Image123:




You are putting words in my mouth as it were. i did not say they were at liberty to disagree. The point i make is that their disagreement foesn't mean they are not part of the body or church. just like family members may have disagreements and different likes and understandings. It is the will of God that there be no schisms or disunity but that is not happening yet as it were.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
This passage talks about God giving the church gifts for perfection till/UNTIL we ALL come in the unity of faith and of knowledge. We do not all have unity of faith and knowledge. Some are weaker in faith than others, some do not have the same knowledge or understanding. Paul for instance had some knowledge and understanding that some other believers did not have. And he had his disagreements, like for instance with his friend Barnabas on ministry decisions.
The Bible refers to some teachings as milk and some as meat, hence showing that all teachings are not on the same level. Even in the law, Jesus was asked which is the greatest. He didn't say they were all equal teachings. there are weightier matters than the others. Anyone who does not think Jesus is Lord is not a member of the church.

Image123:

Hopefully you got the point, Jesus Himself was asked some seemingly 'yes or no' questions, He wasn't gullible to tempters. Not every yes or no question would get a yes or no answer.

italo:
Forget about this. Any hypocrite can use to to hide from the truth.

Image123:

Just so we are clear on this, i do not need to answer your questions. i have no such obligation or requirement. i'm not here to beg you or argue with you. How many contradictory positions can one get in whether Jesus Christ resurrected or not? Can we have millions of churches havng millions of teachings on whether Jesus resurrected or not? If you refuse to get that plain point, that is your business not mine.

Image123:
And who ratifies the catechism or canon law? Is the Roman Catholic church not currently confused and contradictory on whether gays should be priests or not, and on even evolution? Are those not contradictory doctrines/teachings? So, you are at liberty to hold personal opinions but other denominations are not at liberty to hold theirs? Theirs is millions of contradictory doctrine while yours is personal opinions liberty. Who is fooling who?

Image123:
The Bible. The matters of redemption and eternal life are weighty and salient.

Image123:
Yes, like some sect of the catholic are likely false.

Image123:


Different understanding is not opposition to church doctrine. There were brethren in the early church who had differing views on circumcision in Acts 15. They were brethren and so rightly referred to. But thankfully, the church came together to consider the matter, and God's gifts of apostles, teachers etc were able to come to an agreed teaching on the matter. That letter was sent to other BRETHREN who probably had different views on the subject. They were not false or another church. What they lacked was same understanding, knowledge and revelation.

italo:


After the Church made a definitive teaching on the issue, was opposition to the teaching tolerated...like you do in the guise of "different opinions?"

italo:
The hundreds of thousands of Protestant communities and the millions of "non-denominational Christians" in the world have different contradictory doctrines. Yes or no?

Here is the Catholic teaching concerning homosexuals and ordination:

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question [9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called "gay culture" [10].

[9] Cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church (editio typica, 1997), n. 2358; cf. also CIC, can. 208 and CCEO, can. 11.

[10] Cf. Congregation for Catholic Education, A memorandum to Bishops seeking advice in matters concerning homosexuality and candidates for admission to Seminary (9 July 1985); Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Letter (16 May 2002): Notitiae 38 (2002), 586.

On evolution, the Church teaches that, if evolution is true, it was/is ordered by God.

There is no confusion on Catholic doctrine. It is well documented. Sorry to disappoint you. You seem desperate to justify the contradictions and confusion in protestantism's doctrines by manufacturing contradictions for the Catholic Church.

Yes, I can hold personal opinions where the Catholic Church does not have a definitive teaching. That is allowed in Catholic teaching. But I cannot teach something contrary to what the Catholic Church has taught definitively. That would mean opposing the Holy Spirit who teaches through the Church.

In protestantism, you say that Christ Embassy is "church," yet it teaches that masturbation is not a sin and many protestants (so called members of the Church) teach the opposite.

And many more examples. By what spirit is the Church teaching opposite doctrines? Holy or evil?
But all of Christian doctrine is about redemption and eternal life.
Why then do you say some issues are salient, and must not be disagreed on...while others are non salient and opposing them does not make one step outside the Church?

