ayoku777:


Don't establish doctrine with one verse or passage.

Paul talked about another tongues in 1Cor 14v2 that is spoken only to God and NO MAN understands him

1Cor 14v2 -For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This tongues is for personal edification, its directed to God, and doesn't require interpretaion to be effective.

And also there are instances where God granted the desires of His people contrary to His will.

Numbers 14v28-29 -Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the Lord, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do unto you:

Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness.

God also granted their wish when they requested for a King.

1Samuel 8v7,9 -And the Lord said unto Samuel, hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me that I should not reign over them.

Now therefore hearken unto their voice.

Jesus also said in Matthew 26v53 -

Thinkest thou not that I cannot now pray to my Father, and He shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must thus be?

So if Christ had prayed to be rescued, the Father would have done just that, even though it would have be contrary to scripture and the will of the Father.

We need to mature until our prayers align with His purpose, but to say our prayers make no different has no basis in scripture.

God's purpose is not done in our lives whether or not we pray.

God is sovereign but He doesn't always super-impose His sovereignty on us.

If He does that, then everyone will be born again, and every born again person will be Christ-like and mature. Since that is His will.

But that is not the case because we have a part to play in causing His will to be done in our personal lives. And prayer is one of the ways we do that.

I like the bold, hope shdemidemi is putting on his thinking cap.

vooks:
So what is Paul saying here?

1 Corinthians 14:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Lol, you are wasting your time. The guy would delve into a long chocking eisegesis and irrelevancies instead of believing this clear statement from Paul.

vooks:
We have been called to destroy arguments that's what I learnt from the Strange Fire Conference. Stop hiding behind some esoterical 'context', this verse says EXACTLY what it says. Even heathens would understand it's plain reading without shdemidemi 'context' theories. You may want to explain the highlighted to us mere mortals in your own words or from ANY version or paraphrase and in ANY language

1 Corinthians 14:5 (KJV)
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

What Paul wished for these people was to speak a language that could be put in to words. A language that someone around will also be able to interpret to the congregation. It isn't what the 'church' do today, where they all speak in tongues (gibberish) against the instruction of the Apostle.

The best that can happen if the church interpret tongues according to 1 cor 14:5 is to be at par with prophesying. Paul made it clear he would rather have them do prophesying/teaching head on to blowing hot air.

When a toddler speaks, we say things like only God understand what the child is saying. This is exactly what Paul was saying- no one understand you, I will rather have you speak what we all understand so we can all be built in God.

vooks:
Nobody interpreted tongues on Pentecost nor in any of the other three instances we have recorded of tongues. If Pentecostal churches you frequent don't interpret tongues, that's their experience. We don't use 2014 experience to water down what Holy Spirit inspired Paul to record. Any language you don't understand is gibberish. I don't understand your pidgin nor Yoruba. So if I visited your church and you rehashed your unknown tongue versus speaking in tongues theories in Yoruba,you'd be talking gibberish to me

Same case if you were praying. I can't say Amen to your prayers. Now, if I prayed in tongues and that tongue happened to be Yoruba, you would understand what am saying. But if I prayed in tongues in Yoruba in Budapest, I'd be praying gibberish

Why would they speak in tongues at Pentecost? It was real. They were not just talking nonsense..illiterates were speaking things beyond their capacity.

Paul came back to give these regulation as a guide because it was abused in this church. This church mirrors today's church, they love to show off with their supposed God given gifts. Paul had to address the issue by telling them they can't all have the showy gifts and how they should have love for one another before any spiritual gift. They were getting the whole thing wrong just like we are today.

vooks:
Any language you don't understand is gibberish. I don't understand your pidgin nor Yoruba. So if I visited your church and you rehashed your unknown tongue versus speaking in tongues theories in Yoruba,you'd be talking gibberish to me

Same case if you were praying. I can't say Amen to your prayers. Now, if I prayed in tongues and that tongue happened to be Yoruba, you would understand what am saying. But if I prayed in tongues in Yoruba in Budapest, I'd be praying gibberish

There is a difference between languages and gibberish. I don't speak spanish but I can sure tell the difference between 'amigo' and 'prokotoloshamoraba'. Unknown tongue is not a language, it is a lazy way of praying by moving your mouth freely without thinking much.

