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Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion - Religion - Nairaland

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Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Religionsection(f): 9:34pm On Nov 29, 2014
A former Muslim imam who converted to
Christianity believes that God protected him
from death threats and torture at the hands of
his family members.

“The holy Quran converted me to Christianity,”
said Mario Joseph, a former imam who shared the
story of his conversion and subsequent
persecution with the HM Television program
“Changing Tracks,” broadcast by the EUK Mamie
Foundation run by the Home of the Mother
religious community.

The English-language interview, first posted in
April 2014, now has more than 250,000 views on
YouTube.
Mario Joseph grew up in India in a Muslim family.
His mother dedicated him to God when he was a
baby. She had rejected doctors’ advice to abort
him when she had an infected womb during
pregnancy.

Enrolled at a young age in a Muslim Arabic
college in the southern Indian state of Kerala,
he studied philosophy and theology for 10 years.
He became an imam before he reached the age
of 18.
After someone asked him about who Jesus was,
Mari Joseph began to investigate Christianity.
Studying the Quran, he noticed that the name of
Jesus was mentioned more often than the name
of Islam’s prophet Mohammed and that Mary,
known in Arabic as Mariam, was the only woman
mentioned by name in the Quran. In Islam, Mary
is recognized as a perpetual virgin who was
conceived without sin.
It struck him to consider why the Quran would
“give more preference to Jesus” and why it says
“all these things about Mariam.”
The Quran describes Jesus as the “Word of God”
and the “Spirit of God.” It says Jesus healed the
sick and brought the dead to life and went to
heaven alive. It does not depict the Prophet
Mohammed doing any of this, he explained.
In addition, Mario Joseph came to understand
God as a father, something also taught by
Christianity.

“Whenever I think that the creator of the
universe is my dad, I have a kind of joy which I
cannot express,” he said in an interview.
With this motivation, he explained, “I decided to
accept Jesus.”

However, this conversion to Christianity triggered
a violent reaction from family members, he said,
recounting that his father found him at a
Catholic retreat center and beat him badly, to
the point that he lost consciousness. When he
awoke, he found himself naked in a small room at
his family’s home. His arms and legs were bound
and hot chili had been placed in his mouth and
his wounds.
Mario Joseph said that his father was obeying
the law of the Quran, which punishes those who
leave Islam.
He said that he was deprived of food and water
for several days and that his brother forced him
to drink urine as a punishment.
The lack of food and water affected him
severely, he recalled, adding that after as many
as 20 days, his father entered his cell, choked
him and threatened him with a knife unless he
renounced Jesus.

“I knew my dad well that he would kill me,” Mario
Joseph said.
“When I knew that it was my last moment… I
thought, ‘Jesus died, but He came back. If I
believe in Jesus and die, I too may get my life’.”
He said at this point he felt energized, pulled
his father’s hand down, and cried out Jesus’
name.
His father then fell down and was cut severely
by his own knife, causing him to foam at the
mouth, Mario Joseph said. When family members
took his father to the hospital, they forgot to
lock the room.
The young man then ran out and caught a taxi.
The driver was a Christian and helped get him
food and drink.
“That day, really I understood, my Jesus is alive
even now. When I called him for my need, he
saved me.”
Mario Joseph is now staying at a Catholic retreat
center in India, where he gives talks in various
languages.
He took the name “Mario,” a male version of
Mary in Italian. He also took the name Joseph for
Mary’s spouse.
“I ask (for) the intercession of Mary and I know
she is protecting me wherever I am,” he said.
In addition, the Catholic convert stressed the
importance of Church teaching, especially the
Eucharist.
“Jesus clearly said: If you eat my body, if you
drink my blood, you shall never die. And even if
you die, I will raise you’,” he commented,
paraphrasing the sixth chapter of the Gospel of
John.
Mario Joseph said he did not expect that he
would still be alive 18 years after his conversion.
He said people are still trying to kill him, and his
parents held a mock funeral ceremony for him to
signify that he was an outcast. On the mock
grave, they marked as his death date the date
of his baptism..
Although he has had no contact with his family
members, he prays for them and believes that
“God can touch them within a moment.”
Even if they never accept Christianity, he
explained, “I’m always saying ‘Jesus, please take
them to heaven’.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/former-imam-recounts-torture-after-christian-conversion-29404/
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by toxiflam: 9:36pm On Nov 29, 2014
In this age, I believe Freedom of religion is a fundamental human right.
The guy was convinced and further showed the basis for such. I see no reason why he should be earmarked for death
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by holatin(m): 9:40pm On Nov 29, 2014
and you expect me to believe this
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 9:40pm On Nov 29, 2014
If a Muslim leaves Islam,they kill him\her..


Muslims: y'al re in a cursed religion..so people who convert to Christianity get killed by their families abi?? Make thunder strike una angry

1 Like

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by thorpido(m): 9:47pm On Nov 29, 2014
May God keep you and continue to make you grow in His Word.
I don't know why there is so much hatred for those who convert to Christianity.
Is this Jesus not supposed to be a 'true prophet' of Allah?


I guess there is an untruth somewhere.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Religionsection(f): 9:48pm On Nov 29, 2014
holatin:
and you expect me to believe this
No, I don't.. Just ignore and swerve!

1 Like

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 10:02pm On Nov 29, 2014
Religionsection:

A former Muslim imam who converted to
Christianity believes that God protected him
from death threats and torture at the hands of
his family members.