You cant show where the Bible makes such distinction. You are trying to impose your personal tradition as truth. No?

You mean God's visible Church can be false? Meaning God's Church can be run by the devil?

Are you thinking of what you're saying?

If the visible church can be false then how can we identify the true Church...since we all learnt what "Church" is from a visible entity...which could be false.

Image123:


What was the definitive teaching? As far as i remember, Paul later asked for Timothy to be circumcised. He also wrote that circumcision/uncircumcision was not an issue.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Image123:

The catholics are disagreed among themselves on various issues like gay priests, abortion and evolution. Your point is mute.

Image123:
So you guys have being on this issue since 1985 and 2002. Yet there are still arguments and contradictory views by priests and popes on being gay. Again, your point is mute. What you are attacking outside is also attacking you inside. The Catholic church is not in uniformity.

Image123:
Very convenient if. Why the IF if there are no contradictory views. The informed know that some catholics believe there was no evolution, while some believe there was.

Image123:
Why can you hold personal opinions and not have denominations hold personal opinions? Do you think that those denominations think they are teaching contrary to what the Bible teaches?

Image123:
And who says the Roman Catholic is church if Christ Embassy is not church? Who determines these things?

Image123:
Do you think women should cover their hair when praying? How is it about redemption? How is it about eternal life?

Image123:
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Image123:
Ever heard of false prophets, false teachers, false apostles and false brethren? Where do you find them, in the mosque?

You would consider anyone who disagrees with you on any of those points above, not a member of the Church. Yes or no?

You're saying only disagreement with Image123's understanding of the "salient issues" disqualifies one from being part of The Church.

Because you still cant show where the Bible says what issues are "salient" and can keep you out ofthe Church and which issues cannot keep you out. Even the example you gave of Jesus rubbishes your position. Jesus says love of God and neighbour are the greatest commandments, yet you omitted these in your list of salient issues. Paul and Barnabas had no disagreement a doctrinal issue.

You are saying The Church can teach falsehood on non-salient issues? Yes or no.

OLAADEGBU:
Question: "What is the church?"

Answer: Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return. The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:

1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence. The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches. A Baptist church, Lutheran church, Catholic church, etc., is not the church, as in the universal church—but rather is a local church, a local body of believers. The universal church is comprised of those who belong to Christ and who have trusted Him for salvation. These members of the universal church should seek fellowship and edification in a local church.

In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Local churches are gatherings of members of the universal church. The local church is where the members of the universal church can fully apply the “body” principles of 1 Corinthians chapter 12: encouraging, teaching, and building one another up in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html#ixzz3IHtFN8zm

OLAADEGBU:
What is the church?
by Matt Slick

The Christian church can be seen in two ways: the visible and the invisible. The visible church is comprised of all who claim the name of Christian and who gather together for worship and participation of the sacraments: the Lord's Supper and Baptism. The members of the visible church claim the name of Christian (excluding the cults like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.). The visible church contains both believers and non-believers; that is, there are people in the visible church who are not really saved.

The members of the invisible Church are the actual body of believers. They are the ones who are truly regenerate and have trusted, by faith, in the true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The true Christian is indwelt by the Lord Jesus (John 14:23) through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Christian church is figuratively said to be the body of Christ.

Rom. 12:5, "So we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another."
Eph. 4:12, "For the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ."

The word "church" comes from the Greek "ekklesia" which means "gathering" or "assembly." Therefore, the church is the gathering of the believers who come together to participate in fellowship with one another as they worship God and hear from His Word, the Bible. The church as a whole has been equipped with people possessing different spiritual gifts (Rom. 12:5-8.) The purpose of the gifts is "for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ." (Eph. 4:12-13).

The Christian church was founded by Jesus, and He is its Head and Saviour (Col. 1:18; Eph. 5:23). Being in the church, the Christian is subject to the Lordship of Jesus (Eph. 5:24) through the administration of the Word of God.

