jeffizy:

I really share your opinion all the way.
But it is a bit disturbing that the society, which we are part of and can't ignore, sees it differently.

People will always disagree and have a different view on how things should be done. The important thing is how the individual feels since that's the one who'll be living with those choices. I'm expected to get married and that's fine. I also want to, at some point I guess, but not to have a ring on my finger but a meaningful and good marriage.

society expects people to get married which in itself is okay, but doesn't really focus on the content of the marriage. I believe the latter is far more important.

DollyParton1:
According to naija standard unit of measuring success, you are not successful until you wear a ring on your finger and bear a Mrs. before your name.
Because to an average Nigerian, getting hooked to a man is the ultimate achievement in the life of a lady.
Most painful thing is that mothers are teaching their daughters these lies . And those who don't believe in these lies end up being pressured by the society into a marriage they do not want and to a man that is not right for them. At the end of the day the woman loses it all.

I slightly disagree with you as far as society being able to push someone into a marriage. The responsibility is with the individual. Not to come of as harsh, but if a woman doesn't want to be married - don't marry. i dont see how norms or a general opinion of society can push you to marry.

If it's possible then the woman must lack independence, self determination or the likes of these and the question then becomes; how do we empower women and help them be come able to make their own decision..

But society cannot be blamed for her entering the marriage.

semioyin:


I slightly disagree with you as far as society being able to push someone into a marriage. The responsibility is with the individual. Not to come of as harsh, but if a woman doesn't want to be married - don't marry. i dont see how norms or a general opinion of society can push you to marry.

If it's possible then the woman must lack independence, self determination or the likes of these and the question then becomes; how do we empower women and help them be come able to make their own decision..

But society cannot be blamed for her entering the marriage.

Lemmme break it down. I'm referring to the women who actually plan on getting married but they feel they are not ready, for one reason or the other or they just haven't found the one. Those women are easily pressurised than those ones who are resolute about not getting married at all. They go to work, everyone is singing marriage, at home its d same. Even in church and among friends, it is the same story. Tell me how such a lady won't crack even with all her success owing to the fact that she does actually plan to get married. She panics and get desperate. And these men see right through what's going on. They will date the ladies, promise them marriage and later dump them (those dumped ladies are lucky). Others marry them and then the lady realizes the man aint just it for her, he doesn't love her, probably has a wife somewhere or he is just plain promiscuous. And then they find out, it will be too late to get out, because mama and papa would insist "God forbid that you divorce your husband, it has never happened in our family and it will not start with you. You just have to endure"
What about a company's top female executive who is brilliant, beautiful and smart but has to put on a wedding band as decoy because clients and executives from other companies do not take her seriously once they realize she is not married.
There are many more instances. Bottom line is that you cannot live in a society and not be influenced by that society.

semioyin:


In the end of the day it's a lot about what value we give other's opinion. Just be a good person to the people around you and to yourself and do your thing. That would be my advice to anyone dealing with people who are being pushed by the marriage army

There's no shame in not being married, and ultimately I think most people would agree that being happily unmarried is better than being unhappily married.

The focus can't alone be whether you are married or not, it should also focus on the quality of marriage.

I totally agree with you on the bolded part,that has been my guiding principle. But sadly not everyone shares that opinion.

SirShymex:


I like that. What aspect of it do you disagree, or should I say do you think should be re-invented?

Personally, from a cultural perspective - I'm not a fan of bride price, and there should also be a list of rules both parties have to agree to, like a partnership business, before they're joined together. No just the kumbaya about "till death do us part and for better or (for) worse" thing.

I have nothing against bride price,as long as it doesn't seem like you are actually selling the lady.
The aspect I have issue with is the husband automatically Lording over the wife all in the name of culture.
And no also people should be left alone with whatever marriage decision they make.
And about the list of rules you mentioned, that's what pre-nups are for.

