A bit away from the op, but how can one believe what jw's say?


JW's say Jesus is not God but an angel.


Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

MzNelly:

IMHO, I couldn't have made a better choice.
We teach the truth, base our teachings on the Bible

Jehovahs witnesses are not the first and only religion who claims to base their teachings on the bible, many christain groups do, particularly from the protestants and evangelical pentecostals. You have to understand that the Bible is not a book that spells out doctrine clearly. Each group chooses the part of scripture to take literally and to dismiss as figuratively. Truth is subjective. Just that I feel it wrong for a Group to claim that only she teaches the truth. Jehovahs witnesses doctrines are not unique, these groups have similar beliefs and practises of witnesses and guess what?? Some claim to be the only group with the truth.

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Tenrikyo
Christadelphians
Southern Baptist Convention
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
Ch'ondogyo
Community of Christ (RLDS)
Baha'i Faith
Seventh-day Adventist Church
New Apostolic Church
Salvation Army
Union of American Hebrew Congregations
Church of Christ, Scientist (Christian Science)
The Church of God (Seventh Day)
Christian and Missionary Alliance
Ahmadiyya
Two By Twos
Unity Church / Unity School of Christianity
Church of God in Christ

have love among ourselves

I haven't seen a christain group that doesn't have love amongst themselves. The catholic church has several societies or brotherhoods who live a communal kind of life.

and most importantly, we preach to others about God

Other christain groups preach the gospel also.

You belong to what denomination?

No. I attend a non-denominational church, and have stated it before in this forum that am a charismatic ecumenist. Beliefs and teachings of denominations are one even in the face of diversity, so long as the continualism of the gift of the spirit is upheld.

paulGrundy:


Jehovahs witnesses are not the first and only religion who claims to base their teachings on the bible, many christain groups do, particularly from the protestants and evangelical pentecostals. You have to understand that the Bible is not a book that spells out doctrine clearly.
Each group chooses the part of scripture to take literally and to dismiss as figuratively. Truth is subjective. Just that I feel it wrong for a Group to claim that only she teaches the truth.



I haven't seen a christain group that doesn't have love amongst themselves. The catholic church has several societies or brotherhoods who live a communal kind of life.



Other christain groups preach the gospel also.



No. I attend a non-denominational church, and have stated it before in this forum that am a charismatic ecumenist. Beliefs and teachings of denominations are one even in the face of diversity, so long as the continualism of the gift of the spirit is upheld.

I dare say, we embrace all forms of truth in the Bible. We don't dismiss anything as irrelevant. Take for instance, the issue of birthdays, Christmas etcetera, etcetera.
There's a certain amount of pride that comes from knowing exactly what you're doing.

Love? Is Love when a Pope goes to pray for a group of army to kill people from other countries successfully; regardless of their religion?

Is love when the Pope himself admits it is not Biblical to celebrate Christmas but still endorses it among his members?


I believe what we teach is truth, except of course, you can convince me otherwise.

I'm liking d way this thread is progressing. Thumbs up Paul and Mznelly.

I cast any thread spoiler out of this thread in d name of ..... OLUWASEUN OSEWA .

Ok, continue

Emusan:
I will soon publish my book titled "why history doesn't favour JWs?"

History doesnt favour Gods prophets like Moses too, does that makes him a false prophet? hope will you add that to your book!

vooks:
paulgrundy,
Do you share your faith with JWs?

you ask a simple question from paulgrundy* based on what he deposed on his profile;

[size=14pt]I am the author of jwfacts.com and here is my story[/size]:

