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My Thoughts And Questions About Religion - Religion - Nairaland

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My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:07am On Dec 15, 2014
Hi friends, I don't even know if I can follow through with this and continue infinitely like I would love to do. I don't know. I only have a feeling that writing best captures what I have to say.

This page will be my questions and thoughts page.

I am not naive enough to expect that most who come to this page will abandon the faith they hold dear, but I do hope to convince my readers that many of us who walk away have not done so out of a rebellious, juvenile whim, but rather out of a careful weighing of the reasons for and against our former faith. Our decision, far from being "sad," as many of my friends and family perceive it, represents a move from unquestioning acceptance of tradition to a spirit of openness and adventure that pursues the evidence wherever it leads. We left in pursuit of truth.

A little about me: I grew up in a devoted Christian family, loving the Lord. I was devoted and zealous. I was the 'dream' child. And because I was equally brilliant, parents pointed me as an example to their kids.

Of course as I grew up, I had questions. One of the earliest I remember was asking how Cain had a wife if there were only three people on earth (Abel having died). The answer my mum gave to that and many of the innocent questions of mine at a tender age was that I should make sure I get to heaven so I can ask God myself. It didn't prove sufficient but what was a child to do otherwise?

I was a part of my school christian groups. I also remember being picked by the Children Church's teachers to preach to the entire Church congregation on Children's Sunday. It was awesome.

When I got to one of the foremost Federal Universities, I could not be more devoted. I was now into theological texts and got more than five translations of the Bible. I was a walking bible. Of course, there were no bible apps at that time. I consumed alot of religious materials, and read books by so many Christian authors. I also got into reading Islamic texts, mainly so I could know what I was talking about when I encountered Muslim apologists, and oh I was very successful with them.

With time, I was made a Pastor of one of the most vibrant fellowships on Campus. We did not only study the Greek and Hebrew renditions, we knew at heart copious parts of scriptures and could reel them out in our sleep. We were respected on Campus, not the least by the Christian community. We would argue scriptures and rattle men with our knowledge of the redemptive work of Christ and the concept of the New Creation.

As an Engineering student, I spent 3 of my 5 years being a Pastor of this fellowship.

It was after my NYSC that I came across certain comments in books that made me look twice and search further to see if what I had believed and devoted my time to were indeed true.

I have been on this journey for a while now and I can say that I have come to a stage where I can sufficiently say that I am longer a Christian or a religionist. I do not conclusively deny the existence of God, but I can totally say that nobody has given me a convincing evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Some have told me that I am angry with God. That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you are convinced does not exist in the context that I mentioned earlier. Some have said I believed wrongly, to these folks I say they know not what they sayeth.

I invite Christian readers, as well as other God-believers to consider the possibility that my apostasy is a result not of divine or diabolical deception but of a simple weighing of the evidence ... It might be that I am wrong. It might be that I have not sought God sufficiently or studied the Bible thoroughly enough or listened carefully enough to the many Christians who have admonished me ... Maybe. But the knowledge that billions of seekers have lived and died, calling out to God for some definitive revelation without ever receiving it, or receiving revelation that conflicts with the revelation others have found, contributes to my suspicion that there is no personal God who reveals himself to anyone.

One of my primary reasons for having this page is self-serving: I do not relish knowing that others consider me to be on the road to eternal damnation if I don't repent, and I want to do what I can to change their perception of those of us who do not share their faith. Yet is this self-serving endeavour reckless? If I believed it would worsen the lives of all those who follow my thoughts and questions, then yes, it would be reckless. But I am convinced that life can actually improve for those who come to understand that our earthly existence is not simply a stage, a cosmic morality play, a precursor to an eternity to come. This life is the real (and only) deal.

Enjoy...

And hey, if you look at my Nairaland history, I do love Football a lot and I'm an investment buff. I'm interested in Politics too and most of all, I love adventure. I love to travel and see new places. I'm also an eclectic reader. Who says unbelievers have a boring life? tongue

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:26am On Dec 15, 2014
"The mildest criticism of religion is also the most radical and the most devastating one.

Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or redeemers or gurus actually said or did. Still less can they hope to tell us the 'meaning' of later discoveries and developments which were, when they began, either obstructed by their religions or denounced by them. And yet—the believers still claim to know! Not just to know, but to know everything. Not just to know that god exists, and that he created and supervised the whole enterprise, but also to know what 'he' demands of us—from our diet to our observances to our sexual morality.

In other words, in a vast and complicated discussion where we know more and more about less and less, yet can still hope for some enlightenment as we proceed, one faction—itself composed of mutually warring factions—has the sheer arrogance to tell us that we already have all the essential information we need.

Such stupidity, combined with such pride, should be enough on its own to exclude 'belief' from the debate. The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species. It may be a long farewell, but it has begun and, like all farewells, should not be protracted."

