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If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? - Religion - Nairaland

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If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 7:15pm On Nov 06, 2014
1. Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make
peace and create evil, I the Lord do all these things."

2. Isaiah 54:16 "I have created the waster to destroy."

3. Prov 16:4 "The Lord has made all things for himself, yes even
the wicked for the day of evil."

4. Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High
proceeds both evil and good."

5. Amos 3:6 "Shall there be evil in
a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"

5 Likes 2 Shares

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by MizMyColi(f): 7:50pm On Nov 06, 2014

LoL Xcapizt
cheesy
Check this out.
From a christian I deeply respect #RichardMurray.

When Isaiah is speaking here, he is translating the
divine impulses of inspiration from the Lord the best
he can. But remember, he had an undifferentiated
view of God, a fundamental blind-spot which affected
and limited everything he received from the Lord. He
wrongly believed, as did all Old Testament saints,
that Satan was the left hand of God, an obedient
extension of Yahweh's wrathful will.

This is why John 1:18 says no Old Testament saint
had truly beheld God at any time. Jesus came to
DIFFERENTIATE and DIVORCE our understanding
of God AND Satan, to completely separate and forever sever their natures, wills and purposes. As for Isaiah, he certainly knew God created light and was full of goodness, BUT he did not know that Satan was a cosmic rebel totally operating without Divine
permission or sanction.

Isaiah in this verse was misattributing, or perhaps
better described, "improperly blending" his images of
God and Satan into one bi-polar UNDIFFERENTIATED image. Jesus couldn't be clearer that Satan was a liar, murderer, and rebel being, and that he did not operate at the command of the Heavenly Father.

Sometimes, OT authors were improperly attributing Satan's works and words to Yahweh. Other times OT saints were rightly attributing Yahweh's mighty deliverances to Yahweh alone. But, still other times, such as in this Isaiah passage, the OT saint is hearing God and Satan TOGETHER at the same time. Much like a radio dial receiving two different remote station signals at the same time, what comes out is a mish-mash of conflicting notions and ideas.

Similarly, what comes out in this Isaiah verse is a
confusing and contradictory statement in need of New Testament re-translation.

4 Likes 3 Shares

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by SeverusSnape(m): 8:14pm On Nov 06, 2014
The Bible is full of contradictions. I've always had questions that haven't been answered even by clergy men, the answers they offer me are not satisfactory. There are times when i bring up some topics and my friends will look at me as a heretic. I need answers too... I'm becoming an agnostic. **Xcapist and mymizcoli, are you guys dating?**

4 Likes

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by johnydon22(m): 8:15pm On Nov 06, 2014
excuss i thought the holy spirit influenced the bible both old and new testament...i wonder how the holy spirit made the OT writters to write something and at the same time make the new testament writters to write something totally different . . even the book of job clearly stated that satan took permission before dealing with job...

2 Likes

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by johnydon22(m): 8:16pm On Nov 06, 2014
MizMyColi:

LoL Xcapizt
cheesy
Check this out.
From a christian I deeply respect #RichardMurray.

When Isaiah is speaking here, he is translating the
divine impulses of inspiration from the Lord the best
he can. But remember, he had an undifferentiated
view of God, a fundamental blind-spot which affected
and limited everything he received from the Lord. He
wrongly believed, as did all Old Testament saints,
that Satan was the left hand of God, an obedient
extension of Yahweh's wrathful will.

This is why John 1:18 says no Old Testament saint
had truly beheld God at any time. Jesus came to
DIFFERENTIATE and DIVORCE our understanding
of God AND Satan, to completely separate and forever sever their natures, wills and purposes. As for Isaiah, he certainly knew God created light and was full of goodness, BUT he did not know that Satan was a cosmic rebel totally operating without Divine
permission or sanction.

Isaiah in this verse was misattributing, or perhaps
better described, "improperly blending" his images of
God and Satan into one bi-polar UNDIFFERENTIATED image. Jesus couldn't be clearer that Satan was a liar, murderer, and rebel being, and that he did not operate at the command of the Heavenly Father.

Sometimes, OT authors were improperly attributing Satan's works and words to Yahweh. Other times OT saints were rightly attributing Yahweh's mighty deliverances to Yahweh alone. But, still other times, such as in this Isaiah passage, the OT saint is hearing God and Satan TOGETHER at the same time. Much like a radio dial receiving two different remote station signals at the same time, what comes out is a mish-mash of conflicting notions and ideas.