I second ayoku777.

Shdemidemi believes prayer is a mere psychological exercise where you get it off your chest by ranting before God. For him, NOTHING is accomplished by prayer that was not God's will so prayer or no prayer, His will prevails.
That is the most m0ronic version of fatalism. What about scriptures, or evangelism? Why preach the gospel?

Bidam:
I like the bold, hope shdemidemi is putting on his thinking cap.

vooks:
I find it decidedly ironical that you call upon me to THINK
Pentecost lasted one day, the Day of Pentecost. On that day, there was a mighty rushing wind, tongues of fires and baptism of the Holy Spirit.
On one other ocassion we have rushing wind and NO tongues. On the remaining two occasions, we have no rushing wind nor tongues of fire ,but we have Baptism of the Holy Spirit. In all these four occasions, the baptism is followed by speaking in tongues

This tells me baptism of the Holy Spirit and tongues is the common denominator.

What was the effect of pentecost? It was to empower the Apostles.

The glory of God was present and powerful around this time that people died instantly for lying. The Apostles had so much power that people needed them to receive the Holy Spirit. All these things aren't so today, that period initiated a new dispensation of Grace. Tongues will not add to you or the church today- only the Word can do that.

vooks:

Now, James was killed and never raised back from the dead but LONG AFTER this, we have Eutychus and Tabitha raised from the dead! So much for your diminishing theory

Ask yourself if Peter wouldn't raise James if it was all in his hands to decide who stays dead or who deserves to come back to life. The Apostles latched unto what the Spirit was doing at all times. They were mere tools used by the Spirit, they had no power or agenda within them to do any mighty works.

shdemidemi:


What Paul wished for these people was to speak a language that could be put in to words. A language that someone around will also be able to interpret to the congregation. It isn't what the 'church' do today, where they all speak in tongues (gibberish) against the instruction of the Apostle.

My brother, interpreting tongues is a GIFT of the Holy Spirit. If I spoke in Yoruba and a Yoruba believer understood what am saying, that is no gift of the Holy Ghost. Interpretation of tongues is supernatural comprehension of a language you have never learnt. In its absence, there was no need for public tongues

The best that can happen if the church interpret tongues according to 1 cor 14:5 is to be at par with prophesying. Paul made it clear he would rather have them do prophesying/teaching head on to blowing hot air.

When a toddler speaks, we say things like only God understand what the child is saying. This is exactly what Paul was saying- no one understand you, I will rather have you speak what we all understand so we can all be built in God.

Once again, your beef with what 'church do today' does not substract from Holy Spirit inspiration. The solution is to go back to scriptures not to dismiss tongues

Why would they speak in tongues at Pentecost? It was real. They were not just talking nonsense..illiterates were speaking things beyond their capacity.

Paul came back to give these regulation as a guide because it was abused in this church. This church mirrors today's church, they love to show off with their supposed God given gifts. Paul had to address the issue by telling them they can't all have the showy gifts and how they should have love for one another before any spiritual gift. They were getting the whole thing wrong just like we are today.

There is a difference between languages and gibberish. I don't speak spanish but I can sure tell the difference between 'amigo' and 'prokotoloshamoraba'. Unknown tongue is not a language, it is a lazy way of praying by moving your mouth freely without thinking much.

There are over 3,000 languages and dialects in the world not to mention hundreds of extinct languages, and it is highly probable that not every congregation is represented by believers who understand ALL of these at the same time. Common sense demands that I don't dismiss tongues I don't understand because I can only speak four languages of the 3,000

shdemidemi:


What was the effect of pentecost? It was to empower the Apostles.
The glory of God was present and powerful around this time that people died instantly for lying. The Apostles had so much power that people needed them to receive the Holy Spirit. All these things aren't so today, that period initiated a new dispensation of Grace. Tongues will not add to you or the church today- only the Word can do that.

Correction my broda,
On Pentecost they had at least 120 out of whom ONLY 12 were apostles. The empowerment was therefore not a reserve of the 12 but EVERYONE. Peter later preaching said the very things they were observing was for them, their children and as many as the Lord may call

Acts 2:38-39 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized [size=20pt]every one of you[/size] in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Paul an apostle under the inspiration of Holy Ghost says tongues edifies and Shdemidemi blowing hot air says tongues don't edify. Who is right?

