Trinity is explained as the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God), that these three are also co-equal.

If these three beings are co-equal, who created who? Did Jesus create God or vice versa. If God created Jesus, automatically, that means God is greater, that contradicts the co-equality.

If the holy spirit is a person, how could it poured on people and they get filled with someone. Can a being with a personality be poured on someone.

If the holy spirit is a being, could it be more powerful than God the Father, since all miracles works are actually product of the holy spirit?

Jesus categorically stated that regarding the time of the end no one knows the day or hour only almighty God. If they were equal, y would one know something and the other does not?

Can God die? If u say he cannot, how do we explain that Jesus was dead three days, he even commited his life to his father before he drew his last breath, knowing God almighty would restore him back to life.

By the way if trinity is so true and dundamental to christian life why is it that, that word NEVER occurs in the bible?


If these questions can`t be resolved then surely, trinity is the biggest contradition in Christianity.

The easiest way to look at the Trinity is to look at H2O.
It can be a liquid when it is water.
It can be a solid when it is ice.
It can be a vapour when it is steam.

All are the same thing though.

None is greater than the other although, all can move to each other's form. Water can become Ice, Ice can become Steam. They're all co-equal.

As for what the Trinity is? Think of it this way:
Without the Father, there would be no Son. Without the Son, there would be no Spirit. Without the Spirit, there would be no Father. There couldn't be as they're all the same thing.
The Father created the Son who shares the Spirit of the Father. They're interlinked and inseperable.

@bastage

God was not created. Jesus was created by God. That makes God greater than Jesus. My father gave me life, that automatically makes him greater than me. He has more knowledge, and i report to him. God does not report to Jesus.

If Jesus and God were the same, why did Jesus pray to God in heaven to "let this cup pass over me" shortly before he was arrested. How come Jesus did not know when the end will come except the Father in heaven. If they are the same then they should have equal knowledge?

Bastage, pls Shoot!

You're assuming Jesus was created.
As a part of God one could argue that Jesus was there in the beginning and has always been there.

Sure, one could argue that the physical Jesus was only created 2000 odd years ago, but the spiritual Jesus is not constrained to such a time limit.

I'm not a Bible literalist nor a fundamentalist by the way. I'm merely giving you the line as it can be looked at.

As for the quotes you give? They're arguable. With the "Let this cup pass over me" statement, it could be looked at as talking to one's self. And who doesn't do that in times of strife? It's also possible that there was a degree of separation between the physical Jesus and the spiritual Jesus/Godhead. As I've said, these are just ways it can be looked at independently.

Regarding the statement that only God knows the end. Again we've got something that can be speculated on. He could have been saying "Yeah. God (and therefore I) know the end". Or again there could have been that degree of physical/spiritual separation.

My own personal take on it is that the latter is merely a throwaway statement made just to stress the power of God.

If they are the same then they should have equal knowledge?

Not necessarily. Take a look at the human brain. You have a right hemisphere and a left hemisphere. Both are in control of different things and the right isn't always aware of what the left's up to. Both make up the brain as a whole though and work together.
Or take a look at the sea and the sand. Apart, they are an expanse of water and a desert. Put them together though and you have a beach. It's not a case of equality. It's a case of complimenting and creating a whole.

If these three beings are co-equal, who created who? Did Jesus create God or vice versa. If God created Jesus, automatically, that means God is greater, that contradicts the co-equality

First of all looking at your repsonse to bastage, you are not here to ask questions but to give ridicule. You can at least try to hide it. Why ask questions if you've already made up your mind as to what the answer is.

Jesus is not created but begotten, he became a creation, but he himself is not created.

You forget one very impotant fact about Jesus, that he is the Word of God. In saying so this means that Jesus is a part of God, however the Word does not operate until actually spoken.  Look at it this way. You are not separate from your word and your word is you, if your word is you how can you be unequal to yourself?
However, your word doesn't actually operate until you decide to open your mouth and speak it.
The difference between your word and God's Word is that God's Word took human flesh and yours is incapable of taking human flesh.