Similarly, what comes out in this Isaiah verse is a
confusing and contradictory statement in need of New Testament re-translation.

excuss i thought the holy spirit influenced the bible both old and new
testament...i wonder how the holy spirit made the OT writters to write
something and at the same time make the new testament writters to write
something totally different . . even the book of job clearly stated that satan
took permission before dealing with job...biko the bible is too self contradicting. i cant just be revolving my life and thinking over a book

6 Likes

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 9:02pm On Nov 06, 2014
SeverusSnape:
The Bible is full of contradictions. I've always had questions that haven't been answered even by clergy men, the answers they offer me are not satisfactory. There are times when i bring up some topics and my friends will look at me as a heretic. I need answers too... I'm becoming an agnostic. **Xcapist xcapizt and mymizcoli, are you guys dating?**

Some questions will never have answers perhaps...but it's good that we keep asking the right questions. Anything that we're willing to stake our lives on should at least be robust enough to withstand the jabs of reason, I think. Agnosticism seems like a safe stance that detaches itself from the extremes of the alternative belief systems, and thus may make the mind-questions more tolerable.

@emboldened. Hmmm. Good question.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by SeverusSnape(m): 9:18pm On Nov 06, 2014
xcapizt:


Some questions will never have answers perhaps...but it's good that we keep asking the right questions. Anything that we're willing to stake our lives on should at least be robust enough to withstand the jabs of reason, I think. Agnosticism seems like a safe stance that detaches itself from the extremes of the alternative belief systems, and thus may make the mind-questions more tolerable.

@emboldened. Hmmm. Good question.
I concur, "more tolerable" you say, But it can't be to those fanatic religious folks. Thanks

1 Like

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by malvisguy212: 9:39pm On Nov 06, 2014
xcapizt:
1. Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make
peace and create evil, I the Lord do all these things."

2. Isaiah 54:16 "I have created the waster to destroy."

3. Prov 16:4 "The Lord has made all things for himself, yes even
the wicked for the day of evil."

4. Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High
proceeds both evil and good."

5. Amos 3:6 "Shall there be evil in
a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I
the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV) Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
(Lamentations 3:38) However, evil is not really a created thing. You can't see, touch, feel,
smell or hear evil. It is not one of the fundamental forces of physics,
nor does it consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the
universe. Still, skeptics like to claim that God created evil and cite the
Bible to "prove" their point. The Bible is quite clear that God is not the author of evil and insists that He is incapable of doing so.

Skeptics love the KJV so much, one would think that they were still
back in medieval England. Use of this translation is problematic these
days, since it uses an archaic version of modern English, which doesn't
necessarily mean the same things today as when it was translated
over 400 years ago. In addition, the KJV was produced using a limited
number of medieval manuscripts that did not represent the earliest Alexandrian set of manuscripts.


WHAT DO THE MORDEN TRANSLATION SAY?

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
(Isaiah 45:7, NASB)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, NIV)

Isaiah 45:7 contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, EVIL is not the opposite of PEACE. The Hebrew word translated "peace" is shâlôm, which has many meanings, mostly related to the well being of individuals. Râ‛âh, the Hebrew word translated "evil" in the KJV often refers to adversity or calamity. There
are two forms of the word. Strong's H7451a most often refers to moral
evil, whereas Strong's H7451b (the form used here) most often refers
to calamity or distress. Obviously, "calamity" is a better antonym of
"peace" than "evil."


Amos 3:6
If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a
calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it? (Amos 3:6, NASB)

When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When
disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? (Amos 3:6, NIV)

Likewise, Amos 3:6 uses the same word, râ‛âh, referring to calamity or disaster. the context (a disaster happening to a city) does not refer to
moral evil. Lamentations 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and
good things come? (Lamentations 3:38, NIV) Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and ill go
forth? (Lamentations 3:38, NASB) The King James Version of Lamentations 3:38 seems to suggest that God speaks both good and evil. However, if one reads the verse in
context, the preceding verses indicate that God does not do or approve of evil. The verse following indicates that people should not complain in view of their sins. What the verse really is saying that God decrees times of good things and times of judgment. Lamentations was
written by Jeremiah during a time of judgment, when Judah had gone
off into exile. Jeremiah was chosen by God to be the prophet to tell
Judah to reform or be judged. The people did not believe Jeremiah,
and, therefore, fell under God's judgment. In Lamentations 3:38, the word translated "good" is ṭôb (Strong's H2896). The word usually refers to good things as opposed to bad things. Again, râ‛âh does not refer to moral evil, but calamities, in this verse. Likewise, the Bible
commentaries indicate that the verse refers to God's judgment based upon people's sin.

