macof:

Oral history is meaningless. you fool in ur bid to make blacks look good and ridicule caucasians u jst embarrassed the entire sub-Saharan Africa that strives on orally told history to preserve our legacy and heritage

If oral history is meaningless then what evidence do u have that Africans weren't active slave traders? Ur own history?
Lol these racists have started again...thinking they making the black race better by bashing caucasians with lies..you no better than the white man you so accuse of treachery

As a Yoruba man, I can tell u the Ooni is descended from a slave woman owned by Oduduwa's household
even Odu Ifa speaks of this...there's ur authentic history there of a period when Caucasians only dreamt of West Africa

We had writing systems...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbIewxHQrk

What are we arguing about now? Slavery existed in africa according to two african sources.

GenBuhari:
Because your grandparents, their peers and your town's King couldn't write does not mean that there wasn't an elite group of Africans who could write and keep records

Any history written for Africa by non-Africans is not valid without concrete proof.

I would like to know more about this "elite" group of Africans. You err mearuring the "eliteness" or lack thereof with Writting/education which, a European standard. It is also a European ideal to write for evidence. Your mind is more Euro-oriented than most of us here.

Now the elitists, were they in every tribe(abt 2000) recording their history? Cities would have inventory record of tax, merchandise etc. I urge you to visit one unmodernized village. See how simple & free life was then.

Education(modern) is a tool of control of our economic syst. First it secured "white collar" jobs for feudal slavers, & opened for the masses, created endless supply of labour for their factories & govt. We're al bound today.

ROSSIKE:


Ever heard of the Timbuktu manuscripts? It comprises 700,000 manuscripts written by black Africans from as early as the 11th century. Other manuscripts exist on the continent. Kindly retract your ignorant comment.

And in what language is the Timbuktu manuscript written? Arabic- hence after being influenced by Arabs and probably forced to tale a false tale
So still this is no evidence by the Op's logic which you greatly support
Btw the Malian written records speak of slavery

Ur ignorance right back at u

thoth:


you know i can't really help if you don't understand that.

Bro you the one nt making urself clear. You neither here nor there
So I jst want to understand wat u driving at

igbo2011:


We had writing systems...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbIewxHQrk

Yh maybe all tribes in Africa had things written one way or the other but nt history.

I haven't come across any book on history of Africa with any African writting system
Wat I know of are calculations, basic instructions and ritual stuff
In Yoruba society All these cults have their markings which serve as coded writing system on wood, ivory and plain divination boards but nothing like a piece on history, all history is told orally

macof:



And in what language is the Timbuktu manuscript written? Arabic- hence after being influenced by Arabs and probably forced to tale a false tale
So still this is no evidence by the Op's logic which you greatly support
Btw the Malian written records speak of slavery

Ur ignorance right back at u

The same happened with Swahili. It was originaly written using Arabic alphabet.

maybe people mistake the northern africa( north of sahara) slavery with so called sub-sahara( this word should not be used again, instead we should use the phras south of sahara to describe us.

The whole of africa, the middle east and west asia was one continent before called Asia. in short the whole world was called Asia. it was in 1857 that the middle east was split from africa with the contruction of the suez canal, and the reason for that suez canal is to split the african blacks from the arab blacks. we look just the same. the light skin or caucasian arabs took those blacks there as slave and a few from somalia and sudan.

nobody here has agreed with me yet, that the black people were muslims before the arabs knew what is called a man.

GenBuhari:
Has Africa's own ancient historical manuscript confirmed that Arabs invaded Africa? Or was it because the white man said they had in their history books?

Does the Arab's own ancient historical documents confirm this?

We need to start getting into the mindset of questioning anything that has not been confirmed by our ancestors in their historical records.

The history that we have allowed others to write for us without any way of confirming its validity is one of shame and dishonour.
Shame and dishonour is hard to accept when it is true, but we should only accept it if it confirmed to be 100% true and you cannot do that without concrete evidence.

macof:



And in what language is the Timbuktu manuscript written? Arabic- hence after being influenced by Arabs and probably forced to tale a false tale
So still this is no evidence by the Op's logic which you greatly support
Btw the Malian written records speak of slavery

Ur ignorance right back at u

You think like a cow. So the fact that you are typing in English now means that whatever you are writing is influenced by the English people or by whites? Is Arabic itself not a derivation from ancient African hieroglyphs? Does the Meroitic script of Nubia not predate the Arabic script by nearly 3,000 years? When the mighty Sphinx at Giza was being built by black Africans 10,000 years ago using advanced mathematics, geometry, and hieroglyphs, did Arabs exist? Who really taught who? I mean, I really don't know where to start with you. You know nothing yet you keep coming here to proclaim black inferiority as if you were cursed or something. As for ''the Malian records speak of slavery'', that's another piece of gloriously inane dross. WHAT RECORDS ON EARTH do not ''speak of slavery'' from the bible and koran to the Sanskrit texts and the Egyptian Book of the Dead, plus a thousand other works? The word slave itself is derived from the European word slav. Slavery was the NORM across the entire globe for thousands of years up till just a couple of centuries ago, so why on earth would ''the Malian records'' not ''speak of slavery''? Really, you have issues.

