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Stats: 1174530 members, 1486537 topics. Date: Wednesday, 11 December 2013 at 11:21 AM
|Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by segyemaro(m): 1:14pm On Dec 03, 2008|
i am not realy happy the way church members are beign brain washed by our so call pastors,may god help us all.in deut14:22-end,i was made to understand that tithes are to be given to the poor.you are to eat your tithe and give to the poor and the widows,but our greedy pastors are always quoting from malachi 3:8,and this same passage have lost its value bicos any church you go this passage would be read.i am sure if tithe is stoped,most of this pastors will go hungry cos that is the only avenue to get good money,bicos people dont give good offerings.the last day would be very sweet.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by chukwudi44(m): 5:11pm On Dec 03, 2008|
dont mind those hungry pastors ,they why dont they go and read 2 thes3:6-9.It goes thus
But we command you brethren in the name of our Lord Jesus,tht you withdraw from every brotherwho walks dishhonestly and not according to tradition,which he reeived from us.For you yourself know how you ought to follow us,for we were not disorderly among you,nor did we eat anyone's bread free of charge but worked with labour day and night that we might not be a burden to any of you.
Not because we do not have authourity,but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Horus(m): 7:14pm On Dec 03, 2008|
Yes Christians should stop giving tithe!!. Jesus never took from his congregation. He never passed around a basket or tray to receive pledges and donations at the end of each sermon. He never asked for a payment. Nor did he ever tell his disciples to accept money for their assistance as found in Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by anonimi: 9:46pm On Dec 03, 2008|
Yes, we should stop giving tithes (specific 10% of income).
However, we should generously give offerings of money, time etc to any meeting/group of fellow xtians that we adhere ourself to (church? - not necessarily)
The offering we give may be 10% (or less or more) but must not be made out of compulsion, threats/curses or coercion, wether openly or subtly.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 10:37pm On Dec 03, 2008|
If you stopped giving tithes or any other percentage, you think your worries would be over? Are you sure that tithes are the ONLY avenue for people to make money out of believers? Have you truly checked out what actually is at the root of filthy lucre?
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 10:49pm On Dec 03, 2008|
Lol, this is quite amusing. . . it seems you're not sure whether your answer should be an absolute "yes" or a compromising "no" or "maybe". Why do many Christians have this mentality that "tithes" is always and specifically 10%? How long are we going to allow that mentality to blur our understanding of what the term means in its varied applications? Many others who oppose tithing are becoming aware that tithes are not specifically 10% and may include other variables below and above that percentage. Whether you argue that people may give 10% or less (or any other percentage for that matter), it is still a percentage of whatever you have as total.
The talk of "generously giving" and yet complaining against 1 out of 10 (i.e., 10%) does not demonstrate how generous most people would like to be (please note: I'm not accusing you). This is often the argument - to recommend giving generously and claim that NT Christian giving is "superior' to tithes, often is the case that we are not comfortable at all with the "superior" if 1 out of 10 is a nightmare! Where is the "generosity" that makes NT giving "superior" to such people in that recommendation if at the same time they are often complaining about the "inferior" of 1 out of 10? Give as you have determined personally - and mean it! Let not just 1 out of 10 be grievious to us and then at the same time we speak of a "superior" NT "Christian" giving.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by chukwudi44(m): 7:25am On Dec 04, 2008|
pilgrim,please nobody is saying we shouldn't give to the church.What we are trying to say is that it should be free will and not necessary 10%.If you want to give 100%,it must come from your mind and not because any pastor saya you must do that.Do you know that in most pentecostal churches,if you dont tithe it is regarded as sin?
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 9:33am On Dec 04, 2008|
This because most penticostal churches are business outfits and like any other business profit maximization is the driving force hence they have to adopt all sorts of lies and scams to extort money from their
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 10:27am On Dec 04, 2008|
Please, let's try and be reasonable. "Should We Stop Giving Tithes?" - that is what was being argued here from topic to OP; and my reply was this - "If you stopped giving tithes or any other percentage, you think your worries would be over?" That is a different matter from saying "it should be free will". If people want to stop giving any percentage, what is my worry?