God is not the author of evil. However, God does reward and punish on the basis of good and bad behavior. Therefore, God does bring
judgment and calamity (either directly or through human authorities) on those who rebel. God will ultimately judge all people, since rebels will not be allowed in the new, perfect creation.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by malvisguy212: 9:43pm On Nov 06, 2014
MizMyColi:

LoL Xcapizt
cheesy
Check this out.
From a christian I deeply respect #RichardMurray.

When Isaiah is speaking here, he is translating the
divine impulses of inspiration from the Lord the best
he can. But remember, he had an undifferentiated
view of God, a fundamental blind-spot which affected
and limited everything he received from the Lord. He
wrongly believed, as did all Old Testament saints,
that Satan was the left hand of God, an obedient
extension of Yahweh's wrathful will.

This is why John 1:18 says no Old Testament saint
had truly beheld God at any time. Jesus came to
DIFFERENTIATE and DIVORCE our understanding
of God AND Satan, to completely separate and forever sever their natures, wills and purposes. As for Isaiah, he certainly knew God created light and was full of goodness, BUT he did not know that Satan was a cosmic rebel totally operating without Divine
permission or sanction.

Isaiah in this verse was misattributing, or perhaps
better described, "improperly blending" his images of
God and Satan into one bi-polar UNDIFFERENTIATED image. Jesus couldn't be clearer that Satan was a liar, murderer, and rebel being, and that he did not operate at the command of the Heavenly Father.

Sometimes, OT authors were improperly attributing Satan's works and words to Yahweh. Other times OT saints were rightly attributing Yahweh's mighty deliverances to Yahweh alone. But, still other times, such as in this Isaiah passage, the OT saint is hearing God and Satan TOGETHER at the same time. Much like a radio dial receiving two different remote station signals at the same time, what comes out is a mish-mash of conflicting notions and ideas.

Similarly, what comes out in this Isaiah verse is a
confusing and contradictory statement in need of New Testament re-translation.
are you an athiest?
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by calyb247(m): 9:55pm On Nov 06, 2014
This is interesting... I will be back in a while
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by mooremedia: 10:25pm On Nov 06, 2014
hmmmm
I ponder on stuff Like this too...
but, the bible speaks more of God being good
so I'll rather stick with that.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 10:47pm On Nov 06, 2014
malvisguy212:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I
the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?
shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (Amos 3:6, KJV) Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
(Lamentations 3:38) However, evil is not really a created thing. You can't see, touch, feel,
smell or hear evil. It is not one of the fundamental forces of physics,
nor does it consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the
universe. Still, skeptics like to claim that God created evil and cite the
Bible to "prove" their point. The Bible is quite clear that God is not the author of evil and insists that He is incapable of doing so.
someone wants to get all scientific here. Hehe grin so you want to tell me that God can not create anything beyond the realm of sight, touch, feel, smell and hearing? just how many attributes of God are one of the fundamental forces of physics, that consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the universe? Can you quantify on a metric scale god's goodness or love or glory? But you believe they all emanate from God.... Flawed logic alert!!!

@emboldened, the bible is QUITE clear? are the passages highlighted quoted from the Koran?

Skeptics love the KJV so much, one would think that they were still
back in medieval England. Use of this translation is problematic these
days, since it uses an archaic version of modern English, which doesn't
necessarily mean the same things today as when it was translated
over 400 years ago. In addition, the KJV was produced using a limited
number of medieval manuscripts that did not represent the earliest Alexandrian set of manuscripts.
Chizoooz!! Christian never seize to amaze me with their" "wave-at-sea" doubletalk. Hahahaha. So now it's KJV, the only credible bible as upheld by most Christians, that gets the boot!? shocked one christian I interacted with on this section wouldn't accept any passage I quote that wasn't from the King James...and he's more the rule than the exception. And it's the same with some churches and now you're telling us this!? cheesy


WHAT DO THE MORDEN TRANSLATION SAY?

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
(Isaiah 45:7, NASB)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:7, NIV)
Now that you've randomly quoted from the versions with the most mild rendition of Ra'a what difference does it make? Does it make your Yahweh more appealing for creating CALAMITY and DISASTER?

The word "evil," in all the above verses you quoted above, is translated from the Hebrew word ra' and means "evil, distress, adversity, wrong, evil (ethical) and refers to both deeds and actions."