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness by loving parents. My grandmothers, an aunty and uncle and some cousins were Jehovah's Witnesses. After I left home, my father spent twenty years as a Circuit Overseer and my sister and her husband spent time in Bethel prior to having children. I grew up in a congregation where many older Witnesses expressed the strictly fundamental viewpoint that Jehovah personally directed the Organization and soon would destroy anyone that was not a Jehovah's Witness. As promoted in the Watchtower, I thought I was never going to die; I did not even expect to finish school prior to Armageddon. However, Armageddon had not arrived by the time I matriculated so, unusually for Witnesses in the 1980's, my parents were open-minded enough to encourage me to obtain a University degree. I felt I was able to justify obtaining a higher education by studying part-time whilst regular pioneering. I did not end up doing a professional year, as after university I went straight to Bethel.

he dodged the question https://www.nairaland.com/1918340/story-paul-grundy,

MzNelly:


I dare say, we embrace all forms of truth in the Bible. We don't dismiss anything as irrelevant. Take for instance, the issue of birthdays, Christmas etcetera, etcetera.
There's a certain amount of pride that comes from knowing exactly what you're doing.

Love? Is Love when a Pope goes to pray for a group of army to kill people from other countries successfully; regardless of their religion?

Is love when the Pope himself admits it is not Biblical to celebrate Christmas but still endorses it among his members?


I believe what we teach is truth, except of course, you can convince me otherwise.

Before I commence, I would love to thank Seun for his prompt response to my complaint. By hiding that malicious lying post

However I didn't see any need for you to hide that topic. Thanks anyway

@Mznelly, am sorry for not promptly responding to your posts, I was very busy all day. you have a very good point. Many christain denominations have participated in wars, infact some used it to spread their message. But then you must remember that some groups were neutral in war stance, some were even pacifist. But one area I admire JW's for was their strong character in the face of persecution. They refused to partake in war even during life threatening situations. That is thumbs up for me!

As per the issue of xmas celebration I don't see anything wrong with sanctifying a pagan holiday by dedicating it to the birth of Jesus.

Am very curious what is the scriptural basis of Jehovahs witnesses No-christmas stance?

Your prayers have been answered. Guardian Angels everywhere

edogho:
I'm liking d way this thread is progressing. Thumbs up Paul and Mznelly.

I cast any thread spoiler out of this thread in d name of ..... OLUWASEUN OSEWA .

Ok, continue

paulGrundy:


Before I commence, I would love to thank Seun for his prompt response to my complaint. By hiding that malicious lying post

However I didn't see any need for you to hide that topic. Thanks anyway

@Mznelly, you have a very good point. Catholics, methodists, protestants and many others have participated in ways. But then you must remember that some groups were neutral in war stance, some were even pacifist. But one area I admire JW's for was their strong character in the face of persecution. They refused to partake in war even during life threatening situations. That is thumbs up for me!

As per the issue of xmas celebration I don't see anything wrong with sanctifying a pagan holiday by dedicating it to the birth of Jesus.

Am very curious what is the scriptural basis of Jehovahs witnesses No-christmas stance?

Can you say for sure that you know when our Lord, Jesus Christ was born? December 25? Lol

Can you also state precisely where and when and how he asked us to celebrate his birthday?

Can you, Sir, honestly say that the way in which Christmas is celebrated today sanctifies the name of Jesus Christ?

Isn't it more of gifts, nudity, sex and nothing that corresponds to Christ?

MzNelly:

Before I answer that, can you be honest with me too?
Are you an apostate?

Pls rephrase the question and ask if he was once a jw,how long and what cong. You will be suprised with the answers.

dolphinheart:


Pls rephrase the question and ask if he was once a jw,how long and what cong. You will be suprised with the answers.

I know where you're headed, bro.

vooks:
Could you be imbibing some mistakes presently without knowing from the organization kitchen?

When u take a closer look at knowledge u realise that it grows with time. Sometime ago for example, blood letting was a medical practice belived to aid in recovery(US president, George Washinton died while undergoing this treatment), but with the passage of time due to better understanding of the human body it was abandoned. Man used to think of the earth as flat, but with better understanding with time they concluded that the earth was a sphere. Also as man better understands certain phenomena and processes in the earth system, advancements in technology is seen.