DollyParton1:

I have nothing against bride price,as long as it doesn't seem like you are actually selling the lady.
The aspect I have issue with is the husband automatically Lording over the wife all in the name of culture.
And no also people should be left alone with whatever marriage decision they make.
And about the list of rules you mentioned, that's what pre-nups are for.

If you don't have anything against bride price (dowry), why do you have a problem with the husband lording over the wife? Dowry fizzled out In western culture after feudalism was abolished, and I think the practice is somewhat similar to lord and serf relationship. You buy off the lady from her parents, and that should make you her overlord, isn't it? And when you think the marriage isn't worth it anymore, or it has hit a snarl, you should be able to return her to her parents, and get a refund.

Anyway, I think pre-nups have more to do with assets than rules of engagement. I was alluding to rules of engagement within the institution, with both parties being signatories to assigned roles.

DollyParton1:

Lemmme break it down. I'm referring to the women who actually plan on getting married but they feel they are not ready, for one reason or the other or they just haven't found the one. Those women are easily pressurised than those ones who are resolute about not getting married at all. They go to work, everyone is singing marriage, at home its d same. Even in church and among friends, it is the same story. Tell me how such a lady won't crack even with all her success owing to the fact that she does actually plan to get married. She panics and get desperate. And these men see right through what's going on. They will date the ladies, promise them marriage and later dump them (those dumped ladies are lucky). Others marry them and then the lady realizes the man aint just it for her, he doesn't love her, probably has a wife somewhere or he is just plain promiscuous. And then they find out, it will be too late to get out, because mama and papa would insist "God forbid that you divorce your husband, it has never happened in our family and it will not start with you. You just have to endure"
What about a company's top female executive who is brilliant, beautiful and smart but has to put on a wedding band as decoy because clients and executives from other companies do not take her seriously once they realize she is not married.
There are many more instances. Bottom line is that you cannot live in a society and not be influenced by that society.

I agree. The society somehow will affect you. I'm not saying the examples u mentioned dont happen, they do! But I personally believe that that woman should trust herself. You can't base such an important decision on the pressure of society. Many of my girlfriends are married while I'm over here busy with my studies. But I would never let the stress of marriage cause me to rush into a relationship. No one's life is the same and people do things in their time. Those women just need to stick to their own plan and eventually when they find a good man, take it from there. Like I stated earlier in this thread it's better to be alone doing your thing than to be in an unhappy marriage.

DollyParton1:

I totally agree with you on the bolded part,that has been my guiding principle. But sadly not everyone shares that opinion.

Well at least we're two who do, and I dare say that even more out there feel the same way

In 2014 you are still asking this question and people obviously from Pluto would still be asking what women are 'complaining' about.

SirShymex:


If you don't have anything against bride price (dowry), why do you have a problem with the husband lording over the wife? Dowry fizzled out In western culture after feudalism was abolished, and I think the practice is somewhat similar to lord and serf relationship. You buy off the lady from her parents, and that should make you her overlord, isn't it? And when you think the marriage isn't worth it anymore, or it has hit a snarl, you should be able to return her to her parents, and get a refund.

When I'm talking about bride price, I don't mean an outrageous amount. When my sister got married in 2005, her bride price was 1000 naira, though my dad returned it saying he wasn't sellimg her daughter and I wondered how will someone in their right sense pay 1000 naira and think they have bought the other person, that was my weekly pocket money then. And actually according to proper Yoruba tradition, the bride price should be given to the lady . dunno if people still follow that these days, but I know more people are returning the bride price
Secondly the lording over issue has to do with culture more than bride price. Many men are quick to say that its the African culture for men to Lord over their wives but like u, they are eager to kick against the bride price idea, especially;if they have to pay high amount.
Bottom line, lording over has nothing to do with bride price. Its more of an individual's character.

SirShymex:

Anyway, I think pre-nups have more to do with assets than rules of engagement. I was alluding to rules of engagement within the institution, with both parties being signatories to assigned roles.