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 10:42am On Dec 04, 2008|
Why should i be bothered if anybody decides to flush his/her money down the drain.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by segyemaro(m): 12:57pm On Dec 04, 2008|
yea,i once fellowshiped in one of the pentecostal church in kaduna,when it was time for tithes,the pastor came out and said and i quote IF YOU DONT GIVE YOUR TITHE TO GOD ,YOU ARE A ROBBER,COS YOU ARE STEALING WHAT IS RIGHTFUL GODS, i never believed my ear. A friend of mine always give his tithe to the needy,what he does is,he will accumulate his tithe for like 3- 4 months and give it to the needy and fatherless. There was an instance were the holy spirit directed him to take the tithe to abuja,when he got to abuja,the holy spirit directed him to Karmo in abuja,when he got there he saw a woman frying Akara(Bean Cake) and he was directed to give the money to the woman,he parked his car and went to the woman,and introduce himself,and brought out the envelope and gave her,though she was scared,but collected it.When she looked in side it was eighty seven thousand naira(87,000),the woman nearly fell into the oil she was frying with.She now told the man that she has been giving that weekend to pack out of were she is leaving with 4 children,and the kids were equally sent out of the school for lack of school fees,this woman is a widow. This woman was able to pay her kids school fees,pay her house rent and was able to stock her house with food stuff. So you can see that this tithe has helped the helpless than giving it to a already fully rich pastor.And this pastors dont even have time for the widows and the needy in their church.so you can see we have alot ahead of us.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 1:39pm On Dec 04, 2008|
Your story is interesting, thank you for sharing. I see that as a refreshing answer to the topic: "should we stop giving tithes?" Do i then take it that we should not stop giving tithes?
Like I've been trying to point out, perhaps we should realise that "tithes" are not the problem at all. If we can all see that, it makes me wonder why people are averse to it and try to argue that it has no place in the life of a Christian. It is either it does, or it simply does not. To which I would like a few people opposed to tithes to check this out:
Okay, the Holy Spirit directed the man to take his tithes to Abuja and even pointed out the person he was to give his tithes to. The Spirit did not tell this man that "tithe" has no place in the Christian life. Just an observation to the question: "Should We Stop Giving Tithe?"
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by segyemaro(m): 2:01pm On Dec 04, 2008|
This friend of mine i am talking about is also a pastor and work with an oil company,he has never given his tithe in the church ,his tithe has always been going to the needy,and he has always been blessed for that.even in Deuteronomy 14 also spells it that your tithe is for you and your family and you should not forget the poor and the needy,so wat are we saying.without tithe most of these churches will close up shop.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 2:44pm On Dec 04, 2008|
The question is what I was observing - "Should We Stop Giving Tithes?" If we are to stop, no wahala; if we are to continue, no wahala. I am wondering that this pastor friend of yours was directed by the Holy Spirit to give tithes; but at the same time, others tell us that tithes has no place to Christians and it is wrong to do so. The Holy Spirit did not tell this pastor friend of yours that it was wrong to give tithes; rather he was directed to give tithes.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 2:58pm On Dec 04, 2008|
pilgrim.1:Stop confusing issues nobody as said it is wrong to pay tithes what we have maintained is wrong is the falsehood that pastors preach about tithes being a compulsory 10% of your income given to the church. I am sure most pastors would frown at the idea of this man giving his tithes to the needy cos in their greediness and selfishness, they want it for themselves.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by steve49ja(m): 3:18pm On Dec 04, 2008|
hehehehe big and serious issues about pastors would never cease
follow your spirit or do as your spirit leads you
for me em em i'm not sure. . .
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 3:58pm On Dec 04, 2008|
Dear sir, did you say that "nobody has said it is wrong to pay tithes"? Are you not the same fellow who has said that very thing by declaring "it is wrong for us as Christians to receive or pay tithes"?!? Please calm down and read it here
KunleOshob, are YOU not the person saying that very thing? People who see things plainly will not agree with that sort of attitude.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 4:22pm On Dec 04, 2008|
When i stated that it is wrong for christians to receive or pay tithes, i was sayiing it withtin the context of the compulsory bullshit pastors preacher. However if it is given freely (not under compulsion) it is perfectly in order.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Sisi Jinx: 4:34pm On Dec 04, 2008|
I admire your Bible knowledge, I do but I have to say, sometimes you take nitpicking (for lack of a better word) to an extreme and it has a way of distracting from the issue at hand.