1 Corinthians 8:1 King James Version (KJV)
8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
LOVE too edifies not just tongues.

I pray you may outgrow inventing strawman arguments and false dilemmas to disguise your weak arguments. Being edified by tongues or Love does not negate scriptures; they are not mutually exclusive. It is not either you are edified by tongues or scriptures, it is both. Remember it is the very WORD of God that teaches us that tongues and Love edifies.
If I read scriptures and learnt about Love and applied the same and was edified, was I edified by love or scriptures?

Ask yourself if Peter wouldn't raise James if it was all in his hands to decide who stays dead or who deserves to come back to life. The Apostles latched unto what the Spirit was doing at all times. They were mere tools used by the Spirit, they had no power or agenda within them to do any mighty works.

ALL God's miracles are wrought by Holy Spirit working through believers. Minus the Spirit, we can't do nothing. This was so in the First Century church, it is so today

vooks:
I second ayoku777.

Shdemidemi believes prayer is a mere psychological exercise where you get it off your chest by ranting before God. For him, NOTHING is accomplished by prayer that was not God's will so prayer or no prayer, His will prevails.
That is the most m0ronic version of fatalism. What about scriptures, or evangelism? Why preach the gospel?

Lol @m0ronic version of fatalism. Chei, you don finish shdemidemi, abeg softly softly.

ayoku777:


Don't establish doctrine with one verse or passage.

I won't, I don't. All I did was respond to what you wrote.

ayoku777:

Paul talked about another tongues in 1Cor 14v2 that is spoken only to God and NO MAN understands him

1Cor 14v2 -For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

More like what a baby does.. they speak mysteries only God understand. That's all Paul was saying, he wasn't encouraging or corroborating that but he was taking tem through his teachings to a place where it will no be about 'I' but about 'our'.

ayoku777:
This tongues is for personal edification, its directed to God, and doesn't require interpretaion to be effective.

To what effect really?

You even went as far as saying you used it to stand in the gap for your friend, really?

God never encourage 'self'- self leads to selfishness, self centeredness, self aggrandisement et al ...SELF is a god in its own right.

Jesus taught us to deny self to be fit to disciple

Paul says we are dead to self but alive to God. We don't own ourself any more but owned by God.

Jesus also taught his disciples to pray, not once did he teach them to use the 'I' pronoun, it was either 'our' or 'we'.

ayoku777:
And also there are instances where God granted the desires of His people contrary to His will.

Numbers 14v28-29 -Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the Lord, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do unto you:

Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness.

God also granted their wish when they requested for a King.

1Samuel 8v7,9 -And the Lord said unto Samuel, hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me that I should not reign over them.

Now therefore hearken unto their voice.

When you walk out of God and His will you are walking in to error. The people ran in to error, they saw what it meant for supplanting their king(God) for a human king. Why do you think Peter wanted the kingdom of God to return to Israel?

God gives you a chance to make a choice, that is one thing he gives to all man- VOLITION. When you refuse to go God's way, you will eventually discover that His way is far more better than anything you can dream up.

The story of the prodigal son says it all. You want your part of the father's goodies and walk away, fine. He won't force you to stay! But a time will come when you will discover yourself and realise that the pigs remnant is all that you have outside God.

ayoku777:

Jesus also said in Matthew 26v53 -

Thinkest thou not that I cannot now pray to my Father, and He shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must thus be?

So if Christ had prayed to be rescued, the Father would have done just that, even though it would have be contrary to scripture and the will of the Father.

We need to mature until our prayers align with His purpose, but to say our prayers make no different has no basis in scripture.

Jesus was sold out to God and His will. He wouldn't do anything outside God's will though He has his volition.

ayoku777:
We need to mature until our prayers align with His purpose,

Correct statement. Not just that, we need to get to a place in our walk with God where only God's purpose is all that matter. A place where the Word unite our heart to fear God's will.

ayoku777:
God's purpose is not done in our lives whether or not we pray.

