Every part of it.

If you fail in just one of it ehn, na hellfire straight

So you must keep the whole law, and statutes and judgements and commandments of The Most High God.

MrPresident1:
Every part of it.

If you fail in just one of it ehn, na hellfire straight

So you must keep the whole law, and statutes and judgements and commandments of The Most High God.

It's either you're high or outdated

I am neither high nor outdated. If you do not keep the laws of God, you can never be wise.

YOU MUST KEEP THE LAWS OR ELSE...

Keeping the Law is not a must ,its a choice . And failing one of it is not hell fire

scosco1:
Keeping the Law is not a must ,its a choice . And failing one of it is not hell fire

My friend, keeping all the laws and commandments and statutes of The Most High God is a COMPLETE MUST. If you do not keep the Laws, you will go to hell

MrPresident1:


My friend, keeping all the laws and commandments and statutes of The Most High God is a COMPLETE MUST. If you do not keep the Laws, you will go to hell

Firstly , throughout the Hebrew scriptures there is no word for "Hell" . Its a greek concept like ...zeus/hades !

Secondly, when G-d spoke to Moses aπϑ gave the Torah τ̲̅ȍ Moses Heaven and hell aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ not mentioned through out the portions of the Torah.

Thirdly ,G-d's punishment is punishment that fits the crime. We are finite aπϑ our sins aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ finite. Only G-d is Eternal !
Deuteronomy 5:29
29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they (WOULD) fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

...Not the word in bracket ...there is no cumpolsion . Its not stating..." That they (MUST) fear me .."

scosco1:


Firstly , throughout the Hebrew scriptures there is no word for "Hell" . Its a greek concept like ...zeus/hades !

Secondly, when G-d spoke to Moses aπϑ gave the Torah τ̲̅ȍ Moses Heaven and hell aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ not mentioned through out the portions of the Torah.

Thirdly ,G-d's punishment is punishment that fits the crime. We are finite aπϑ our sins aя̩̥̊ε̲̣̣̣̥ finite. Only G-d is Eternal !
Deuteronomy 5:29
29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they (WOULD) fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

...Not the word in bracket ...there is no cumpolsion . Its not stating..." That they (MUST) fear me .."

Maybe Moses did not mention hell by name truly, but he did show us how to identify hell...

Deuteronomy 28:15
15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

Continue reading to the end of the chapter, and see the description of hell.

You are very wrong when you say that the fear of God is not compulsory, the fear of God is VERY COMPULSORY. It is the whole duty of man. You must fear God with all your life.

Joshua 1:8
8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

You must keep the laws or you will not be wise, and if you are not wise, you are a living-dead and you are already in hell

Anybody that is not keeping the law is already in hellfire

So if you are in Christianity and you are always saying that the laws of God have been abolished, and we no longer have to keep them, it is because you are already in hell that is why you are saying that.

MrPresident1:
Anybody that is not keeping the law is already in hellfire

So if you are in Christianity and you are always saying that the laws of God have been abolished, and we no longer have to keep them, it is because you are already in hell that is why you are saying that.

I never said that the Law has been abolished . All am saying is that its a matter of choice - you can chose to or not too . There is no compulsion or threats ! Its rather better and a wise choice to observe the Law. The Law is based on freewill and one is punished based on freewill to sin .

And it seems you have really bought into this idea of Hell !
Anyway , if that is what motivates you to be observant of the Laws ...good for you.

From Torah concept of punishment for those that contravene the Law - it could be Divine punishmnt, Natural punishment( laws of nature ) or legal punishment( juridistic) . These forms of punishmnts awaits one who contravenes when alive .
When the person is dead there is no more activity going on.
When one is dead the spirit of a person sleeps, no matter how long the person's been dead. The dead experiences nothing...no dream , no activity or vision . The dead will never even know if they exist ...( That is why G-d detests necromancy - we do not disturb the dead or use mediums to communicate or wake up the spirit of the dead ) .
Noone is judged upon upon death, untill a certain time comes. When the G-d of Israel will restore the bodies that has been rotting and dry bones rise again. G-d will cause all to live again wether good or bad, the resurrection will take place and then all will be judged then .
If a person wasn't Torah observant,that person will be resurrected to an existence of " shame and everlasting contempt " - daniel 12:2 -3
"  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


Note pls there is no mention of " shame and contempt " before the resurrection takes place .

