chosen124:


you ve said it all
nothing to add.
we can close this thread now

Trinity is not what it is, it is what you wish it were.
There is not ONE singular standalone verse in the Christian Bible that supports the absurd concept of a trinity.

You may say "God the Father" "God the Son" and "The Holy Spirit" form a trinity
You may NOT say all three form ONE God.

Now you may close the thread.

CAPTIVATOR:
@ Malvisguy ..... Our lord Jesus Never said " I am God" !! But uv blasphem by stylishly claimin he is d Almighty , do u notice that the Bible says Jesus NEVA think about equating with God ( Phi 2: 5-7) !!! Pls explain 1 cor 15:24-28 for this thread ??

Y quote jst a part of dat chapter

malvisguy212:
Jesus claimed to have many of the attributes that God alone possesses.
Jesus claimed to have sent the prophets:
"Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and
scribes;some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you
will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
(Matthew 23:34)

However, the Old Testament indicates that God sent the prophets.16 Therefore, Jesus was claiming the authority that was previously
reserved only for God.

Can Satan not also send prophets? If he can, therefore, Satan is the almighty God.

Jesus claimed that His origins are from heaven, whereas men are from the world:
"And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from
heaven, even the Son of Man. (John 3:13) And He was saying to them,
"You are from below, I am from above;
you are of this world, I am not of this world. (John 8:23)

All spirit sons of God(including Jesus, his only begotten} existed before all flesh on earth. They(including Jesus) are not from this world of fleshy mankind. Therefore, since angels are not from this fleshy world of mankind, but from above(heaven), are they almighty God(s)?

Not only did Jesus claim to come from heaven, but He said that it was "my kingdom" Isn't heaven God's kingdom?
that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will
sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:30)
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom
were of this world, then My servants would be fighting, that I might
not be delivered up to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this
realm." (John 18:36

The father made a covenant with his son respecting His kingdom. God appointed him to serve as king in his(father's kingdom). Based on this, Jesus, as a king designate can describe such kingdom as his own. If you have been appointed as a king, by virtue of such appointment, the kingdom is yours, but is no proof of your almightiness. Later, Jesus extended the same covenant to his chosen disciples. They too will be kings and judges. See below:

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:28-30 KJV.

Jesus claimed to have existed before He was born in Bethlehem:
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I
am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself,
slipping away from the temple grounds. (John 8:58-59)
The claim included the term "I am" - a reference God made of Himself when talking to Moses. The Jews immediately recognized that Jesus was claiming to be God and attempted to stone Him.

That statement simply means Jesus existed before Abraham - thus, older and greater than him. Nothing in that statement suggests Jesus claimed to be the almighty God. The Jews did not believe Jesus was sent by God - was the promised messiah. They regarded Jesus' statement as blasphemous and utter disrespect to the man whom all Jews adored so much - Abraham. Hence, they attacked him.

Jesus also claimed to have existed "before the world began":

"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had
with you before the world began." (John 17:5) This statement is an obvious claim to deity.
Not only did Jesus claim to
exist before the creation of the universe, but He claimed to [size=20pt]share[/size] the
glory of God! Jesus also claimed that He had "all authority... in heaven and on earth" and that everything of God was His.

God created him first, and thereafter used him to create other things. So, he was there before creation of the material heavens, and of course, the earth and all the things in them.

We don't share things with oneself, but with something or someone distinct from us. The son shared the glory that belonged to his father. A son having a share of what belongs to his father is not unusual. Yes, the word share shows they are separate entities/personalities.

The authority was given to him by someone else - his father, a superior being. QUESTION: Can authority be given to someone who is truly almighty God? That would sound blasphemous! Thus, Jesus is not the almighty God, but the son of the almighty God.

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been
[size=20pt]given to Me[/size] in heaven and on earth." (Matthew 28:18) Jesus claimed to be the supreme judge who will exercise all judgment. However, there are at least 50 verses in the Bible that claim that Jehovah God will judge the earth (see Who Will Judge Mankind?). Jesus claimed to be the one to separate the "sheep from the goats".