The Bible does not provide a detailed method of Church government. But, it does state that there are to be elders who govern in the church. These elders are appointed by the laying on of hands (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6). They are to be able to teach sound doctrine and refute error (Titus 1:9; 1 Tim. 3:2).

The purpose of the church is to both glorify God and to inform the world about the work of Christ as Redeemer.

http://carm.org/church

JMAN05:


Please can you prove the bold face ^^?

Hiswordxray:
You two still sees things carnally, you are not seeing things through God's eyes.
The church in Corinth was filled with gossiping, strife, incest, conflict, disagreement, adultery, gluten, jealousy, disorder etc. But look at what Paul said "some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of God." (1Cor 6:11).

Paul called this sinful people holy, that is outrageous. But that is not all, in the verses before verse 11 Paul listed all kind of sinful people like adulterers etc. OK tell me who is an adulterer, of cause someone who commit adultery and the church in Corinth commit adultery (if you don't believe me read the rest of that same chapter 6) but yet Paul went on to say they were once like that.
A right minded person will say this people are terrible sinners and Paul is a fool who doesn't know what he is saying. How can Paul see sinners and called them holy people? The answer is that Paul saw them through God's eyes.

"Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes." (Eph 1:4).
In God's eyes they are holy, blameless, faultless and perfect. And the is how Paul saw them because God is true and he never lies.

Therefore the Church is holy, God created the Church without sin and sin has never existed in the Church. There is nothing false or evil in the Church for she is pure. The Church has no doctrine because she is a body that simply expresses the life of Christ. A body does not need doctrine to function.

I know these statement seems confusing and you may not understand it but God is true and it is wise to trust the judgment of God.
If you could see the Church through God's eyes you will see are true beauty,glory and victory.

So stop this argument it only shows how carnal you two are. But instead grow up, behave the children of God because that is who you are. I have never heard God arguing with somebody before but instead he only speaks when necessary. Behave like your father and stop acting like dead carnal people.

italo:


Acts 15:7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. 8 And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; 9 and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. 10 Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? 11 On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

12 The whole assembly kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul as they told of all the signs and wonders that God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “My brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first looked favorably on the Gentiles, to take from among them a people for his name. 15 This agrees with the words of the prophets, as it is written,

16 ‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen;
from its ruins I will rebuild it,
and I will set it up,
17 so that all other peoples may seek the Lord—
even all the Gentiles over whom my name has been called.
Thus says the Lord, who has been making these things 18 known from long ago.’
19 Therefore I have reached the decision that we should not trouble those Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but we should write to them to abstain only from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from whatever has been strangled and from blood. 21 For in every city, for generations past, Moses has had those who proclaim him, for he has been read aloud every sabbath in the synagogues.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and the elders, with the consent of the whole church, decided to choose men from among their members and to send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leaders among the brothers, 23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the believers of Gentile origin in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that certain persons who have gone out from us, though with no instructions from us, have said things to disturb you and have unsettled your minds, 25 we have decided unanimously to choose representatives and send them to you, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Was any opposition to this Church teaching tolerated?

italo:

Why are you avoiding my question?

The hundreds of thousands of Protestant communities and the millions of "non-denominational Christians" in the world have different contradictory doctrines. Yes or no?

Then show me a Catholic doctrine that is contradictory to the one I stated

I never said there are no contradictory views among Catholics. Infact I said the Church permits us to hold personal opinions on issues not definitively taught by the Church. The issue I raised, and which PastorAIO tried to set you straight on, is CHURCH DOCTRINE, not personal views or opinions. You are just deliberately dishonestly trying to blur the line between the two...and flip-flopping.
I have shown you how you Protestants hold contradictory Church doctrines.

You cannot show me two contradictory Catholic doctrines. Because you can't find any.

Everyone, even Atheists and Satanists can hold any opinions they like.

But God's Church cannot teach contradictory doctrines.

E.g If Martin Luther claimed to teach by the Holy Spirit that Mary was a perpetual virgin and majority of protestant communities claim to teach by the Holy Spirit that Mary was not, they cannot both be correct. Somebody is lying against the Spirit.