“The holy Quran converted me to Christianity,”
said Mario Joseph, a former imam who shared the
story of his conversion and subsequent
persecution with the HM Television program
“Changing Tracks,” broadcast by the EUK Mamie
Foundation run by the Home of the Mother
religious community.

The English-language interview, first posted in
April 2014, now has more than 250,000 views on
YouTube.
Mario Joseph grew up in India in a Muslim family.
His mother dedicated him to God when he was a
baby. She had rejected doctors’ advice to abort
him when she had an infected womb during
pregnancy.

Enrolled at a young age in a Muslim Arabic
college in the southern Indian state of Kerala,
he studied philosophy and theology for 10 years.
He became an imam before he reached the age
of 18.
After someone asked him about who Jesus was,
Mari Joseph began to investigate Christianity.
Studying the Quran, he noticed that the name of
Jesus was mentioned more often than the name
of Islam’s prophet Mohammed and that Mary,
known in Arabic as Mariam, was the only woman
mentioned by name in the Quran. In Islam, Mary
is recognized as a perpetual virgin who was
conceived without sin.
It struck him to consider why the Quran would
“give more preference to Jesus” and why it says
“all these things about Mariam.”
The Quran describes Jesus as the “Word of God”
and the “Spirit of God.” It says Jesus healed the
sick and brought the dead to life and went to
heaven alive. It does not depict the Prophet
Mohammed doing any of this, he explained.
In addition, Mario Joseph came to understand
God as a father, something also taught by
Christianity.

“Whenever I think that the creator of the
universe is my dad, I have a kind of joy which I
cannot express,” he said in an interview.
With this motivation, he explained, “I decided to
accept Jesus.”

However, this conversion to Christianity triggered
a violent reaction from family members, he said,
recounting that his father found him at a
Catholic retreat center and beat him badly, to
the point that he lost consciousness. When he
awoke, he found himself naked in a small room at
his family’s home. His arms and legs were bound
and hot chili had been placed in his mouth and
his wounds.
Mario Joseph said that his father was obeying
the law of the Quran, which punishes those who
leave Islam.
He said that he was deprived of food and water
for several days and that his brother forced him
to drink urine as a punishment.
The lack of food and water affected him
severely, he recalled, adding that after as many
as 20 days, his father entered his cell, choked
him and threatened him with a knife unless he
renounced Jesus.

“I knew my dad well that he would kill me,” Mario
Joseph said.
“When I knew that it was my last moment… I
thought, ‘Jesus died, but He came back. If I
believe in Jesus and die, I too may get my life’.”
He said at this point he felt energized, pulled
his father’s hand down, and cried out Jesus’
name.
His father then fell down and was cut severely
by his own knife, causing him to foam at the
mouth, Mario Joseph said. When family members
took his father to the hospital, they forgot to
lock the room.
The young man then ran out and caught a taxi.
The driver was a Christian and helped get him
food and drink.
“That day, really I understood, my Jesus is alive
even now. When I called him for my need, he
saved me.”
Mario Joseph is now staying at a Catholic retreat
center in India, where he gives talks in various
languages.
He took the name “Mario,” a male version of
Mary in Italian. He also took the name Joseph for
Mary’s spouse.
“I ask (for) the intercession of Mary and I know
she is protecting me wherever I am,” he said.
In addition, the Catholic convert stressed the
importance of Church teaching, especially the
Eucharist.
“Jesus clearly said: If you eat my body, if you
drink my blood, you shall never die. And even if
you die, I will raise you’,” he commented,
paraphrasing the sixth chapter of the Gospel of
John.
Mario Joseph said he did not expect that he
would still be alive 18 years after his conversion.
He said people are still trying to kill him, and his
parents held a mock funeral ceremony for him to
signify that he was an outcast. On the mock
grave, they marked as his death date the date
of his baptism..
Although he has had no contact with his family
members, he prays for them and believes that
“God can touch them within a moment.”
Even if they never accept Christianity, he
explained, “I’m always saying ‘Jesus, please take
them to heaven’.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/former-imam-recounts-torture-after-christian-conversion-29404/

Lol. With all the experience you guys have, you still don't know how to make up a good conversion story. You still make the character think the way christians believe muslims think, not the way muslims really think.

I guess some may be decieved anyway, but try harder.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by asalimpo(m): 10:04pm On Nov 29, 2014
islam: religion of peace and bloodshed.

3 Likes

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Religionsection(f): 10:14pm On Nov 29, 2014
Abuamam:


Lol. With all the experience you guys have, you still don't know how to make up a good conversion story. You still make the character think the way christians believe muslims think, not the way muslims really think.

I guess some may be decieved anyway, but try harder.

You just reason like an illiterate!
Can't you see the source?
You can go to the source and click reply and post this rubbish there..
Always think before jumping to comment..

3 Likes

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by holatin(m): 11:17pm On Nov 29, 2014
Religionsection:

No, I don't.. Just ignore and swerve!
k Grandma
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by hallmar08(m): 11:48pm On Nov 29, 2014
No wonder that the headquarters of Muslims saudi arabia carries in her national flag 'a sword'. From my own research this is the only country with such logo. If you have to reside in the Muslim nation u have to be a Muslim otherwise you'll sleep with one eye opened, some countries will not even grant your visa, boko haram, isis, nagreb, al-quaida, al-shabab, et al, going on killing spree in the name of religion people still saying Islam is a religion of peace!

2 Likes

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 7:44am On Nov 30, 2014
Religionsection:


You just reason like an illiterate!
Can't you see the source?
You can go to the source and click reply and post this rubbish there..
Always think before jumping to comment..