~Christopher Hitchens

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 9:17am On Dec 15, 2014
it's a choice,you love God or you Reject Him,concerning the wife of cain;bible does not specifically say it only cain and abel was the son of adam,. Although Cain
does seem to be the firstborn, the text is not clear
that Abel was the second born, but only that he was
the second son. Later, the narrative indicates that
Adam and Eve produced "other sons and
daughters." So, it is possible that Adam and Eve
produced daughters between the births of Cain and
Abel. It is also likely that others sons and daughters
were produced after the birth of Abel. We don't know how old Cain and Abel were when Cain murdered his brother, but they seem to be at least young adults, since they are both engage in a trade. for their
living.

Although the period of time between the birth of
Cain and the death of Abel is not given in the Bible, it would seem that this period was probably over 100 years, since the birth of Adam's next son, Seth is said to have occurred when Adam was 130 years old. Adam and Eve could have produced many daughters during that period of time.
It is possible cain would have marry one of this sister,God caused him may have lead to this.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 9:30am On Dec 15, 2014
What has not been proven cannot be disproved. God is only an hypothesis of how everything got here. The idea of god is no certainty, this is why faith is the most cherished virtue of the religious. They do not really know if their chosen god exist, they only believe he's somewhere in the sky.

Science has not offered all the answer, but whats certain is that religion has no answer at all, it only stops you from asking the questions by telling you to have faith.

So its a good choice you have made. Life is a quest, enjoy it.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:32am On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
it's a choice,you love God or you Reject Him,concerning the wife of cain;bible does not specifically say it only cain and abel was the son of adam,. Although Cain
does seem to be the firstborn, the text is not clear
that Abel was the second born, but only that he was
the second son. Later, the narrative indicates that
Adam and Eve produced "other sons and
daughters." So, it is possible that Adam and Eve
produced daughters between the births of Cain and
Abel. It is also likely that others sons and daughters
were produced after the birth of Abel. We don't know how old Cain and Abel were when Cain murdered his brother, but they seem to be at least young adults, since they are both engage in a trade. for their
living.

Although the period of time between the birth of
Cain and the death of Abel is not given in the Bible, it would seem that this period was probably over 100 years, since the birth of Adam's next son, Seth is said to have occurred when Adam was 130 years old. Adam and Eve could have produced many daughters during that period of time.
It is possible cain would have marry one of this sister,God caused him may have lead to this.

Meaning that God allowed In.ce.st? According to the biblical scriptures, In.ce.st is forbidden.

“Never have sexual intercourse with anyone related to you by blood. I am the Lord." Leviticus 18:6 (God's Word Translation)

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 9:50am On Dec 15, 2014
When you guys want to knock 'Religion', please specify the Religion you are knocking, so that we don't waste our time clicking on a topic that does not concern us.

Furthermore, you cannot condemn all religion; (as your title implies); if you are disenchanted with just one. It's like I have a bad experience with one vehicle and I conclude that all models of all types of vehicle are useless.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 9:58am On Dec 15, 2014
joseph1013:


Meaning that God allowed In.ce.st? According to the biblical scriptures, In.ce.st is forbidden.

“Never have sexual intercourse with anyone related to you by blood. I am the Lord." Leviticus 18:6 (God's Word Translation)


all of these events
happened before the law was given. According to the
Apostle Paul, when there is no law, there can be no
violation of the law or sin. So, since the law against
incest was not given until thousands of years later,
there was no theological problem with Cain marrying his sister.however,God is all knowing so he know what cain did was wrong,like I say earlier God caused to him may have lead to this.

You are free to choose to love God or hate him, it your choice.thank you.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 10:03am On Dec 15, 2014
Abuamam:
When you guys want to knock 'Religion', please specify the Religion you are knocking, so that we don't waste our time clicking on a topic that does not concern us.

Furthermore, you cannot condemn all religion; (as your title implies); if you are disenchanted with just one. It's like I have a bad experience with one vehicle and I conclude that all models of all types of vehicle are useless.
what is this nonsense? Dint you read were the op say he was a christian before he started asking question? Maby you just want to mark your presence.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 10:05am On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
all of these events
happened before the law was given. According to the
Apostle Paul, when there is no law, there can be no
violation of the law or sin. So, since the law against
incest was not given until thousands of years later,
there was no theological problem with Cain marrying his sister.however,God is all knowing so he know what cain did was wrong,like I say earlier God caused to him may have lead to this.