Majority of us are Nigerians, which means we have slightly similar experiences, similar understanding of certain words, phrases and contexts (especially when it comes to Religion). You asked “Why do many Christians have this mentality that "tithes" is always and specifically 10%?” We think so because that’s what we’ve been taught right from the moment we could tell the difference between a 1 Naira note and a 5 Naira note. Since this is an informal setting (as opposed to writing a dissertation for publication), I think it is okay to speak from the point of view of these similarities instead of the point of view what might be universally correct. When the Author says “Should we stop paying tithes?” most of us already know what he means and if we need confirmation or clarification, all we have to do is read further down.
I think instead of picking on how a certain word or phrase is used correctly or incorrectly, you could help us understand what these terms mean in their varied applications and how tithes are not specifically 10% and may include other variables below and above that percentage, how whether one argues that people may give 10% or less (or any other percentage for that matter), it is still a percentage of whatever you have as total.
Now I know that you might be pushing for people to be precise in their posts so people can understand what the topic is about (a nice gesture, don’t get me wrong) but you also have to understand that people aren’t dense, we may not be Bible scholars but we have the basic reading comprehension skills. I sincerely believe if anyone had read further down, they would have gotten the real gist of the topic being discussed. Having to go through off point verbiage on semantics or when and how to use the right verbs, pronouns, adjective, structure, definition etc, can be tiring and just makes a reader want to give up reading the thread. . . which if you think about it, is the opposite of what you are really pushing for.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 4:36pm On Dec 04, 2008|
This is why I said earlier that I am no longer sure what you are opposed to. You stated clearly that "nobody has said it is wrong to pay tithes" whereas you are the very person who had stated unequivocally that "it is wrong for us as Christians to receive or pay tithes". The context you're now proffering is a mere excuse - because you did not contain it as within the "compulsory bullshit pastors" that has been your worry. If tithes are given freely and it is perfectly in order to do so, why have you been arguing that it has no place in the Christian life and it is belittling of the priestly order of Jesus Christ?
Please, learn to be consistent. You have shifted the goalposts too many times now that I am no longer sure where you stand - whether "it is wrong for Christians" to tithe; or "it is perfectly in order" to do so!
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 4:51pm On Dec 04, 2008|
Thank you for your replies; but I think you have misread me on several accounts. First, I am not nitpicking. If I was the one that is confusing issues by declaring that it is wrong to pay tithes and then come back to say nobody has said so, I'm sure a lot of people would have dug out their dictionaries to brand me names I never heard from birth. That said, here are a few things that you got wrong:
"Tithe" is not limited to 10%; and even though that is a recent point that I was moved to bring out, it was only because many people are unaware that the talk of "Christian giving is superior" is a farce if and only if we keep complaining about 1 out of 10 while claiming to give beyond our ability! with regards to this thread, I have endeavoured to remain within the context of what was broached for discussion - should we stop giving tithes, or should we continue? Whatever is the case, if we say "yes" or "no", the preliminary discussions have shown what people think (I am not even concerned that people measure it out in exactitude of 10% in every case).
I have done as requested - please see the appropriate thread (To Tithe Or Not To Tithe).
I didn't make anyone out to be dense. If you notice, I have refrained from long theological debates and only ask simple questions in this thread and made a few observations.
Please let's try and be honest - there is no reason to drag things the way you have done. I didn't call for the semantics you assumed and it is actually becoming such a bore for people to resort to that same idea every single time when issues are pointed out. I made simple observations following from the OP, and no where did try to subject the OP to the sort of thing you have said above. My observations were precisely in accord with the topic and OP - and the poster came back to share a testimony, which made me wonder that the Holy Spirit did not tell his pastor friend that it was "wrong" to give tithes. I hope that is clear enough?