So anything that has a website attached is automatically true? People wrote that article, you know. You reposted the article on a public forum, you should have prepared for criticism.


hallmar08:
No wonder that the headquarters of Muslims saudi arabia carries in her national flag 'a sword'. From my own research this is the only country with such logo. If you have to reside in the Muslim nation u have to be a Muslim otherwise you'll sleep with one eye opened, some countries will not even grant your visa, boko haram, isis, nagreb, al-quaida, al-shabab, et al, going on killing spree in the name of religion people still saying Islam is a religion of peace!

CORRECTIONS

1. Saudi Arabia is not the headquarters of Islam. Muslims have no headquarters. Saudi Arabia is only the location where the muslim Qibla is sited, and where muslims go for hajj.

2. No country witholds its visa on the basis of religion. They withold visas mostly when an applicant comes from a country which may have a bad reputation for drugs, prostitution, 419 and other vices, and the applicant can show no tangible reason for applying for a visa, no visible source of income; and often makes multiple false claims on his visa application.

3. There could be up to 3 million non muslim foreign workers in Saudi Arabia (none of which was forcefully dragged to Saudi Arabia from his/her country). They make their money and go back. Saudi Arabia still remains one of the destinations of choice for foreign workers. No swords are used on them.


4. Here are some flags that have weapons:

Swaziland, Kenya, American Samoa... spears.
Angola... Machete.
Barbados... trident.
Belize, Haiti... axes.
Guatemala, Mozambique... guns/rifles.
Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Oman... swords/sabres.

I hope this helps your 'research'.

5. Islam is a religion that promotes peace but not at the expense of allowing oneself to be oppressed. Islam prescribes peace when peace is offerred. It permits self-defence as a practical code of conduct.

6. ISIS, AlQaeda, the Taliban etc were mostly created and trained by the western governments to create havoc in Arab countries, or fight Russia for them. Check their histories. Both Bin Laden and alBaghdadi; among others; were trained by the US, then went out of control.

There is a difference between fighting for a just cause in Islam, and using the name of Islam to fight for no just cause.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by dolphinheart(m): 12:52pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


So anything that has a website attached is automatically true? People wrote that article, you know. You reposted the article on a public forum, you should have prepared for criticism.




CORRECTIONS

1. Saudi Arabia is not the headquarters of Islam. Muslims have no headquarters. Saudi Arabia is only the location where the muslim Qibla is sited, and where muslims go for hajj.

2. No country witholds its visa on the basis of religion. They withold visas mostly when an applicant comes from a country which may have a bad reputation for drugs, prostitution, 419 and other vices, and the applicant can show no tangible reason for applying for a visa, no visible source of income; and often makes multiple false claims on his visa application.

3. There could be up to 3 million non muslim foreign workers in Saudi Arabia (none of which was forcefully dragged to Saudi Arabia from his/her country). They make their money and go back. Saudi Arabia still remains one of the destinations of choice for foreign workers. No swords are used on them.


4. Here are some flags that have weapons:

Swaziland, Kenya, American Samoa... spears.
Angola... Machete.
Barbados... trident.
Belize, Haiti... axes.
Guatemala, Mozambique... guns/rifles.
Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Oman... swords/sabres.

I hope this helps your 'research'.

5. Islam is a religion that promotes peace but not at the expense of allowing oneself to be oppressed. Islam prescribes peace when peace is offerred. It permits self-defence as a practical code of conduct.

6. ISIS, AlQaeda, the Taliban etc were mostly created and trained by the western governments to create havoc in Arab countries, or fight Russia for them. Check their histories. Both Bin Laden and alBaghdadi; among others; were trained by the US, then went out of control.

There is a difference between fighting for a just cause in Islam, and using the name of Islam to fight for no just cause.

Questions
1) can I go to saudi Arabia if inserted to my passport or other documents are titles such as bishop or pastor? Will I be giving visa if the saudi authority know I'm a Christian reliflgious leader?

2)can I publicly read my bible in saudi Arabia?

3) can non Muslims gather to pratise their religion in saudi Arabia?
4) what is the punishment for leaving Islam in saudi Arabia?

5)what is oppression in islam

1 Like

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 3:48pm On Nov 30, 2014
dolphinheart:


Questions
1) can I go to saudi Arabia if inserted to my passport or other documents are titles such as bishop or pastor? Will I be giving visa if the saudi authority know I'm a Christian reliflgious leader?

2)can I publicly read my bible in saudi Arabia?

3) can non Muslims gather to pratise their religion in saudi Arabia?
4) what is the punishment for leaving Islam in saudi Arabia?

5)what is oppression in islam

1. If you have something tangible to do there, you will be given a visa. A number of consultant physicians and other professionals there presently and previously, that I am acquainted with, are pastors. I do not know whether the title is included in their passport. Your title is not a criteria. You will not be given a visa if your activities are not defined. That goes for any country.

2. No, you cannot. The authorities do not want the kind of chaos subsisting in countries where public 'reading of the Bible' is allowed; eg public transport, street corner type of Bible reading/ preaching.

3. Yes they can. The authorities will not intrude into private homes to check what or how you worship. However, christian groups especially, are never content to worship privately. They always want to mislead muslims. The authorities do not want every self-appointed 'pastor' opening a home 'church' for tithe collection. Fraud is taken seriously in the Shari'a.
Rule of thumb; if the authorities get to know that non muslims are gathering to conduct rituals, the implication is that a lot of people have been invited. Secrecy is the key. Do not use loudspeakers and do not invite muslims and you will not be punished.