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

It is not about whatever you think you can come up with. Job found no reason whatsoever why he should go through all he went through. He believed he met the condition of tradition, experience and legalism but God showed Him how foolish his words were.

ayoku777:
God is sovereign but He doesn't always super-impose His sovereignty on us.

Just like the prodigal son- you re right. But you don't ever want to do things your way. God knows better and His thoughts towards you are too good and yours is as evil as evil can be no matter how right you think your idea is.

ayoku777:
If He does that, then everyone will be born again, and every born again person will be Christ-like and mature. Since that is His will.

But that is not the case because we have a part to play in causing His will to be done in our personal lives. And prayer is one of the ways we do that.

No man will choose God today if He did not choose us. The bible says 'You did not call me but I called you'. So it is His power to call anyone and when comes calling, rust me no man can say no. He called you and He did so for a purpose so do what He called you to do, we are not in the place to ask Him to call all men.

One thing God does is make us do what He wants done even when we think we are carrying out our own volition. I can't explain how he does that. He said two boys will be born from the same womb, and the older will serve the younger. These boys were going about their own business but fulfilled what was written by God before they were born.

The same God said Christ will be born in Bethlehem, Joseph and Mary had to be chased from the city they lived to Bethlehem in the middle night just to give birth to Jesus.

God certainly has a hand in all that His chosen people do.

vooks:

My brother, interpreting tongues is a GIFT of the Holy Spirit. If I spoke in Yoruba and a Yoruba believer understood what am saying, that is no gift of the Holy Ghost. Interpretation of tongues is supernatural comprehension of a language you have never learnt. In its absence, there was no need for public tongues

People understood what Peter and the rest spoke at Pentecost. Would they really need an interpreter in the context of the tongues in Acts 2? No. These gift of interpretation was a way of making them stick to that which is profitable and greater in a place where tongues have been abused.

We don't see interpreters of gibberish in the church, all we see are speakers of gibberish. Is this not going against the teachings of Paul himself?

vooks:

Once again, your beef with what 'church do today' does not substract from Holy Spirit inspiration. The solution is to go back to scriptures not to dismiss tongues

I am showing you where you get your warped idea of tongues. Its from this church and a poor holistic understanding of what the Apostle was looking to achieve.

The best church Paul had never mentioned tongues, in fact no other church mentioned it. Trust the spiritually weak to pick their major doctrine from a book of correction and rebuke due to carnality.

vooks:

There are over 3,000 languages and dialects in the world not to mention hundreds of extinct languages, and it is highly probable that not every congregation is represented by believers who understand ALL of these at the same time. Common sense demands that I don't dismiss tongues I don't understand because I can only speak four languages of the 3,000

Bro, whatever the language we will be deceiving ourself if we say 'brojkdkjdkkddkdkk' means a thing. Put the mooted argument away, where are the interpreters?

shdemidemi:


People understood what Peter and the rest spoke at Pentecost. Would they really need an interpreter in the context of the tongues in Acts 2? No. These gift of interpretation was a way of making them stick to that which is profitable and greater in a place where tongues have been abused.

The reason they understood is because there was a gathering for the Feast in Jerusalem devout Jews from so many (at least 15) parts of the world and each heard the Galilean speak their own language/dialect. Common sense tells you if the gathering was not there, few to nobody would have understood
Acts 2:8-11 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

We don't see interpreters of gibberish in the church, all we see are speakers of gibberish. Is this not going against the teachings of Paul himself?

Then the solution is to go back to Pauline regulations of the gifts not to discard them and pretend they don't exist

I am showing you where you get your warped idea of tongues. Its from this church and a poor holistic understanding of what the Apostle was looking to achieve.

AM showing you Holy Spirit spoke by the pen of Paul the Apostle and that's all that matters. Were those words inspired or not?

The best church Paul had never mentioned tongues, in fact no other church mentioned it. Trust the spiritually weak to pick their major doctrine from a book of correction and rebuke due to carnality.

That is the gospel according to you. I only need to hear ONCE from Holy Spirit to believe it. If you need repetition, you are on your own bro. Ephesians dwell at length on husband-wife relationship. The same is not mentioned in Romans. Does that make whatever Paul says about marriage to Ephesus localized and thus less universal?