In certain ways, knowledge of the scriptures and the principles therein is very much the same.
This is seen in several Bible examples. For example, regarding the prophecy by Daniel through God, God told Daniel: "As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about and the true knowledge will become abundant."
The hebrew verb here translated "rove about" conveys the idea of a careful examination. And true to this, many have carefully examined and understood these prophecies by Daniel even much more than paul and the other apostles. This certainly does not mean that God was not with the apostles.

Note also that the disciples of Christ had been with him throughout his ministry on earth but they had wrong expectations regarding the kingdom of God, for they hadnt fully grasped Jesus' teachings. Luke records: "He was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly." - Luke 19:11. To readjust their thinking, Jesus gave an illustration.

However, just before jesus' ascension, his disciples asked: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?" (Acts 1:6) Did their wrong expectation or lack of knowledge regarding this issue indicate that God wasn't with them? NO. Did Jesus reject them for asking this? NO. He explained that it was not yet the time and that they were to busy themselves with the important work of witnessing about the true messiah. (Acts 1:7,

God's perfect justice is so endearing. He searches the hearts of earthling man. If a person worships him according to his approved way, but has certain mistaken understanding or wrong expectation of prophecy, God blesses his effort and search for true knowledge. I think Jehovah's witnesses have been down-right humble and sincere to abandon sometimes cherished beliefs and understanding of the scriptures in order to align themselve more fully to the healthful teachings found in the Bible.

@MZNelly
How are you?

for MZNelly only*

you will need to go through this link below as a guardiance, and know where you are about to be commited as a jehovahs witness, nice conversation though

https://www.nairaland.com/1537050/tested-trusted-ways-someone-leave

It is only after a Witness has accepted that the Faithful and
Discreet Slave makes mistakes that doctrine becomes interesting to discuss, as Watchtower doctrine is simplistic and flawed in many areas.
A safe topic to discuss is the unreasonableness of believing
"this good news has been
preached in the entire inhabited world" by Jehovah’s Witnesses,
and salvation depends on how people respond to the Witness message. Most people know
nothing about Jehovah’s
Witnesses, over 3 billion have never even heard of them. A Witness may respond that they
don't judge people, but the Watchtower is clear that billions will die at Armageddon.
(Quote) (Report) (Like) (Share)
Re: Tested And Trusted Ways To Help Someone Leave The Watchtower Cult. by Yooguyz(m): 3:59pm On Dec 01, 2013

Techniques

To get through to a Witness you need to use the Socratic method
of asking questions. If you
directly attack the organisation or its teachings a Jehovah’s
Witness will get very defensive.
You will see their eyes glaze over and then they will start reciting
Watchtower justifications by rote. At that point you are not helping them but just letting them reinforce their
indoctrination.
You will not be able to get a witness to look at information on the Internet at first, as they have been conditioned to believe it is all lies from bitter apostates.
Rather, you will need to discuss a point of interest, and then get a
quote from a Watchtower to back up what you are discussing.
Hopefully, they will eventually start to want to look further with
an open mind, and it is not until that stage that recommending they read Crisis Of Conscience will be effective.
Likewise, knowing when to introduce scandalous topics, such as the Watchtower's
involvement with the United Nations or craddle-robber crisis, is
difficult. Whilst awareness of these topics has resulted in tens
of thousands leaving, if they are introduced too early you will be
accused of being a gullible, bitter
apostate. These topics require the person to be ready to read and accept information written
outside the pages of the
Watchtower, which only comes
after they have learnt to question the "Faithful and Discreet Slave".
Stick to one topic at a time, and even one topic a day. A Witness will jump around and side track the discussion every time a difficult question or topic is raised. Stay firm in keeping the
discussion on track, and getting an answer. Make sure they really
answered the question before moving on. If a statement is made that you know is not true,
make them support what they said with evidence. You are not trying to win an argument, but
just to make them think.
A common Witness theme is that
disagreeing with Jehovah's Witnesses is disagreeing with
the Bible, and that leaving the
Organisation is leaving Jehovah.
You will need to regularly
reinforce that the Watchtower contains just one interpretation
of the Bible, one that you have found to be very simplistic and inaccurate. Many former Witnesses still believe the Bible
and in God, but do not want to follow what they have concluded is a damaging belief system.

Whilst discussing various topics, you will sometimes find a
Witness being dogmatic that you are wrong about Watchtower doctrine or history when you
know you are not. Rather then telling them they are wrong, make them commit to that being
an important point. For instance,a conversation may go as follows:

You: God does not direct
Information provided in the Watchtower. For instance did you
realize it was falsely predicted
that the end would come in 1914?

JW: They never said the end would be in 1914, just the end of the Gentile Times.

You: How would you feel if they wrongfully predicted the end for
1914? Don’t you think that is a good indication Jehovah does not direct the Slave?

JW: Well … (they may say yes or no)
If they agree it is good indication of not being directed, then ask
them how they would feel if you were able to find some quotes?
On the other hand, they may claim they don’t care, as the light
gets brighter. That is a good topic for another time, but stick to this topic and continue that
not only did they make these wrong predictions but also what really offended you is that they
have often lied about what they said. Witnesses are often more affected finding out the dishonesty of the Watchtower than about the errors.
For anyone born into the
religion, even more important is to make him or her recognize
that the main reason they believe the Watchtower is the truth is because they were raised a Jehovah’s Witness. If they were
raised a Mormon, then they would be equally convinced that
Mormons are the truth. Then you can ask they put themselves in a
position of being raised a
Mormon. Do they think they would have ever changed to being a Witness? If they were a
Mormon and started studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses and found out that the Watchtower
said the end would be in 1914, or that they built Beth Sarim because Abraham was going to
be resurrected in 1925 and live there, would there be any chance
they would have converted?
It is important to try not to get upset in the conversations, and
that can be a lot harder than expected when being confronted
with what you will quickly see as stubborn refusal to accept logic.

Becoming upset just reinforces the Witness notion that you are
unhappy with where you are. Try to stay light hearted, calm, and
happy, as a Witness will expect you will be filled with rage. If things get heated, nothing will
be accomplished, so save the conversation for another day

Except this is not knowledge but DOCTRINE from God's only voice on earth. The question then is how can we have ANY confidence in any of their current junk? What if that changes? What if they discover they were wrong on the identity of the 144,0000? What if they discover that NWT is a piece of BS?

The changing doctrines means this body is not reliable and as such a genuine truth seeker should not be bound by their pronouncements

BIBLESPEAKS:


When u take a closer look at knowledge u realise that it grows with time. Sometime ago for example, blood letting was a medical practice belived to aid in recovery(US president, George Washinton died while undergoing this treatment), but with the passage of time due to better understanding of the human body it was abandoned. Man used to think of the earth as flat, but with better understanding with time they concluded that the earth was a sphere. Also as man better understands certain phenomena and processes in the earth system, advancements in technology is seen.

In certain ways, knowledge of the scriptures and the principles therein is very much the same.
This is seen in several Bible examples. For example, regarding the prophecy by Daniel through God, God told Daniel: "As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about and the true knowledge will become abundant."
The hebrew verb here translated "rove about" conveys the idea of a careful examination. And true to this, many have carefully examined and understood these prophecies by Daniel even much more than paul and the other apostles. This certainly does not mean that God was not with the apostles.

Note also that the disciples of Christ had been with him throughout his ministry on earth but they had wrong expectations regarding the kingdom of God, for they hadnt fully grasped Jesus' teachings. Luke records: "He was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly." - Luke 19:11. To readjust their thinking, Jesus gave an illustration.

However, just before jesus' ascension, his disciples asked: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?" (Acts 1:6) Did their wrong expectation or lack of knowledge regarding this issue indicate that God wasn't with them? NO. Did Jesus reject them for asking this? NO. He explained that it was not yet the time and that they were to busy themselves with the important work of witnessing about the true messiah. (Acts 1:7,

God's perfect justice is so endearing. He searches the hearts of earthling man. If a person worships him according to his approved way, but has certain mistaken understanding or wrong expectation of prophecy, God blesses his effort and search for true knowledge. I think Jehovah's witnesses have been down-right humble and sincere to abandon sometimes cherished beliefs and understanding of the scriptures in order to align themselve more fully to the healthful teachings found in the Bible.

Let me help you
Christmas is of pagan origins and nobody knows for sure Jesus birthday. The fact that scriptures are quite hazy on the exact date means that is not important. A Christian as such is not bound by Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas, it is irrelevant for me. But I have nothing against those who chose to celebrate it. That's their problem

You on the other hand believe that ONLY Watchtower Society is Jehovah's voice on earth. Any garbage they spew is doctrine. If they write against watching movies, you won't watch movies, they say blood transfusion is eating blood, you steer clear of that. You are submitted to n organization which paulgrundy has repeatedly exposed for revising their doctrines because they found them to be rubbish.

The only truth you know is what that organization calls the truth. You are their slave

MzNelly:


Can you say for sure that you know when our Lord, Jesus Christ was born? December 25? Lol

Can you also state precisely where and when and how he asked us to celebrate his birthday?

Can you, Sir, honestly say that the way in which Christmas is celebrated today sanctifies the name of Jesus Christ?

Isn't it more of gifts, nudity, sex and nothing that corresponds to Christ?

Emusan:


Guten Abend und wie geht's?

Which language is this?

BERNIMOORE:
@MZNelly
How are you?

I'm good You?

vooks:
Let me help you
Christmas is of pagan origins and nobody knows for sure Jesus birthday. The fact that scriptures are quite hazy on the exact date means that is not important. A Christian as such is not bound by Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas, it is irrelevant for me. But I have nothing against those who chose to celebrate it. That's their problem

You on the other hand believe that ONLY Watchtower Society is Jehovah's voice on earth. Any garbage they spew is doctrine. If they write against watching movies, you won't watch movies, they say blood transfusion is eating blood, you steer clear of that. You are submitted to n organization which paulgrundy has repeatedly exposed for revising their doctrines because they found them to be rubbish.

The only truth you know is what that organization calls the truth. You are their slave

I am a slave to Jehovah.
I don't blindly follow what they say.
I make sure it has Scriptural backing.

I don't understand how this is anyone's headache, tho.

Can you tell me the last time you differed with Watchtower Society on ANY issue?

MzNelly:


I am a slave to Jehovah.
I don't blindly follow what they say.
I make sure it has Scriptural backing.

I don't understand how this is anyone's headache, tho.

vooks:
Can you tell me the last time you differed with Watchtower Society on ANY issue?

They've given me NO reason to do so.
I'll keep you updated when they do.

PaulGrundy has given you enough reasons
Like he said,the indoctrinated will defend their garbage with their lives

MzNelly:


They've given me NO reason to do so.
I'll keep you updated when they do.

vooks:
PaulGrundy has given you enough reasons
Like he said,the indoctrinated will defend their garbage with their lives

Okay, Sir.

true2god:
Which language is this?

German.

where is MzNelly

BERNIMOORE:

History doesnt favour Gods prophets like Moses too, does that makes him a false prophet? hope will you add that to your book!

Tell me how Moses change in his teaching about God

I wonder how JWs reason because how can the FOUNDER teach WORSHIPPING of Jesus and his followers called such teaching an idolatry?

My main concern is this, Jehovah hates idolatry, THEN why will Jehovah allow Russell to die as idolatry when it is Holyspirit Himself that is directing Russell?

vooks:

Except this is not knowledge but DOCTRINE from God's only voice on earth. The question then is how can we have ANY confidence in any of their current junk? What if that changes? What if they discover they were wrong on the identity of the 144,0000? What if they discover that NWT is a piece of BS?

The changing doctrines means this body is not reliable and as such a genuine truth seeker should not be bound by their pronouncements

biblespeaks and bernimore are the same handle please take note. i had already exposed him in this thread below.

https://www.nairaland.com/1990742/bernimore-truthislight-canticles-loveroftruth-biblespeaks


btw where is paulGrundy?

Emusan:


German.

where is MzNelly

Right here.

Is there a problem, Sir?

Yooguyz:


biblespeaks and bernimore are the same handle please take note. i had already exposed him in this thread below.

https://www.nairaland.com/1990742/bernimore-truthislight-canticles-loveroftruth-biblespeaks


btw where is paulGrundy?

You amuse me.

MzNelly:


Can you say for sure that you know when our Lord, Jesus Christ was born? December 25? Lol

Can you also state precisely where and when and how he asked us to celebrate his birthday?

Can you, Sir, honestly say that the way in which Christmas is celebrated today sanctifies the name of Jesus Christ?

Isn't it more of gifts, nudity, sex and nothing that corresponds to Christ?

No one knows for sure the specific date of Jesus' death, but I don't see anything wrong with devoting a specific date to. Celebrate Jesus' birth. If there are so many wrong stuffs happening on that day, its because it has been hijacked by the wrong people. Christainity has been hijacked by the wrong people, charlatans, fraudsters and fakes. Why didn't you renounce the bible because of the evil it has been used to perpetuate?

Can you now see the weakness in your logic?

MzNelly:


I am a slave to Jehovah.
I don't blindly follow what they say.
I make sure it has Scriptural backing.

I don't understand how this is anyone's headache, tho.

you know! I love you for something else, you are not easily swayed and you firmly rooted in your religion

Don't let anybody take that away from you. People like you are like the berean christains Paul talked who goes back, and confirm what they've learnt or heard to see if its true.

The watchtower says that true knowledge leads to everlasting life. In order to have a broader knowledge about watchtower society, I would love you to visit. http://jwfacts.com/

I must warn you! Some articles in that site is highly critical of the society which you may find offensive.
Click on only the- topics of interest -

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/interesting-watchtower-topics.php

And-doctrine-

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/questionable-watchtower-doctrine.php

But avoid -scandals- link. Ok


Its articles are based on facts that you could go and verify independently to see if its true.

Please promise me you would visit that site.

To the best of my knowledge, there are characters in the bible who made mistakes and god did not condemn them for such wrongdoings. What God does is to correct them and show them the right way , in his own way and time.
There are many prophets, anointed kings, wise ones, apostles, disciples, bible writers who made wrong moves or had wrong beliefs about God ,his ways and directives, but in due course they were corrected with better knowledge and they changed.

The questions to be asked by any fellow who seeks the truth from any organization are :
1. Do they claim perfection?
2. Do they make mistakes?
3. Do they accept there mistakes?
4. Do they follow on their mistakes and seek for better understanding of the bible?
5. Are they trying their best , despite their imperfection in serving their God, even if death challenge their service ?
6. Are they always striving to seek better understanding of Gods word.?
7. Does individuals who give directives in the organization do it for personal gain, maybe fame or money.?
8. Do you think following any of their teachings can make you not to gain evalasting life. ?
9. What are there present beliefs and teaching.
10. Has the teaching changed over the years and why ?
11. Can they defend, using the bible their present beliefs.?
12. At what level or percentage can you place their effort on the following in relation to other organizations: preaching what they know about Gods word, loving their neighbour, loving God, hating and abstaining from what is bad, not associating with bad and wicked people. ?

If you take having the holy spirit guide you as meaning that you are above mistake as an imperfect human and as an organization , then ill advise you study the scriptures more. Then use that knowledge to search for Gods means of dispensing the truth on earth today.

On a last note, what are your own beliefs and why do you believe in them?