4. The punishment for leaving Islam is defined under the Shari'a as the death sentence. This however is not applicable unless you publicly seek fame for leaving Islam with intention to mislead others, eg brag on western media about how you know you are going to be killed for leaving Islam, then using your newly found status (likely a non entity before your conversion) to give public presentations at the UN and every evangelical christian gathering in the US, abusing Islam. What you do in your own home is your business, and you will not be pursued to assess whether you go to the mosque or not.

5. Oppression in Islam; whereby you have the right to defend yourself using violent means; include loss of life or property, or violent persecution for holding a belief. It is noteworthy that revenge is not acceptable as justification for violence in Islam. Neither is conversion of non muslims to Islam, permissible under the Shari'a.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by dolphinheart(m): 4:28pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


1. If you have something tangible to do there, you will be given a visa. A number of consultant physicians and other professionals there presently and previously, that I am acquainted with, are pastors. I do not know whether the title is included in their passport. Your title is not a criteria. You will not be given a visa if your activities are not defined. That goes for any country.

2. No, you cannot. The authorities do not want the kind of chaos subsisting in countries where public 'reading of the Bible' is allowed; eg public transport, street corner type of Bible reading/ preaching.

3. Yes they can. The authorities will not intrude into private homes to check what or how you worship. However, christian groups especially, are never content to worship privately. They always want to mislead muslims. The authorities do not want every self-appointed 'pastor' opening a home 'church' for tithe collection. Fraud is taken seriously in the Shari'a.
Rule of thumb; if the authorities get to know that non muslims are gathering to conduct rituals, the implication is that a lot of people have been invited. Secrecy is the key. Do not use loudspeakers and do not invite muslims and you will not be punished.

4. The punishment for leaving Islam is defined under the Shari'a as the death sentence. This however is not applicable unless you publicly seek fame for leaving Islam with intention to mislead others, eg brag on western media about how you know you are going to be killed for leaving Islam, then using your newly found status (likely a non entity before your conversion) to give public presentations at the UN and every evangelical christian gathering in the US, abusing Islam. What you do in your own home is your business, and you will not be pursued to assess whether you go to the mosque or not.

5. Oppression in Islam; whereby you have the right to defend yourself using violent means; include loss of life or property, or violent persecution for holding a belief. It is noteworthy that revenge is not acceptable as justification for violence in Islam. Neither is conversion of non muslims to Islam, permissible under the Shari'a.

1 can a preacher be allowed to come and talk to his fellow brethren in saudi Arabia, after telling immigration that he wants to come and personaly talk about the bible to people of similar faith?


2) the public reading I was refering too is: reading your bible openly in a park or bus but not making any sound or reading it out loud , but just reading to urself like reading a novel . Is that allowed in saudi Arabia?

3) in gathering to worship, I mean renting a space, not inviting Muslims and getting together to perform worship to their god before going to private homes. Tithes are not collected. Loudspeakers are not used. Can dat be allowed in saudi Arabia ?

4)what will happen to a Muslim who attends Christian gatherings in private homes,and when asked, tells anyone who asks that he is no longer a Muslim in saudi Arabia. he does not preach , but discuss about the bible with other non Muslims

5) do Muslims count it as oppression if they are not allowed to carry their Koran during a visit to a country?
Do Muslims count it as oppression when they are not allowed to fully pratice their religion in the country they reside and work in ?
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Zeus777: 4:30pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


1. If you have something tangible to do there, you will be given a visa. A number of consultant physicians and other professionals there presently and previously, that I am acquainted with, are pastors. I do not know whether the title is included in their passport. Your title is not a criteria. You will not be given a visa if your activities are not defined. That goes for any country.

2. No, you cannot. The authorities do not want the kind of chaos subsisting in countries where public 'reading of the Bible' is allowed; eg public transport, street corner type of Bible reading/ preaching.

3. Yes they can. The authorities will not intrude into private homes to check what or how you worship. However, christian groups especially, are never content to worship privately. They always want to mislead muslims. The authorities do not want every self-appointed 'pastor' opening a home 'church' for tithe collection. Fraud is taken seriously in the Shari'a.
Rule of thumb; if the authorities get to know that non muslims are gathering to conduct rituals, the implication is that a lot of people have been invited. Secrecy is the key. Do not use loudspeakers and do not invite muslims and you will not be punished.

4. The punishment for leaving Islam is defined under the Shari'a as the death sentence. This however is not applicable unless you publicly seek fame for leaving Islam with intention to mislead others, eg brag on western media about how you know you are going to be killed for leaving Islam, then using your newly found status (likely a non entity before your conversion) to give public presentations at the UN and every evangelical christian gathering in the US, abusing Islam. What you do in your own home is your business, and you will not be pursued to assess whether you go to the mosque or not.

5. Oppression in Islam; whereby you have the right to defend yourself using violent means; include loss of life or property, or violent persecution for holding a belief. It is noteworthy that revenge is not acceptable as justification for violence in Islam. Neither is conversion of non muslims to Islam, permissible under the Shari'a.
where in the Quran or the Hadith was it specified that there should b other conditions b4 u are allowed to kill an apostate? Were the yazidis seekin ur so called western attention or fame b4 they where slaughtered in Iraq Go and tell that hogwash list u typed up there to there families
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 4:44pm On Nov 30, 2014
Zeus777:
where in the Quran or the Hadith was it specified that there should b other conditions b4 u are allowed to kill an apostate? Were the yazidis seekin ur so called western attention or fame b4 they where slaughtered in Iraq Go and tell that hogwash list u typed up there to there families

If an apostate does not broadcast his apostasy, he will not be known as an apostate, so cannot be punished.

