[b]I’m afraid that the crucifixion story doesn’t strike me as that big a deal.

The Christian will say that death by crucifixion was a horrible, humiliating way to die. That the death of Jesus was a tremendous sacrifice, more noble and selfless than a person sacrificing himself for the benefit of a butterfly. And isn’t it worth praising something that gets us into heaven?

Here are ten reasons why I’m unimpressed.
1. Sure death sucks, but why single out this one? Lots of people die. In fact, lots died from crucifixion. The death of one man doesn’t make all the others insignificant. Was Jesus not a man but actually a god? If so, that has yet to be shown.
It’s not like this death is dramatically worse than death today. Crucifixion may no longer be a worry, but cancer is. Six hours of agony on the cross is pretty bad, but so is six months of agony from cancer.

2. What about that whole hell thing? An eternity of torment for even a single person makes Jesus’s agony insignificant by comparison, and it counts for nothing when you consider the billions that are apparently going to hell.

3. Jesus didn’t even die. The absurdity of the story, of course, is the resurrection. If Jesus died, there’s no miraculous resurrection, and if there’s a resurrection, there’s no sacrifice through death. Miracle or sacrifice—you can’t have it both ways. The gospels don’t say that he died for our sins but that he had a rough couple of days for our sins.

4. Taking on the sin vs. removal of sin aren’t symmetric. We didn’t do anything to get original sin. We just inherited it from Adam. So why do we have to do anything to get the redemption? If God demands a sacrifice, he got it. That’s enough. Why the requirement to believe to access the solution?

5. The reason behind the sacrifice—mankind’s original sin—makes no sense. Why blame Adam for a moral lapse that he couldn’t even understand? Remember that he hadn’t yet eaten the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, so who could blame him when he made a moral mistake?
And how can we inherit original sin from Adam? Why blame us for something we didn’t do? That’s not justice, and the Bible agrees:

Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin (Deut. 24:16)

6. Jesus made a sacrifice—big deal. Jesus is perfect, so his doing something noble is like water flowing downhill. It’s unremarkable since he’s only acting out his nature. What else would you expect from a perfect being?
But imagine if I sacrificed myself for someone. In the right circumstance, I’d risk my life for a stranger—or at least I hope I would. That kind of sacrifice is very different. A selfish, imperfect man acting against his nature to make the ultimate unselfish sacrifice is far more remarkable than a perfect being acting according to his nature, and yet people make sacrifices for others all the time. So why single out the actions of Jesus? Aren’t everyday noble actions by ordinary people more remarkable and laudable?

7. What is left for God to forgive? The Jesus story says that we’ve sinned against God (a debt). Let’s look at two resolutions to this debt.

(1) God could forgive the debt of sin. You and I are asked to forgive wrongs done against us, so why can’t God? Some Christians say that to forgive would violate God’s sense of justice, but when one person forgives another’s debt, there’s no violation of justice. For unspecified reasons, God doesn’t like this route.
And that leaves
(2) where Jesus pays for our sin. But we need to pick 1 or 2, not both. If Jesus paid the debt, there’s no need for God’s forgiveness. There’s no longer anything for God to forgive, since there’s no outstanding debt.
Here’s an everyday example: when I pay off my mortgage, the bank doesn’t in addition forgive my debt. There’s no longer a debt to forgive! Why imagine that God must forgive us after he’s already gotten his payment?

8. The Jesus story isn’t even remarkable within mythology. Jesus’s sacrifice was small compared to the Greek god Prometheus, who stole fire from Olympus and gave it to humanity. Zeus discovered the crime and punished Prometheus by chaining him to a rock so that a vulture could eat his liver. Each night, his liver grew back and the next day the vulture would return, day after agonizing day. The gospel story, where Jesus is crucified once and then pops back into existence several days later, is unimpressive by comparison.