If the holy spirit is a person, how could it poured on people and they get filled with someone. Can a being with a personality be poured on someone.

The Holy Spirit is exactly what it is, a Spirit and is not bound to time and space as we are. You are looking at a person as just a flesh, when in fact the person is flesh and spirit (humans). But if the flesh dies the person is still there because the spirit is still there, so basically the flesh is very reliant on the spirit

If the holy spirit is a being, could it be more powerful than God the Father, since all miracles works are actually product of the holy spirit?

The Spirit is sent by the Father.

Jesus categorically stated that regarding the time of the end no one knows the day or hour only almighty God. If they were equal, y would one know something and the other does not?

Can God die? If u say he cannot, how do we explain that Jesus was dead three days, he even commited his life to his father before he drew his last breath, knowing God almighty would restore him back to life.

By the way if trinity is so true and dundamental to christian life why is it that, that word NEVER occurs in the bible?


If these questions can`t be resolved then surely, trinity is the biggest contradition in Christianity.

To better understand the Trinity I will use a human to explain it to you.
A human is a body, mind, spirit, notice the three, however still one.
The body would be Jesus, it goes to the command of the mind, whatever the mind tells it to do it would do, the body does not know what the mind wants it to do until the mind actually tells it to do it. so until you have it in mind that you want to move your leg, your leg won't move.
The mind would be the Father, it is where everything comes from, the thought process and all commands.
The Spirit is the Holy Spirit.

This better explains how it is we are created in the image of God. Mind, Body, and Spirit.

the only thing is that Trinity is eternal.

You can also look at a shamrock, the leaf that has three heads. It is one leaf, but it still has three leafs to it. http://www.cusd.chico.k12.ca.us/dna/chapman/teachers/GregCarlton/album/shamrock.jpg if you click on the link you would be able to see a picture of the shamrock, I tried to copy and paste it here, but couldn't.

God cannot die, however don't forget that Jesus was also a human being. The body can die, but just because the body dies does not mean that that is the end to that person (remember a person is not just made up of a body). Jesus is a person and not just a body. SO because Jesus is a person and this person is God, God never died. Because this person is God and can give life, he gave life to his body, and resurrected. this is the promise to those who follow christ and are faithful.

The word trinity is the definition of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Trinity appears in the Bible, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit appears in the Bible. We just have a name for all three. So instead of saying Father, Son, Holy Spirit, it is understood as Trinity. Look at it this way, Trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit for short.

Now I know you are looking for a contradiction in Christianity. It pains you that the truth won't die, I understand that, but you will do well to actually try to understand it and save yourself.
So sorry you will never find a contradiction in Christianity. Instead of looking for a contradiction in Christianity, why don't you go and make sure your religion is flawless. The best way to tell those who are insecure is to look at how they treat others. You are insecure in your belief, therefore to make yourself look better you try to make others look worse.

Now everytime I have encountered someone who tries to make themselves look good by making Christianity look bad they are muslims. So if you feel that Islam has all the answers then please be secure in yourself and stop trying to find your confidence in Christianity.

I really enjoy ur logical point as Jesus been the word of God. U're right to some extent, but dont u think that Jesus is more than just word? The Bible made us 2 understand that Jesus is a Son of God the first creation of God. That made Him a supernatural spiritual person. He Jesus even said that His father is greater than Him. The WORD there means that He is God's spoke man. So a son can not be equal with is father. Thanks

Dear Lady,

There was a point in time in past were Jesus did not exist. Consider this very clear scripture: Colossians 1:15, which refers to Jesus as the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation.

To be the first born of all creation means exactly what it means. Jesus was created first before all other creation. If Jesus was created he cannot be equal to God. If you don`t agree with Colossians i will love to hear your view on that scripture. Also note that the portion says he is the image of the invisble God. An image may look very much like the person it models, but the image is not the person.

God is a person. This indicates that he has a personality, such as power, love , justice, etc. But God is a spirit person. The word person does not only refer to humans with flesh and blood. The holy spirit is not a person. The scripture has made reference to what God said, what Jesus said, but the scripture never speaks of the holyspirit as saying anything, or reflecting the attributes of God, like Jesus did. The holyspirit is simply Gods power that he uses to accomplish his will, and can infuse this power into people.

