TimmyTimmy I could care less if you replied or not....just stop spewing willful dishonesty..
And if you feel I made any bias statement, by all means show me...

MissTeaseMe:

Just watched it. It may be controversial and insulting to the sensitivity of a christain or muslim, BUT THERE IS A LOAD OF SENSE IN THE VIDEO. God presented to us by religion is so ungodly i must confess. Watch with an open mind before you judge me. I am saying this for the first time tho i have pondered on it a lot.
I strongly suspect that our doctrines are all created by man so has to have a hold on society and determine it's course.

For now i am very skeptical about all religion teaches.

There was a reason the devil choose a woman to deceive first, they can be easily influenced and manipulated by what they see because they want to gain something .
Seun has chosen you wisely

ITbomb:

There was a reason the devil choose a woman to deceive first, they can be easily influenced and manipulated by what they see because they want to gain something .
Seun has chosen you wisely

Male chauvinism at its purest...

davien:
TimmyTimmy I could care less if you replied or not....just stop spewing willful dishonesty..
And if you feel I made any bias statement, by all means show me...

Thanks but I decline. Go back and read all your religious posts in NL.Somewhere along the line, it became more than the search for truth for you. It became about honour and pride.However, the only thing I can tell you is, even if you you don't believe in God, try your best to love the ones who don't believe what you believe. Goodluck.

NB: This is is probably the last time I'll quote you.

Timmytimmy:


Thanks but I decline.

You decline showing me the alleged "bias statement" I made...how predictable....

Go back and read all your religious posts in NL.Somewhere along the line, it became more than the search for truth for you. It became about honour and pride.

Pride and honour in what?...a disbelief? Your premises never followed and you performed a lot of fallacies(mainly equivocation) in your argument....something someone who quests for truth can't stand...

However, the only thing I can tell you is, even if you you don't believe in God, try your best to love the ones who don't believe what you believe. Goodluck.

You don't have to tell me that....the best of friends I've ever had were theists, honest and intellectual theists at that....
If challenging the christian "god" claims makes you feel uneasy, do not present them in an open arena that can prompt responses and critiques...

NB: This is is probably the last time I'll quote you.

I am indifferent to you..

I see yaba left escapees all over d thread. *spits on d op and runs away to avoid attack from his yabaleft colleagues*

Seun:
The Meaning of Life


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_9QmM6TfE

i watched the video, it's unfortunately a mischievous misinterpretation of the christian message and the Bible. It is what they think believers think. BTW, who said real love is unconditional? Can you give us an example of real love, so that we can test its unconditionality. Give us an example of what you love and let us see how unconditional it is.

To the video,
The video starts off with some extreme idea about praise which is not really what God is asking for. God is not asking that we spend our lives SAYING "praise the maker, thank you". Nobody in the Bible lived that way, not even Jesus who is supposed to be our perfect example. God created us to show forth His praise and that our lives should glorify Him. What that means in its proper context and true perspective is that everything that we do should be in accordance with God's will. When we are loving others and making the world a better place, our lives are praising God, glorifying God and fulfilling His will. Laziness and unproductivity is not pleasing to God, or glorifying Him. Sin is not praising God, lying, fighting, stealing, unforgiving attitude is not praising God. Honesty, diligence, dutifulness, righteousness, justice is praising God. To reduce praising God to some robotic mumbling and repetition, or to only singing is either ignorance or mischief.
Also God did not give us freewill in order for us to do whatever we want(which the video depicts as orgies, disobedience and sodomy). He gave us free will to make us different from other parts of His creation. God made the stars and the planets, and they are all said to be doing His will. In that sense, they are all glorifying Him and speaking of or showing His wondrous works.
Psa 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge.
Psa 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

The planets are doing what God sent them to do, the earth is rotating at the speed God wants it to and moving in the exact orbit God asked it to. It has no freewill. The plants and animals are living things and are doing what they are meant to do. They are giving us the oxygen we need, the carbon, the energy, the calories etc. They do not have freewill neither can they exercise it even if they had. We kill them and use them for food and cloth and game and whatever else. There is no moral law guiding against McDonalds killing a million turkeys daily. We can harvest bananas anytime we feel like, ripe or unripe. but we can't tamer with the human race the same way. We are unique, having freewill. Freewill is ability to make decisions. We can decide stuff as buying a phone, or browsing, or sleeping, or what to eat etc. Plants and animals hardly make such choice. A lion cannot decide to eat fried grass or learn how to squeal like a pig. Plants don't sleep when they like, they are programmed as it were. Cows don't learn how to swim, its in them. A misuse and abuse of freewill will surely have ramifications, freewill is not freedom to misbehave.

