been linked to beliefs...societal influence...culture...suggestive messages etc...
and yet again i fail to see how because an atheist is convinced an nde is proof of an after-life...therefore it is true?.... if an atheist is convinced allah is real....does that make it true?... if an atheist is convinced that the earth is flat... does it make it true?.... so why then do you consider an atheist being convinced of a phenomenon will make it true?....and by the way....through your online research did you not also come across atheists that according to you are the prime source of evidence for life after death that remained atheist or better still theists that have become atheists through ndes...? [/b]

davien:
so their actions before their deaths entailed something beyond life?....elaborate please..

Yea, quite a good number of cases and Its better seen than told.

honourhim:


Yea, quite a good number of cases and Its better seen than told.

ok....what do i have to look out for..?

davien:
Among most if not all religions has come the promise of prolonged or everlasting life.....but how do we know this to be true?
how do we know with 100% accuracy that this is true?
For most people it is true because a book says so...
For others it is true because they can't fathom an only mortal life...
For the others still... they have convinced themselves of it being true...
Here lies the question.....when what you believe cannot be taken as true on its own merits but through unsourced and unfalsify-able ways and then passed on to others especially children as 100% accurate....is it indistinguishable from deceit?

The funny thing is that those shout most for everlasting life are usually the same ones that scoff at the concept of Karma and Reincarnation.

Everlasting life is only conceptually possible when all the components of life revert back to their form as units of energy. If and when matter reverts back to it's energy constituents, then all become one with the singularity.
There would be no individuality.

Think of this as a droplet of water finding it's way into the ocean, where it can no longer exist as a droplet, but now as one with the ocean.

Well, everlasting life is a bit of a stretch, we are not even promised tomorrow.

Sarassin:
Well, everlasting life is a bit of a stretch, we are not even promised tomorrow.

this post just made the concept of pension useless,

plaetton:


The funny thing is that those shout most for everlasting life are usually the same ones that scoff at the concept of Karma and Reincarnation.

Everlasting life is only conceptually possible when all the components of life revert back to their form as units of energy. If and when matter reverts back to it's energy constituents, then all become one with the singularity.
There would be no individuality.

Think of this as a droplet of water finding it's way into the ocean, where it can no longer exist as a droplet, but now as one with the ocean.

Hehehehehehehehe