The question again: Can someone else give authority to the almighty God? NO!!!

Jesus will be the chief judge because he has been authorized to serve in that capacity. It's no proof of his almightiness. Recall that he will not judge alone.

jdula:
Trash

Debunk op's submission let see.

morefire:
the concept of trinity can never make sense to common sense...

it is what it is

God the father
God the son and
God the Holy spirit

they exist independently yet they are one...

it is not a subject to be debated rather it is to be respected

have a nice day yall

Prove that you are not confused by shedding some light on the bolded for all to see your position clearly.

starwood:

I have searched all popular translation of the bible and all read "the word is God". Of all the Bible translations, you chose to use jehova's witness' bible to prove your point. Nawa o. The word was with God proves there are other persons in one God. Following your translation, are you also telling us that everything was created by god and not God (John 1:3-4).

Earnestly, it beats me how you arrive at the expression in bold. I will appreciate it if this can be supported with any scripture.

As for the King James Version's saying in the latter part of John 1:1 that the "Word was God," other translations say something different. Some are as follows:

1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome's New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.

1864: "and a god was the Word." The Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London.

1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed, Chicago.

1935: "the Logos was divine." A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt, New York.

1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany.

1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.

1979: "and a god was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Jurgen Becker, Würzburg, Germany.

Also, in 1950 the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., rendered the phrase, "and the Word was a god."

Do such renderings agree with the grammatical construction of John 1:1 in the Greek language? Yes, they do.

At John 1:1 there are two occurrences of the Greek noun the·os' (god). The first occurrence refers to Almighty God, with whom the Word was—"and the Word [lo'gos] was with God [a form of the·os']." This first the·os' is preceded by a form of the Greek definite article ho. The noun the·os' with the definite article ho in front of it points to a distinct identity, in this case Almighty God—"and the Word was with [the] God."

Considering the above, Jesus is distinct from his father in identity, and like he said at John 14:28, his father is greater than him.

starwood:

I have searched all popular translation of the bible and all read "the word is God". Of all the Bible translations, you chose to use jehova's witness' bible to prove your point. Nawa o. The word was with God proves there are other persons in one God. Following your translation, are you also telling us that everything was created by god and not God (John 1:3-4).

For more information, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1 .

And there are many scholars/translations, whose rendering of John 1:1 is similar to that of the JW's NWT, according to this link http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120226195730AA757Az :


C. H. Dodd - "The Word was a god" - Technical Papers for the Bible Translator, Jan., 1977.

Murray J. Harris - "the Word was a god" - p. 60, Jesus as God, Baker Book House, 1992.

Robert Young - "and a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word" - Young's Concise Critical Bible Commentary.

"And the Word was divine." - An American Translation, 19th impr., 1975.

“and the word was a god” (Newcome, 1808)

“the Word was God’s” (Crellius,as quoted in The New Testament in an Improved Version)

“and the Word was a divine being.” (La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel,1928)

“the Logos was a god (John Samuel Thompson, The Montessoran; or The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, Baltimore; published by the translator, 1829)

“the Word was divine” (Goodspeed’s An American Translation, 1939)

“the word was a god.” (Revised Version-Improved and Corrected)

“and god[-ly/-like] was the Word.” (Prof. Felix Just, S.J. - Loyola Marymount University)

“the Logos was divine” (Moffatt’s The Bible, 1972)

“the Word was God*[ftn. or Deity, Divine, which is a better translation, because the Greek definite article is not present before this Greek word] (International English Bible-Extreme New Testament, 2001)

“and the Word was a god” (Reijnier Rooleeuw, M.D. -The New Testament of Our Lord Jesus Christ, translated from the Greek, 1694)

“[A]s a god the Command was” (Hermann Heinfetter, A Literal Translation of the New Testament,1863)