The Yazidis are not apostates. Their religion is a form of devil worship. The ones alive today were never muslims; though their ancestors might have been; and Islam is not hereditary. In any case, ISIS have their own way of justice, strange to the true Islamic Shari'a. They should not be used as an example of what Islam teaches, any more than Boko Haram.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Zeus777: 5:05pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


If an apostate does not broadcast his apostasy, he will not be known as an apostate, so cannot be punished.

The Yazidis are not apostates. Their religion is a form of devil worship. The ones alive today were never muslims; though their ancestors might have been; and Islam is not hereditary. In any case, ISIS have their own way of justice, strange to the true Islamic Shari'a. They should not be used as an example of what Islam teaches, any more than Boko Haram.
wether they worship the devil or sango shouldn't be u guys business. Do u understand that? Islam without doubt has a lot of issues and violent is inherent within it. Stop tryin to rationalize religion here.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 5:23pm On Nov 30, 2014
Zeus777:
wether they worship the devil or sango shouldn't be u guys business. Do u understand that? Islam without doubt has a lot of issues and violent is inherent within it. Stop tryin to rationalize religion here.

Obviously you have anger issues. Go to Iraq and tell ISIS to leave the Yazidis alone if you feel so strongly about it. I was asked about apostasy, and I pointed out that an apostate is a former muslim; which excludes the Yazidis. What they worship is their headache.

You are of course, entitled to your opinion about Islam, but what led ME to Islam was the wonderful rationality inherent in its teachings. If I see a misconception about Islam, I point out the correct position. What you choose to do with the information does not worry me in the least.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by dolphinheart(m): 5:38pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


Obviously you have anger issues. Go to Iraq and tell ISIS to leave the Yazidis alone if you feel so strongly about it. I was asked about apostasy, and I pointed out that an apostate is a former muslim; which excludes the Yazidis. What they worship is their headache.

You are of course, entitled to your opinion about Islam, but what led ME to Islam was the wonderful rationality inherent in its teachings. If I see a misconception about Islam, I point out the correct position. What you choose to do with the information does not worry me in the least.

Pls answer my Questions
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by hallmar08(m): 6:08pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


So anything that has a website attached is automatically true? People wrote that article, you know. You reposted the article on a public forum, you should have prepared for criticism.




CORRECTIONS
Noted but still doesn't change the fact that most Moslems are wicked, I lived n work in their midst I know how much they oppressed n sideline non-moslems.

1. Saudi Arabia is not the headquarters of Islam. Muslims have no headquarters. Saudi Arabia is only the location where the muslim Qibla is sited, and where muslims go for hajj.

2. No country witholds its visa on the basis of religion. They withold visas mostly when an applicant comes from a country which may have a bad reputation for drugs, prostitution, 419 and other vices, and the applicant can show no tangible reason for applying for a visa, no visible source of income; and often makes multiple false claims on his visa application.

3. There could be up to 3 million non muslim foreign workers in Saudi Arabia (none of which was forcefully dragged to Saudi Arabia from his/her country). They make their money and go back. Saudi Arabia still remains one of the destinations of choice for foreign workers. No swords are used on them.


4. Here are some flags that have weapons:

Swaziland, Kenya, American Samoa... spears.
Angola... Machete.
Barbados... trident.
Belize, Haiti... axes.
Guatemala, Mozambique... guns/rifles.
Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Oman... swords/sabres.

I hope this helps your 'research'.

5. Islam is a religion that promotes peace but not at the expense of allowing oneself to be oppressed. Islam prescribes peace when peace is offerred. It permits self-defence as a practical code of conduct.

6. ISIS, AlQaeda, the Taliban etc were mostly created and trained by the western governments to create havoc in Arab countries, or fight Russia for them. Check their histories. Both Bin Laden and alBaghdadi; among others; were trained by the US, then went out of control.

There is a difference between fighting for a just cause in Islam, and using the name of Islam to fight for no just cause.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Zeus777: 7:42pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


Obviously you have anger issues. Go to Iraq and tell ISIS to leave the Yazidis alone if you feel so strongly about it. I was asked about apostasy, and I pointed out that an apostate is a former muslim; which excludes the Yazidis. What they worship is their headache.

You are of course, entitled to your opinion about Islam, but what led ME to Islam was the wonderful rationality inherent in its teachings. If I see a misconception about Islam, I point out the correct position. What you choose to do with the information does not worry me in the least.
friend, I know who d yazidis are . Have been to 12 countries so far including Iraq . I had to use them as a very good example cos they seem to share thesame cultural believes wt Muslims ; the only diference bein that they do not consider ur so called villain character in the god creation a jinn but rather an honourable angel that didn't bow to human because god had initially ordered him never to bow to any1 in that ur fictitious creation story shared by u and ur Xtian counterpart. So technically they could b likened to an apostate. That is y d religion of "peace" followers continue up to this day to kill them. ... yazidis are beautiful and intelligent people but impoverished because they unfortunately Hv found themselves dwelling in majority Muslim nations that seeks to kill in "peace" others that don't share their own views
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Zeus777: 8:04pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


Obviously you have anger issues. Go to Iraq and tell ISIS to leave the Yazidis alone if you feel so strongly about it. I was asked about apostasy, and I pointed out that an apostate is a former muslim; which excludes the Yazidis. What they worship is their headache.