Eccl 9:10 " 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. "

Please try and water down ur concept of " hell"

I TIM 1 vs 3-10

3: As I urged you when I went into Macedonia--remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4: nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith.
5: Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
6: from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
7: desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8: But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,
9: knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10: for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

This is the Word of Truth as revealed by the Spirit of Truth, let us hold on to the TRUTH. GOD BLESS US ALL

I created this thread to show people that the Laws of God are not what they have been portrayed to be by those people who would love to have us in perpetual slavery. Christianity is one religion that is founded on the very erroneous (I use this word but I would prefer a harder hitting word) doctrine that the Laws of God have been done away with forever and that we are now all under grace.

This is a very erroneous doctrine because it is not founded on knowledge, but on a very evil attempt to keep the children of God in perpetual bondage, servitude, oppression and slavery. Any one who does not keep the Laws is in hellfire.

How can what The Lord Himelf gave to Moses and commanded to be kept by all generations become a hydra-headed monster tht must not even be mentioned?

We have all been condtioned to fear the Laws, and we fear the Laws because we do not understand what the Law really is.

Nehemiah 8:13-14
13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:


The scales begin to fall when we begin to ask critical questions like eg. What exactly is the Law?

Many of the opponents of the Law quote Apostle Paul's letters to the effect that the Laws of God have been abolished, and we are all living under grace. This is not true. A true understanding of Paul's contexts can never be gained unless one understands and masters where Paul draws His precept. Paul probably never said much himself, but quoted heavily from the Old testament. Suffice it to say that without mastery of the Old testament, quoting Paul alone, is just not right.

What exactly is the Law of God?

Lamentations 2:9
9 Her gates are sunk into the ground; he hath destroyed and broken her bars: her king and her princes are among the Gentiles: the law is no more; her prophets also find no vision from the LORD.

The cry of anguish that came when Jerusalem was captured and burned and its inhabitants deported by Nebuchadnezzer; 'the law is no more'

What is the Law that God Himself gave to Moses and commanded to be kept by all generations forever? The Law Which if a man do them, he shall live by them;

Ezekiel 20:11-13
11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.
12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them;

You must be willing to open your mind to true knowledge. You must be willing to purge yourself of toxic knowledge. You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

What is the Law?

What is hellfire?

Is the Law about sacrifices of rams, goats, sheep, and cattle? About ascetic practices; touch not not, eat not, look not, etc.?
About esoteric knowledge?

Is hellfire a literal burning furnace? How can a supposedly all-loving God create a literal burning furnace for the souls of his creation? Isnt the very thought incongrous? But hell is real, and worse than a literal burning furnace

Why are we afraid of the Law, which if we do not keep we will never be wise?

Why are we afraid of hellfire when we all have been wallowing in it for eons? What is the Law?

What is hellfire?

Is the Law about sacrifices of rams, goats, sheep, and cattle? About ascetic practices; touch not not, eat not, look not, etc.?
About esoteric knowledge?

Is hellfire a literal burning furnace? How can a supposedly all-loving God create a literal burning furnace for the souls of his creation? Isnt the very thought incongrous? But hell is real, and worse than a literal burning furnace

Why are we afraid of the Law, which if we do not keep we will never be wise?

Why are we afraid of hellfire when we all have been wallowing in it for eons?

MrPresident1:
Every part of it.

If you fail in just one of it ehn, na hellfire straight

So you must keep the whole law, and statutes and judgements and commandments of The Most High God.

