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Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by malvisguy212: 8:36am On Oct 29, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:in this life men will always do things contrary to the will of God, nowadays pastors has there own interpretation of the word of God,they misinterpret the bible just for there own favour,example, you mention tithe, i dont want to say much about tithe because it will cause more agument.why do you pay tithe?to find profits or to help the poor?you pay tithe in other for God to enlarge your business?if you tithe, what come out from your mind judge you. Thank you for your time. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 11:13am On Oct 29, 2014 |
malvisguy212:many people dnt simply know the reason why they do what they do. They just follow the multitude whenever they are going. Imagine some pastors calling those who christ have bought with his blood robbers because they dnt pay tithe, did they think God is after money as their soul? God prefer obedience even more than sacrifice. We dnt have to offer the sacrifice of fools. The only people christ called robbers are those who are buying and selling in the house of God. Turning the house of God into a business centre. Many pastors have turned the house of God into money making ventures. The soul of men is no longer their top priority again. All they are after is money. Extorting money from the poor who should be help by the church. We must retrace our step back to where we have missed it and follow the right path. God is nt the respecter of persons. God doesn't look at how famous u are. He will cast u out if you think you are indispensable. On that day many famous pastors in Nigeria and abroad will say lord we did miracles and build mansions for you but God will say to them that he knew them not because they think they can bribe God with their fame and wealth they amass for themselves by milking the poor. Many of them keep laying up their treasure here on earth, buying jets, building schools for business, building hotels, mansions for themselves and their families, building business empires and more. God is not interested in all that as the souls of men. Money is preached more on sundays in many churches than salvation. Those who dnt have to contribute are dispised and relegated to the background. Giving the rich top positions in the church and neglecting the poor. Allow politicians to mount the alter as they like. One thing i would say is that God is watching. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Boomark(m): 11:33am On Oct 29, 2014 |
olire: Ex 24:12 The LORD said to Moses, "Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone with the law and commandments I have written for their instruction." Exodus 31:12-18 The Sabbath 12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord , who makes you holy. 14 “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. 15 For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord . Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. 16 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. ’” 18 When the Lord finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God. This is what you asked for. The Sabbath was first given to them in Ex 16:23-27. The Sabbath is a law. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 6:22am On Oct 30, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:Are you sure Boomark:By way of comic releif, I want to thank this Gy for doing my work for me |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 6:25am On Oct 30, 2014 |
Boomark:lol, I'm not contending whether its a law or not. My contention is whose law is it, God or Moses. What u have pointed out above, especially the highlighted part shows that it was written by God himself. So then again, is it still Moses' law when God wrote it initially?? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 6:40am On Oct 30, 2014 |
olire:the first one was broken by moses so God had to speak and moses had to write it down himself. by the way, what do u intend to achieve by asking all these questions? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Boomark(m): 1:42pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
olire: Even those who call it the "law of Moses" knew that Moses made no law. Don't let the title confuse you. No man makes the law on behalf of God. The Pharisees added their own laws then, the same way most churches are adding their own law to the law of Christ today. These are man-made doctrines. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Kingdompartaker: 2:25pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Sometimes I wonder, for how long will man continue to use GOD Words against GOD, we claim to be under the Law, the Law we are keeping. may GOD deliver us all |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 3:30pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Boomark:the laws of moses is the law God gave to the children of israel through moses under the old covenant. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 7:48pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:What I want to establish by asking these questions is that it is a misnomer to refer to the ten commandments as the law of Moses. They are the laws of God. The Sabbath most especially. The law of the Sabbath is the first out of the ten commandments. It was given immediately after the creation of the heavens and the earth. It is therefore wrong to refer to the Sabbath as the law of Moses. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 7:50pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
Boomark:So... U agree with me that it is wrong to refer to the ten commandments as the law of Moses. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 8:29pm On Oct 30, 2014 |