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by KunleOshob(m): 5:13pm On Dec 04, 2008|
pilgrim.1:I have been very very consistent in my submissions against this fraudulent practise of compulsory tithing based on a manipulation of old testament scripture. However if a christian should decide to devote 10% or whatever % he feels like giving to the church based on his on personal convicts and not twisted scripture he is in order. But if he is doing it based on what our pastors preach about compulsary tithing, then he is definitely wrong.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by chukwudi44(m): 5:36pm On Dec 04, 2008|
THE FACT IS THAT TITHING HAS BEEN ABOLISHED(heb7:18,eph 2:15).WE CAN GIVE TO THE CHURCH AND THE POOR WITHOUT MAKING ANY REFENCES TO THE OLD TESTAMENT.MIND YOU THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCES B/W FREE GIVING AND TITHING.
TITHING AS PRACTISED IN THE OLD TESTASTEMENT WAS COMPULSORY FOR EVERY JEW,AND MUST BE PRACTISED AS STATED.ONCE A YEAR AND ONCE IN EVERY 3 YEARS.YOU CANNOT PAY TITHE EVERY MONTH.WHER WAS TITHING EVER PAID MONTHLY IN THE OLD TESTAMENT?
DID IT INVOVE MONEY ? DID THEY EARLY CHURCH PRACTISE TITHING? YHE CLEAR ANSWERS TO THIS QUESTIONS IS NO.TITHING AS PRACTISED TODAY IS UNBIBLICAL AND CLEARLY UNCHRISTIAN. MIND YOU MOSES LEFT A CURSE AFTER GIVING THE LAW,THE CURSE WILL FALL ON YOU IF YOU DO NOT OBEY EVERYTHING STATED IN THE LAW.SO IF YOU WANT TO TITHE, YOU MUSTOBEY ALL THE OTHER LAWS OF MOSES OR ELSE
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 5:39pm On Dec 04, 2008|
Please have the grace to acknowledge your inconsistency - it does not hurt to do so. You can't be speaking two opposite things and claiming they are the same! To declare that "nobody has said it is wrong to pay tithes" is not the same thing as your declaring that " it is wrong for us as Christians to receive or pay tithes". Excusing these convoluted declarations both coming from none other but you is why I wonder about the consistency you claim.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by pilgrim.1(f): 5:40pm On Dec 04, 2008|
Could you share the difference(s), please?
That's okay - there are a whole lot of things Christians do without making reference to the OT either.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by wobidi(m): 6:12pm On Dec 04, 2008|
I have seen and read all your posts and for me the are interesting every point was carefully laid.But i will like to add that tighting is good.Whichever way you see and Use it it is good for the support of God's Word and God's Children.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by OBVIOUS(m): 6:31pm On Dec 04, 2008|
There's no where in the bible that says that tithe HAS to be a Monetary donation.
I do however, believing that giving is important. (to a charity or to a church) which ever suits ur boat.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by manmustwac(m): 6:50pm On Dec 04, 2008|
YES we should stop giving tithes merely because u give 10% of your salary and out of the 100% tithes our pastors collect from the congregation less than 10% of the money goes back into the community. If the same congregation were donating the same 10% of thier wages towards some kind of business investment and foundout that 90% of thier money was being misused they will stop donating wouldn't they?
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by OBVIOUS(m): 6:52pm On Dec 04, 2008|
good point!! Tithes are taken from the people used to buy private jets and large homes, and in turn only oppresses the common man like "joe the 7 pack"
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by OBVIOUS(m): 6:53pm On Dec 04, 2008|
I do however, strongly encourage giving. (tithing to a church or to a charity.) which ever suits ur boat.
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by Sisi Jinx: 9:06pm On Dec 04, 2008|
|Re: Should We Stop Giving Tithe? by scottN(m): 9:16pm On Dec 04, 2008|
Separate the idea of giving tithe to ur PASTOR 4rm giving 2 God and u'll b happy giving tithes. Most times we fail 2 realize that religion is ur personal r/ship with God. We r often led 2 pleasing our pastors than pleasing God.Play ur part and let God be d judge. He will definitely reward u if u think God than ur pastor when paying tithes.Besides who says its compulsory to give tithes in church. U can direct ur tithes 2 d less privileged like d motherless homes. Just remember that its ur r/ship with God and ur way of life with others that count.
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