Catholic teaching is one...all over the world.

I have not said Christ Embassy is not Church yet. I only asked you by what Spirit the "Church" teaches contradictions. Holy or Evil?

It is about prayer...and prayer cannot be divorced from eternal life.

Yes. Not all THINGS are expedient. But it doesn't say "not all (Christian doctrines) are expedient. In fact, Paul elsewhere commanded the Philippians (Phil 4:9) to do all they had seen and heard him do and teach. He didn't distinguish between salient and non-salient. You cant find a backing for this your heresy that the Church guided by the Holy Spirit can teach lies when the issue is non salient.

You can find them anywhere. Even if you find them in the Church, it wouldn't mean their false teaching is Church teaching.

If my Parish Priest teaches that Jesus is not God and insists on it, that would make him, not the Catholic Church false.

If the visible church can be false then how can we identify the true Church...since we all learnt what "Church" is from a visible entity...which could be false.

italo:



Pls can you answer the above? This is the third time I'm asking and you keep pretending you didnt see.

It will help me show how your doctrine is false.

Thanks.

You would consider anyone who disagrees with you on any of those points above, not a member of the Church. Yes or no?

You're saying only disagreement with Image123's understanding of the "salient issues" disqualifies one from being part of The Church.

Because you still cant show where the Bible says what issues are "salient" and can keep you out ofthe Church and which issues cannot keep you out. Even the example you gave of Jesus rubbishes your position. Jesus says love of God and neighbour are the greatest commandments, yet you omitted these in your list of salient issues. Paul and Barnabas had no disagreement a doctrinal issue.

You are saying The Church can teach falsehood on non-salient issues? Yes or no.

OLAADEGBU:


The onus is on you to prove the article wrong or are you claiming that the JW is a local church?.

Image123:


Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Was Timothy told no further burden than the essentials?

Image123:

i'm not avoiding your question, i have answered it already. i have only tried and laboured to show you the big beam in your eye. The Catholics have different doctrines and teachings which you call opinions and which you claim that you are permitted to hold. Why are you permitted to hold differing opinions in your one denomination, but have a problem with other denominations having differing opinions/doctrines?

Image123:
i just did. The teaching on gay marriage. Different catholics hold different views on it and hence would teach differently on it.

Image123:
You call yours views and opinions, but other denominations own are doctrines. Its all the same. Your doctrine is basically your teaching, your view on a subject. i prefer to dwell on the unity, while you choose to enlarge the separation. i'm not interested in tearing down the Catholic church or pointing out your doctrines. However, even a casual search would show differing doctrines and views. Watch this video for instance, it's short about 5mins. It shows contradictory and contradicting popes. Your popes, from the same denomination, hving differing doctrines. Yet, you are all over because different denomination A has different opinion/doctrine from denomination

Image123:
Why not? The church is made up of BRETHREN. Brethren can hold different understanding, likes and dislikes. It doesn't make them not of the same blood. i may never in my life marry the kind of wife my brother married or do the kind of career or treat my money the way he treats his etc. He is still my brother. God is not asking for uniformity on paper but for unity.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Eph 4:13 This will continue until we are united by our faith and by our understanding of the Son of God. Then we will be mature, just as Christ is, and we will be completely like him.

There is not yet unity of the faith, understanding, or knowledge. We do not all know the same thing or have equal revelation. If you cannot understand this simple and straight fact, i might need to pray for you, and perhaps wash you at the river or something.

Image123:

On paper. What is your relationship with the virgin Mary. Do you worship Virgin Mary?

Image123:
Not everything is done by Spirit, else there would be no point exhorting people to Walk in the Spirit or not be carnal.

Image123:
So, should women cover their heads then? If they don't, are they endangering their eternal life status?

I dont know. I dont think they endanger it directly. But since it is mentioned in the Bible that they should, there might be some graces or advantages it offers in their walk with God. This can indirectly affect their salvation journey.
[quote author=Image123 post=28349719]Phi 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
The Philippians would have to grow to that stage. In that period of growth, there will still be a gap or difference.