9. The Bible itself rejects God’s savage “justice.” This is the 21st century. Must Iron Age customs persist so that we need a human sacrifice? If God loves us deeply and he wants to forgive us, couldn’t he just … forgive us? That’s how we do it, and that’s the lesson we get from the parable of the Prodigal Son where the father forgives the son even after being wronged by him. If that’s the standard of mercy, why can’t God follow it? Since God is so much greater a being than a human, wouldn’t he be that much more understanding and willing to forgive?
If we were to twist the Prodigal Son parable to match the crucifixion story, the father might demand that the innocent son be flogged to pay for the crime of the prodigal son. Where’s the logic in that?

10. The entire story is incoherent. Let’s try to stumble through the drunken logic behind the Jesus story.
God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?
But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.
So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical. It’s like an abused wife thanking her abuser. We can just as logically curse God for consigning us to hell from birth.
Perhaps I can be forgiven for being unimpressed by the crucifixion story.

Jesus died for my sins?
Tell him I said thanks.
(Seen on a bumper sticker)

At least when Elvis died for my sins,
he stayed dead!
(Seen on another bumper sticker)

Source
[/b]

Good insights..

mehn this is so superb but I wount talk much waiting for the Christian to defend this.
op abi na opc pls can you show this to the world.

i don't know where to start saving you right now from your ignorance, perhaps i will kill myself so that you will be saved, well hell no i will rather give you a slap to enable you sober up next time you'll get your hands on bottles.

If this pile of poo makes frontpage, it's goodbye to Nairaland for good!

Sad indeed!

People go wake up just to make irrelevant thread, I see no meaning in this thread but an op's ignoramus is on display

I can feel your pain, really i do.....

But you know where you've got it all wrong?

The Hell Theory.

1Corinthians2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he knowthem, because they are spiritually discerned.

Common, I don't expect you to believe it.. Continue to wallow in your ignorance..

malakh7:
Instead of making valid points you go about swearing and cursing.

Says a lot about your religion.

Instead of you thinking and pleading to God to save you out of your ignorance, you are here spewing rubbish about something you don't know..

Says a lot about how you reason and how jobless you are!

malakh7:
Instead of making valid points you go about swearing and cursing.

Says a lot about your religion.

In Christianity, we don't argue to prove ourselves unlike our neighboring faiths, but if you have the zeal and the willingness to understand then come with us. We don't argue, because our God is capable of proving Himself.

OP you came up with the impression that God isn't coherent and you expect his children to sit back and nod their heads in agreement.

Take this first, God is not out to prove anything to you not to talk of impressing you. He is the creator of everything. All things were made by Him and for Him.
Your understanding of this God is warped and typical of fallen men.

1.Jesus death was not ordinary. This is because He was God in flesh, His death was prophesied, He knew He was going to die and the kind of death. His death was for a purpose. A valid death!

2. Jesus did not die for everybody! only for the elect. Shocking but true.And all this people He died for will be saved! none will be lost.

3.Jesus didnt die? why did it take you time to say this.
You cant prove this cos He died. Simple.
His resurrection proves His divinity and victory. If Jesus didn't resurrect we( Christians) are of all men the most miserable.

4.Well we aint better than Adam. We were all in Adam when he sinned. All descendants so it isn't illogical that we inherited this sinful nature too..

5. It is true that everybody will account for his or her sins. That verse is talking about the deeds of our flesh in this life not our not our sinful nature.
We will be judged according to these deeds done in our body individually not our inherited wicked nature.

6.A wicked person is not wicked unto man first but unto God first. This whole thing is God centered. If you aint right with God you will die in your sins whether you hang yourself for everybody. And of course men will acknowledge and maybe reverence you but the same cant be said for God.

7. Debt paid on the cross= forgiveness to all the elect of God. Their personal salvation comes subsequently.

8. As long as God is glorified we couldn't care less who is impressed or not.

9.There cant be remission of sin without shedding of blood. He had to be both just and the justifier of the ungodly. You are asked to forgive cos you are not better that the offender only God is. And you know, their wrongdoings wont go unpunished. God avenges by Himself, that's His job.

10. Again, Christ did not die for everyone. You have been taught wrongly.

lol....nice thread

that's xtianity for you,nothing makes sense.Islam is the answer.

crusadistic:
that's xtianity for you,nothing makes sense.Islam is the answer.

hahahahahahaha Islam? . . . which one exactly makes sense, is it getting pvssy in heaven or fvcking blowing up the earth makes sense

johnydon22:


hahahahahahaha Islam? . . . which one exactly makes sense, is it getting pvssy in heaven or fvcking blowing up the earth makes sense

how is having/being with a wife in heaven illogical ?