“The Word was a God” (Abner Kneeland-The New Testament in Greek and English, 1822)

“[A]nd a God (i.e. a Divine Being) was the Word” (Robert Young, LL.D. (Concise Commentary on the Holy Bible [Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 54). 1885)

“the Word was a god” (Belsham N.T. 1809)

“And the logos was a god” (Leicester Ambrose, The Final Theology, Volume 1, New York, New York; M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879)

“the Word was Deistic [=The Word was Godly] (Charles A.L. Totten, The Gospel of History, 1900)

”[A]nd was a god” (J.N. Jannaris, Zeitschrift fur die Newtestameutlich Wissencraft, (German periodical) 1901, International Bible Translators N.T. 1981)

“[A] Divine Person.” (Samuel Clarke, M.A., D.D., rector of St. James, Westminster, A Paraphrase on the Gospel of John, London)

“a God” (Lant Carpenter, LL.D (in Unitarianism in the Gospels [London: C. Stower, 1809], 156).)

“a God” (Paul Wernle,(in The Beginnings of Christianity, vol. 1, The Rise of Religion [1903], 16).)

“and the [Marshal] [Word] was a god.” (21st Century Literal)

[A]nd (a) God was the word” (George William Horner, The Coptic Version of the New Testament, 1911)

“[A]nd the Word was of divine nature” (Ernest Findlay Scott, The Literature of the New Testament, New York, Columbia University Press, 1932)

[T]he Word was a God” (James L. Tomanec, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, 1958)

“The Word had the same nature as God” (Philip Harner, JBL, Vol. 92, 1974)

“And a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word” (Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1975)

“and godlike sort was the Logos” (Johannes Schneider, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1978)

“the Word was a divine Being” (Scholar’s Version-The Five Gospels, 1993)

“The Divine word and wisdom was there with God, and it was what God was” (J. Madsen, New Testament A Rendering , 1994)

“a God/god was the Logos/logos” (Jurgen Becker, Das Evangelium nach Johannes, 1979)

“The Word/word was itself a divine Being/being.” (Curt Stage, The New Testament, 1907)

“the Word was of divine kind” (Lyder Brun (Norw. professor of NT theology), 1945)

“was of divine Kind/kind” (Fredrich Pfaefflin, The New Testament, 1949)

“godlike Being/being had the Word/word” (Albrecht, 1957)

“the word of the world was a divine being” (Smit, 1960)

“God(=godlike Being/being) was the Word/word” (Menge, 1961)

“divine (of the category divinity)was the Logos” (Haenchen (tr. By R. Funk), 1984)

“And the Word was divine.” (William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. John’s Gospel, London, Macmillan & Co.,1933)

“the word was with Allah[God] and the word was a god” (Greek Orthodox /Arabic Calendar, incorporating portions of the 4 Gospels, Greek Orthodox Patriarchy or Beirut, May, 1983)

“And the Word was Divine” (Ervin Edward Stringfellow (Prof. of NT Language and Literature/Drake University, 1943)

“and the Logos was divine (a divine being)” (Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, in The Historic Jesus in the New Testament

Freksy:


Can Satan not also send prophets? If he can, therefore, Satan is the almighty God.



All spirit sons of God(including Jesus, his only begotten} existed before all flesh on earth. They(including Jesus) are not from this world of fleshy mankind. Therefore, since angels are not from this fleshy world of mankind, but from above(heaven), are they almighty God(s)?



The father made a covenant with his son respecting His kingdom. God appointed him to serve as king in his(father's kingdom). Based on this, Jesus, as a king designate can describe such kingdom as his own. If you have been appointed as a king, by virtue of such appointment, the kingdom is yours, but is no proof of your almightiness. Later, Jesus extended the same covenant to his chosen disciples. They too will be kings and judges. See below:

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:28-30 KJV.