Bro, whatever the language we will be deceiving ourself if we say 'brojkdkjdkkddkdkk' means a thing. Put the mooted argument away, where are the interpreters?

Tongues like interpretation are gifts of the Holy Spirit. How would Mandarin sound to you?

You need to have some reverence for the Word of God. He has esteemed His Word above His name (Psalms 138:2) and you are busy trashing it? Holy Spirit is telling you tongues edify and you are drowning in your obtuseness by insisting they don't. You are fighting God to keep your religious garbage

vooks:

1 Corinthians 8:1 King James Version (KJV)
8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
LOVE too edifies not just tongues.

Do you even understand what LOVE means? Love isn't self. Love is putting your brother before yourself.

Love is not self edification.

Love is the fruit of studying the Word

God/Jesus/the Word(Spirit) is Love

All these edify when we understand the Word not gibberish my brother.

vooks:

ALL God's miracles are wrought by Holy Spirit working through believers. Minus the Spirit, we can't do nothing. This was so in the First Century church, it is so today

This is exactly what I am saying. No one should present himself as one that has a power to call miracle at their whims and caprices. God remains sovereign.

If God gives christians power to do as they will for one hour, you and I won't be here, we will be dead. I say we won't be here because some christian somewhere might see us as his enemy and quickly decree that we die. When you hear what some christians pray for you will understand why God hold all powers to Himself.

shdemidemi:


Do you even understand what LOVE means? Love isn't self. Love is putting your brother before yourself.

Love is not self edification.

Love is the fruit of studying the Word

God/Jesus/the Word(Spirit) is Love

All these edify when we understand the Word not gibberish my brother.

At this point, I look to Jesus CHrist and how he responded to Satan, IT IS WRITTEN
1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
If this is not enough for you, nothing will EVER deliver you.

This is exactly what I am saying. No one should present himself as one that has a power to call miracle at their whims and caprices. God remains sovereign.

If God gives christians power to do as they will for one hour, you and I won't be here, we will be dead. I say we won't be here because some christian somewhere might see us as his enemy and quickly decree that we die. When you hear what some christians pray for you will understand why God hold all powers to Himself.

Again just as my Master would have the devil, IT IS WRITTEN
James 5:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
The same man who teaches us to say 'God willing' teaches us to pray for the sick while Shdemidemi would have us rant to GOd about our issues to get them off our chest...very therapeutic excuse for impotence

vooks:

The reason they understood is because there was a gathering for the Feast in Jerusalem devout Jews from so many (at least 15) parts of the world and each heard the Galilean speak their own language/dialect. Common sense tells you if the gathering was not there, few to nobody would have understood
Acts 2:8-11 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

[5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Why was tongues given by God at this time?

It was a perfect occasion, every nation under heaven was represented here. What better time could the Holy Spirit have announced Himself to the world. The tongue at pentecost will be of no use if nobody there understands what the people were saying. The bible says everybody heard them speak in his local dialect. I don't understand why you can't see beyond your nose on this isuue.

vooks:

Then the solution is to go back to Pauline regulations of the gifts not to discard them and pretend they don't exist

Even if you go back, where is the interpreter? none.

Why don't you heed Paul's advice by holding to the greater gift of prophecy.

vooks:
AM showing you Holy Spirit spoke by the pen of Paul the Apostle and that's all that matters. Were those words inspired or not?

This is where you must rightly divide and not misrepresent scripture. If self edification by tongue is so important or relevant to the body, we would have seen Paul, Timothy, Peter do it but no, they never did.

vooks:
Ephesians dwell at length on husband-wife relationship. The same is not mentioned in Romans. Does that make whatever Paul says about this localized and thus less universal?

says who?

vooks:


James 5:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
The same man who teaches us to say 'God willing' teaches us to pray for the sick while Shdemidemi would have us rant to GOd about our issues to get them off our chest...very therapeutic excuse for impotence

So when you are sick, you go to church for oil and not the hospital?

This is what lack of understanding of the word does- Delusion in high places.

shdemidemi:


[5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Why was tongues given by God at this time?