Teach! brother teach!

ROSSIKE:


You think like a cow. So the fact that you are typing in English now means that whatever you are writing is influenced by the English people or by whites? Is Arabic itself not a derivation from ancient African hieroglyphs? Does the Meroitic script of Nubia not predate the Arabic script by nearly 3,000 years? When the mighty Sphinx at Giza was being built by black Africans 10,000 years ago using advanced mathematics, geometry, and hieroglyphs, did Arabs exist? Who really taught who? I mean, I really don't know where to start with you. You know nothing yet you keep coming here to proclaim black inferiority as if you were cursed or something. As for ''the Malian records speak of slavery'', that's another piece of gloriously inane dross. WHAT RECORDS ON EARTH do not ''speak of slavery'' from the bible and koran to the Sanskrit texts and the Egyptian Book of the Dead, plus a thousand other works? The word slave itself is derived from the European word slav. Slavery was the NORM across the entire globe for thousands of years up till just a couple of centuries ago, so why on earth would ''the Malian records'' not ''speak of slavery''? Really, you have issues.

[quote author=ROSSIKE post=27995279]
Is Arabic itself not a derivation from ancient African hieroglyphs? Does the Meroitic script of Nubia not predate the Arabic script by nearly 3,000 years? When the mighty Sphinx at Giza was being built by black Africans 10,000 years ago using advanced mathematics, geometry, and hieroglyphs, did Arabs exist? Who really taught who?
[quote],

True writting was done by the great African kingdoms. No one could touch them in those days. But their destruction and dispersal market the beginings of the great migrations of African peoples, and I believe the usury of her peoples. It would seem that as this period proceeded, they lost most of the skills and became mainly dependent on oral history. With the atlantic slavery, the children of the Babylonians that their fathers had fled found them, and started from where their fathers had left. Unfortunately, during that time of slavery, Africans did little or no writting.

The Sphinx is a Nilote, of South Sudan origin.

Thanks my friend for this.

Now instead of giving Africans any victories or credit in ancient history European historians would categorise them as you wrote: "Arab black" or "Tanned Arabs" always trying to dilute or discredit achievements of Africans in ancient history.

what are termed "white arabs" could have been the results of inter-breeding between whites from the region now known as southern Europe and Africans who had captured and ruled parts of southern Europe especially the region known today as Spain 700 years before European historians claim to have "discovered" Africa.

Africa may have have discovered Europe first.

gatiano:
maybe people mistake the northern africa( north of sahara) slavery with so called sub-sahara( this word should not be used again, instead we should use the phras south of sahara to describe us.

The whole of africa, the middle east and west asia was one continent before called Asia. in short the whole world was called Asia. it was in 1857 that the middle east was split from africa with the contruction of the suez canal, and the reason for that suez canal is to split the african blacks from the arab blacks. we look just the same. the light skin or caucasian arabs took those blacks there as slave and a few from somalia and sudan.

nobody here has agreed with me yet, that the black people were muslims before the arabs knew what is called a man.

muafrika are you deliberately ignoring my question about what country you are from?
Also here is an addtional question: Are you a black African?

macof would you mind answering the same questions please?

Which sources is that?

The question I posed was did slavery exist prior to the advent of Europeans in Africa?
Has the ancient historical documents of our ancestors confirm that they kept and traded slaves before the first Europeans claimed to have set foot in Africa?

If your source does not meet these criteria, then we can not rely on them.

PAPAAFRICA:
What are we arguing about now? Slavery existed in africa according to two african sources.

muafrika:
True writting was done by the great African kingdoms. No one could touch them in those days. But their destruction and dispersal market the beginings of the great migrations of African peoples, and I believe the usury of her peoples. It would seem that as this period proceeded, they lost most of the skills and became mainly dependent on oral history. With the atlantic slavery, the children of the Babylonians that their fathers had fled found them, and started from where their fathers had left. Unfortunately, during that time of slavery, Africans did little or no writting.

The Sphinx is a Nilote, of South Sudan origin.