Again, back to the video. God didn't make a bunch of sinners or of bad men. Everything He made was GOOD. Adam was made with capacity and ability to obey God. The creation is not necessarily bad because the Creator is bad. The Bible shows us what made Adam bad, that was the devil and sin. Nairaland did not crash earlier this year because Seun crashed. Seun explained and apologized that Nairaland crashed due to the work of some other people/saboteurs. One can make a perfect, good, beauty of a 2014 Toyota car. That the car later has an accident is not necessarily the fault of Toyota. It could be a lot of other reasons like carelessness on the part of the driver, overspeeding, drunkeness, distractions while driving, bad road etc.

Image123:
The video starts off with some extreme idea about praise which is not really what God is asking for. God is not asking that we spend our lives SAYING "praise the maker, thank you". Nobody in the Bible lived that way, not even Jesus who is supposed to be our perfect example.

Revelations 4 talks about four "beasts full of eyes" in the presence of God. It says, "day and night, they never stop saying, Holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and is to come". It also talks about 24 elders who fall down before God's thrown and worship him constantly, laying their crowns before him and saying "you are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory honor and power, for you created all things and by your will they are created and have their being." This is pretty close to what the video humorously portrays.
Source: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%204&version=NIV

The plants and animals are living things and are doing what they are meant to do.

Really? So when a lion, wolf or or other wild animal kills a baby, it's just doing what it's meant to do? When Ebola virus causes people to bleed to a horrible death, it's doing what it's meant to do?

[Animals] do not have freewill neither can they exercise it even if they had. ...
Freewill is ability to make decisions.

You don't know anything about animals if you think they don't make decisions. My dog makes decisions all the time. For example, he makes decisions about whether to obey me or disobey me. Wild animals make decisions about whether to rest or to hunt, whether to fight or to have sex.

Again, back to the video. God didn't make a bunch of sinners or of bad men. Everything He made was GOOD. Adam was made with capacity and ability to obey God. The creation is not necessarily bad because the Creator is bad. The Bible shows us what made Adam bad, that was the devil and sin.

Ok, so: who created the devil?

Seun:

Revelations 4 talks about four "beasts full of eyes" in the presence of God. It says, "day and night, they never stop saying, Holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and is to come". It also talks about 24 elders who fall down before God's thrown and worship him constantly, laying their crowns before him and saying "you are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory honor and power, for you created all things and by your will they are created and have their being." This is pretty close to what the video humorously portrays.
Source: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%204&version=NIV


Really? So when a lion, wolf or or other wild animal kills a baby, it's just doing what it's meant to do? When Ebola virus causes people to bleed to a horrible death, it's doing what it's meant to do?


You don't know anything about animals if you think they don't make decisions. My dog makes decisions all the time. For example, he makes decisions about whether to obey me or disobey me. Wild animals make decisions about whether to rest or to hunt, whether to fight or to have sex.


Ok, so: who created the devil?

I hope this account was hacked to make you look stupid. all ur questions has been answered but unfortunately u can't still accept the incongruity of that video

Seun:
I didn't create these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1BzP1wr234

The video shows a woman brutally assaulted and her son killed. Then there is a certain jeffrey or geofrrey flying around and supposed reasoning with one man in white that is allegedly God.
The video again displays either a lack of understanding and gross ignorance of the Bible, or a deliberate and mischievous disregard for what the Bible says. The video depicts God as uncaring and unconcerned about the suffering and evil in the earth. It also says that God would not do anything about it. This is because according to the video, God wants His people(all human beings) to be free, and that true freedom is having the ability to choose to do evil things, and that diseases and accidents make you stronger and help you appreciate good, as you cannot appreciate good without bad. Now, this is not found anywhere in the Bible. i understand that people may argue that or use such in trying to explain things, but it is dishonesty to label and paint that as God's idea and word. God can bring out water from the rock, and joy or strength out of troubles and pains, but He didn't say that you cannot appreciate good without bad or that He is sending accidents so that humans will appreciate good and be stronger.