Isaiah 45:7 contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, EVIL is not the opposite of PEACE. The Hebrew word translated "peace" is shâlôm, which has many meanings, mostly related to the well being of individuals. Râ‛âh, the, Hebrew word translated "evil" in the KJV often refers to adversity or calamity. There are two forms of the word. Strong's H7451a most often refers to moral
evil, whereas Strong's H7451b (the form used here) most often refers
to calamity or distress. Obviously, "calamity" is a better antonym of
"peace" than "evil."
quit the scripture twisting already.


Amos 3:6
If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a
calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it? (Amos 3:6, NASB)

When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When
disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? (Amos 3:6, NIV)

Likewise, Amos 3:6 uses the same word, râ‛âh, referring to calamity or disaster. the context (a disaster happening to a city) does not refer to
moral evil. Lamentations 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and
good things come? (Lamentations 3:38, NIV) Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and ill go
forth? (Lamentations 3:38, NASB) The King James Version of Lamentations 3:38 seems to suggest that God speaks both good and evil. However, if one reads the verse in
context, the preceding verses indicate that God does not do or approve of evil. The verse following indicates that people should not complain in view of their sins. What the verse really is saying that God decrees times of good things and times of judgment. Lamentations was
written by Jeremiah during a time of judgment, when Judah had gone
off into exile. Jeremiah was chosen by God to be the prophet to tell
Judah to reform or be judged. The people did not believe Jeremiah,
and, therefore, fell under God's judgment. In Lamentations 3:38, the word translated "good" is ṭôb (Strong's H2896). The word usually refers to good things as opposed to bad things. Again, râ‛âh does not refer to moral evil, but calamities, in this verse. Likewise, the Bible
commentaries indicate that the verse refers to God's judgment based upon people's sin.

God is not the author of evil. However, God does reward and punish on the basis of good and bad behavior. Therefore, God does bring
judgment and calamity (either directly or through human authorities) on those who rebel. God will ultimately judge all people, since rebels will not be allowed in the new, perfect creation.
okay after all is said and done, before God created anything, there was just God and nothing else. And since there's no single iota of evil in God there was no evil anywhere and god created everything (Lucifer included)...so where did evil originate from?

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 11:14pm On Nov 06, 2014
Malvisguy212, concerning scripture versions, this may help you.

www.jesus-is-savior.com:

Every Bible-believing church ought to take a stand for the King James Bible of 1611 because of clear evidence of God's hand on the inspiration and preservation of His Word.

Over the past few decades, new Bible translations have been popping up like popcorn. Many strong Christians have stood their ground and continued to believe, read, and study only the Authorized King James Bible. Many others, however, have forsaken the Book that God has used for centuries. Such people have fallen for smooth advertising schemes and have actually started believing that the modern versions are superior to the King James Bible. It's very sad that most Christians today have not taken time to study the subject thoroughly enough to see what is really happening.


This is just a snippet, but I encourage you to study more by doing your own research about the subject matter in case of next time instead of indiscriminate use of articles that come up in searches without settling down to verify the soundness of their perspective. KJV as atheists favourite version!? Menh that's ridiculous!

You can read the rest of the above article here if you want.

1 Like

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 11:20pm On Nov 06, 2014
malvisguy212:
are you an athiest?

I doubt if she'll answer you but her signature says it all....
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 11:28pm On Nov 06, 2014
mooremedia:
hmmmm
I ponder on stuff Like this too...
but, the bible speaks more of God being good
so I'll rather stick with that.

So you'll cherry pick the parts that appeals to you and just trump out ones that don't? The Bible is the Word of God, not Words of God, innit?

Except if you'll relinquish faith in the inerrancy of the bible and infallibility of its authors and focus on maybe living as Jesus, showing love, compassion and mercy. That's a workable option, I guess.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by allen6758: 1:29am On Nov 07, 2014
MizMyColi:

LoL Xcapizt
cheesy
Check this out.
From a christian I deeply respect #RichardMurray.

When Isaiah is speaking here, he is translating the
divine impulses of inspiration from the Lord the best
he can. But remember, he had an undifferentiated
view of God, a fundamental blind-spot which affected
and limited everything he received from the Lord. He
wrongly believed, as did all Old Testament saints,
that Satan was the left hand of God, an obedient
extension of Yahweh's wrathful will.

This is why John 1:18 says no Old Testament saint
had truly beheld God at any time. Jesus came to
DIFFERENTIATE and DIVORCE our understanding
of God AND Satan, to completely separate and forever sever their natures, wills and purposes. As for Isaiah, he certainly knew God created light and was full of goodness, BUT he did not know that Satan was a cosmic rebel totally operating without Divine
permission or sanction.