And I don't understand why I want to go into marriage with someone signing dos and donts with them. Life is unpredictable as it is, tables can turn anytime. Why will I wanna assign roles? Who washes plates, who cooks, or who does the laundry, and who changes the baby's diaper ? Maybe who pays the bills? Or am I allowed to sleep arround? Or are my families allowed to come over?
Really I don't understand the signing of rules of engagement and role assigning you are talking about.

DollyParton1:

And I don't understand why I want to go into marriage with someone signing dos and donts with them. Life is unpredictable as it is, tables can turn anytime. Why will I wanna assign roles? Who washes plates, who cooks, or who does the laundry, and who changes the baby's diaper ? Maybe who pays the bills? Or am I allowed to sleep arround? Or are my families allowed to come over?
Really I don't understand the signing of rules of engagement and role assigning you are talking about.

Isn't these things something you'd discuss with your partner regardless.
it's a good idea to discuss what both expect beforehand. I wouldn't call it assigning roles per se but just establishing the ground rules and how we want to organize the responsibilities etc.
And then you'll see if your partner and you are on the same page or can reach an agreement

semioyin:


Isn't these things something you'd discuss with your partner regardless.
it's a good idea to discuss what both expect beforehand. I wouldn't call it assigning roles per se but just establishing the ground rules and how we want to organize the responsibilities etc.
And then you'll see if your partner and you are on the same page or can reach an agreement

Yes I will discuss every tiny details with my partner. I won't leave out any part, even the part of how we both inhale and exhale. No stone would be left unturned. We can then reach a comprise or break it up. But that we put it into ink and paper with signatures? I don't see myself doing that, because I don't see what am going to do with the document.

semioyin:


I slightly disagree with you as far as society being able to push someone into a marriage. The responsibility is with the individual. Not to come of as harsh, but if a woman doesn't want to be married - don't marry. i dont see how norms or a general opinion of society can push you to marry.

If it's possible then the woman must lack independence, self determination or the likes of these and the question then becomes; how do we empower women and help them be come able to make their own decision..

But society cannot be blamed for her entering the marriage.

True this.

DollyParton1:

When I'm talking about bride price, I don't mean an outrageous amount. When my sister got married in 2005, her bride price was 1000 naira, though my dad returned it saying he wasn't sellimg her daughter and I wondered how will someone in their right sense pay 1000 naira and think they have bought the other person, that was my weekly pocket money then. And actually according to proper Yoruba tradition, the bride price should be given to the lady . dunno if people still follow that these days, but I know more people are returning the bride price
Secondly the lording over issue has to do with culture more than bride price. Many men are quick to say that its the African culture for men to Lord over their wives but like u, they are eager to kick against the bride price idea, especially;if they have to pay high amount.
Bottom line, lording over has nothing to do with bride price. Its more of an individual's character.

I hear that. However, regardless of the amount, once you put a price/token on something, whoever pays the token/price is a buyer. That's the significance. And once you pay for something, you consciousness/subconsciously own it as a property.

Personally, I've always said I won't even 1p to marry any woman. Though I'm Yoruba and I love the culture. But the I just don't agree with the traditional marriage set-up, apart from the attire which I love. From the bride price, to all the things folks do at the ceremony for hours etc.. I was one of my cousin's groomsmen when he got married in 2012 (should have been the best-man but I allowed that bit due to the speech cos I don't like talking too much around my extended family). And the whole thing was just crazy, with all the extras, and basically sitting there for hours doing different thing just to marry one chic. Come on now, loads of chics are begging to get hitched these days, why waste so much energy on just one, especially when it isn't even a perfect institution?

My idea of a marriage ceremony is somewhere on an Island in the Caribbean, with just 4-6 witnesses. And a lot of time together with my partner, to discuss a lot of things. Not buying a woman regardless of the amount, and all the other extras.