If Jesus was God then there was no need to pray at all and request permision to ressurect (eg Lazarus) or when he prayed on the loaves of bread and fishes? You take permision from someone above you not vice versa.

Why also is the word Trinity not found in the bible if it is so fundamental to christian belief?

before i reply to this i'd like to ask if you are a christian or not and if you are, are catholic or protestant and if protestant, are you baptist,pentecostal e.t.c.

@ ezemama

Am a christian (baptist) for sure,

I have doubts though of some beliefs i have come to accept over the years. I`ve been thinking lately of the truth behind these fundamental beliefs and found that "trinity" has many question to answer. Who am i worshipping, God, Jesus or spirit. Jesus Himself said to satan, at Luke 4:8, you must worship
the Lord your God and serve only him. He did not say they, but said "Him". That "Him" must have a one personality.  I want to worship only God almighty the creator of the universe through Jesus as God instructed.

Sometime ago i heard a sermon in church i can't remember the exact topic of the sermon but the message struck me and has stayed with me ever since, The issue of the Trinity is something we should be very careful when discussing least we commit blasphemy, There is something known as "Divine mystery" and that is what the holy trinity will always remain to we humans no matter how knowledgeable or vast we claim to be on liturgical matters, On this topic we will always be groping in the dark. A great philosopher decades or probably centuries ago sat at, the beach, as he watched the waves her was trying desperately had to decipher the true meaning of the holy trinity day-in, day-out he kept coming back to the beach where he did his best thinking, one day as he sat there seriously and deeply in thought he became aware of a child of say about 3 or 4 years old trying to dig a huge hole in the sand and failing miserably, after observing him for a while he walked up to him and asked what he was trying to do, and the child replied that he was trying to dig a hole where he will fill all the water in the ocean, and the philosopher couldn't help himself and burst into laughter, after laughing to his hearts content he told the child that what he was doing was very, very, impossible and the child replied then why are you doing the same thing, Now i wonder if there's any lesson to be learnt here

@ ezemama

If someone was lying to me on the truth of trinity, would concluding that the whole idea is a mistery not be an easy excuse for not answering fundamental questions? The intelligence humans have was given to us by God, for good reason, that we would not be decieved, but understand our faith. God would not judge us for blasphemy, because he reads hearts and knows our motive is to know the truth about him, not to disrespect him.

If i asked where did God come from, someone could say we should not bother think about it, that it is a mystery. But the bible refers to God as King of eternity. So God has always been there always, so no mistery.

Why should it be claimed that God and Jesus are equal, when he categorically stated, the father is greater than i am, and in work and deed he reflected that view. Read John 14: 28,29. This is not my idea, it is in the holy bible, and this scripture is no mistery. However, it directly conflicts with what trinity says God is. Rather than doubt this scripture i would doubt trinity because that is the part that men inferred. When making inferences error is a possibility. I would be glad if someone can carify how Jesus himself could say God is greater than him while trinity says they are equal.

Concluding that it is a mystery is another way of avoiding the bone of the issue. When we ask questions we learn more,

People would call me mad when I said things like, “in your Bible there are added verses to support your trinity theory.” Christians say oh he’s crazy, or he’s mad. Christians claim that a trinity exists in the Bible, when it doesn’t. I repeat, yes, you can find the words “the father, the word, and the Holy Ghost and these three are one” in 1 John 5:7-9 in any version of the Bible. However if you were to consult the original manuscript of the original Aramic or Syriac Bible, you would find that these words don’t exist and that they were added in.
If your preacher, teacher, minister, pastor,deacon or any other religious leader really cared, he would take time out to research the original language, rather than rely on poor translations. If they knew how to translate from the original Syriac (Arabic) and Galilean Arabic, the verse 1 John 5:7 that you are familiar with today did not exist. Neither did it exist in the original Hebrew and Greek that were translated from these original languages. It wasn’t until the onset of the Roman Catholic Church that this distortion was made. The Roman Catholics inserted the trinity verse when they tranlated the bible from Greek to Latin. Notice I say “inserted” and not “translated” because, as I already said, the original Greek did not have this verse. However, you will find some Greek translations that have been translated from Latin or English, and it is in these Greek translations that you will find either the whole trinity verse or only a portion of it.