The video also mischievously assumes that God is the giver of evil, in the direct sense that God killed every dead person, and gave out every sickness and hardship on earth. It says God requires the death of all innocent children. It says God would not interfere in life's sufferings because of freewill i.e He wants the murderer to use his freewill. This is a very poor concept and subjective understanding of God You cannot force twisted opinions on a subject matter, and then call it freedom of people to think. Mischief and dishonesty is not freedom. Freedom is based and subsists on good behaviour of the person freed. If the police frees you, it is not freedom to go and steal, and commit murder or any lewdness. If you do not count the concept of freedom as true freedom, you can go cool off in prison. You cannot hate God and complain about not being allowed to live with Him all through eternity. Now, punishment for sin is not only for sins as actions committed but chiefly because we are sinners as persons. Man is created unlike other living things with 'eternality' by default. So you are either having eternal life or eternal death, which is an eternity in hell. So you're in hell for eternity because you exist for eternity. As your Maker, He has simply done what you would do with what you do not need or which is damaged, you dispose of it. When a food is spoilt or damaged, you throw it away. That is what God does to damaged sinful souls, He throws them away. take that for perspective. Like Seun changes the nairaland program and features after he has no use for it again, even though some of his members have use for it. Seun is the owner as it were, and has the final say as to how things are run.
Imagine some posts are not happy that another post was deleted by the moderator. That would probably border on ridiculous.

God sent a cool plan that anyone in any generation can apply, faith in Jesus. Very simple, very do-able. God sent His Word, the Bible which is man's manual for living, and those that have found it so have not regretted it. Also, miracles are not altering freewill. i don't even know how or why anyone would come to such a conclusion. Then you have Hitchens chattering about what he thinks happened, which his hearers found sort of amusing and funny. That's what the video is about basically.

Seun:



Ok, so: who created the devil?

God created lucifer and lucifer, with his actions, created the devil!

fhunn:
God created lucifer and lucifer, with his actions, created the devil!

Was lucifer also "GOOD" like man when he was created? If so, what made him turn into the evil bad devil that is blamed for all bad things?

Seun:

Was lucifer also "GOOD" like man when he was created? If so, what made him turn into the evil bad devil that is blamed for all bad things?

actually God is responsible ,because he said in a scriptural verse in isiah ,that he is the one who causes both good and bad,,satan is a puppet for Yahweh,,Yahweh is the creator ,and am happy he is my EL shaddai(GOD)

Seun:

Was lucifer also "GOOD" like man when he was created? If so, what made him turn into the evil bad devil that is blamed for all bad things?

God saw everything he made, indeed they were all Gud.including lucifer. but he craved power, he Was proud, he wanted to b like God.....Isaiah 14 vs 9-17.

Seun:

Was lucifer also "GOOD" like man when he was created? If so, what made him turn into the evil bad devil that is blamed for all bad things?

Yes everything God created was good including lucifer

What made him bad?
Eerrrm.........this is my opinion/perspective though

As at that time in heaven, God ruled(and is still ruling), and lucifer was the captain of the hosts and the only angel who could see God and also the only one through which God relays message to the others. Also, although in my own words, he was music in its entirety.

As a matter of assumption, let's say he was praised/adored/exalted by the other angels for his unique abilities and privileges. Now as a matter of fact, all glory/adoration is meant for God alone, don't ask me why, so when lucifer was being praised, he didn't 'redirect' it to God by praising/thanking God for the abilities/privileges granted to him by God. Therefore, stealing what was not his, what he was and is not 'compatible' with, he was created to serve, man!
Since he was not compatible with God's glory or let's just simply say God's glory was accumulating in him gradually but since his created/body specs didn't support God's glory, the glory was gradually changing him till it changed him to a being who actually spearheaded a coup against his Creator. That is to say glory is harmful to any being except God, regardless who the being is!

Se fini! * hope my french is correct sha *

Seun, in that OP, you quoted that "REAL love is unconditional.". i'm asking "Who said real love is unconditional? Can you give us an example of real love, so that we can test its unconditionality. Give us an example of what you love and let us see how unconditional it is."

Seun:

Revelations 4 talks about four "beasts full of eyes" in the presence of God. It says, "day and night, they never stop saying, Holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, who is, and is to come". It also talks about 24 elders who fall down before God's thrown and worship him constantly, laying their crowns before him and saying "you are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory honor and power, for you created all things and by your will they are created and have their being." This is pretty close to what the video humorously portrays.
Source: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%204&version=NIV

You're attempting to pick my words against reading the full context of what i'm saying. We might not understand each other much that way. i was referring to human beings in the NOW as not being created to be repeating some nice words about God night and day. No human being on earth lived that way, not even Jesus. i have also explained what the Bible means by praising or glorifying God. If you cut all that explanation out so that we can argue about some one bible verse, it doesn't help understanding or discussion. the video was passing off the idea that humans in the NOW are 'ridiculuosly' created to praise God by repeating some thank you phrases constantly. That is not correct. Even in the passages you have brought up, we have four living creatures(not humans) and 24 elders(humans). Of course, the 4 living creatures are more fervent in what they are doing than the 24 humans. But let's assume that they have the same frequency. So, logically and on assumed evidence, the God of heaven and earth has about 28 people constantly around Him telling Him what He wants to hear as it were. 28 out of billions of humans, not to mention His other creatures. Yet we have humans(atheists and otherwise) who have no qualms with rich men and rulers having long convoys and thousands of groups of yes men. Like the yes men who are currently begging the president to rule them. Some people have no problem with that but are even part of that, because of what they think they are getting or would get. In comparison to what men are doing, i think God has being fair then even if painted in that light. But honesty, diligence, dutifulness, righteousness, justice is praising God. To reduce praising God to some robotic mumbling and repetition, or to only singing is either ignorance or mischief.