DollyParton1:

And I don't understand why I want to go into marriage with someone signing dos and donts with them. Life is unpredictable as it is, tables can turn anytime. Why will I wanna assign roles? Who washes plates, who cooks, or who does the laundry, and who changes the baby's diaper ? Maybe who pays the bills? Or am I allowed to sleep arround? Or are my families allowed to come over?
Really I don't understand the signing of rules of engagement and role assigning you are talking about.

Yes, life's unpredictable. However, in whatever I get into, my manhood is the most important thing. And if I'm getting married to angel, I want her to remain the same. In today's world, most folks have the faces of angels, but they're Lucifer's incarnates deep in there. And like my Uncles always tell me, "women don't do unconditional love, they're always in it for something, acting like angels - but once you get married to them, the realness will start coming out. So always look before you leap and don't become a victim."

Basically, I want to discuss the skill-set we're both bringing to the table, especially traditional roles. The compromises that can be made. Etc.

SirShymex:


I hear that. However, regardless of the amount, once you put a price/token on something, whoever pays the token/price is a buyer. That's the significance. And once you pay for something, you consciousness/subconsciously own it as a property.

Personally, I've always said I won't even 1p to marry any woman. Though I'm Yoruba and I love the culture. But the I just don't agree with the traditional marriage set-up, apart from the attire which I love. From the bride price, to all the things folks do at the ceremony for hours etc.. I was one of my cousin's groomsmen when he got married in 2012 (should have been the best-man but I allowed that bit due to the speech cos I don't like talking too much around my extended family). And the whole thing was just crazy, with all the extras, and basically sitting there for hours doing different thing just to marry one chic. Come on now, loads of chics are begging to get hitched these days, why waste so much energy on just one, especially when it isn't even a perfect institution?

My idea of a marriage ceremony is somewhere on an Island in the Caribbean, with just 4-6 witnesses. And a lot of time together with my partner, to discuss a lot of things. Not buying a woman regardless of the amount, and all the other extras.

I think the traditional wedding and all its attachments is beautiful. I enjoy it a lot.
Maybe cos I haven't been to many sha.

And really? 4-6 witnesses?
When the father's side of the family is like 100 already, and mother's side is like 200. And all the mo gbo mo branch. The only way to do that is to elope.

SirShymex:


Yes, life's unpredictable. However, in whatever I get into, my manhood is the most important thing. And if I'm getting married to angel, I want her to remain the same. In today's world, most folks have the faces of angels, but they're Lucifer's incarnates deep in there. And like my Uncles always tell me, "women don't do unconditional love, they're always in it for something, acting like angels - but once you get married to them, the realness will start coming out. So always look before you leap and don't become a victim."

Basically, I want to discuss the skill-set we're both bringing to the table, especially traditional roles. The compromises that can be made. Etc.

By all means discuss that. Its actually foolish not to. But do u need it to be legally binding?
Even if u get all the top legal practitioners in the world to be witnesses, that doesn't stop the lady from showing her ugly side later on in the marriage. The best thing the signed whatever can do for you is divorce, which you can achieve without it.

DollyParton1:

I think the traditional wedding and all its attachments is beautiful. I enjoy it a lot.
Maybe cos I haven't been to many sha.

And really? 4-6 witnesses?
When the father's side of the family is like 100 already, and mother's side is like 200. And all the mo gbo mo branch. The only way to do that is to elope.

Yes, beautiful and colourful, especially the clothes and drums. But is the stress worth it? I've only been to two - my older friend's (that I grew up with) one and my cousin - and both were just hectic. With the former, I just stood outside chatting to childhood friends, drinking. And the only reason I kept going in was cos my mum kept coming outside to drag me in there to learn the procedures and get used to it. After that, I had to wave the white flag about getting hitched to a Yoruba chic, or any chic from any culture with the same thing. And with the latter, all the jumping up and down, in the name of begging for a wife isn't my thing. Heck, rope in my trouser broke in the process - embarrassing moment, though folks had a good laugh though.