It was a perfect occasion, every nation under heaven was represented here. What better time could the Holy Spirit have announced Himself to the world. The tongue at pentecost will be of no use if nobody there understands what the people were saying. The bible says everybody heard them speak in his local dialect. I don't understand why you can't see beyond your nose on this isuue.

1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
The 120 NEVER understood what they were saying. Those who did heard them praising. It is important to note that despite them understanding what they were saying, some dismissed them as drunks. Little wonder then that tongues not understood is gibberish to you

Even if you go back, where is the interpreter? none.

Paul recommends INTERPRETATION which is a gift. We should desire not just tongues but interpretation as well

Why don't you heed Paul's advice by holding to the greater gift of prophecy.

All gifts are given by Holy Spirit as he purposes but we are exhorted to desire prophecy and interpreting tongues

This is where you must rightly divide and not misrepresent scripture. If self edification by tongue is so important or relevant to the body, we would have seen Paul, Timothy, Peter do it but no, they never did.

Common sense is the most abused term. Here is why, if they prayed in tongues and they were edified, how would that be recorded? on DVDs? How many Timothy prayers are recorded? Did he ever pray?

1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

says who?

Show me marriage teachings from Romans

I fight diseases with EVERYTHING, prayers, medical science and living a healthy lifestyle

shdemidemi:


So when you are sick, you go to church for oil and not the hospital?

This is what lack of understanding of the word does- Delusion in high places.

vooks:
I fight diseases with EVERYTHING, prayers, medical science and living a healthy lifestyle

James did not tell his audience to do that though. He said-
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Is that what you do? No.

Ordinarily you have flouted that instruction, if what you do is visit medical science for solution.

Nor did Paul prescribe that for Timothy's ailments. I have the entire 66 books not just James. That spares me tunnel vision and other idiocies such as an-unknown-tongue vs tongues Shdemidemi-esque religious garbage

shdemidemi:


James did not tell his audience to do that though. He said-
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Is that what you do? No.

Ordinarily you have flouted that instruction, if what you do is visit medical science for solution.

vooks:


1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
The 120 NEVER understood what they were saying. Those who did heard them praising. It is important to note that despite them understanding what they were saying, some dismissed them as drunks. Little wonder then that tongues not understood is gibberish to you

They were not talking rubbish like the corinthian church. They were not abusing the gift at Pentecost so there is a difference between these two tongues.

They did not need interpreters because every one heard them in the languages.

Some people called them drunks is not sufficient enough to claim they were doing what the church in Corinth did. Even if they had rushed out to speak in their local dialect some might as well call them drunks.

vooks:


Paul recommends INTERPRETATION which is a gift. We should desire not just tongues but interpretation as well
All gifts are given by Holy Spirit as he purposes but we are exhorted to desire prophecy and interpreting tongues

Get interpreters first while you are at it tell bidam and other churches to stop disobeying Paul's instruction on the matter.

vooks:

Common sense is the most abused term. Here is why, if they prayed in tongues and they were edified, how would that be recorded? on DVDs? How many Timothy prayers are recorded? Did he ever pray?

You couldn't have been more right on the abuse of common sense. If the bible recorded the thoughts of people's mind, what is then difficult to record something that you hold in lofty esteem.

Paul instructed the church to pray, He instructed Timothy in particular on how and what to pray at gatherings so that isn't an apt question. He never told him to make some vulgar utterances for any reason.
1 Timothy 2
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people--

vooks:


Show me marriage teachings from Romans

Paul used a marriage situation to explain what it means to be bought by God from the slave market and what is expected from the slave.
Romans 7
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

shdemidemi:


They were not talking rubbish like the corinthian church. They were not abusing the gift at Pentecost so there is a difference between these two tongues.

I don't know what you mean by rubbish. Whatever Corinthians did came from the Spirit. If Holy Spirit utterances are rubbish, I'd rather that any time to your scripture illiteracy trash

They did not need interpreters because every one heard them in the languages.

Interpretation of tongues is a spiritual gift. Why is it necessary? Why does the Holy Spirit go out of His way to give this precious gift that elevates tongues to prophecy?

Some people called them drunks is not sufficient enough to claim they were doing what the church in Corinth did. Even if they had rushed out to speak in their local dialect some might as well call them drunks.