You're absolutely correct. The main reason for the loss of writing by the forest peoples was the general flux and upheaval that characterized the period between the fall of Nile Valley civilization and the Arab invasions of circa 600 AD. Numerous African peoples were forced to flee/migrate, settle and re-settle, and within a few years, would be forced again to flee, resettle elsewhere etc. So writing, and the building of massive physical structures became an unnecessary luxury in the absence of social stability. Why build sturdy buildings when you could be forced to flee the next day, from slavers, or in search of water, or arable soil? The oral histories of the forest peoples are replete with tales of migration from locale to locale. In such situations record keeping came to be done using symbolism such as court art and artefacts legible to the senior elite of traditional societies, like in Benin where records were kept in mysterious inscriptions and patterns on murals, art works and royal plaques. So Africans had to be creative in line with the times. The Malians and others in the savanna were even forced to hide their millions of manuscripts underground to keep them from foreign Arab invaders hellbent on destroying all legacy of African knowledge and civilization.. only recently daring to bring them out to an incredulous world.

And yet the writings of Africa never mentioned them enslaving themselves.

I am not even sure of any evidence of Arabs ever invading Africa. Has any ancient African documents ever confirmed this?

ROSSIKE:


You're absolutely correct. The main reason for the loss of writing by the forest peoples was the general flux and upheaval that characterized the period between the fall of Nile Valley civilization and the Arab invasions of circa 600 AD. Numerous African peoples were forced to flee/migrate, settle and re-settle, and within a few years, would be forced again to flee, resettle elsewhere etc. So writing, and the building of massive physical structures became an unnecessary luxury in the absence of social stability. Why build sturdy buildings when you could be forced to flee the next day, from slavers, or in search of water, or arable soil? The oral histories of the forest peoples are replete with tales of migration from locale to locale. In such situations record keeping came to be done using symbolism such as court art and artefacts legible to the senior elite of traditional societies, like in Benin where records were kept in mysterious inscriptions and patterns on murals, art works and royal plaques. So Africans had to be creative in line with the times. The Malians and others in the savanna were even forced to hide their millions of manuscripts underground to keep them from foreign Arab invaders hellbent on destroying all legacy of African knowledge and civilization.. only recently daring to bring them out to an incredulous world.

@Rossike, why are you calling us "forest people?"

And you Genbuhari are you black

Yes Iam black.
have I given you any reason to think otherwise?

HumbledbYGrace:
@Rossike, why are you calling us "forest people?"

And you Genbuhari are you black

GenBuhari:
Yes Iam black.
have I given you any reason to think otherwise?

Black African?

No. Blue African

All true Africans are black

HumbledbYGrace:
Black African?

GenBuhari:
No. Blue African

All true Africans are black

that's not true

Why do you ask me if I am black African? do you have a point you wish to make?

Well perhaps that is because Africans have not define their own continent by themselves.

But looking forward into the future we need to start striving for a world with out borders where anybody can freely live whereever they wish in the world with out Visa controls or restrictions

HumbledbYGrace:
that's not true

https://www.nairaland.com/1995552/mr-nairaland-december-2014-edition/11#28004493 pals please, i dont mean to derail the thread but i beg thee to visit that link, read the instructions and vote me. Its a plea, wont take 3 minutes of ya time.Am in group 5, number 11. Thanksssdd

GenBuhari:


But looking forward into the future we need to start striving for a world with out borders where anybody can freely live whereever they wish in the world with out Visa controls or restrictions

I don't see ^^^^that happening

HumbledbYGrace:
I don't see ^^^^that happening

humbledbygrace,re u still busy

GenBuhari:
muafrika are you deliberately ignoring my question about what country you are from?
Also here is an addtional question: Are you a black African?

macof would you mind answering the same questions please?

Of course proudly African, I just do not think that we need to measure our selves with European standards of success. Success should not be measured by usury of the weak in society but rather by the ability of the weakest to feel as humane as anybody. I detest the dehumanization of our society's institutions, economic, political, social, that we celebrate the tallest sky scrapers in the city and ignore the homeless sleeping in its shadows because because they were displaced to make room for the sky scraper. I curse this usury of our day.

Its why I am not jumping to associate my noble predecessors with such disregard for humanity. They did not lust for more than they needed, and certainly not for the portion of the weaker in society.

GenBuhari:
Why do you ask me if I am black African? do you have a point you wish to make?

Well perhaps that is because Africans have not define their own continent by themselves.

But looking forward into the future we need to start striving for a world with out borders where anybody can freely live whereever they wish in the world with out Visa controls or restrictions

That world did exist, until some people imposed their "civilization" on us.