That statement simply means Jesus existed before Abraham - thus, older and greater than him. Nothing in that statement suggests Jesus claimed to be the almighty God. The Jews did not believe Jesus was sent by God - was the promised messiah. They regarded Jesus' statement as blasphemous and utter disrespect to the man whom all Jews adored so much - Abraham. Hence, they attacked him.



God created him first, and thereafter used him to create other things. So, he was there before creation of the material heavens, and of course, the earth and all the things in them.

We don't share things with oneself, but with something or someone distinct from us. The son shared the glory that belonged to his father. A son having a share of what belongs to his father is not unusual. Yes, the word share shows they are separate entities/personalities.

The authority was given to him by someone else - his father, a superior being. QUESTION: Can authority be given to someone who is truly almighty God? That would sound blasphemous! Thus, Jesus is not the almighty God, but the son of the almighty God.



The question again: Can someone else give authority to the almighty God? NO!!!

Jesus will be the chief judge because he has been authorized to serve in that capacity. It's no proof of his almightiness. Recall that he will not judge alone.

apart from demon which satan send to possessed human, which prophet satan send?

Jesus was the spirit of God, where in the bible does it say that angels are spirit of God? Jesus claimed to be the fountain of living water. This is a clear reference to what God said of Himself as recorded by the prophet Jeremiah. Jesus said He would give rest to those who found Him. The same claim is made of God in the book of Exodus.

Jesus claimed to send the Holy Spirit (Helper). The same claim is made for God. Jesus said that He raised Himself from the dead, even though the Bible says that God did it. Among Jesus' parting words, He told His disciples to baptize new followers in "the name of
the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."

jesus say"BEFORE abraham was "I AM" the jew recognizes this same word God use for himself,it is either jesus is a sinner as you claim or jesus was right.

Jesus is the word of God, he was in the flash when he say all authority has been giving to Him, you are greater than your word because if you decided to speak, that is when your word will be active, but YOU AND YOUR WORD ARE ONE.

malvisguy212:
yes,she gave birth to jesus, there is no other word fit in than this word "birth", a man born of the spirit of God, what do you called that man? What is the difference between you and your spirit? Are they not the same?

no twist and turn ......... TRINITY is an HOAX !!!

Question 1 : Mary Gave Birth To Jesus Or God ?? Its high time u tell me u are part of d Catholic Pope empire

Question 2 : John 13:3, 27 States Clearly That Satan Was D person responsible for Jesus Death, Did Satan Kill Jesus OR God ?? Infact, hold on to ur doctrine and be givin victory to Satan !!

CAPTIVATOR:
no twist and turn ......... TRINITY is an HOAX !!!

Question 1 : Mary Gave Birth To Jesus Or God ?? Its high time u tell me u are part of d Catholic Pope empire

Question 2 : John 13:3, 27 States Clearly That Satan Was D person responsible for Jesus Death, Did Satan Kill Jesus OR God ?? Infact, hold on to ur doctrine and be givin victory to Satan !!

when a woman gave birth to a child, what causes it? Is it not the meeting between female and male? Who mate mary? Is it not the power of the Most high God overshadow her? The reason why jesus has to be born of the flash is because God want to reconcile himself to us, man was created in the image of God,but when satan deceive man, man lost the godly nature, so God dwelt in the flash to give man the opportunity to regain the godly nature,if you believe in jesus as your Lord and saviour , you will get this nature.

You say satan kill jesus? May God forgive you your sin

john 13:27-28.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.