You are of course, entitled to your opinion about Islam, but what led ME to Islam was the wonderful rationality inherent in its teachings. If I see a misconception about Islam, I point out the correct position. What you choose to do with the information does not worry me in the least.
tell me the rationality inherent in the teaching of Islam .... And pls do not give me that "no compulsion in religion poo" except Ofcourse u wanna explain what abrogation in Islam means
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Zeus777: 8:18pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


Obviously you have anger issues. Go to Iraq and tell ISIS to leave the Yazidis alone if you feel so strongly about it. I was asked about apostasy, and I pointed out that an apostate is a former muslim; which excludes the Yazidis. What they worship is their headache.

You are of course, entitled to your opinion about Islam, but what led ME to Islam was the wonderful rationality inherent in its teachings. If I see a misconception about Islam, I point out the correct position. What you choose to do with the information does not worry me in the least.
if u feel I have got anger issues wt religion then u my friend may not be far from the truth. And one of the reasons to b sincere wt u is because am a surgeon . Am a member of both the west african and national college of surgeon . Am also a fellow of the royal college of surgeon. I derive my day to day opium from saving just one life .(sometimes it takes me hours to conclude a surgical procedure) . But then u get home and see religiously motivated mad men beheading dozens within 10minuites all in a bid to emulate their prophets
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 8:24pm On Nov 30, 2014
dolphinheart:


1 can a preacher be allowed to come and talk to his fellow brethren in saudi Arabia, after telling immigration that he wants to come and personaly talk about the bible to people of similar faith?


2) the public reading I was refering too is: reading your bible openly in a park or bus but not making any sound or reading it out loud , but just reading to urself like reading a novel . Is that allowed in saudi Arabia?

3) in gathering to worship, I mean renting a space, not inviting Muslims and getting together to perform worship to their god before going to private homes. Tithes are not collected. Loudspeakers are not used. Can dat be allowed in saudi Arabia ?

4)what will happen to a Muslim who attends Christian gatherings in private homes,and when asked, tells anyone who asks that he is no longer a Muslim in saudi Arabia. he does not preach , but discuss about the bible with other non Muslims

5) do Muslims count it as oppression if they are not allowed to carry their Koran during a visit to a country?
Do Muslims count it as oppression when they are not allowed to fully pratice their religion in the country they reside and work in ?

1) No. You are trying to nitpick. They cannot follow the man to ascertain who he talks to and who he does not talk to. People of similar faith to him are free to leave Saudi Arabia if they feel restricted in their worship and want to speak to spiritual leaders. Of course, if they consider money more important than their faith, then it is not the fault of Saudis.

2) No again, and for the same reasons as above. You see, Christians really believe that they are doing non Christians a favour by evangelising and would go to any length to create disorder in the muslim society. Prevention is better than cure.

3) If the authorities do not know about it, they cannot stop it. If the authorities do know about it, then it has been broadcast by invitations etc. This is not allowed.

4) He is an apostate. Obviously he is evangelising and trying to corrupt muslims. There should be fora for muslim/ non muslim debate. Christians do air misconceptions about Islam in order to convert muslims, and ignorant muslims should be protected from such falsehood.

5) No they do not. In fact, the prophet (saw) discouraged us from taking the Qur'an into non friendly territory. Migrating to such areas by muslims is only permitted in case of a necessity.
Again they do not count it as oppression if they are prevented from doing so in a foreign land, where furthermore, they are immigrants and not citizens, and knew the country's rules before travelling there. However, it is in muslim territory where muslims are the majority, for example if they ban mosques in, say, Egypt.
To shed more light on this, muslim women have been banned from wearing the niqab; and even hijab; in certain locations in Europe. Many Islamic books are banned in certain parts of Russian territories. Germany is proposing an official translation of the Qur'an... etc. No muslim scholar or group suggested that muslims take up arms in any of these cases.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 8:55pm On Nov 30, 2014
Zeus777:
if u feel I have got anger issues wt religion then u my friend may not be far from the truth. And one of the reasons to b sincere wt u is because am a surgeon . Am a member of both the west african and national college of surgeon . Am also a fellow of the royal college of surgeon. I derive my day to day opium from saving just one life .(sometimes it takes me hours to conclude a surgical procedure) . But then u get home and see religiously motivated mad men beheading dozens within 10minuites all in a bid to "emulate" their prophets

If you took your time to study their own stated reasons behind the atrocities they commit, then you would know that religion is the furthest thing from their minds. Bin Laden stated repeatedly and continuously that the US foreign policy was behind his hatred for them, especially their support for Israeli war crimes and illegal land grabbing- as certified by the UN. BH pointed to the extra judicial killing of their members as their cause before it exploded into a large scale murderous venture. ISIS grew on the back of a western backed rebellion against Assad, and morphed into another murderous rampage when the US-installed Shi'a government decided to persecute Sunnis, starting with their Vice President, no less. It is noteworthy that alQaeda & co. had zero presence in Iraq, Libya, Syria etc before the US government decided to meddle, nor did they exist before the US proxy war in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. So, unless you believe that the US set them up to promote Islam, all these groups have nothing to do with Islam. Their claims of jihad are only for the purpose of attracting recruits from the ignorant muslims, who exist only because muslim scholars and schools are prevented from educating the muslim youth.
Let me tell you, we hate these atrocities more than you, because they malign our religion, destroy our social structures and decieve our youth into dying for foolish causes. That is why you find countries like Saudi Arabia at the forefront in the war against ISIS and their likes. However, certain powers that be have gained control over these misguided youth, and until they are exposed, you are going to see more of these atrocities on your news channel, regretably.