You are free to choose to love God or hate him, it your choice.thank you.

great, so those who have never head of the bible will not be judged right? they will just go straight to heaven even if they are criminals? Am talking about those whom your gospel never got to in the past before they died.

since

malvisguy212: all of these events
happened before the law was given. According to the
Apostle Paul, when there is no law, there can be no
violation of the law or sin.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 10:13am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


great, so those who have never head of the bible will not be judged right? they will just go straight to heaven even if they are criminals? Am talking about those whom your gospel never got to in the past before they died.

since

they will here the gospel,as long as the world is not yet come to end,it may mean some people has not heard.
bible say the gospel shall be preach to all nation then the end will come,it not yet the end of the world so this question is invalid. However there are evidence that say the gospel has been preach to most nation.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 10:18am On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
they will here the gospel,as long as the world is not yet come to end,it may mean some people has not heard.
bible say the gospel shall be preach to all nation then the end will come,it not yet the end of the world so this question is invalid. However there are evidence that say the gospel has been preach to most nation.

I thought I made it clear that I was referring to those who are dead, in the past, whom the bible never got to.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 10:27am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


I thought I made it clear that I was referring to those who are dead, in the past, whom the bible never got to.
those who died before the coming of jesus are judge base on there work, the book of revelation made this clear.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 10:29am On Dec 15, 2014
@OP, I didnt see any thing in your write up that is strong enough to convince me to lose my faith in God. Nothing at all.

Talking about Cain and Abel, people in their generation lived up to nine hundred years and above so you cant look at their case with the eyes of our generation where people hardly live up to 80 years and above. Again you cant talk about incest in their own case when God had not made the law. Just like in tho old testament where divorce was permitted anyhow and people married as many wives as possible but when Jesus came he made adjustments to it.

What i'm saying is that nine hundred years is not ninety years so you cant draw conclusions on issues concerning that generation as if they are same with our generation.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 10:34am On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
those who died before the coming of jesus are judge base on there work, the book of revelation made this clear.

ok, so Cain too will be judged for in.cest by 'work' right?

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 10:41am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


ok, so Cain too will be judged for in.cest by 'work' right?
God has already judge cain after he killed his brother,all the event happen before the promise(gifft) of God has been fulfilled in the person of christ jesus,so yes God judge him according to his work.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 10:47am On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
God has already judge cain after he killed his brother,all the event happen before the promise(gifft) of God has been fulfilled in the person of christ jesus,so yes God judge him according to his work.

Ok, but this contradicts what you said here...
malvisguy212:
all of these events happened before the law was given. According to the Apostle Paul, when there is no law, there can be no violation of the law or sin. So, since the law against Inbreeding was not given until thousands of years later, there was no theological problem with Cain marrying his sister.

If there was no 'theological problem ' with Cain marrying his sister, why then should he be judged for it? Work or not!

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 10:48am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


I thought I made it clear that I was referring to those who are dead, in the past, whom the bible never got to.

You have a conscience right? Those who never came across the bible or the word of God in the past before they died will be judged according to their conscience. There are basic wrongs which you dont even need anybody to tell you that you are wrong when you do them. Your conscience pricks you immediately you do them, once it happens and you feel sorry about it and refrain from doing them again it means you have a genuine intention to live right. Obviously Cain's conscience condemned him when he killed his brother thats why he tried to hide it when God asked him.

God will always minister the truth to us in our hearts or through someone or a book or however, the way we react to it is what matters.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 10:51am On Dec 15, 2014
honourhim:


You have a conscience right? Those who never came across the bible or the word of God in the past before they died will be judged according to their conscience. There are basic wrongs which you dont even need anybody to tell you that you are wrong when you do them. Your conscience pricks you immediately you do them, once it happens and you feel sorry about it and refrain from doing them again it means you have a genuine intention to live right.

God will always minister the truth to us in our hearts or through someone or a book or however, the way we react to it is what matters.

Does god minister the truth to atheists too?

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by aaronson(m): 10:59am On Dec 15, 2014
First off...I wouldn't wanna sound arrogant to tell you I know the truth cus even the christians would also slam it down your throat that their God is the Truth.
I was a christian too but had an inquisitive and analytical mind but I was too young to question my parents belief until I got to school and had the chance to read whatever I laid my hands on,then I discovered the reason africa is backward is primarily because we don't read and the truth lies in the book while primitive minds whom hasn't read a thing would blindly argue and tell you,you lying,isn't that funny?
Religion is the most complex topic on earth been discussed and still would be after this my generation because the revolution will not be televised,the revolution is personal,I'm ATHIEST and FREETHINKER...with my mental power of cognition I wouldn't wanna choose the wrong path if I really know there is a God whom they claim is the right path but Truth be told,If there really is a God then the door to that right path is under Lock and key considering the level of evil and impunity in the world and God still sat there looking like he's waiting on Nigerian phcn to restore power.
Religion is a tool to control the mind and a means by which man's life would be control in a desired purpose by the conquerors. Hard to believe but there is no such thing as a God anywhere,you reading this is a God so am I too,if my 5 senses can't prove the fact of the imaginary God existence then there's no FACT!!!!!!!. I could go on and on but the christians would think am psychological disturbed because am overloading their mental nerves LMAO.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 11:04am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


Ok, but this contradicts what you said here...