olire:so we must worship God on the sabbath day? which one then is the law of moses if it is not? are not the other law given by God through moses? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Boomark(m): 3:02am On Oct 31, 2014 |
olire: 2 Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin. For the commandment, "Thou shall not kill," killing has it consequences written in the law of Moses. The ten commandment, including the Sabbath is like a summary of the law of Moses. 1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself: The ten commandments, etc are all in the law of Moses. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 8:39pm On Oct 31, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:The ten commandments stand on a different pedestal compared to the other injunctions. The fact that they are the only ones that God used his own fingers to write shows that they are on a different level. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 8:47pm On Oct 31, 2014 |
Boomark:According to your quotation, although it is called the Law of Moses, it is actually the law of God. This is due to the fact that it was what the Lord commanded. Boomark:Here, as u can see, your own quotation refers to the law as God's own. It is named the law of Moses because it was revealed through him. It is God's own Law. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Boomark(m): 11:48am On Nov 01, 2014 |
olire: So... U agree with me that it is wrong to refer to the ten commandments as the law of Moses? I hope those bible answered your question? Or you want to go over to who really made the law? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 12:00pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
olire:Please ask him! He certainly do not know the difference between 10 Commandments and other laws |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 12:06pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:Keep deceiving yourself. Jesus came to TEACH US HOW TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. The mistake that many Christians make is merging the ceremonial, sacrificial laws in with the ten commandments, thinking that Jesus nailed it all to the cross. But that's not so. The ten commandments and the ceremonial laws are two distinct laws. The one (ten commandments), Jesus came to exalt and teach us how to keep. The other (ceremonial, sacrificial laws) were a "shadow of things to come" and "nailed to the cross". The sacrificial laws pointed to Christ Jesus as our sacrifice. But the ten commandments are God's eternal moral laws that will stand forever! |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 12:17pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:And where in the Bible did you read that Jesus or His disciples broke the Sabbath? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:15pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
enigmaotr:Jesus did nt break the sabbath. i did nt say that |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:22pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
enigmaotr:and u think christians should keep the sabbath? the sabbath law did nt stand now. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 5:23pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:If so, why then did you say we should do away with the law when in fact, Jesus practised it in His days on earth. Even Christianity as we know it now started off as a sect of Judaism. The law of God stands forever more. If He says he honors His Words more than His Name, I wonder why you think He will abolish His own laws. Which law did Jesus abolish, 10 commandments or ceremonial laws? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Nobody: 5:29pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Ukutsgp:It's not standing because the Devil has deceived the world into thinking it doesn't matter. Sabbath worship is the most important law of God. It was instituted from creation to eternity. Below is a quote from a thread I created today there are a few differing views and beliefs concerning the sabbath day throughout the mainstream Christian churches. Some believe that the sabbath dayof the 4th commandment has been abolished completely. Some believe that the sabbath day has been changed from the 7th day of the week to the 1st. And others believe that we can keep any day as the sabbath day. But, you guessed it. They are all wrong, because the 7th day sabbath still stands exactly as per the 4th commandment today. Let me share with you an interesting statement made by Christ Jesus Himself: |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by dein77(m): 5:37pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
enigmaotr: No man will go to either hell or Heaven for keeping or not keeping the Sabbath. As a matter of fact, the day we worship God is immaterial, as far as we worship Him in spirit an truth. That's the ONLY accepted condition for true worship. Apostle Paul clearly handled this matter in Romans 15 and Col 2. I advise we study them with an open mind. Shalom |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:42pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