Isaiah in this verse was misattributing, or perhaps
better described, "improperly blending" his images of
God and Satan into one bi-polar UNDIFFERENTIATED image. Jesus couldn't be clearer that Satan was a liar, murderer, and rebel being, and that he did not operate at the command of the Heavenly Father.

Sometimes, OT authors were improperly attributing Satan's works and words to Yahweh. Other times OT saints were rightly attributing Yahweh's mighty deliverances to Yahweh alone. But, still other times, such as in this Isaiah passage, the OT saint is hearing God and Satan TOGETHER at the same time. Much like a radio dial receiving two different remote station signals at the same time, what comes out is a mish-mash of conflicting notions and ideas.

Similarly, what comes out in this Isaiah verse is a
confusing and contradictory statement in need of New Testament re-translation.

How does anyone know what Isaiah knew or didn't know? To correct a prophet who had direct knowledge of God is arrogant.

2 Likes

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by allen6758: 1:32am On Nov 07, 2014
johnydon22:
excuss i thought the holy spirit influenced the bible both old and new testament...i wonder how the holy spirit made the OT writters to write something and at the same time make the new testament writters to write something totally different . . even the book of job clearly stated that satan took permission before dealing with job...
in the New Testament Jesus said that satan asked if he could sift Peter as wheat and it was allowed. The devil cannot do anything without permission that is in both the testaments.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by malvisguy212: 7:43am On Nov 07, 2014
xcapizt:
someone wants to get all scientific here. Hehe grin so you want to tell me that God can not create anything beyond the realm of sight, touch, feel, smell and hearing? just how many attributes of God are one of the fundamental forces of physics, that consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the universe? Can you quantify on a metric scale god's goodness or love or glory? But you believe they all emanate from God.... Flawed logic alert!!!

Chizoooz!! Christian never seize to amaze me with their" "wave-at-sea" doubletalk. Hahahaha. So now it's KJV, the only credible bible as upheld by most Christians, that gets the boot!? shocked one christian I interacted with on this section wouldn't accept any passage I quote that wasn't from the King James...and he's more the rule than the exception. And it's the same with some churches and now you're telling us this!? cheesy

Now that you've randomly quoted from the versions with the most mild rendition of Ra'a what difference does it make? Does it make your Yahweh more appealing for creating CALAMITY and DISASTER?

The word "evil," in all the above verses you quoted above, is translated from the Hebrew word ra' and means "evil, distress, adversity, wrong, evil (ethical) and refers to both deeds and actions."
quit the scripture twisting already.

okay after all is said and done, before God created anything, there was just God and nothing else. And since there's no single iota of evil in God there was no evil anywhere and god created everything (Lucifer included)...so where did evil originate from?
what denomination you belong to?

Maby you forgot to read this part."Skeptics love the KJV so much, one would think that they were still
back in medieval England. Use of this translation is problematic these
days, since it uses an archaic version of modern English, which doesn't
necessarily mean the same things today as when it was translated
over 400 years ago. In addition, the KJV was produced using a limited
number of medieval manuscripts that did not represent the earliest Alexandrian set of manuscripts."

how can you reconcile the english use back in medieval england and the version of modern english?

contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, evil is not the opposite of peace. The original manuscript use the opposites of each word but king james use evil due to uses of english word.

Example: in hausa language,love is soyeya, but if you want to say i love you in hausa is"ina son ki" they ommit the soyeya in this word for beta understanding.just like king james ommit the opposite of peace during the medieval England translation for the people back then to understand.

What you are saying now is,if God created evil,human can be able to touch,feel and see it? I dont even know what to say now,ok God created evil,how does evil look like? Have you ever touch it? Until you provide evidence that God created evil and you touch see and feel it, i will not believe you, you son of perdition.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Cherez: 8:31am On Nov 07, 2014
I am a born again Christian and I am not condemning u, Op but pls hear me out so we can reason together.
What is the definition of evil? from d lexicon:1, Moral badness, wickedness. 2, harm, injury.
Punishment? Lexicon: A suffering by pain imposed as a retribution(punishment inflicted in d spirit of "MORAL" outrage.
That our parents treats us right doesn't mean they can't flog to correct. Punishment is creating "evil" also but in this case directional and morally correct. If we go through all those verses, you'll find out that they were all talking about GOD causing evil on erring people as a punishment.
I personally do not understand or get that Isaiah is spiritually not sound. The old prophets were just not about the "GRACE" thing but all about punishment n GOD's wrath as the MEDIATOR & our great ADVOCATE hasn't been made manifest.
[YES, GOD CREATES EVIL TO PUNISH WRONGDOERS AND GOOD TO BLESS THE RIGHTEOUS].