1 John 5:7 is surrounded in controversy because there are two versions of this verse. So-called scholars say the verse used in most bibles today is either not the original verse, or they say that it is only partially genuine. These so-called scholars continue to argue back and forth on this subject because they really don’t want to admit that the trinity really has no basis in the teachings of Jesus.

I will refer to the Holy Bible from Ancient Manuscripts by George M. Lamsa, which is a bible that is translated from the original Aramic or Syriac language :

6 This is he who came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood.
7 And the Spirit testifies that that very Spirit is the truth.
8 And there are three to bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three are one.

When you read 1 John 5:7 in your standard bible, which in this case is the Ryrie Study Bible (King James Version). . . you will read this:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Do you see what happened?? . . . You will find that the original verse 5:7, has been actually pushed up to merge with verse 5:6.

Horus,

thanks for your contribution. I`ll do research in that direction to assertain for sure. What's interesting is that even if you take that portion you quoted to be true were true, it would not even mean trinity. If the spirit, father and son are one what do you mean? Are they one person or one purpose, Thats simply ambigous. If trinity is so true Jesus would never say his father is greater than him. When Jesus taught his disciples to pray he only made reference to the santification of God's name. Why did he not say they should sanctify the spirit? If the trinity were true it would mean that God the father, and Jesus relied on the Holy spirit for their power. Then when we pray we should pray to the holy spirit rather than "God the Father", because the power is with the holy spirit.

The concept of trinity is a product of instituitionalized religion, it as no biblical bases and it is actually blasphemous. Jesus christ worshipped his father, he cannot be equal to him.

Ezeamama:

Sometime ago i heard a sermon in church i can't remember the exact topic of the sermon but the message struck me  and has stayed with me ever since, The issue of the Trinity is something we should be very careful when discussing least we commit blasphemy, There is something known as "Divine mystery" and that is what the holy trinity will always remain to we humans no matter how knowledgeable or vast we claim to be on liturgical matters, On this topic we will always be groping in the dark. A great philosopher decades or probably centuries ago sat at, the beach, as he watched the waves her was trying desperately had to decipher the true meaning of the holy trinity day-in, day-out he kept coming back to the beach where he did his best thinking, one day as he sat there seriously and deeply in thought he became aware of a child of say about 3 or 4 years old trying to dig a huge hole in the sand and failing miserably, after observing him for a while he walked up to him and asked what he was trying to do, and the child replied that he was trying to dig a hole where he will fill all the water in the ocean, and the philosopher couldn't help himself and burst into laughter, after laughing to his hearts content he told the child that what he was doing was very, very, impossible[b] and the child replied then why are you doing the same thing, [/b]Now i wonder if there's any lesson to be learnt here

This story is a lie.  Perhaps it's just allegory, not historical. How did the child know that the guy was thinking about the trinity, he never told the child, and by what criteria did the child come to the conclusion that understanding it was impossible.  

Again, I find an abuse of the word Mystery.  Mystery does not mean that which is unknown.  But rather that which is Unknowable in Human terms of knowing.  I might not know where my car keys are and describe their whereabouts as a mystery, but once I find my car keys it's whereabouts ceases to be a mystery.  In this case the 'mystery' is not integral to the whereabouts of my car keys because in time the mystery vanishes.  However the Mystery of Divinity will never vanish because Mystery is integral to Divinity.  Divinity does not fall into any human epistemological categories, so it is impossible with the human mind to some day come to know Divinity.

Pastor AIO:

 However the Mystery of Divinity will never vanish because Mystery is integral to Divinity.  Divinity does not fall into any human epistemological categories, so it is impossible with the human mind to some day come to know Divinity.