enigmaotr: The Sabbath or the Lord's Day-Which? Some religious groups teach that it is necessary to keep the Sabbath in order to be saved. They insist that we are still under the Law. Yet, for reasons not divulged, they assume the right to remove some of the restrictions laid down in the Bible with regard to keeping the Sabbath as a day of rest. So while they contend that the keeping of the day is incumbent on the Christian, they change the nature of it by their own authority. This all adds to the confusion surrounding this annoying problem, for which the only satisfactory solution is found in the Bible. The first reference to the Sabbath is found in Genesis 2:3 : "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." The root meaning of the words "Sabbath" and "rest," as referred to in Genesis, is "to cease." After having spent six days in His creative work, God ceased from His labors. The words "evening" and "morning," however, are missing in the description of this Sabbath day. This would indicate that the first Sabbath was a continuous rest, or a continuous ceasing from labor, until the time when man fell into sin. Then God once again began His labors in creating new creatures in Christ Jesus. It cannot be overemphasized, however, that this was God's rest. No obligation on man's part to keep the Sabbath is even implied in this passage. 2500 Years of Silence After this first mention of the Sabbath, there is silence for 2500 years; not a word is given concerning it. God instituted the covenant of the Law 430 years after He had made the covenant of grace with Abraham. The first mention of the Sabbath since the time when God ceased from His labors on the seventh day is found in Exodus 16:23 : "Then he said to them, 'This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.''" |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:45pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Reference is also made to this in Nehemiah: "You came down also on Mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them just ordinances and true laws, good statutes and commandments. You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, and commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, by the hand of Moses Your servant" (9:13-14). In Exodus 20:8-11 the Sabbath law is made a part of the Ten Commandments: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Curiosity Aroused Why did God not mention the Sabbath during those 2500 years? The answer is evident when the purpose for which the Sabbath was given is realized. Exodus 31:13-17 must be carefully considered: "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.'" Ezekial 20:12 says, "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them." The Sabbath was especially instituted as a sign of separation for Israel. Any person of Israel not keeping the Sabbath was to be cut off from his people. Since it was instituted as a special sign for Israel, it could be enforced only as long as Israel was in the land of Palestine as a nation and was on proper terms with God. According to the foreknowledge of God, the Israelites were to be scattered soon after the crucifixion of Christ, and the Book of Galatians teaches that the Law was given by Moses until Christ died: "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator" (3:19). Even though Israel is back in the land now, she has not recognized her God; consequently, the sign-the Sabbath-is not yet enforced. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:50pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Christ and the Sabbath Did Christ keep the Sabbath? Certainly He did. Some Scripture passages will show why Jesus kept the Sabbath on earth. In the first place, John 1:11 says that "He came to His own"-that is, the Jews. He came for His own-the Jews. He was made under the Law and was part of the nation of Israel. The Law was not yet set aside. Galatians 4:4 tells that He came to His own: "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law." Jesus, being a Jew and living in the time when the Law was still in force, had to keep the Law, too, including the law of the Sabbath. He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" ( Matt. 5:17-18 ). As far as any human being is concerned, Christ is the only One who ever kept the Law perfectly. This proves His sinlessness. The four Gospels, which record the history of Christ's life on earth, mention the Sabbath at least 50 times. It was observed by all Jews because until the crucifixion, the disciples, as well as Christ, were still under the Law. Not until He cried, "It is finished" ( John 19:30 ) was the Law completely fulfilled. But notice-and this is very important-Christ is not spoken of once as keeping the Sabbath after the crucifixion. Instead, He left us the example of the Lord's Day. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:56pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
@enigmaotr Paul and the Sabbath What about Paul? He observed the Sabbath with the Jews until he turned completely to reaching the Gentiles. In Acts 18:4-6 Paul cleared himself of his responsibility toward his people, the Jews, and turned to the Gentiles: "And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was constrained by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ. But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them, 'Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.'" Before chapter 18 the Sabbath is mentioned eight times in the Book of the Acts. The reason for this is that Paul visited the Jew first and, of course, that was most easily done on the Sabbath, for the Jews kept the Sabbath. But when he met with the church, he always did this on the first day of the week. After Acts 18 the Sabbath is not mentioned once in the Scriptures, with the exception of Colossians 2:16 : "Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths." Here it is merely mentioned, showing that it has been abolished in view of the Dispensation of Grace. It is also noted that the other apostles observed the Sabbath together with the Jews, but they did this only when they went to the places where the Jews were. After Acts 18 we do not find another mention of the Sabbath in all of Scripture, with the one exception mentioned above. Although the apostles met with the Jews on the Sabbath day to be as Paul said, "I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some" ( 1 Cor. 9:22 ), when they met with Christians, or the church, they met on the first day of the week ( Luke 24:1 ; John 20:19 ; Acts 20:7 ; 1 Cor. 16:2 ; Rev. 1:10 ). From the above statements it can be clearly seen that the apostles, including Paul, understood very well the place and purpose of the Sabbath. It was a sign for the Jews, beginning with Moses and ending with the crucifixion of Christ. It is