1 Like

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 8:35am On Nov 07, 2014
Cherez:
I am a born again Christian and I am not condemning u, Op but pls hear me out so we can reason together.
What is the definition of evil? from d lexicon:1, Moral badness, wickedness. 2, harm, injury.
Punishment? Lexicon: A suffering by pain imposed as a retribution(punishment inflicted in d spirit of "MORAL" outrage.
That our parents treats us right doesn't mean they can't flog to correct. Punishment is creating "evil" also but in this case directional and morally correct. If we go through all those verses, you'll find out that they were all talking about GOD causing evil on erring people as a punishment.
I personally do not understand or get that Isaiah is spiritually not sound. The old prophets were just not about the "GRACE" thing but all about punishment n GOD's wrath as the MEDIATOR & our great ADVOCATE hasn't been made manifest.
[YES, GOD CREATES EVIL TO PUNISH WRONGDOERS AND GOOD TO BLESS THE RIGHTEOUS].

I see. Thanks for your contribution. So you're trying to say that God punishes us with evil, right? Question: does the devil also create evil?

1 Like 1 Share

Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 8:48am On Nov 07, 2014
malvisguy212:
what denomination you belong to?

Maby you forgot to read this part."Skeptics love the KJV so much, one would think that they were still
back in medieval England. Use of this translation is problematic these
days, since it uses an archaic version of modern English, which doesn't
necessarily mean the same things today as when it was translated
over 400 years ago. In addition, the KJV was produced using a limited
number of medieval manuscripts that did not represent the earliest Alexandrian set of manuscripts."

how can you reconcile the english use back in medieval england and the version of modern english?

contrasts opposites. Darkness is the opposite of light. However, evil is not the opposite of peace. The original manuscript use the opposites of each word but king james use evil due to uses of english word.

Example: in hausa language,love is soyeya, but if you want to say i love you in hausa is"ina son ki" they ommit the soyeya in this word for beta understanding.just like king james ommit the opposite of peace during the medieval England translation for the people back then to understand.


Are you saying that the KJV is not a valid translation anymore?



What you are saying now is,if God created evil,human can be able to touch,feel and see it? I dont even know what to say now,ok God created evil,how does evil look like? Have you ever touch it? Until you provide evidence that God created evil and you touch see and feel it, i will not believe you, you son of perdition.

Son of perdition!? Wow, that's a first time! grin thanks for the compliment! @emboldened: That's what you said not me. Why limit God's creative ability to matter? God himself isn't matter, neither are his attributes. Is love something you can see, touch and feel? Yet you believe God is love. Evil is a quality not an object. Now if you possess good humour and I tell you "kai, malvisguy212 you're so funny! cheesy" do we have to see touch feel as we will matter to confirm your humour? If God is capable of creating/causing disaster and calamity, why say that he is all good and no evil can be found in him? Because that evil must have emanated from somewhere.

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Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by malvisguy212: 10:12am On Nov 07, 2014
xcapizt:


Are you saying that the KJV is not a valid translation anymore?



Son of perdition!? Wow, that's a first time! grin thanks for the compliment! @emboldened: That's what you said not me. Why limit God's creative ability to matter? God himself isn't matter, neither are his attributes. Is love something you can see, touch and feel? Yet you believe God is love. Evil is a quality not an object. Now if you possess good humour and I tell you "kai, malvisguy212 you're so funny! cheesy" do we have to see touch feel as we will matter to confirm your humour? If God is capable of creating/causing disaster and calamity, why say that he is all good and no evil can be found in him? Because that evil must have emanated from somewhere.
do you feel emmbarass to let us know your religeon? King james version was use for beta undersanding durring the medieval England period,400 years back, am sure you cant compere to nowadays translation of the bible ,dont be to carried away,son of perdition is what bible called man of sin,if you dont satisfy with explanation,it alright,my post will enlighten the chosen ones,the elect. Thank you for your time.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by AlfaSeltzer(m): 10:31am On Nov 07, 2014
mooremedia:
hmmmm
I ponder on stuff Like this too...
but, the bible speaks more of God being good
so I'll rather stick with that.

Where?
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 10:45am On Nov 07, 2014
malvisguy212:
do you feel emmbarass to let us know your religeon? King james version was use for beta undersanding durring the medieval England period,400 years back, am sure you cant compere to nowadays translation of the bible ,dont be to carried away,son of perdition is what bible called man of sin,if you dont satisfy with explanation,it alright,my post will enlighten the chosen ones,the elect. Thank you for your time.