Image123:
It is not your duty to go about identifying the true church. Do the best you can with the help of God's Spirit. You may never find the true church(if what you seem to refer to is denomination).

OLAADEGBU:


The onus is on you to prove the article wrong or are you claiming that the JW is a local church?.

Image123:


you are calling my views on this thread doctrine, but when i call the catholic views out, you will say they are opinions and catholics can have personal opinion. you are one funny little Roman Catholic.

Image123:
No, why should i? It's not my duty to be considering who is a member and who is not a member.

Image123:

Again NO, i have never said that.

Good to see you remove the erroneous, exaggerated 'millions'. The visible church, which i guess to be every church building or denomination, is not necessarily the true church. For instance, the Roman Catholic church is currently confused and contradictory on whether gays should be priests or not, and on even evolution. Do you think this makes the Catholic church a false church?
i cannot see the invisible church, but like i explained to AIO, members of the body of Christ might be different in outlook and function, and may even share differing perspectives and understandings in some teachings. But when it comes to the weighty, major, salient issues, there is no contradiction. Jesus is Lord.

Image123:
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Image123:
No, i am saying two people might have differing understanding of the same issue. Do you have the same understanding that Ronaldo has about soccer? Is your position falsehood or his? Do you have the same opinion with Obama on health policies? Whose is the falsehood?

italo:


You keep dodging my questions only because you are afraid of truth.

Was any opposition to the Church teaching in Acts 15 tolerated?

italo:

Still dodging my question because you fear truth.

The hundreds of thousands of Protestant communities and the millions of "non-denominational Christians" in the world have different contradictory doctrines. Yes or no?

We are discussing Church doctrine. The Catholic Church doesn't recognize individual teachings as part of its doctrine. So you are in no position to force individual teachings into Catholic doctrine because you are desperate to equate it to the quagmire you have in your protestant communities.

Catholic doctrine is determined by the Catholic Church, not you. You attempt to put what you like into Catholic doctrine only demonstrates your dishonesty.

You still cant show me two Catholic doctrines that are contradictory.

1. My views or teachings (if they are different from that of the Catholic Church) are only my teachings, not Catholic doctrine. Stop the dishonest attempt to equate them.

2. The teachings of each Protestant "church" can be termed "church" doctrines. Here are just a few of the multitude of examples known all over the world: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_Confession

http://www.deeperlife.ca/bibledoctrines/

http://www.methodist.org.uk/who-we-are/doctrine-of-the-methodist-church

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_doctrine

Also, there are many protestants so called christians who believe that anyone can interpret the Bible and come up with their own teachings, those who say they are their own Church, they also call themselves "nondenominational"...and there are millions of them. Whatever they teach can be called Church doctrine because "they are their own church." That is obvious.

I dont know why you insist on lying/playing dumb just because you fear the truth.

3. Your video is full of lies, half truths, misconceptions and deliberate manipulation. Can I take the contents as your views or do I assume you just latched unto anything you thought disproved the Church without doing an honest investigation yourself?

You are saying the Church of God can teach error...falsehood. You're saying the New Testament, the written teachings of the Church leaders could be erroneous.

You're just totally confused.On paper and in Spirit, Catholic teaching is one.

In a sense, I worship her a little like you worship your mother...but I dont worship her as God.

So your "church" teachings are not of the Spirit...thats why there are contradictions.

Doesn't mean the Church was at anytime teaching the Philippians error on any issue (salient or non salient)

Speak for yourself.

As for me, I have found it. It is not a denomination. It is the Catholic Church...which gave you the Bible and told you about Jesus Christ.

If it is false, then the Jesus story could well be false. But they are both true.

italo:


But that's the meaning of what you said in the quote below. Members of the church cannot contradict one another on the salient issues. So if anyone contradicts you on a salient issue, either you or him or both of you are not members of the Church.

Why are you denying your own position now?



Stop twisting the words of St. Paul to fit your heresies. Nowhere did he say some Church doctrines are salient while others arent.

And nowhere does the Bible give a list of salient and non salient doctrines.