Let me ask you; how long have non muslims... let us take Yazidis as example, lived in muslim lands? or Christian copts in Egypt or Jews in Palestine? If Islam preaches that they were to be converted or killed, how did they survive as a minority all these centuries? Or where they bad muslims ruling them? How objective is it to use 20years of alQaeda & co. to judge 1500 years of muslim rule?
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by dolphinheart(m): 9:46pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


1) No. You are trying to nitpick. They cannot follow the man to ascertain who he talks to and who he does not talk to. People of similar faith to him are free to leave Saudi Arabia if they feel restricted in their worship and want to speak to spiritual leaders. Of course, if they consider money more important than their faith, then it is not the fault of Saudis.

2) No again, and for the same reasons as above. You see, Christians really believe that they are doing non Christians a favour by evangelising and would go to any length to create disorder in the muslim society. Prevention is better than cure.

3) If the authorities do not know about it, they cannot stop it. If the authorities do know about it, then it has been broadcast by invitations etc. This is not allowed.

4) He is an apostate. Obviously he is evangelising and trying to corrupt muslims. There should be fora for muslim/ non muslim debate. Christians do air misconceptions about Islam in order to convert muslims, and ignorant muslims should be protected from such falsehood.

5) No they do not. In fact, the prophet (saw) discouraged us from taking the Qur'an into non friendly territory. Migrating to such areas by muslims is only permitted in case of a necessity.
Again they do not count it as oppression if they are prevented from doing so in a foreign land, where furthermore, they are immigrants and not citizens, and knew the country's rules before travelling there. However, it is in muslim territory where muslims are the majority, for example if they ban mosques in, say, Egypt.
To shed more light on this, muslim women have been banned from wearing the niqab; and even hijab; in certain locations in Europe. Many Islamic books are banned in certain parts of Russian territories. Germany is proposing an official translation of the Qur'an... etc. No muslim scholar or group suggested that muslims take up arms in any of these cases.

1)I'm not trying anything , just asking questions based on specific scenarios, are u saying he will not be allowed in, even if he stated where he will be holding the private meetings and with whom he will be holding them? We do have the police na, if someone does anything contrary to the law , he will be arrested na.


2) they have already prevented Christians from evangelizing, what are they preventing by not allowing me to sit alone in a park , or when travelling in a bus, to bring out My bible and read silently.

3)what do u mean by "broadcast by invitation"
What I'm asking is if a group of people or one person go to the authorities and ask for permision to meet at a location (after all the participants have privately agreed to meet among themseves ), will the saudi authority allow such gatherings?

4)What will happen to someone in saudi Arabia , who being a Muslim initialy , privately converts to Christianity, because he does not go the mosque again, the people ask him y and he tells them he does not believe in islam and its teaching again but now believe in jesus?

5) y re Muslims in the UK and lagos fighting over the use of hijab?
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Zeus777: 11:44pm On Nov 30, 2014
Abuamam:


If you took your time to study their own stated reasons behind the atrocities they commit, then you would know that religion is the furthest thing from their minds. Bin Laden stated repeatedly and continuously that the US foreign policy was behind his hatred for them, especially their support for Israeli war crimes and illegal land grabbing- as certified by the UN. BH pointed to the extra judicial killing of their members as their cause before it exploded into a large scale murderous venture. ISIS grew on the back of a western backed rebellion against Assad, and morphed into another murderous rampage when the US-installed Shi'a government decided to persecute Sunnis, starting with their Vice President, no less. It is noteworthy that alQaeda & co. had zero presence in Iraq, Libya, Syria etc before the US government decided to meddle, nor did they exist before the US proxy war in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. So, unless you believe that the US set them up to promote Islam, all these groups have nothing to do with Islam. Their claims of jihad are only for the purpose of attracting recruits from the ignorant muslims, who exist only because muslim scholars and schools are prevented from educating the muslim youth.
Let me tell you, we hate these atrocities more than you, because they malign our religion, destroy our social structures and decieve our youth into dying for foolish causes. That is why you find countries like Saudi Arabia at the forefront in the war against ISIS and their likes. However, certain powers that be have gained control over these misguided youth, and until they are exposed, you are going to see more of these atrocities on your news channel, regretably.

Let me ask you; how long have non muslims... let us take Yazidis as example, lived in muslim lands? or Christian copts in Egypt or Jews in Palestine? If Islam preaches that they were to be converted or killed, how did they survive as a minority all these centuries? Or where they bad muslims ruling them? How objective is it to use 20years of alQaeda & co. to judge 1500 years of muslim rule?
its always about the west and Isreal . I see u also making a case for even boko haram. I rest my case friend i shall reply u no more. Thank u
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by asalimpo(m): 12:28am On Dec 01, 2014
Abuamam:


1) No. You are trying to nitpick. They cannot follow the man to ascertain who he talks to and who he does not talk to. People of similar faith to him are free to leave Saudi Arabia if they feel restricted in their worship and want to speak to spiritual leaders. Of course, if they consider money more important than their faith, then it is not the fault of Saudis.

2) No again, and for the same reasons as above. You see, Christians really believe that they are doing non Christians a favour by evangelising and would go to any length to create disorder in the muslim society. Prevention is better than cure.

3) If the authorities do not know about it, they cannot stop it. If the authorities do know about it, then it has been broadcast by invitations etc. This is not allowed.

4) He is an apostate. Obviously he is evangelising and trying to corrupt muslims. There should be fora for muslim/ non muslim debate. Christians do air misconceptions about Islam in order to convert muslims, and ignorant muslims should be protected from such falsehood.