Hahaha!! No, man, I'm not ashamed, smiley many people in this section already know what I stand for, and I didn't think it'll affect the premise of the argument that was why I didn't bother to mention my (lack of) faith, but it's only courteous that I did since you categorically inquired, it's an oversight, one which I'm going to correct here: I have no religion.

I pretty much know what son of perdition means, it was used by Jesus to refer to Judas Iscariot in John. I'm not as daft as you may have assumed and my acceptance of the clause as a compliment was purely sarcastic, not realising you won't understand sarcasm when you see it. I was expecting more tolerance from you, not a descent to a cheap naming calling ad hominem. I can now see that I may have been wrong in my assumption. But it's all good.

I find the fact that your god would pick a a handful of people out of his whole creation, one he claims to love 'equally' (John 3:16), as his "chosen ones/elect" and still go ahead to claim he shows no favoritism and is a respecter of no man, so hypocritical and plain appalling. Providing evidence for his untrustworthiness and openly demonstrates that his moral ethics falls short of mere human ideals.

Romans 2:11:

New International Version
For God does not show favoritism.

New Living Translation
For God does not show favoritism.

English Standard Version
For God shows no partiality.

New American Standard Bible
For there is no partiality with God.

King James Bible
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
There is no favoritism with God.

International Standard Version
because God does not show partiality.

NET Bible
For there is no partiality with God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For there is no partiality with God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God does not play favorites.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there is no respect of persons with God.

King James 2000 Bible
For there is no respect of persons with God.

American King James Version
For there is no respect of persons with God.

American Standard Version
for there is no respect of persons with God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Darby Bible Translation
for there is no acceptance of persons with God.

English Revised Version
for there is no respect of persons with God.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Weymouth New Testament
For God pays no attention to this world's distinctions.

World English Bible
For there is no partiality with God.

Young's Literal Translation
For there is no acceptance of faces with God,
since you rather have multiple versions thrown at you! cheesy Enjoy being chosen while the rest of us continue in our God destined path of perdition.

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Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by okeke00(m): 10:48am On Nov 07, 2014
MizMyColi:

LoL Xcapizt
cheesy
Check this out.
From a christian I deeply respect #RichardMurray.

When Isaiah is speaking here, he is translating the
divine impulses of inspiration from the Lord the best
he can. But remember, he had an undifferentiated
view of God, a fundamental blind-spot which affected
and limited everything he received from the Lord. He
wrongly believed, as did all Old Testament saints,
that Satan was the left hand of God, an obedient
extension of Yahweh's wrathful will.

This is why John 1:18 says no Old Testament saint
had truly beheld God at any time. Jesus came to
DIFFERENTIATE and DIVORCE our understanding
of God AND Satan, to completely separate and forever sever their natures, wills and purposes. As for Isaiah, he certainly knew God created light and was full of goodness, BUT he did not know that Satan was a cosmic rebel totally operating without Divine
permission or sanction.

Isaiah in this verse was misattributing, or perhaps
better described, "improperly blending" his images of
God and Satan into one bi-polar UNDIFFERENTIATED image. Jesus couldn't be clearer that Satan was a liar, murderer, and rebel being, and that he did not operate at the command of the Heavenly Father.

Sometimes, OT authors were improperly attributing Satan's works and words to Yahweh. Other times OT saints were rightly attributing Yahweh's mighty deliverances to Yahweh alone. But, still other times, such as in this Isaiah passage, the OT saint is hearing God and Satan TOGETHER at the same time. Much like a radio dial receiving two different remote station signals at the same time, what comes out is a mish-mash of conflicting notions and ideas.

Similarly, what comes out in this Isaiah verse is a
confusing and contradictory statement in need of New Testament re-translation.
so they were no more written with the inspiration of God, the truth must come out one day
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by malvisguy212: 2:05pm On Nov 07, 2014
xcapizt:


Hahaha!! No, man, I'm not ashamed, smiley many people in this section already know what I stand for, and I didn't think it'll affect the premise of the argument that was why I didn't bother to mention my (lack of) faith, but it's only courteous that I did since you categorically inquired, it's an oversight, one which I'm going to correct here: I have no religion.

I pretty much know what son of perdition means, it was used by Jesus to refer to Judas Iscariot in John. I'm not as daft as you may have assumed and my acceptance of the clause as a compliment was purely sarcastic, not realising you won't understand sarcasm when you see it. I was expecting more tolerance from you, not a descent to a cheap naming calling ad hominem. I can now see that I may have been wrong in my assumption. But it's all good.