If church A teaches that abortion always sinful and church b teaches that abortion (in the way church A defines it) is not always sinful...

Those are contradictory doctrines.

At least one of them is a false doctrine...from the evil one.

These two doctrines are found in your protestant "churches."

Image123:

Was there any opposition recorded?

Image123:

Why are you permitted to hold differing opinions in your one denomination, but have a problem with other denominations having differing opinions/doctrines? Dodge not.


Teaching is doctrine. Other denominations hold differing views on gay marriage as well, and abortion, and cigarettes, and alcohol, and wearing of necklaces etc. These are the things that make up your so called million contradictions. So, do well to apply them to your denomination as well instead of separating them as opinion or teaching when it affects you. Your church's doctrine on gay marriage is inconsistent. FACT. What is the Roman Catholic position on gay marriage? Does it not differ from person to person, and priest to priest, and pope to pope? Show me two Mountain of Fire doctrines that are contradictory, that is one denomination. i have shown you the Roman Catholic denomination's.


Oh spare me this madness. If you were a priest or Bishop or a teacher in any capacity in the Catholic church, would you not give out your views?


My point exactly, teaching is doctrine. But in the Roman catholic church, you are insisting that they are opinions and everyone can have them. Methodist is one denomination, Roman catholic is one denomination, Anglican is another, so also deeper Life.


Are you soliloquizing here or what? Whatever you teach in the Catholic church can be called Church doctrine, it is not personal view. What you teach on gay marriage, holy Mary, evolution, priest marriage, is all DOCTRINE. That is obvious i suppose.


Let us call it THE video. It's not mine or yours, its just there on the internet and anyone can verify its content. The video truly shows contradictory and contradicting popes. Your popes, from the same denomination, having differing doctrines. It is not FULL of lies. Please point out the lies, talk is cheap.If you call it HALF truth, then it cannot be FULL of lies BTW. Tell us the half that is truth and the half that is lies. Its just about 5mins, the video. Quickly from the video for my dear fellows without MB.
FACT 1. Pope Honorious was condemned as an heretic at the Sixth General Council. Obviously, he must have had some differing views/doctrines in the same Catholic denomination.
FACT 2.Pope Eugenius IV condemned Joan of Arc, while another Pope Benedict XV canonized the same Joan of Arc as a saint. Is this contradictory?
FACT 3. Pope Paul V and another Pope condemned and KILLED Galileo because of his knowledge and teaching about planets and the shape of the earth etc. i'm sure you and your present Pope now agree with Galileo.
FACT 4. Pope Innocent III or IV forbad Bible reading in common languages. i want to believe it is not still so today.
Another infallible Pope sanctioned the Inquisition. pope Leo XII condemned and battled with Bible societies and translations. Pope Gregory XII pope Benedict XIII and pope John XXIII were all claiming to be the pope at the same time in 1415. These are historical facts.You should not open mouth when people are talking about contradictions. Your one denomination is full of them. It is not my desire or plan to talk down anybody or church, but if you are insisting and making false claims, i might have to show or remind about one or two things. The church is not any particular denomination or building but the Body of Christ. It is comprising of those that are saved and washed in the blood of the Lamb, having faith in the Lord Jesus. It is not about doctrine, as important and good as they may be.


i'm being factual, not confused. Peter was an integral part of the church, yet he made mistakes. Same too with James and john and any other believer there is. We are all pressing TOWARDS perfection as it were. So, there might be room for varied understanding in some matters.


i do not worship my mother, neither do i pray to her or through her. i do not kneel in front of her picture either or any other such things that you do to the virgin Mary.


Peter was one moment declaring Jesus as messiah, and in the next moment being used by the devil. Is Peter a part of the church?


Duhh, that is the very basis of most of the epistles and New testament books. Churches were not living right or teaching right, and they were corrected by the epistles. Some churches have Jezebels teaching them.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.



oh, i supposed this was what these was all about but you just confirmed it. my Roman Catholic denomination is better than all other denominations. Suit yourself, make sure you see me in heaven though.