5) No they do not. In fact, the prophet (saw) discouraged us from taking the Qur'an into non friendly territory. Migrating to such areas by muslims is only permitted in case of a necessity.
Again they do not count it as oppression if they are prevented from doing so in a foreign land, where furthermore, they are immigrants and not citizens, and knew the country's rules before travelling there. However, it is in muslim territory where muslims are the majority, for example if they ban mosques in, say, Egypt.
To shed more light on this, muslim women have been banned from wearing the niqab; and even hijab; in certain locations in Europe. Many Islamic books are banned in certain parts of Russian territories. Germany is proposing an official translation of the Qur'an... etc. No muslim scholar or group suggested that muslims take up arms in any of these cases.

mister, ur islam is a hegemonic quagmire.
Christians disrupt nothing.
They evangelize,tell you about Christ you make your choice,exercise your free will,
and choose or reject the invitation to salvation.
There's nothing different than a bank soliciting clients to come open accounts with them.
How can simple basic proselytizing be labelled "misleading" or dissenting?

Fact, is this is d nature of islam.
An insecure and intolerant religion.
Even on this forum, tht same spirit , makes your type lock up their forum . Posters have to convert and accept islams tenet to post. Begone free speech.
Probably, Seun let them hav their way after secret threats must hav been issued to him.


Killing some1 for leavg a religion of his own free will!
This shows many ppl ar still in islam in bondage out of fear of death.

Islam is a religion of bondage.
It seeks to lock its adherents in and not let them out.
How can this b liberating. Islam is simply bondage period.

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Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by Nobody: 8:46am On Dec 01, 2014
Zeus777:
its always about the west and Isreal . I see u also making a case for even boko haram. I rest my case friend i shall reply u no more. Thank u

I am simply pointing out that their own stated objectives never include fighting for Islam. I am not making a case for them, neither does Islamic law in any way justify their methods; if anything, we feel the effects of their atrocities even mo4e than you do, and many of our scholars have lost their lives opposing them. The point is they have other reasons that have nothing to do with Islam, until they want to decieve the muslim youth into their ranks.

I respect your desire not to respond, but I wonder if your physician's outrage at unnecessary civilian deaths extends to the thousands of innocent victims of drone strikes on wedding parties and carpet bombing of an overcrowded open air prison, deliberately targetting children, of whom over 700 were killed in 3 weeks. Or whether you just roll your eyes at 'Israel and the west...' narrative. Perhaps you would then understand that we who try to counter the false teachings of the extremists can never succeed while the youth keep seeing the above events being ignored by the world's intellectuals.
Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by dolphinheart(m): 1:04pm On Dec 01, 2014
Abuamam:


I am simply pointing out that their own stated objectives never include fighting for Islam. I am not making a case for them, neither does Islamic law in any way justify their methods; if anything, we feel the effects of their atrocities even mo4e than you do, and many of our scholars have lost their lives opposing them. The point is they have other reasons that have nothing to do with Islam, until they want to decieve the muslim youth into their ranks.

I respect your desire not to respond, but I wonder if your physician's outrage at unnecessary civilian deaths extends to the thousands of innocent victims of drone strikes on wedding parties and carpet bombing of an overcrowded open air prison, deliberately targetting children, of whom over 700 were killed in 3 weeks. Or whether you just roll your eyes at 'Israel and the west...' narrative. Perhaps you would then understand that we who try to counter the false teachings of the extremists can never succeed while the youth keep seeing the above events being ignored by the world's intellectuals.

Bro u have not answered my questions, pls do.

On the issue of what's happening in the middle east, I do believe most of these wahala started with the Arabs and the religion they carry along with them .
If they had not decided to conquer Iran and Iraq based on some flimsy excuse that the conquered region was planning to attack first , the world would not have had the opportunity of instigating war between two factions of the same religion .
If they had not invaded Israel , the isrealites wunt be fighting for there survival today.

They say the isrealis commit war crimes. As if the other countries around them did not try to do the same thing to them. ( I'm not saying the killings by the isrealis is right, I do hate the atrocities they commited, but its the nuetrals that can complain and not the people and religion who have failed in their ambition in eliminating isrealites.)
If you are peaceable, others cannot cause war between you . Fighters in Syria are mostly from same region , same wider tribe
Same language , same religion , but they are fighting themselves cus they are different sects of same religion.
Most of the other countries are fighting themselves cus they want to enshrine there own personal form of the religion.

In saudi Arabia , there citezins who are of different sect (the shias) are not allowed into the military, civil service and govt owned oil companies (and these oil the country export is from shia citezens lands) .
They are aalways cheated as monority, what do you think will happen if they are giving arms by unfriendly countries to fight the government. A good example of these is what is happening I bahrain.


The religion in itself, for it to be fully effective , must be state run, the shatia cannot become effective if its not effected by the state, hence the religions need and drive to control the state in which they reside.


Last note , I personaly do believe that the terrorist are just following a trend set by their predicessors during the conquests of islam.

1 Like

Re: Former Imam: God Saved Me From Torture After Christian Conversion by true2god: 7:28pm On Dec 01, 2014
dolphinheart:


Questions
1) can I go to saudi Arabia if inserted to my passport or other documents are titles such as bishop or pastor? Will I be giving visa if the saudi authority know I'm a Christian reliflgious leader?

2)can I publicly read my bible in saudi Arabia?

3) can non Muslims gather to pratise their religion in saudi Arabia?
4) what is the punishment for leaving Islam in saudi Arabia?

5)what is oppression in islam
Dont mind Abuaman, he is an al-taqiyya artist.

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