Really? So when a lion, wolf or or other wild animal kills a baby, it's just doing what it's meant to do? When Ebola virus causes people to bleed to a horrible death, it's doing what it's meant to do?

i explained what i meant by adding that They are giving us the oxygen we need, the carbon, the energy, the calories etc.. We live in a fallen state where animals can hurt us. In the paradise God initially made this earth and which He still plans to make it, there will be no such things. Animals act on instinct, they don't have a moral code as it were. That is why human cruelty is compared to debasing oneself or being beastly. Wild animals are not carnivorous by choice but nature, they have no other way. That's the point i tried to explain in freewill.

You don't know anything about animals if you think they don't make decisions. My dog makes decisions all the time. For example, he makes decisions about whether to obey me or disobey me. Wild animals make decisions about whether to rest or to hunt, whether to fight or to have sex.

We can decide stuff as buying a phone, or browsing, or sleeping, or what to eat etc. Plants and animals hardly make such choice. A lion cannot decide to eat fried grass or learn how to squeal like a pig. Plants don't sleep when they like, they are programmed as it were. Cows don't learn how to swim, its in them. i made examples to show you how praising God is like, progressing from non living things like planets to plants and animals, to humans. Our levels of making decision and ability to make decisions is way different. Our brain, our framework, our intellect, our reasoning is way above that of the animals. That is where the freewill lies.

Ok, so: who created the devil?

God created the devil, but like someone already said, he wasn't created as the evil devil. He was an angel of God. i guess you may want to ask who created evil so i'll go a step ahead iguess. God created evil.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Evidently, God created light and darkness, peace and evil. Like He created plaintain and carbon monoxide. Whatever evil was created for, it wasn't for the angel of God or for man to use or abuse.

Samson Da Barbarian


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRh7W-Bsg5g

Seun:
MissTeaseMe, don't mind them. Pleased to meet you. Now let's get back to the topic.

this I know, one day everone will die, the atheist and those that have something to believe in will either regret their faith or lack of faith.

yinkuscious:
this I know, one day everone will die, the atheist and those that have something to believe in will either regret their faith or lack of faith.

How can a dead man regret?

davien:
How can a dead man regret?

a dead man can regret if he misses the road while alive, because only d flesh die, d spirit never die

yinkuscious:
a dead man can regret if he misses the road while alive, because only d flesh die, d spirit never die

what is a spirit? and how do you know it can't die?

davien:
what is a spirit? and how do you know it can't die?

john 3:6-8 says, that which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of spirit is spirit
Marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be born again
the wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is everyone that is born of spirit

yinkuscious:
john 3:6-8 says, that which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of spirit is spirit
Marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be born again
the wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is everyone that is born of spirit

So the bible is where you got the notion from...lol
Perhaps Spiderman too is real, since a book says so.

davien:
So the bible is where you got the notion from...lol
Perhaps Spiderman too is real, since a book says so.

that u can't get davien, d bible is not a mere book dat u can undastand with a common knowledge, it requires a divine understanding.

davien:
what is a spirit? and how do you know it can't die?

spirit is what powers ur consciousness. it defines from an animal.

Proffdada:

spirit is what powers ur consciousness. it defines from an animal.

If I was brain dead,would I still be conscious?
If no...how can you now say a "spirit" powers consciousness and not the brain?

davien:
If I was brain dead,would I still be conscious?
If no...how can you now say a "spirit" powers consciousness and not the brain?

cuz brain dead = no spirit

Proffdada:

cuz brain dead = no spirit

Are you implying that the brain is synonymous with what you call "spirit"?

davien:
Are you implying that the brain is synonymous with what you call "spirit"?

spirit powers consciousness, brain stores events and activities of consciousness, brain is subject of spirit

.....

Proffdada:
spirit powers consciousness, brain stores events and activities of consciousness, brain is subject of spirit

So if one is at brain death,he/she should still be conscious,no?
Reality goes against your premise....so a "spirit" is not tied to consciousness.... ..

Interesting