I find the fact that your god would pick a a handful of people out of his whole creation, one he claims to love 'equally' (John 3:16), as his chosen ones/elect and still go ahead to claim he shows no favoritism and is a respecter of no man, so hypocritical and plain appalling. Providing evidence for his untrustworthiness and openly demonstrates that his morally ethics falls short of mere human ideals.

since you rather have multiple versions thrown at you! cheesy Enjoy being chosen while the rest of us continue in our God destined path of perdition.
God dos not favour only the jews,he favour mankind,it is because you dont understand the way of God,the first man was a jews,i make this conclusion because the name "adam"is a jewish name, God created adam and commanded him to multiply the earth,which he did,infact it was adam that names the animals,God even say the jews will be BLESSING to all nation,what els do you want from God?
Both the Old and New Testaments indicate that God does not show partiality among people, since He is the Creator of all. Because of this principle, the Jews were commanded to be impartial. Likewise, the New Testament commands its followers to love all people and not show partiality, especially when it comes to distinctions between the rich and the poor. So, from these commandments, it is pretty clear that God was not giving preferential treatment to the Jews in
choosing them.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by asalimpo(m): 7:09pm On Nov 07, 2014
The question was ,as is usual with sceptics, asked with a critical intent. And with further preparedness to shut down all counter arguments, so it's pointless tryg to shed more light on the matter. I now actually understand why Jesus reacted some ways to different groups of people partclrly the pharisees (the religious mafia of those days ). He didnt explain or elucidate. To others He spoke in parables .
But to His disciples He shed more light.
You can't learn anything from God with a critical attitude.
The bible will always b a closed book to you.

If you're still seeking, go search google for some theoligical viewpoints on this issue. It's been asked and thrashed exhaustively online.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by UyiIredia(m): 7:19pm On Nov 07, 2014
God can make evil as well as good if you can't deal with that fact you are weak-minded
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 7:28pm On Nov 07, 2014
UyiIredia:
God can make evil as well as good if you can't deal with that fact you are weak-minded
Amen to that bro.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 7:46am On Nov 08, 2014
malvisguy212:
God dos not favour only the jews,he favour mankind,it is because you dont understand the way of God,
and who even mentioned the Jews in this conversation??
the first man was a jews,i make this conclusion because the name "adam"is a jewish name,
like for real? People come and see what this one is saying oooo!! That the first man is Jewish because his name was Adam! Hian! These Hebrew fairy tales don enter your head. If na ibo people wey write bible dey go give the characters of their story hausa names ni? Which language do you think the author of Genesis used to write the whole book, English? You sef...
God created adam and commanded him to multiply the earth,which he did,infact it was adam that names the animals,God even say the jews will be BLESSING to all nation,what els do you want from God?
If you take the Genesis story literally then I can't argue further, because my points will most likely fly over your head, and where is the fun in that?
Both the Old and New Testaments indicate that God does not show partiality among people, since He is the Creator of all. Because of this principle, the Jews were commanded to be impartial. Likewise, the New Testament commands its followers to love all people and not show partiality, especially when it comes to distinctions between the rich and the poor. So, from these commandments, it is pretty clear that God was not giving preferential treatment to the Jews in
choosing them.
This is not true!! God loved Jacob and hated Esau even before their birth, what do you call that? God handpicked people he wants to save and the ones that'll go to hell even before the foundations of the earth were laid, what do you call that? God picked (to favor) the Jewish race over any other, what do you call that? Impartiality?

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Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Tallesty1(m): 7:49am On Nov 08, 2014
xcapizt:
and who even mentioned the Jews in this conversation??
like for real? People come and see what this one is saying oooo!! That the first man is Jewish because his name was Adam! Hian! This Hebrew fairy tales don enter your head. If na ibo people write wey bible won't they give the characters of their story ibo name? Which language do you think the author of Genesis used to write the whole book, English? You sef...
If you take the Genesis story serious then I can't argue further, because my points will most likely fly over your head.
This is not true!! God loved Jacob and hated Esau even before their birth, what do you call that? God handpicked people he wants to save and the ones that'll go to hell even before the foundations of the earth were laid, what do you call that? God picked the Jewish race to favor over any other, what do you call that? Impartiality?
MizMyColi can you answer this questions?@Emboldened.

I believe you can still remember why I'm asking.


Morning Xcapizt.
Re: If God Is Only Good, How Can You Explain These Five Verses? by Nobody: 7:55am On Nov 08, 2014
Danh-dan! Tallesty1 appears on my thread (this early mo mo), chaii! my own don b for me be dat! *holds head* shocked undecided tongue cool grin

Morning Tallesty1!

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