They spoke in tongues, Corinthians spoke in tongues. You need a degree in logic to equate the two?

Get interpreters first while you are at it tell bidam and other churches to stop disobeying Paul's instruction on the matter.

Start revering the Word of God before calling Holy Spirit utterances gibberish and spreading your impotence all over

You couldn't have been more right on the abuse of common sense. If the bible recorded the thoughts of people's mind, what is then difficult to record something that you hold in lofty esteem.

Tongues are gifts. I didn't ask for them, nor did the apostles. I esteem what Holy Spirit is doing in my life. Feel free to trash that

Paul instructed the church to pray, He instructed Timothy in particular on how and what to pray at gatherings so that isn't an apt question. He never told him to make some vulgar utterances for any reason.
1 Timothy 2
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people--

The same Paul by the Holy Spirit records

1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Paul used a marriage situation to explain what it means to be bought by God from the slave market and what is expected from the slave.
Romans 7
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Paul is teaching about covenants not marriage. I asked for marriage teachings in Romans

vooks:
Nor did Paul prescribe that for Timothy's ailments. I have the entire 66 books not just James. That spares me tunnel vision and other idiocies such as an-unknown-tongue vs tongues Shdemidemi-esque religious garbage

If Paul prescribed alcohol for Timothy, what does that tell you? If oil could do it, he would simply tell him to take oil but he opted for a form of anaesthetic to ease the pain. Mind you, this is not a one off problem, Timothy had been suffering from the stomach pain before the particular recorded instance.

vooks:

I don't know what you mean by rubbish. Whatever Corinthians did came from the Spirit. If Holy Spirit utterances are rubbish, I'd rather that any time to your scripture illiteracy trash


Interpretation of tongues is a spiritual gift. Why is it necessary? Why does the Holy Spirit go out of His way to give this precious gift that elevates tongues to prophecy?

They spoke in tongues, Corinthians spoke in tongues. You need a degree in logic to equate the two?


Start revering the Word of God before calling Holy Spirit utterances gibberish and spreading your impotence all over

Tongues are gifts. I didn't ask for them, nor did the apostles. I esteem what Holy Spirit is doing in my life. Feel free to trash that



The same Paul by the Holy Spirit records

1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


Paul is teaching about covenants not marriage. I asked for marriage teachings in Romans

ok..I will let you the last say.

I have the benefit of the entire canon of 66 books to deal with my health. Part of that is to anoint and pray for the sick not just wait to die. I choose to run to God over your impotence

shdemidemi:



If Paul prescribed alcohol for Timothy, what does that tell you? If oil could do it, he would simply tell him to take oil but he opted for a form of anaesthetic to ease the pain. Mind you, this is not a one off problem, Timothy had been suffering from the stomach pain before the particular recorded instance.

The Gospel according to Shdemidemi;

shdemidemi:


Tongues or praying all together never edify anyone.

Holy Spirit through the inspired pen of Paul the apostle;
1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

I chose the word of God over your garbage. Am sorry if I esteem His revelation infinitesimally higher than your puny brains imagination

shdemidemi:


ok..I will let you the last say.

vooks:
I have the benefit of the entire canon of 66 books to deal with my health. Part of that is to anoint and pray for the sick not just wait to die. I choose to run to God over your impotence

Unfortunately I don't have 66, I have far less. Remember I was birthed at the death of Christ and my Apostle is Paul (Apostle sent to the non-jews), so I live my life based on instructions given to me by the one sent forth by Jesus to me.

I don't use oil, animals or any thing of the nature but I use hospitals [s]and if its not very serious, say a slight head ache, I use Anadin[/s] for my body and the Word of God for my soul.

vooks:
The Gospel according to Shdemidemi;


Holy Spirit through the inspired pen of Paul the apostle;
1 Corinthians 14:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

I chose the word of God over your garbage. Am sorry if I esteem His revelation infinitesimally higher than your puny brains imagination

I chose the word of God over your garbage. Am sorry if I esteem His revelation infinitesimally higher than your puny brains imagination

I laugh in Yoruba

shdemidemi:

una don finish fight? Ok back to Op now.