Using your line of reasoning, could it not be said that it is impossible with the human mind to someday come to know/comprehend the Trinity?

debosky:

Using your line of reasoning, could it not be said that it is impossible with the human mind to someday come to know/comprehend the Trinity?

The 'Trinity' is a concept that has been articulated by human minds and communicated to other human minds. A mystery cannot be articulated by any language that humans speak as they trade concepts between one another.

Pastor AIO:

The 'Trinity' is a concept that has been articulated by human minds and communicated to other human minds. A mystery cannot be articulated by any language that humans speak as they trade concepts between one another.

I disagree - I believe it is an ATTEMPT to articulate a Divine quality, and such attempts obviously fall short, hence the difficulty in comprehensively describing it.

Secondly, this 'concept' is based on scripture such as John 1:1, unless of course you are disputing the commonly (and I believe correct) interpretation that the Word was God, and that Jesus is the word - also confirmed by Jesus' words that "I and the Father are one"

I like to see a mystery as a jigsaw puzzle that has not yet been fixed but can be fixed by holding the big picture in hand even if it takes time.
Confusion on the other hand is like a puzzle where there are parts that do not even fit into the big picture and they just try to force them together.
Why could Jesus not simply say there is a trinity and teach about it?
I think before anyone starts quoting the catholic canonized bible they should understand the circumstances under which this book was compiled and even try and read about the council of nicea.
Better yet give us a definition of what the trinity is and what the nature of the trinity is?

debosky:

I disagree - I believe it is an ATTEMPT to articulate a Divine quality, and such attempts obviously fall short, hence the difficulty in comprehensively describing it.

Secondly, this 'concept' is based on scripture such as John 1:1, unless of course you are disputing the commonly (and I believe correct) interpretation that the Word was God, and that Jesus is the word - also confirmed by Jesus' words that "I and the Father are one"

So far as it is nothing but an Attempt, and one that falls short, so therefore cannot be an accurate depiction of Divinity then I can accept that.

I have no argument with John1:1. Except I would not translate it as the Word was God, but rather God was the word. It might seem trivial, and it probably is, but a such a trivial exchange is all that is need for some interpreters (like the JW bible) to say 'and the Word was a god'.

However in the original the order is like this Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. Which reads In Arche (the beginning) was the Logos (λόγος), and the Logos was with the God, and God was the Logos. If you notice the sentence finishes with Logos not God. There is no way that can be interpreted as the Logos was 'a god'.

Pastor AIO:

So far as it is nothing but an Attempt, and one that falls short, so therefore cannot be an accurate depiction of Divinity then I can accept that.

I have no argument with John1:1. Except I would not translate it as the Word was God, but rather God was the word. It might seem trivial, and it probably is, but a such a trivial exchange is all that is need for some interpreters (like the JW bible) to say 'and the Word was a god'.

However in the original the order is like this Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. Which reads In Arche (the beginning) was the Logos (λόγος), and the Logos was with the God, and God was the Logos. If you notice the sentence finishes with Logos not God. There is no way that can be interpreted as the Logos was 'a god'.

I agree - but this is the same with any other conception of God we have - it cannot be accurate!

even interpretations of El Shaddai El Yireh and other names, are limited by our ability to absorb this. In that sense, it is a moot point to speak of being able of adequately conceptualising any aspect of Divinity.

Even something as simple as 'God is good' is beyond our comprehension - questions like 'How does a good God allow people to suffer when not at fault?' still arise, even amongst believers.

Is the trinity biblical? It is an interpretation based on biblical evidence, even if it was not explicitly described as such.

If any comprehension is impossible as you argue. . . . .then surely you are rendering all of religion and the ''industry''
it supports largely irrelevant

All these boils down to the incomprehensibility of God.  In latin they say finitum non capox infinitum which means that the finite man cannot grasp or contain the infinite.  We cannot squeeze God into a box that is, we as finite creatures work as finite planes.  We cannot capture everything about God and the moment we are able to do this God then ceases to be God. 