Okay,
Exodus 22:18 King James Version (KJV)

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Seeing that you approve all the laws of the bible....I ask you then...what is the best way to kill a "witch"?
would you burn a "witch"?
would you slit the "witch's" throat?
Would you bash the brains out?
What would you have done to the 10 year old that was accused of witchcraft?
Since all the biblical laws are correct to you,would you kill all who are accused of being a "witch"?

davien:
Okay,
Exodus 22:18 King James Version (KJV)

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Seeing that you approve all the laws of the bible....I ask you then...what is the best way to kill a "witch"?
would you burn a "witch"?
would you slit the "witch's" throat?
Would you bash the brains out?
What would you have done to the 10 year old that was accused of witchcraft?
Since all the biblical laws are correct to you,would you kill all who are accused of being a "witch"?

Good question.

davien:
Okay,
Exodus 22:18 King James Version (KJV)

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Seeing that you approve all the laws of the bible....I ask you then...what is the best way to kill a "witch"?
would you burn a "witch"?
would you slit the "witch's" throat?
Would you bash the brains out?
What would you have done to the 10 year old that was accused of witchcraft?
Since all the biblical laws are correct to you,would you kill all who are accused of being a "witch"?

witchcraft derives from idolatry. It is like a localised cancerous growth, when it is discovered and immediately excised, there is no cause for alarm. But when the cancer is allowed to grow and metastasize, it becomes difficult to remove and may eventually claim life.

MrPresident1:


witchcraft derives from idolatry. It is like a localised cancerous growth, when it is discovered and immediately excised, there is no cause for alarm. But when the cancer is allowed to grow and metastasize, it becomes difficult to remove and may eventually claim life.

Despite it being unvalidated.......would you still kill one who you perceived is a "witch"?

davien:
Despite it being unvalidated.......would you still kill one who you perceived is a "witch"?

I can presume that most christians lack information of how the Mosaic Law is applied. Most I know get their understandin of the Law from NT/Church negative opinions and due to lack of the understanding of it and how its applied in practical living.
The Law was given to Israel long ago. It was given to an entire society as their penal code/ law of the land. It wasn't given to oe person. It was a national revelation. Each city had their holiest people as their judges/local magistrates. These judges were well educated in the Law of the Torah ....if you we're to take matters into ur hands you will be committing a capital offense.
If I do not have a fellow witness of what I accuse the girl of as either being a witch and really prove it ,then the girl will be considered innocent.

Anyway not to write too much ... ! This is what happens when you don't really understand the scriptures as christians hav always done over the centuries like the period of the spanish inquisitions .

scosco1:


I can presume that most christians lack information of how the Mosaic Law is applied. Most I know get their understandin of the Law from NT/Church negative opinions and due to lack of the understanding of it and how its applied in practical living.
The Law was given to Israel long ago. It was given to an entire society as their penal code/ law of the land. It wasn't given to oe person. It was a national revelation. Each city had their holiest people as their judges/local magistrates. These judges were well educated in the Law of the Torah ....if you we're to take matters into ur hands you will be committing a capital offense.
If I do not have a fellow witness of what I accuse the girl of as either being a witch and really prove it ,then the girl will be considered innocent.

Anyway not to write too much ... ! This is what happens when you don't really understand the scriptures as christians hav always done over the centuries like the period of the spanish inquisitions .

Really?... but you hold the 10 commandments as universal when it was also applied to a select group....why do you pick and choose biblical laws?
You won't obey the law to kill a "witch",but you'd accuse people of violating the commandments?

And please , am sure G-d expects us to use reason and rationality in all we do evenn in discerning the sayings of the Law. There are interpretative procedures/ methodologies that balancies the Torah revelation with rational commonsense please.

davien:
Really?... but you hold the 10 commandments as universal when it was also applied to a select group....why do you pick and choose biblical laws?
You won't obey the law to kill a "witch",but you'd accuse people of violating the commandments?