I don't like crowd. All I need is my chic, man. Perhaps a few very close people to witness it - that's all.

DollyParton1:

By all means discuss that. Its actually foolish not to. But do u need it to be legally binding?
Even if u get all the top legal practitioners in the world to be witnesses, that doesn't stop the lady from showing her ugly side later on in the marriage. The best thing the signed whatever can do for you is divorce, which you can achieve without it.

Yes, it should be legally binding, so as to make a divorce easier should in case either of the two parties goes south.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of divorce especially when kids are involved.

SirShymex:


Yes, it should be legally binding, so as to make a divorce easier should in case either of the two parties goes south.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of divorce especially when kids are involved.

It seems to me that u are actually hoping your partner fails.

SirShymex:


Yes, beautiful and colourful, especially the clothes and drums. But is the stress worth it? I've only been to two - my older friend's (that I grew up with) one and my cousin - and both were just hectic. With the former, I just stood outside chatting to childhood friends, drinking. And the only reason I kept going in was cos my mum kept coming outside to drag me in there to learn the procedures and get used to it. After that, I had to wave the white flag about getting hitched to a Yoruba chic, or any chic from any culture with the same thing. And with the latter, all the jumping up and down, in the name of begging for a wife isn't my thing. Heck, rope in my trouser broke in the process - embarrassing moment, though folks had a good laugh though.

I don't like crowd. All I need is my chic, man. Perhaps a few very close people to witness it - that's all.

Lemmme give you a tip, just get tipsy, every thing woll be fun to you.
My brother and his friends consumed alcohol before my brothers introduction and engagement. They ended up catching their fun all through the ceremony. It seemed to me like some comedy show.

DollyParton1:

It seems to me that u are actually hoping your partner fails.

Er, let me just keep it real here. With people, it's always about hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and expect nothing. That's how I lead my life. And if you've ever been in long relationships, you'd know that you'll always want the best for your partner, and hope she remains that same chic you picked from loads of chics. That person you can look straight into her eyes and tell ya deepest secret. That person you love being around and chatting to. That person you can sleep next to, with ya eyes - knowing she's watching you sleep peacefully, enjoying how innocent and cute you look in ya sleep. That person who'll sleep on ya chest and tell you how amazing you're and you complement her - and vice versa. So, why would you want that to fail?

However, with life, change is the only constant thing. And folks don't love unconditionally these days (hence I don't deal with love), everything is for a reason. Now imagine if the catalyst which triggered the "love" isn't there anymore, and with kids involved. I believe there has to be rules of engagement, to keep both parties in check - so as to keep them cordial and make them continue to perform their duties in the union. Heck, even when it comes to asserting authority, you need certain tools. And when the tools aren't there anymore, there should be an agreement you can both fall back on to maintain order. Hence my reason for suggesting an agreement, for marriage as an institution in this age

I also believe that's why folks are shying away from marriage - and divorce rate is at all time high. Sometimes I chat to white senior colleague who's about 60 about why he has been married at least four times now, to women from different races and backgrounds. With the current one as his last walk. And basically, it's just the same story

DollyParton1:

Lemmme give you a tip, just get tipsy, every thing woll be fun to you.
My brother and his friends consumed alcohol before my brothers introduction and engagement. They ended up catching their fun all through the ceremony. It seemed to me like some comedy show.

Lol, alcohol will make me go berserk.

I might end up doing something I shouldn't like messing with other chics at my own wedding.

SirShymex:


Er, let me just keep it real here. With people, it's always about hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and expect nothing.

I agree. Marriage is romantic and sweet and all that, but it can't only be approached as a fairytale thing where everything works out by itself and the birds are singing and so on. You've got to be smart, realistic and critical about it.

After all you are planning to spend the rest of your life, ups and downs with that one person, investing time, money, basically your life...