God transcends the limit of human reason and therefore He is not only rational, He is super rational.  That is the reason why there is a limit to what the finite mind can comprehend when it comes to the nature of God.  To know God is different from knowing about God.  To know God we have to depend on revelation knowledge because God is both hidden and revealed, which theologians term as Deus abscondiitus.  God remains hidden to us, however, He has revealed Himself to us manifestly, verbally and generally, through His Word and through His creation.

God has given us a working knowledge of Himself to us that is functional for our living and daily relationship with Him.  He has also given us a language by which He communicates with us and the use of analogy.  Everything nature tells us something about God. Rom.1:19,20.  For more of how God has revealed Himself to us through the analogy, nature and His Word check the following link:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.160.html#bot

OLAADEGBU:

All these boils down to the incomprehensibility of God.  In latin they say finitum non capox infinitum which means that the finite man cannot grasp or contain the infinite.  We cannot squeeze God into a box that is, we as finite creatures work as finite planes.  We cannot capture everything about God and the moment we are able to do this God then ceases to be God. 

God transcends the limit of human reason and therefore He is not only rational, He is super rational.  That is the reason why there is a limit to what the finite mind can comprehend when it comes to the nature of God.  To know God is different from knowing about God.  To know God we have to depend on revelation knowledge because God is both hidden and revealed, which theologians term as Deus abscondiitus.  God remains hidden to us, however, He has revealed Himself to us manifestly, verbally and generally, through His Word and through His creation.

God has given us a working knowledge of Himself to us that is functional for our living and daily relationship with Him.  He has also given us a language by which He communicates with us and the use of analogy.  Everything nature tells us something about God. Rom.1:19,20.  For more of how God has revealed Himself to us through the analogy, nature and His Word check the following link:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.160.html#bot

why does it take men like you and other god people to tell us who and what god is? why does god use people to propagate and promulgate his messages and teachings if he doesnt really want people to fully understand him. . . . this post is your personal belief and observation. . infact its your personal opinion about who you feel your god isthere are a lot of christains out there who will strongly disagree with your assertion. . . all people do is give their own personal and sometimes flawed opinions about issues and events after which they will then athuoritatively declear it as god's position. . .

@Lady, Bastage, Olaadegbu

We have discussed this very extensively in some threads in which I couldnt locate some, but here are some for you supporters of trinity.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.32.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-68474.64.html

I really enjoy ur logical point as Jesus been the word of God. U're right to some extent, but don't u think that Jesus is more than just word? The Bible made us 2 understand that Jesus is a Son of God the first creation of God. That made Him a supernatural spiritual person. He Jesus even said that His father is greater than Him. The WORD there means that He is God's spoke man. So a son can not be equal with is father. Thanks

Well I am sorry but your knowledge of Jesus Christ is wrong. He is the Word of God made flesh, he is the Son because he is the WORD. There is no hierarchy with being the Word and the Son. It is the same thing. The Son is the Word made flesh. Being word doesn't mean he is less equal. It sounds to me that you want it to be that Jesus and the Father are not equal.
Unfortunately we don't always get what we want.
So you can want it to be that way but it isn't.
Jesus is not just the Son of God he is the Word of God.
Just as ~Lady~ is one of the names I am called or descriptions of me. It doesn't make me anyless me.

If your name is Emeka Chinonso Igwe, you are Emeka, you are also Chinonso, you are also Igwe. If someone calls you Emeka and another calls you Chinonso, does it say that your name as Chinonso make you any less than your name as Emeka. Or won't you be the same person.

Look people you can try to convince yourself anything, but it doesn't change the truth.

SO the SOn and the Father are co-equal. Thanks.

There was a point in time in past were Jesus did not exist. Consider this very clear scripture: Colossians 1:15, which refers to Jesus as the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation.

To be the first born of all creation means exactly what it means. Jesus was created first before all other creation. If Jesus was created he cannot be equal to God. If you don`t agree with Colossians i will love to hear your view on that scripture. Also note that the portion says he is the image of the invisble God. An image may look very much like the person it models, but the image is not the person.

Oga Jesus Christ became a creation, but that is not to say that he didn't exist before. In order for something to "become" it had to have had a nature before it became another nature.