Jesus know that satan entered Judas, jesus even advice him to do it quickly. Ask forgiveness for this wrong interpretation of the word of God.

malvisguy212:
when a woman gave birth to a child, what causes it? Is it not the meeting between female and male? Who mate mary? Is it not the power of the Most high God overshadow her? The reason why jesus has to be born of the flash is because God want to reconcile himself to us, man was created in the image of God,but when satan deceive man, man lost the godly nature, so God dwelt in the flash to give man the opportunity to regain the godly nature

why all dis story , one word answer ...... From ur statements, its clear that Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT God ! Trinity hoax

You say satan kill jesus? May God forgive you your sin

john 13:27-28.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.

if u dont understand ask : John 13 :2 reads " and the DEVIL HAD ALREADY put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon to betray him" !! The whole thing was carried out by Devil , Judas Is Just an agent , thats why Jesus calls that moment the " authority of darkness" Luke 23:53

CAPTIVATOR:
why all dis story , one word answer ...... From ur statements, its clear that Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT God ! Trinity hoax

if u dont understand ask : John 13 :2 reads " and the DEVIL HAD ALREADY put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon to betray him" !! The whole thing was carried out by Devil , Judas Is Just an agent , thats why Jesus calls that moment the " authority of darkness" Luke 23:53

what happen to your body when you die? It decompose, what matter is the soul, the breath God breath on you, but the difference with jesus is this: jesus was not created, he was God, the spirit of God was jesus walking in flash


jesus was in the flash, this is not the first time satan try this,at the Beginning) of jesus ministry satan try to tempt jesus, why dint he succeed ? Because jesus time was not yet, but when the time , he even advice Judas to do it quickly.

thank you for your time, busy now.

Freksy:


Can Satan not also send prophets? If he can, therefore, Satan is the almighty God.



All spirit sons of God(including Jesus, his only begotten} existed before all flesh on earth. They(including Jesus) are not from this world of fleshy mankind. Therefore, since angels are not from this fleshy world of mankind, but from above(heaven), are they almighty God(s)?



The father made a covenant with his son respecting His kingdom. God appointed him to serve as king in his(father's kingdom). Based on this, Jesus, as a king designate can describe such kingdom as his own. If you have been appointed as a king, by virtue of such appointment, the kingdom is yours, but is no proof of your almightiness. Later, Jesus extended the same covenant to his chosen disciples. They too will be kings and judges. See below:

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:28-30 KJV.





That statement simply means Jesus existed before Abraham - thus, older and greater than him. Nothing in that statement suggests Jesus claimed to be the almighty God. The Jews did not believe Jesus was sent by God - was the promised messiah. They regarded Jesus' statement as blasphemous and utter disrespect to the man whom all Jews adored so much - Abraham. Hence, they attacked him.



God created him first, and thereafter used him to create other things. So, he was there before creation of the material heavens, and of course, the earth and all the things in them.

We don't share things with oneself, but with something or someone distinct from us. The son shared the glory that belonged to his father. A son having a share of what belongs to his father is not unusual. Yes, the word share shows they are separate entities/personalities.

The authority was given to him by someone else - his father, a superior being. QUESTION: Can authority be given to someone who is truly almighty God? That would sound blasphemous! Thus, Jesus is not the almighty God, but the son of the almighty God.



The question again: Can someone else give authority to the almighty God? NO!!!

Jesus will be the chief judge because he has been authorized to serve in that capacity. It's no proof of his almightiness. Recall that he will not judge alone.

Apart from the striked word..Coz it was not very clear or made known in the bible if Christ was created. You are very very on point and I agree with you totally.

I wonder how some of you christians claimed not to be catholic triniterian but believe strongly in three co-equal God as one HOW? For Godsake How?

Jesus never claimed to be equal with Yahweh his father...this is a big error that needs to be erased coz is scaring away people that genuinely want to seek God

Nice one Freksy. HaShalom Aleikhem!

Maamin:


Apart from the striked word..Coz it was not very clear or made known in the bible if Christ was created. You are very very on point and I agree with you totally.

I wonder how some of you christians claimed not to be catholic triniterian but believe strongly in three co-equal God as one HOW? For Godsake How?

Jesus never claimed to be equal with Yahweh his father...this is a big error that needs to be erased coz is scaring away people that genuinely want to seek God

Nice one Freksy. HaShalom Aleikhem!

Nobody is created BY Evolution

You and I are part of the Creation BY GOD

But Jesus is "the beginning of Creation By God" Rev 3:14