You can go and do the needful, we can only pray for y'all...

crusadistic:
how is having/being with a wife in heaven illogical ?

OK lets start this way. . . In planet earth our form is human body and our extension is our head, eyes, nose, hands and others..


So now when you are in heaven in what form and extension will you exist?

johnydon22:


OK lets start this way. . . In planet earth our form is human body and our extension is our head, eyes, nose, hands and others..


So now when you are in heaven in what form and extension will you exist?

you're applying xtian belief to Islam.in Islam we will be also be in our human bodies in paradise or hell.

crusadistic:
you're applying xtian belief to Islam.in Islam we will be also be in our human bodies in paradise or hell.

Oh really? ok explain lets see... After you die what happens next?

johnydon22:


Oh really? ok explain lets see... After you die what happens next?

the soul leaves the body,you get buried till you're resurrected on judgement day.

crusadistic:
the soul leaves the body,you get buried till you're resurrected on judgement day.

Its getting interesting...lets progress (am sure there is a similar christian doctrine tho...)

so you wait until resurrection then your rotten body grows back again and you resurrect from the grave fully still in human form...

After that where will you exist then earth or paradise?

johnydon22:


Its getting interesting...lets progress (am sure there is a similar christian doctrine tho...)

so you wait until resurrection then your rotten body grows back again and you resurrect from the grave fully still in human form...

After that where will you exist then earth or paradise?

after resurrection is judgement to either Paradise or Hell.

crusadistic:
the soul leaves the body,you get buried till you're resurrected on judgement day.

How do you know all these info

crusadistic:
after resurrection is judgement to either Paradise or Hell.

Ok where is paradise or hell located?

johnydon22:


Ok where is paradise or hell located?

according to majority of scholars,paradise is located in the seventh heaven while hell is located in the earth.
and Allah knows best.

crusadistic:
according to majority of scholars,paradise is located in the seventh heaven while hell is located in the earth.
and Allah knows best.

Where is the seventh heaven located?


where on earth is hell. . . We have 7continents and many islands. . so where is it?

johnydon22:
Where is the seventh heaven located?


where on earth is hell. . . We have 7continents and many islands. . so where is it?

I didn't say on earth,Hell is located inside/beneath the earth.Allah's entire creation can be found inside these seven heavens which are positioned one over another the first heaven which is the lowest contains the planets,stars etc and they are separated from each other by a boundary it could be actual distances or a different dimension entirely.these your questions of where heaven and hell is located aren't even relevant.
"Then He ordained them seven heavens in two
periods and inspired in each heaven its laws and duty and We decked the nearest/lowest heaven with brilliant stars, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the All Mighty, the All Knower" [Quran 41:12]
"[Hallowed be] He who has created seven heavens one above another and in full harmony with one another: no fault will thou see in the creation of the Most Gracious. And turn thy vision [upon it] once more: canst thou see any flaw?" [Quran 67:3]

crusadistic:
I didn't say on earth,Hell is located inside/beneath the earth.Allah's entire creation can be found inside these seven heavens which are positioned one over another the first heaven which is the lowest contains the planets,stars etc and they are separated from each other by a boundary it could be actual distances or a different dimension entirely.these your questions of where heaven and hell is located aren't even relevant.
3]

it is very relevant cus we need to know if you even know where is it you think you are going...


So on which continent exactly is the hell located beneath?


So this 7 heavens you are talking about are they within the observable universe or outside it?

crusadistic is just pretending to know what he doesn't.

Religionsection:
1Corinthians2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he knowthem, because they are spiritually discerned.

Common, I don't expect you to believe it.. Continue to wallow in your ignorance..

Come on shut up your dumb, colonised mouth. You cannot counter one single point the op made, and neither can your greedy pastor. Dumb airhead quoting rubbish. That verse you posted was inserted by Europeans to prevent you from using your brain. Olodo.