That's what makes it even more special and even more important, because God himself was willing to suffer himself as creation in order to save his creation. That is profound. That is true and ending love.

Actually if I look at my image in the mirror that is me. It is a reflection of myself. Unless you do not understand what a reflection is.
When one takes a picture, does that mean that the person in the picture is not one. If it is not one then who is it. How can you image be any different from you.
Or is it that you don't know what an image is?

Jesus Christ gave us a face to God. He made God visible for us to see. He is the image of the Unknown one.

As for scripture please don't try to put your own view in to it. To interpret scripture is to interpret it purely as what it is, instead of making it become what you want it to be.

Now you did the typical thing as anyone who wants to distort scripture to their own view, you quoted out of context and interpreted out of context.

Colossians 1:15 continues on

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For in him were created all things in heaven and earth, the visible and invisible.

AS IN HE IS THE SOURCE, GOD IS THE SOURCE OF ALL CREATION, SO THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION IS THE SOURCE OF ALL CREATION.

God is a person. This indicates that he has a personality, such as power, love , justice, etc. But God is a spirit person. The word person does not only refer to humans with flesh and blood. The holy spirit is not a person. The scripture has made reference to what God said, what Jesus said, but the scripture never speaks of the holyspirit as saying anything, or reflecting the attributes of God, like Jesus did. The holyspirit is simply Gods power that he uses to accomplish his will, and can infuse this power into people.

If Jesus was God then there was no need to pray at all and request permision to ressurect (eg Lazarus) or when he prayed on the loaves of bread and fishes? You take permision from someone above you not vice versa.

Why also is the word Trinity not found in the bible if it is so fundamental to christian belief?

Does your body and word have minds on their own and do they operate without your brain sending a command to them? This is a serious question and would like your answer if I am to continue.

Maybe you missed my explanation on the word trinity not being in the Bible, but I am not one to be redundant, go back through my posts and read.

Am a christian (baptist) for sure,

I have doubts though of some beliefs i have come to accept over the years. I`ve been thinking lately of the truth behind these fundamental beliefs and found that "trinity" has many question to answer. Who am i worshipping, God, Jesus or spirit. Jesus Himself said to satan, at Luke 4:8, you must worship
the Lord your God and serve only him. He did not say they, but said "Him". That "Him" must have a one personality. I want to worship only God almighty the creator of the universe through Jesus as God instructed.

Jesus was quoting scriptue. I can state a quotation about myself. So this passage doesn't refute Jesus being God.
I can easily be reading something about myself that is written and read it verbatum.

For example

Image for a minute that I am an actress and a tabloid just wrote that I am having an affair with Brad Pitt.

This is the article

~Lady~ was seen going to dinner with Brad Pitt in Sunset Beach in Miami, Fl. They spent the whole day together and was seen last night partying.

Now imagine that I just saw the article and I am reading it out loud to my best friend. So I decide to read verbatum.

This is the convo with my friend:

Me: omg, they so totally lied
friend: about what?
me: about me and brad pitt
friend: what does the article say?
Me: ~Lady~ was seen going to dinner with Brad Pitt in Sunset Beach in Miami, FL. They spent the whole day together and was seen last night partying.

So do you see that I can speak of myself in the third person, especially if it is in quotation? I can recite something about myself verbatum.
So the above passage does not refute Christ as being God.

We can't rely on Scripture to discount Christ as being a creation.
John states that "In the beginning was the Word". It is widely accepted that Christ was the Word.
Therefore, Christ was there right at the beginning.

My advice is not to get too hung up about finding a logical explanation for the structure of the Trinity. Instead, look for the idea behind it.

@ugborikoko,
Do you believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

@olaadegbu et al
Logic cannot be escaped even when you say the spirit is leading you Logic is a system of reasoning you use to reach a conclusion from premisses; It is internally consistent and has nothing to do with the natural or the supernatural.
Even beliving in the trinity has its own logical steps the only problem one will face is if the conclusion is what you desire to achieve.
So stop making factually wrong statements like that just because the clergy has always played that wild card.