interesting to note that once the Jews are regathered and recognize God as their King, the Sabbath will be observed again ( Ezek. 36:16-38 ). Isaiah 56:2-3 also speaks of this time: "Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD speak, saying, 'The LORD has utterly separated me from His people'; nor let the eunuch say, 'Here I am, a dry tree.'" Since the members of His Body, the Church, are considered by Him to be neither Jew nor Gentile, the Sabbath is not for their observance. They are new creatures in Christ Jesus: "For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of division between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace." ( Eph. 2:14-15 ). As we have seen, the Sabbath in God's plan concerns only Israel. Note these truths: (1) the Sabbath law was given in Exodus 16-2500 years after creation; (2) it was given as a sign to Israel ( Ex. 31:12-1 ); (3) since Israel is scattered, the Sabbath is not now observed; the Law was finished, according to Galatians 3:19 , in Christ; (4) when the Jews are reestablished as God's earthly nation, the Sabbath will again be observed. Could there be a simpler explanation than this? |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 5:59pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
@enigmaotr Special Restrictions of the Sabbath Law There are certain facets of the Sabbath law that must be considered. First, a man was not allowed to leave his home. "See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day" ( Ex. 16:29 ). Second, a man was not even allowed to work or to build a fire: "Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, 'These are the words which the LORD has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations on the Sabbath day" (35:1-3). "Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, 'The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.' So, as the LORD commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died" ( Num. 15:32-36 ). Since God gave the commandment of the Sabbath to Israel in the land of Palestine, which has a warm climate, it was very practical. The law which prohibited building a fire on the Sabbath would not be practical for people living in certain climates, because they could not very easily go without heat in the winter. But far more crucial is the fact that those who attempt to keep God's Sabbath, which was meant for Israel, immediately place themselves under the curse of the Law. Galatians 3:10 makes this clear: "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.'" James 2:10 states, "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." If a person fails to keep all of the Law, he is under that curse. Anyone in this category would do well to admit his sinfulness and to come under God's grace, for that is his only hope. The keeping of the Law is an impossibility to man in the flesh; no one can be justified before God through it. "Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law" ( Gal. 3:21 ). Only God's grace can save us ( Eph. 2:8-9 ). Salvation is not the reward for a holy life but the gift of God to a sinner deserving judgment. The Law was given to show the exceeding sinfulness of sin ( Rom. 3:20 ; 7:1 ). To confess that salvation by Law is unattainable by man humbles him but exalts the holiness of the Law. On the other hand, to claim salvation by Law-keeping exalts man but lowers the righteousness of the Law. God has provided only one way of salvation: "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" ( Acts 4:12 ). |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:01pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
Ukutsgp: The old serpent has not changed it's tactics.
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Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 6:03pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
@ enigmaotr The Christian's Day of Worship Is there a day which believers should set aside to worship the Lord? There is one day-the first day of the week. That is the day on which Jesus rose from the dead, and it is also the day He chose to meet with His disciples after His resurrection. This was not a Sabbath day, or a rest day, it was a day of ceaseless activity. The Lord Jesus was very busy on the resurrection day. The false conception of so many is that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, and since the Sabbath is a day of rest, the Sabbath laws are applied to Sunday. This has resulted in untold harm. The average Christian, instead of making the Lord's Day one of service, has made it one of rest and feasting. That is not the purpose of the Lord's Day. That is merely a perversion of the Jewish Sabbath day. Christians need to wake up and to grasp the meaning of this resurrection day. Souls need to be rescued from darkness, and only the gospel of Jesus Christ can accomplish this. "Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin" ( James 4:17 ). One might say, "But I don't dare mention that in my church; it would only stir up a lot of trouble." That is true. It is hard to stand against traditions, but I challenge each believer to yield himself to the Lord in this matter. Thus, by the example of Christ Himself and later by the apostles, we see that the first day of the week, known as the Lord's Day, was especially set apart as a day of service for God. Some seem to think that it is worse for one to sin on Sunday than on any other day of the week. I believe that this is wrong. The Bible teaches that it is displeasing to God for one to yield to the Devil on any day of the week. Christians must live so that their consciences will be void of offense before God every day. In addition, they can make Sunday a day of special worship and service. |
Re: Many Churches Are Still Following The Law Of Moses. by Ukutsgp(m): 6:05pm On Nov 01, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU:u are that serpent. |
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