We don't chose and pick biblical laws ...environment, circumstances determine how these Laws can b applied . Israel is still in exile, no Temple , no sacrifices and a lot plseas.

scosco1:


We don't chose and pick biblical laws ...environment, circumstances determine how these Laws can b applied . Israel is still in exile, no Temple , no sacrifices and a lot plseas.

so you are saying "god's law" is relative and not absolute?

davien:
Really?... but you hold the 10 commandments as universal when it was also applied to a select group....why do you pick and choose biblical laws?
You won't obey the law to kill a "witch",but you'd accuse people of violating the commandments?

And yes , the 10 commndmnts is still the bedrock of our present civilisation and even the utopian era or ideal society or civilization humankind expects to achieve .
Is it value of life , world peace, justice and equity, education, family, social responsibility, human dignity, animal rights, childrens rights, environmentalism, fair taxation, womens rights, social freedom, aπϑ more please .

scosco1:


And yes , the 10 commndmnts is still the bedrock of our present civilisation and even the utopian era or ideal society or civilization humankind expects to achieve .
Is it value of life , world peace, justice and equity, education, family, social responsibility, human dignity, animal rights, childrens rights, environmentalism, fair taxation, womens rights, social freedom, aπϑ more please .

okay,what I am actually asking is that are there situations where one or more laws does not apply as moral..
Like would killing be justified if you did it in self defense.
Or would stealing be moral if done without the use of harm by a child to fend for himself/herself?

davien:
okay,what I am actually asking is that are there situations where one or more laws does not apply as moral..
Like would killing be justified if you did it in self defense.
Or would stealing be moral if done without the use of harm by a child to fend for himself/herself?

Am sure the slogan " Israel has a right to defend itself isn't new to you " aπϑ also the Torah encourages that all its Laws be violated and no expense oe effort spared in order to save a life

The man of steel ( superman ) is an example of a jewish concept with Torah's. Eternal concept as a glimpse in the way we can act and value life and stand for truth aπϑ also in a funny way the expected Jewish moshiach who should enable an ushering of the utopian era . Don't mind me ny friend its just a light explanation view

The question is, what exactly is the Law? Until we are able to understand what the Law is truly about, we will all just continue to fear what we are ignorant of.

There is no chain like the chain of ignorance, any wonder why Jesus Christ said, 'You will know the truth and the truth will set you free'?

What is the Law? This is what David, whom The Most High Himself affirms as the man after his soul, says;

Psalm 119:97
O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Because of the Law of the Most High God given to Moses, and commanded to be thought to Israel, and to be kept for ever, David says;

Psalm 119:100
I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Because David kept the Law, he became wiser than his enemies, he understood more than all his teachers; he understood more than the ancients.

So if I want to be wise, if I want to be a man of understanding, if I want to understand more than the Ancients, If I want God Almighty Himself to affirm me by calling me a man after His soul, I should try to keep the Law as David did. Kapisch?

So what is this Law that so delighted David that he meditated in/on it all day long?

At this point, I must correct this a few centuries old falsehood;

ISRAEL DID NOT LOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD BECAUSE THE LAW(S) WERE CUMBERSOME OR SO DIFFICULT TO KEEP. THIS MISCONCEPTION HAS GONE ON FOR TOO LONG AND IT MUST BE SMASHED! IT MUST BE CRUSHED AND DESTROYED COMPLETELY!!!

THE LAWS OF GOD ARE PERFECT LAWS.

ISRAEL DID NOT LOSE IT BECAUSE THE LAWS ARE/WERE DIFFICULT TO KEEP.

ISRAEL LOST RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AS A RESULT OF WILFUL STONEHEADED HARDHEARTED DISOBEDIENCE, COMPOUND WICKEDNESS, AND THE CHIEF OF ALL SINS, IDOLATRY

Jeremiah 32:23
23 And they came in, and possessed it; but they obeyed not thy voice, neither walked in thy law; they have done nothing of all that thou commandedst them to do: therefore thou hast caused all this evil to come upon them: