Please has anyone heard about saminu zakariya

omofela85:
Please has anyone heard about saminu zakariya

I have no idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbZXbmoPIo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvO6DsE6UJs

[size=20pt]BRIEF BIOGRAPHY OF ALFA AGBA (TAJUL-ADAB) RTA[/size]

Great Arabic scholar and distinguished Sufi-Shaykh Alfa Agba Tajul-Adab was born in Ilorin in 1885 A.D . His father, Abdul Quadri b, Salih was a deputy to the then Imam Fulani. He started his education from his father's compound. Thereafter, he suddenly left his native town without notice and did not return until after ten years, when he was an Uwaysi, that is, having no physical teacher or spiritual guide. It was said that Sheikh Abdul~Qadir Jaelani was his Master & Teacher in Ruuh/Spirit during this 10 years of absence. What an Enigma he was! "His real names are: Sheikh Muhammad Jami'hu Labeeb, aka (Alfa) Taju~l~Adab. He also had his own tareeqah under quadriyyah order and (had) ilham (divinely bestowed knowledge formula) of his own. He wrote books on different courses such as Nahwu and Sarfu (Arabic grammar), all in poetry and the one he used to prove himself as the most knowledgeable of his time (Adidi). The books aren't less than fifty which can be found with the descendant scholars of Shaykh Tajul-Adab.


During his life time He was put to test by all the Ulama'a of and they all agreed to his divine knowledge (Ilm~Laduniyah) whereby he was authentically confirmed that "He was an Absorbed Mystic (Majzoob), Astute Teacher & was one of the Unseen Epithets/Personages amongst Saints (Rijaal Al~Ghaeb)"
Sheikh Tajul~Adab taught his pupils for many hours a day, to the extent that he spits blood after haven spoken too much to students. The young student 'Shaykh Kamal~deen Al Adab' saw his teacher's sufferings/toil and he felt sorry and was crying (out of his love for his teacher), after which Alfa Taju's wife reported the issue. Alfa Tajul-Adab made enquiry as to why the young kamal was crying, and he said: It’s your toil and labor on us (students), and moreover, I don’t understand the lessons.
The mystico~estatic saintly teacher was very impressed by the sheikh’s love for him, and he told him to come along with him and gave him meat out of his meal and told him he’ll never forget all he learnt.”

Sheikh Tajul- Adaby was an Imam of Great Mystics from all over the world in the Mystico~Divine realm, and he once told the young ‘kamaal’ to make ablution and he took him to that Mosque in the mystico~divine realm, and the boy was astounded to see Saints/Awliyyaa of different races and backgrounds there. Imam Tajul-Adab stepped forward (as the Imam/Leader of the group of saints), and told sheikh Kamaal to stay beside him to pray. After the prayer session, the Imam said: My people, this is the boy I have been mentioning to you (all). He made each and every one of them to pray for him. Sheikh Kamaal was reported to have said: “Alfa Agba mu mi lo ibi tii tii kirun, osi ko mi bii tii kii (Alfa Agba/Grand Shaykh {Taju al~Adab} took me to where he prays {in the divine realms of the most high}, and he taught me how he prays there)”. Alfa Agba also once said that if he successfully takes someone to the midst of the saints (i.e. in their prayer place), that person automatically becomes one of them.


It was also said that when Alfa Taju wanted to pass on (he was in his 30s then), he was on his death bed and Sheikh Kamaal sat beside him. The Grand Sheikh kept stirring at the other side and also at this side (where his boy kamaal was). Alfa Agba said (narrating what he was seeing): Here is the River of Kaothar (in Paradise) and my wives presented to me. And nothing else is stopping me from moving ahead except the fact that, I know Kamaal will have many enemies. He kept inquiring (spiritually) whether the boy was going to be victorious, and when he got the information as to the CERTAINTY OF VICTORY, he bid them farewell and passed on-------Confirmed and narrated by Sheikh Abdul~Ganiyy Aboto in the Funeral Lecture video of Sheikh Kamal~deen Al~Adaby (not at all in exact words).


[size=17pt]Sheikh Abdul Raheem Ameenullahi Abata also stated that: Alfa Agba told sheikh Kamaal to hold on to Suratul An’aam, verses one to three, and that he shouldn’t stop reciting it till he leaves the surface of the Earth. The Prophet related that 70,000 Angels descended with Angel Gabriel when he was coming with these three verses. Out of my numerical enthusiasm &eagerness to learn, when I heard the above statement by Alfa Agba, I started to make numerical investigation &found out that the three verses had 165 Arabic alphabets exactly &that is the numerical value of LAA ILAHA ILA LLAH[/size]

[size=15pt]That interprets the fact that Surat al An’aam, verses 1 to 3 is a very strong khutba and exegesis of Laa ilaha illaa llah (for those that are Raasikh fii~l~Ilm {May Allah make us like them}). That now gave me more proofs to the ones I had before that Alfa Agba (Sheikh Taaju Al~Adab) was indeed an Imaam/Epithet of Gnostics.[/size] May Allah grant us the baraka of Pristine Saints and Sincere worshipers of Allah, Ameen! He died at the age of 33 'thirty-three 'JALLA' (adad al~jalla - Abjad "ABAJADA" Number of Magestic attributes}), he was buried in the palace of the Alake of Egba Land, Ogun State, Nigeria and also was the Mentors of Sheik Adam Abdullah Al~Ilory RTA Ajmaheen"---- Narated by Sheikh Abdul Raheem Ameenullahi Abata in the Funeral Lecture video of Sheikh Kamal~deen Al~Adaby (but not in exact words):


MIRACLES (KARAAMAT)AND INTERCESSORY GRANTS OF PRISTINE SAINTS

There's no iota of doubt about the fact that genuine saints have intercessory grants from Allah. What comes to the mind afterward is how to know the real saints and whether he/she has truly been granted intercessory power or not. Indeed, Uways was a Qutb (Spiritual Pole/Axis/Pillar) of Qaran and of the Muslim Ummah in general.

* He was the first scholar to introduce syllabus system, prescribed text books for learning in the field of Arabic teaching in Yoruba land.

* Among his students are: Shaikh Zakariyya b. Busairi, Yahya Qalansuwi, Muzamilu from Agbaji and Muhammad Kamaludin who later continued the work of his teacher and upgraded the school to a modern taste.

* Tajul-Adab had many prose and poetry works in Arabic. He had composed didactic poem on sarf (morphology) and his magnum-opus is known as Shagrab or ‘Adid.

* He died in 1922. He is mentioned in Lam'hatul baluri of Shaikh Adam Abdullah Al-Ilory.

Additional Facts about Alfa Tajul-Adab;


* He was referred to as 'Alfa Agba (Grand Scholar)'
* There are speculations that he died @ 33yrs old (to be confirmed).
* He was an enigmatic mystic, and renowned for numerous miracles.
* After graduation, he gave special names to his students, for example;
Taju l Mu'min
Taju l Aarifeen
Tajdeen
Taju s Saaliheen
Mufti d Deen
Zaynu d Deen
Kamaaludeen,
etc

Sheikh Kamaludeen (one of his students) later became the Grand Scholar of Ilorin, and immortalized his teacher's legacy (i.e. Adabiyyah Islamic Institute).


* Alfa Tajul-Adab later moved out of Ilorin, and was buried at the palace of Ake at Abeokuta, Ogun state.

* Alfa Agba, whom brought the modern system of Islamic education tutored both young and old...day and night (the old men would come at night, so that people wouldn't see notice them).

* According to Shaikh Adam Abdullah Al-Ilory, the Islamic sciences were all learnt/taught on sand in the old days. But, Alfa Tajul-Adab introduced learning on sheet of paper and that included illustrations with diagrams.

* Alfa Agba teaches to the extent that he coughs out blood (i.e. After long hours of teaching).

* He knew many branches of esoteric and exoteric knowledge, and was brave with it.

* He belonged to the Uwaysi classification of scholars and sufis. He wasn't known to have any teacher.

* It is said that Shaykh Abdul-Qadir Al-Jaylani was his teacher (in the ghayb/unseen).

* THE KARAAMAT (MIRACLE) BY ALFA AGBA WITH HIS DECEASED WIFE!


Alfa TajuL-Adab was an itinerant teacher and preacher. He was once on his missionary journey, and his wife passed on. Before he returned, they had buried his wife. When he returned, he enquired where the grave was, and he was informed, after which he asked for lamp and left for the grave spot. It took long before Alfa returned from the grave site and he was sweating profusely. On his return, he said: "Onaa fee dii fun die nii. Awa ni kaa kiliya onaa fun (She had a little itch on her way. And we decided to clear the road for her)"... Allahu Akbar!!! Narated by Sheikh Abdul Raheem Ameenullahi Abata in the Funeral Lecture video of Sheikh Kamal~deen Al~Adaby.


This source is very reliable, as Sheikh Abdul Raheem Abata was the choicest of the students of Sheikh Kamaludeen Al~Adaby, and Sheikh Kamaldeen was also the choicest of Sheikh Tajul Adab's students. More over, Sheikh Abdul Raheem's father was a very close student of Sheikh Tajul~Adab, whom followed the Sheikh every hours and seconds. This can be classified under the vast topic of Karaamat al~Awliyyaa (Miracles of Saints). The real awliyya don't do these for hales but, it comes naturally as a result of situation of things and their spiritual positions with Allah.


May Allah illuminate their graves with Light upon Light, Ameen!!!

May Allah sanctify their secrets (Qadassa-llahu sirrahum)...Ameen

Prof. Elhadj Bachir Olanshile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKTYB7WbGKw&index=82&list=WL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFeBPOqLVG8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWCQ9DTP6rc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSBz6saFyxE

Gender Philosophy In Islam


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFbEs5TwJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYyCRS1pPyg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsCa4W3ESL8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCazw4pwj4E

[size=15pt]Mujizah & Karamoh[/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhoVBD1NDDY

[size=15pt]TRANSGRESSION IN ISLAM[/size] -- ASEJU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-xpazdDpKU

Abosi (Hypocrisy)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKTZbjhKkjA

[size=15pt]Emi {Soul}[/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq-dMgP-PZo

[size=15pt]as-sihir kufrun - Importance Of Ayat Kursiyu[/size]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeX_2gARNYQ

[size=15pt]Jum'ah 12/2/2016 NYC[/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTYnhNxMD1U&t=50s

[size=20pt]"sahaba are sufis" 17-20mins[/size]



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1_enNAdTas

[size=20pt]The Sunnah - An Integral Part of The Shari'ah - PT (1/2)[/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKTBbQ1CK28


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igejmOTSj70

This second part ^^^ is really for usermane

Empiree:
[size=20pt]The Sunnah - An Integral Part of The Shari'ah - PT (1/2)[/size]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKTBbQ1CK28


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igejmOTSj70

This second part ^^^ is really for usermane

Peace Empiree. I don't usually watch lengthy traditional Muslim videos like these. The reason being that I am very busy fellow who have a lot of priorities and every minute of my day counts. These days I just can't seem to be bothered about a traditional Muslim(sunni/shia) preacher. Even in my days as a traditionalist, most traditional preachers never appealed to me, even those i never disagreed with. I never felt that urge to follow their lectures. And make no mistake, I was raised in a observant Sunni household, and before my transformation to a Quran alone adherent, I would have agreed with everything the speaker mentioned, including amputation for petty theft. This is not the first time you call me out specifically on your videos, but for some reason I cannot see, I found myself watching it. Here are my responses

The speaker, didn't state anything new or intellectually stimulating to me. He tried too much to validate the shariah and sunnah that he began to sound ridiculous.
Shariah
This, according to the speaker is divine law. Yet he admitted he 'll not implement amputation if given the choice, but since it is decreed by God, he has no choice but to accept it. Like many traditionalists, he is insinuating that this law in inappropriate although he 'll blindly accept it. You can't truly believe without conviction. You can't come inviting us to what you deem sharia if you clearly have issues with it. I accept the sharia of the Quran, but not simply because it is from God, but because I am convinced by it.
Most of you traditionalists cannot boast of that. Some have issues with killing apostates, others with stoning adulterers or gays, some with slavery, some with child marriage, many with polygamy, e.t.c. You try to hide these insecurities with sharia, call others to it even though deep down you see the problems with it. This isn't honest.

Mr Speaker then goes on to call disbelievers in the shariah, kafir. He clearly ignores the multiple verses that reveal anyone who accept God alone and observe righteousness is a believer. Hijab, jihad, he thinks these physical things are what will guarantee eternal life.

Hadith
Our speaker like all Hadith proponents invoke the Quranic phrase "Obey Allah and obey the messenger". He says obey the messenger mean obey the Hadith, not the Quran. If God decrees in the Quran and Muhammad decrees outside the Quran, then Muhammad is another Lord beside the God of the Quran. Gross violation of monotheistic principle. God never shares His authority of legislation with anyone. God alone legislates and decrees, the messenger only delivers(Quran 5:99) and he does not share God's authority in legislating. Monotheism is deeper than you traditionalists understand.
Obey the messenger is an allusion to those who claim to obey God, whilst rejecting Muhammad's message. To get these people to the Quran, it is not enough to call them to God, they already claim to obey God. The need to call them to the messenger.


The speaker said the sunnah encompass all Muhammad's deeds, speech and even actions he approved or did not condemn. No wonder Hadith books are filled with repulsive tales of Muhammad's sexual life. Before the revelation, Muhammad like all men was flawed. Receiving the message of course improved him, but it didn't make him perfect. Messengers of God whist being role models for believers are not perfect manuals or substitute for the scripture.
The speaker asked the common question Quran alone Muslims get from traditionalist; If the Quran is sufficient for guidance, why do we need the messenger? Well we could as well reverse the question, if the Hadith already explains the Quran, why do we need the Quran? Why do we all have Quran copies on our shelves, reciting it daily while we don't even have a page of Hadith in the house.

He also quoted Quran 4:65 to corroborate his proof for Hadith. Forty verses later, in the same chapter, it is revealed that Muhammad has to judge with the book. He cannot come up with his own judgement without Quranic confirmation. The word "Hikmah" he cites as Hadith is easily defined as the Quran given that the Quran describe itself as hikmah in multiple verses.

If Muhammad does not interpret the Quran, which interpretation do we follow? He asked this question. Well, we simply follow what we find most morally and rationally convincing. This is the recommendation of the Quran, I just can't recall the specific verse. Of course, this will lead to disagreements on interpretation but to every one his religion, none will be held accountable for another.

Our speaker also treated the so called five pillars of Islam, referring to them as justification for Hadith. He exposed himself here, asking questions like "when are the time for hajj and salat according to Quran?" These questions are clearly answered in the Quran, traditionalists don't see these answers despite singing the Quran daily because they already got their answers from elsewhere. Salat and Hajj are not as formulaic as traditionalists understand. If details like number of rakas or prostrations of omission are not found in the Quran, perhaps it mean that these details don't matter to God, not necessarily because the Quran is not sufficient for performing these rituals

Lastly, our speaker narrated a Hadith in which a sahaba prove the necessity of Hadith. He then goes on to exalt the sahabas as the bravest and most righteous generation of Muslims, whom Muslims ought to look up to. I got to say I read a beautiful book by Dr Ahmed Mansur lately, a major critique of the so called companions of Muhammad. Traditionalists teach that these companions are the best there is and the best there will ever be. It is not true. Most of them turned astray after Muhammad, turned Islam into a political weapon and a justification for all their atrocities including offensive jihad and slavery. I don't see these people as exemplary Muslims. Read the Quran 25:30, how ever you choose to interpret it, it is a prophecy that Muhammad's own people will desert the Quran. To assume that the preceding generations to be guide for latter generation is a satanic trap that every community of believers; Jews, Christians and Muslims have fallen into.

usermane:


Peace Empi.ree.

Walaikum Salaam. How are you. You scarce perhaps. You are still perambulating from your writeup. I only wanted you to listen to his speech for just one reason. To capture ESSENCE of sunnah we have been talking about. I dont necessarily agree with everything he said.

And make no mistake, I was raised in a observant Sunni household, and before my transformation to a Quran alone adherent, I would have agreed with everything the speaker mentioned, including amputation for petty theft. This is not the first time you call me out specifically on your videos, but for some reason I cannot see, I found myself watching it. Here are my responses

See underlined, if you listened to his part 1 above, he raised that. Part 1, he simply asked people what people think when they hear the word "SHARI'A"?. So people gave responses like you just did. See, knowledge evolves slowly throughout generations. It depends on understanding. For instance, Quran simply prescribed amputation for theft. But Qur'an does not give details. Hence, there is a need for muslims to see how prophet(SAW) applied it(did he apply it on poor man). If we found none in history, we use wisdom. Quran does not differentiate what levels of theft. Wisdom is look into accused financial status before carrying out the judgment (if convicted). If it is hungry poor man, what sense does it make to cut his hand?. So you dont just talk like non-muslims. Thats how you sound. It is like in some part of US, it is punishable offence to grow your own crops in your backyard but they do not say why you can't. To many in NIgerians, this doesnt make sense. But in reality, if someone gets caught, possibility of not being persecuted exist. They can simply give first warning. But folks in nija would say "it is punishable to grow crops i your backyard". That's like jumping the gun. Thats what you just did when you said @underlined. Fact is, there is a process before carrying out hudud. You sound like punishment is for the poor. Will you be happy if they apply it on Nigerian politicians instead of giving them immunity?. Bringing verses of Quran together shows amputation is for BIG theft or something of big value (qintar). Not for petty things. A poor man may only deserves this punishment if he becomes career thief after being given respites.

The speaker, didn't state anything new or intellectually stimulating to me. He tried too much to validate the shariah and sunnah that he began to sound ridiculous.
Shariah
This, according to the speaker is divine law. Yet he admitted he 'll not implement amputation if given the choice, but since it is decreed by God, he has no choice but to accept it. Like many traditionalists, he is insinuating that this law in inappropriate although he 'll blindly accept it. You can't truly believe without conviction. You can't come inviting us to what you deem sharia if you clearly have issues with it. I accept the sharia of the Quran, but not simply because it is from God, but because I am convinced by it.

If I tell you i don't understand what he meant here am lying. You don't understand. He's simply saying most men today would not go for amputation if given option. They would prefer jail time or something else for the offender. Definitely, if someone steals, proper reaction from people with at least 1% sanity is to punish the offender. For instance, a man steals a cell phone in nigeria and runs away. What happens?. Do the people let him go or chase him and plonk tire round his neck and burn him?. The man was basically giving indirect speech. He's telling you he would submit to judgment set by Allah without questioning. Question now is, do you believe in amputation for theft?. Remember this is directly mentioned in the Quran. And since you claim to believe in Quran alone, it is upon you.

If Muhammad does not interpret the Quran, which interpretation do we follow? He asked this question.
Well, we simply follow what we find most morally and
rationally convincing. This is the recommendation of
the Quran, I just can't recall the specific verse. Of course, this will lead to disagreements on interpretation but to every one his religion, none will be held accountable for another.

Found the verse: Quran 39:18

usermane:


Most of you traditionalists cannot boast of that.

Question is, do you believe amputation for theft Divine as Quran clearly mentions?. Forget about application.

Some have issues with killing apostates, others with stoning adulterers or gays, some with slavery, some with child marriage, many with polygamy, e.t.c. You try to hide these insecurities with sharia, call others to it even though deep down you see the problems with it. This isn't honest.

Everything here is not directly implemented. I don't think it makes sense to lump everybody together.

*Apostates - there is no law in neither hadith nor Quran to punish people for this. There is however punishment for treason. This is death. This is punishment recognized worldwide for this offence. This is why its controversial when discussed within Islam. Quran clearly declares "NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION". This phrase does not refer to Muslims at all. Muslim is bound by judgement, obligations in Islam bcuz Quran says "ENTER INTO ISLAM COMPLETELY".

So a Muslim can not say 'I don't have to pray salat, zakat, hajj, ramadan or believe in Qadar' or disbelief in hudud.

"LA IKRA FI DIN" does not protect this. It only protects non Muslims. Which means usermane who claims to believe in Quran MUST offer all these obligatory practices as established. Even worst, lazy Muslims do not dispute these obligatories


*STONING, myself have problem with this. Not bcuz it's simply not in the Quran but bcuz of the implications it carries along. That's, its chain has nothing to do with prophet himself but it's recorded in the Hadith. It's implication is, it's in conflict with protection of Quran. That's the main reason I reject it. However, I believe it's Allah's Law legislated in Old Laws. So the speaker saying whoever doesn't believe this is kafir. ...that is his opinion. If he had mentioned rejecting amputation, lashes etc that are mentioned in the Quran, he would have been right.


*Gay, we know for sure this is punishable offence. You can't deny it. If you do, it means you condone it. Truly, Quran does not prescribed punishment but it gives room for it. So this is a matter of ijtihad which varies from each Muslim country. If Saudi for instance prescribes death for it, it's none of anyone's business. Malaysia may say its punishable offence up to 10 years behind bars. That's their final and none of anyone's business. Etc.


*Child marriage. You simply have to difine this cuz it means different thing to people

*Polygamy, is not a legislation but it's legitimate in Islam. I don't know what your problem is. If I practice it, I follow Quran. If I choose to remain mono, im not sinning. But it becomes problematic if anyone denies it. That's like contending Allah's statement. This may lead to kufur.

*Slavery, really don't know what you want with this one.

Mr Speaker then goes on to call disbelievers in the shariah, kafir.

Yes. You just need to be precised. If anyone disbelieves in Shariah i:e things that are legislated like shahada, daily salat, qadar, ramadan, hajj, zakat. Also hudud mentioned in the Quran like lashes, amputation, and whatever punishment mentioned in the Quran, such a person is a disbeliever. These are basic shariah(rigid and clear without interpretation). Other aspect of shariah that fall under ijtihad, qiyas don't make one kafir like gay issue I just talked about bcus these are flexible. Countries may change law.

Empiree:
Question is, do you believe amputation for theft Divine as Quran clearly mentions?. Forget about application.

We are not going back there anymore, I had a lengthy discourse with you over my non-literal interpretation of the verse last year. How could you forget that. I don't have to deal with amputation, as I don't believe in that interpretation.

Everything here is not directly implemented. I don't think it makes sense to lump everybody together.

It doesn't change anything. It is part of sharia, implemented or not implemented.

*Apostates - there is no law in neither hadith nor Quran to punish people for this. There is however punishment for treason. This is death. This is punishment recognized worldwide for this offence. This is why its controversial when discussed within Islam. Quran clearly declares "NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION". This phrase does not refer to Muslims at all. Muslim is bound by judgement, obligations in Islam bcuz Quran says "ENTER INTO ISLAM COMPLETELY".

Dude the hadith on killing apostate are straight forward, sahih and mention nothing about the condition under which apostates are to be killed. "Kill anyone who change his faith", No more, No less.

So a Muslim can not say 'I don't have to pray salat, zakat, hajj, ramadan or believe in Qadar' or disbelief in hudud.

What are you saying? Islam is a personal religion between one and his Lord. An act of worship is rewarded based upon intention, if a Muslim does not believe an act of worship is compulsory, he get no reward if the state or police compels him to observe it. No compulsion in religion covers everyone.

"LA IKRA FI DIN" does not protect this. It only protects non Muslims. Which means usermane who claims to believe in Quran MUST offer all these obligatory practices as established. Even worst, lazy Muslims do not dispute these obligatories

No one is disputing these practices, the question here is; can a Muslim be forced to observe them by the state or police of the Muslim community? This is where the verse on "No compulsion in religion" fall in.

*STONING, myself have problem with this. Not bcuz it's simply not in the Quran but bcuz of the implications it carries along. That's, its chain has nothing to do with prophet himself but it's recorded in the Hadith. It's implication is, it's in conflict with protection of Quran. That's the main reason I reject it. However, I believe it's Allah's Law legislated in Old Laws. So the speaker saying whoever doesn't believe this is kafir. ...that is his opinion. If he had mentioned rejecting amputation, lashes etc that are mentioned in the Quran, he would have been right.


*Gay, we know for sure this is punishable offence. You can't deny it. If you do, it means you condone it. Truly, Quran does not prescribed punishment but it gives room for it. So this is a matter of ijtihad which varies from each Muslim country. If Saudi for instance prescribes death for it, it's none of anyone's business. Malaysia may say its punishable offence up to 10 years behind bars. That's their final and none of anyone's business. Etc.


*Child marriage. You simply have to difine this cuz it means different thing to people

*Polygamy, is not a legislation but it's legitimate in Islam. I don't know what your problem is. If I practice it, I follow Quran. If I choose to remain mono, im not sinning. But it becomes problematic if anyone denies it. That's like contending Allah's statement. This may lead to kufur.

My problem? Ask you sunni sisters

*Slavery, really don't know what you want with this one.




[b]Mr Speaker then goes on to call disbelievers in the shariah, kafir.Yes. You just need to be precised. If anyone disbelieves in Shariah i:e things that are legislated like shahada, daily salat, qadar, ramadan, hajj, zakat. Also hudud mentioned in the Quran like lashes, amputation, and whatever punishment mentioned in the Quran, such a person is a disbeliever. These are basic shariah(rigid and clear without interpretation). Other aspect of shariah that fall under ijtihad, qiyas don't make one kafir like gay issue I just talked about bcus these are flexible. Countries may change law.

Are you saying that anyone today who does not accept Muhammad as messenger is doom for hell? Seriously Empiree, I find you perception of Islam to very mundane.

usermane:
He clearly ignores the multiple verses that reveal anyone who accept God alone and observe righteousness is a believer. Hijab, jihad, he thinks these physical things are what will guarantee eternal life.

Am sorry, i think you are deficient in your understanding of religious text. Believe in God alone, yes, that makes one a believer. Other things you mentioned are legislation. Hijab is mandatory but if a muslima does not wear it in contempt against order given by God in the QURAN, she is still a believer but she is simply sinning. She is disobedient believer. Very simple. Just like a Muslim who deals drugs. He is still Muslim but disobedient one.

Hadith
Our speaker like all Hadith proponents invoke the Quranic phrase "Obey Allah and obey the messenger". He says obey the messenger mean obey the Hadith, not the Quran. If God decrees in the Quran and Muhammad decrees outside the Quran, then Muhammad is another Lord beside the God of the Quran. Gross violation of monotheistic principle. God never shares His authority of legislation with anyone. God alone legislates and decrees, the messenger only delivers(Quran 5:99) and he does not share God's authority in legislating. Monotheism is deeper than you traditionalists understand.

underlined is ABSOLUTELY correct. Forget about whether a hadith is sahih, daif or fabricated. That's another issue. Bolded, you can give example?

Obey the messenger is an allusion to those who claim to obey God, whilst rejecting Muhammad's message. To get these people to the Quran, it is not enough to call them to God, they already claim to obey God. The need to call them to the messenger.

humm

The speaker said the sunnah encompass all Muhammad's deeds, speech and even actions he approved or did not condemn.

Yes. When you were in what you called "orthodox Sunni Islam", what was the definition of hadith growing up as you were taught?. They defined hadith as SAYINGS, DEEDS, SILENT APPROVAL of the prophet(SAW) right?. Here again, forget about categories of hadith. That's irrelevant here.

No wonder Hadith books are filled with repulsive tales of Muhammad's sexual life. Before the revelation, Muhammad like all men was flawed. Receiving the message of course improved him, but it didn't make him perfect. Messengers of God whist being role models for believers are not perfect manuals or substitute for the scripture.

Can you please give example of his "flaws" before revelation?

The speaker asked the common question Quran alone Muslims get from traditionalist; If the Quran is sufficient for guidance, why do we need the messenger? Well we could as well reverse the question, if the Hadith already explains the Quran, why do we need the Quran? Why do we all have Quran copies on our shelves, reciting it daily while we don't even have a page of Hadith in the house.

How is it possible for you to know history, reasons for revelations of certain verses in the Qur'an?

He also quoted Quran 4:65 to corroborate his proof for Hadith. Forty verses later, in the same chapter, it is revealed that Muhammad has to judge with the book. He cannot come up with his own judgement without Quranic confirmation. The word "Hikmah" he cites as Hadith is easily defined as the Quran given that the Quran describe itself as hikmah in multiple verses.

What is Hikma according to you?. Well, Hikman is "understanding of religious" text i:e Qur'an. In another word, WISDOM. For instance, as I have discussed previously concerning amputation. If a poor man steals, leader should use hikma before carrying out punishment. Hikma here could mean reviewing his economic situation. So we see hikma in many places in the Sunnah where a man peed in the masjid.Did the prophet call for his head?. No, he gently advised him it is inappropriate. And many situations like this.Today, wisdom is missing among muslims but knowledge is rampant. Everyone is 'Sheikh' today but devoids of hikman. Same wisdom was given to all other prophets and messangers. Like Isa Ibn Maryam(as), he was given hikma and he applied it when a woman accused of adultery was brought to him by the Rabbi. He applied hikma. So you dont understand Qur'an at all.

If Muhammad does not interpret the Quran, which interpretation do we follow? He asked this question. Well, we simply follow what we find most morally and rationally convincing. This is the recommendation of the Quran, I just can't recall the specific verse. Of course, this will lead to disagreements on interpretation but to every one his religion, none will be held accountable for another.

In another word, homosexual would be morally just according to you bcuz Quran does not specify punishment for it?. This verse you quoted to justify your opinion simply doesnt reason with you. Bro, you only thread religion. You dont now it. You are super literalist. You only thread religion you dont now it. Qur'an exhorts us to think. Not only to think but to think things out. "Li qaumi yatafakkarun" You dont think. Sorry. Qur'an is for the intellectuals.

Our speaker also treated the so called five pillars of Islam, referring to them as justification for Hadith. He exposed himself here, asking questions like "when are the time for hajj and salat according to Quran?" These questions are clearly answered in the Quran, traditionalists don't see these answers despite singing the Quran daily because they already got their answers from elsewhere. Salat and Hajj are not as formulaic as traditionalists understand. If details like number of rakas or prostrations of omission are not found in the Quran, perhaps it mean that these details don't matter to God, not necessarily because the Quran is not sufficient for performing these rituals

Can you please answer it using Qur'an alone?. Underlined, really?. You think the prophet was just carrying the Book around and reading it to his companions?. You are fantastic. You think this is Bible?

Lastly, our speaker narrated a Hadith in which a sahaba prove the necessity of Hadith. He then goes on to exalt the sahabas as the bravest and most righteous generation of Muslims, whom Muslims ought to look up to.

Yes, they struggled with their lives and wealth. Qur'an praises them Tawba:100

I got to say I read a beautiful book by Dr Ahmed Mansur lately, a major critique of the so called companions of Muhammad. Traditionalists teach that these companions are the best there is and the best there will ever be. It is not true. Most of them turned astray after Muhammad, turned Islam into a political weapon and a justification for all their atrocities including offensive jihad and slavery. I don't see these people as exemplary Muslims. Read the Quran 25:30, how ever you choose to interpret it, it is a prophecy that Muhammad's own people will desert the Quran. To assume that the preceding generations to be guide for latter generation is a satanic trap that every community of believers; Jews, Christians and Muslims have fallen into.

Of course some sahaba turned on heel. Qur'an itself talks abotu hypocrites amonsgt them. However, understand that Sahaba are those who accepted Islam in teh time of the prophet (SAW) and remained muslims after him. Unless and until you can specifically mentioned names of those "sahaba" who disbelieved NOT hypocrites, i wont address this. Again, the verse 25:30 you quote could mean other thing. In the context of Quran itself it could mean people read Quran but do not understand it like you have been doing.

usermane:
It doesn't change anything. It is part of sharia, implemented or not implemented.

Your opinion. you sound like those muslims who do not differetiate fard and Sunnah

Dude the hadith on killing apostate are straight forward, sahih and mention nothing about the condition under which apostates are to be killed. "Kill anyone who change his faith", No more, No less.

You can interpret "amputation" but this has no explanation or interpretation?. dont you think you are deceiving yourself?

What are you saying? Islam is a personal religion between one and his Lord. An act of worship is rewarded based upon intention, if a Muslim does not believe an act of worship is compulsory, he get no reward if the state or police compels him to observe it. No compulsion in religion covers everyone.

Obviously there is no way of knowing if a muslim doesnt pray unless he openly declares it.. That's how he/she gets attention of authority. For fasting ramadan, there is no way of knowing except if he/she eat publicly. Even at that, there are excuses. But eating public is not wise. Same goes for zakat. So your impression that religious police would chastise them doesnt really makes sense. And i have not seen where any muslim is beat up for this. There is simply no way of knowing unless the person openly preaches against it. Then, authority has the right to step in. Like it or not. remedies for those who dont pray are crystal clear. LECTURES here and there

No one is disputing these practices, the question here is; can a Muslim be forced to observe them by the state or police of the Muslim community? This is where the verse on "No compulsion in religion" fall in.

refer up there. "No compulsion in religion" doesn't apply to Muslims

Are you saying that anyone today who does not accept Muhammad as messenger is doom for hell? Seriously E.mpiree, I find you perception of Islam to very mundane.

Yes! did the Qur'an fall from the sky?. Are the Jews who reject Jesus prophet hood not gonna be hell-bound?

Empiree:
Am sorry, i think you are deficient in your understanding of religious text. Believe in God alone, yes, that makes one a believer. Other things you mentioned are legislation. Hijab is mandatory but if a muslima does not wear it in contempt against order given by God in the QURAN, she is still a believer but she is simply sinning. She is disobedient believer. Very simple. Just like a Muslim who deals drugs. He is still Muslim but disobedient one.

So now you agree that one can deny Sharia and still be Muslim? That is great, given that only earlier, you were supporting the speaker's stance that denying sharia equal kufr

underlined is ABSOLUTELY correct. Forget about whether a hadith is sahih, daif or fabricated. That's another issue. Bolded, you can give example?

Which example? I beg. You need me to remind you of the many prohibitions and prescriptions in Hadith that cannot be found in Qur'an? Monotheism, is a very delicate subject.

humm




Yes. When you were in what you called "orthodox Sunni Islam", what was the definition of hadith growing up as you were taught?. They defined hadith as SAYINGS, DEEDS, SILENT APPROVAL of the prophet(SAW) right?. Here again, forget about categories of hadith. That's irrelevant here.



Can you please give example of his "flaws" before revelation?

Tell me about the rabbits, George. Please see Quran 48:02 and 93:07. Muhammad was never perfect and for this reason, all his words, deeds or silent approvals cannot be taken at face value.

How is it possible for you to know history, reasons for revelations of certain verses in the Qur'an?

I think I answered this question in the past. I never needed a reason for the revelation of any verse, without finding the reason within the passage containing the verse.

What is Hikma according to you?. Well, Hikman is "understanding of religious" text i:e Qur'an. In another word, WISDOM. For instance, as I have discussed previously concerning amputation. If a poor man steals, leader should use hikma before carrying out punishment. Hikma here could mean reviewing his economic situation. So we see hikma in many places in the Sunnah where a man peed in the masjid.Did the prophet call for his head?. No, he gently advised him it is inappropriate. And many situations like this.Today, wisdom is missing among muslims but knowledge is rampant. Everyone is 'Sheikh' today but devoids of hikman. Same wisdom was given to all other prophets and messangers. Like Isa Ibn Maryam(as), he was given hikma and he applied it when a woman accused of adultery was brought to him by the Rabbi. He applied hikma. So you dont understand Qur'an at all.

Thank you.

In another word, homosexual would be morally just according to you bcuz Quran does not specify punishment for it?. This verse you quoted to justify your opinion simply doesnt reason with you. Bro, you only thread religion. You dont now it. You are super literalist. You only thread religion you dont now it. Qur'an exhorts us to think. Not only to think but to think things out. "Li qaumi yatafakkarun" You dont think. Sorry. Qur'an is for the intellectuals.

Thank you, Mr.

Can you please answer it using Qur'an alone?. Underlined, really?. You think the prophet was just carrying the Book around and reading it to his companions?. You are fantastic. You think this is Bible?

Again, thank you. Your problem is you still believe in Hadith about Muhammad on flying horse to visit God and bargain the number of daily salat. You still have the understanding that salat came with Muhammad, so please, I really don't have it in me to flog the dead horse again.

Yes, they struggled with their lives and wealth. Qur'an praises them Tawba:100



Of course some sahaba turned on heel. Qur'an itself talks abotu hypocrites amonsgt them. However, understand that Sahaba are those who accepted Islam in teh time of the prophet (SAW) and remained muslims after him. Unless and until you can specifically mentioned names of those "sahaba" who disbelieved NOT hypocrites, i wont address this. Again, the verse 25:30 you quote could mean other thing. In the context of Quran itself it could mean people read Quran but do not understand it like you have been doing.

@bold. Please read and digest the verse properly. Preferably read from the 27th verse to the main verse. Yes, some sahabas have been promised paradise according to 9:100, but not all of them. Muhammad's complain in Qur'an 25:30 foretell that MOST of the his people(those he delivered the Quran to) will reject the Qur'an. This is contrary to the idea that all of Arabia embraced Islam after Muhammad.