GenBuhari:
Yes Iam black.
have I given you any reason to think otherwise?

Just your disregard for oral history. Your ancestors are turning in their graves.

ROSSIKE:


You think like a cow. So the fact that you are typing in English now means that whatever you are writing is influenced by the English people or by whites? Is Arabic itself not a derivation from ancient African hieroglyphs? Does the Meroitic script of Nubia not predate the Arabic script by nearly 3,000 years? When the mighty Sphinx at Giza was being built by black Africans 10,000 years ago using advanced mathematics, geometry, and hieroglyphs, did Arabs exist? Who really taught who? I mean, I really don't know where to start with you. You know nothing yet you keep coming here to proclaim black inferiority as if you were cursed or something. As for ''the Malian records speak of slavery'', that's another piece of gloriously inane dross. WHAT RECORDS ON EARTH do not ''speak of slavery'' from the bible and koran to the Sanskrit texts and the Egyptian Book of the Dead, plus a thousand other works? The word slave itself is derived from the European word slav. Slavery was the NORM across the entire globe for thousands of years up till just a couple of centuries ago, so why on earth would ''the Malian records'' not ''speak of slavery''? Really, you have issues.

It's ur father that is a cow olosi. You never stick to one argument do u? Always running around as it suits u
You as an active supporter of the OP, you asked for evidence of slavery in Africa without any white influence, I replied Africa has no written records of history before the caucasians came...you then talk of Timbuktu scripts which shows how dumb and stuupid you are for supporting the OP in the first place
1. Timbuktu manuscripts are Arabic-. the OP, which u support, has already stated to do away with historical records involving white man's influence. Any thing written in non-African language is made up and not authentic evidence according to the OP's logic
2. The same Timbuktu library has scripts speaking of slavery in Africa by Africans

So why support the OP on his claim that slaves weren't sold but caucasians forcefully took Africans into slavery? That is wat I want to know
Here's ur previous post

The op actually raised a very good point, by
highlighting the rarely acknowledged fact that
the story we get about slavery is actually the
white man's account. I'm not aware of any
African derived historical accounts - written
or oral - which state categorically that
Africans sold slaves to the whites. It is books
written by foreigners that make this claim.
How do we know they're telling the truth? Do
we actually trust them to tell the truth, and if
so, why?
Why would a ship armed with cannon and
mortar stop at a coastal village and look to
buy anything when they could simply order
the local king or chiefs to supply a given
number of young adults or face instant
annihilation?

macof:


Yh maybe all tribes in Africa had things written one way or the other but nt history.

I haven't come across any book on history of Africa with any African writting system
Wat I know of are calculations, basic instructions and ritual stuff
In Yoruba society All these cults have their markings which serve as coded writing system on wood, ivory and plain divination boards but nothing like a piece on history, all history is told orally

https://www.nairaland.com/973985/nsibiri-pre-colonial-writing-south-eastern

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge'ez_script

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroitic_alphabet

Check out those writing systems.

Also learn about Timbukwu with alot of writing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Heh_91lhenA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTLcQsobtG0

Its really a difficult endeavour to teach people who have low self esteem because of the nature of the cultural setting they found themselves in..

Here's why "some" black africans worship europeans

They ( europeans ) killed their fathers ... leaving them fatherless

They raped their mothers and fathered their children

When the children grew up the only father they knew was the "benevolent" one that destroyed their family and culture they never knew. Replacing their culture with that of the rapist.

So how can the offspring not reject their true history. Because the rapist told them that they (offspring) do no not have history. ( They never questioned how can a living being not have history)

It takes time and patient to deconstruct the minds of these offsprings and get them back to their true history with the attendant self worth.

macof:


It's ur father that is a cow olosi. You never stick to one argument do u? Always running around as it suits u
You as an active supporter of the OP, you asked for evidence of slavery in Africa without any white influence, I replied Africa has no written records of history before the caucasians came...you then talk of Timbuktu scripts which shows how dumb and stuupid you are for supporting the OP in the first place
1. Timbuktu manuscripts are Arabic-. the OP, which u support, has already stated to do away with historical records involving white man's influence. Any thing written in non-African language is made up and not authentic evidence according to the OP's logic
2. The same Timbuktu library has scripts speaking of slavery in Africa by Africans

So why support the OP on his claim that slaves weren't sold but caucasians forcefully took Africans into slavery? That is wat I want to know
Here's ur previous post

I'll just put this incomprehensible gibberish down to your low IQ. I'm happy to discuss the topic with individuals whose brains developed past age 6.