If there was no 'theological problem ' with Cain marrying his sister, why then should he be judged for it? Work or not!
the law has not yet made active, is no theological problem but GOD IS ALL KNOWING, God judge him however that was not the sin that lead to his judgment, he was a murderer. Thank you for your time. My battery is low.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 11:08am On Dec 15, 2014
malvisguy212:
the law has not yet made active, is no theological problem but GOD IS ALL KNOWING, God judge him however that was not the sin that lead to his judgment, he was a murderer. Thank you for your time. My battery is low.

Am sorry about your battery but Paul too was a murderer, even after the laws have been given, yet no where was it written that he was judged.

Does your god operate double standard in judgement?

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:09am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


Does god minister the truth to atheists too?

Some atheists knew the truth in the past but deliberately rejected it because they felt it was too bitter for them to swallow, it restricts their freedom to engage in some of the things they want to do. Such people hardly open their heart to the truth

Some became atheists out of confusion and such people are always willing to take another step again in their walk with God when they receive light to some extent in some of the dark areas.

Some others were born atheists and when such people earnestly desire to know the truth about God, He never fails to minister to such people when they are sincere in their search.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 11:13am On Dec 15, 2014
honourhim:


Some atheists knew the truth in the past but deliberately rejected it because they felt it was too bitter for them to swallow, it restricts their freedom to engage in some of the things they want to do. Such people hardly open their heart to the truth

Some became atheists out of confusion and such people are always willing to take another step again in their walk with God when they receive light to some extent in some of the dark areas.

Some others were born atheists and when such people earnestly desire to know the truth about God, He never fails to minister to such people when they are sincere in their search.

Uhm, ok but does god minister the truth to atheists who are practical atheists presently, like me? That is the question and it requires a simpe yes or no.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:19am On Dec 15, 2014
aaronson:
,I'm ATHIEST and FREETHINKER...with my mental power of cognition I wouldn't wanna choose the wrong path if I really know there is a God whom they claim is the right path but Truth be told,If there really is a God then the door to that right path is under Lock and key considering the level of evil and impunity in the world and God still sat there looking like he's waiting on Nigerian phcn to restore power.
.

The problem with some of you is that you read about God in the bible, summarize whom you think he is(which is not exactly what the bible records about him) and use your summary of him to judge him. It doesnt work that way.

Pls may i ask, what do you know about God as you read in the bible? Kindly answer if you are not going to be arrogant and abusive in this discussion. But if you will be, then ignore this post. Thanks.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:22am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


Uhm, ok but does god minister the truth to atheists who are practical atheists presently, like me? That is the question and it requires a simpe yes or no.

Yes God ministers the truth to you and to everybody but its the state of your heart in accepting his message that is the issue.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 11:27am On Dec 15, 2014
honourhim:


Yes God ministers the truth to you and to everybody but its the state of your heart in accepting his message that is the issue.

Ok, to begin with, how do I know which god exactly is ministering to me and how do I know if what he's ministering is the "truth"?
And what is this truth?

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:40am On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


Ok, to begin with, how do I know which god exactly is ministering to me and how do I know if what he's ministering is the "truth"?
And what is this truth?

Do you sincerely have a hunger for righteousness? A hunger to know God and serve him in spirit and in truth?
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 11:43am On Dec 15, 2014
Nice article but I will not go as far as disputing the existence of God because it is just too evident to suggest otherwise. But let's leave that for another debate.

Religion and Christianity in particular only flourished till today because they used torture, fear and superstition to deter their members from leaving the fold. In the middle ages, to question any Christian doctrine or priest was to invite either prison, death or exile and so freedom of expression was not permitted. Many who dared to flow against the tide were brutally oppressed or killed.

Now that we are in the information and freedom age, we have tons and tons of material at our immediate disposal to carry out research into previously held truths or beliefs.

Like you I am an avid reader, reviewer and researcher into Christianity and the can I opened from my due diligence on this religion has so many worms that some times I just have to take some time off to bask in multiple phews !!!

For example, when I discovered that a lot of the prophecies in the gospel of Matthew were either wrongly applied or fabricated, that shook me. Then the trinity, hell fire and many other doctrines I found to be false and this triggered a zeal for more study.

My question to all of us and you the OP is, when you find one LIE in a book you begin to wonder how many more lies may lie therein. When you discover that most of the doctrines you once cherished were pagan in origin and mostly myths you ask yourself how much of the bible is truth, myth and fables.

It can get scary for a new believer or younger person especially when their pastors warn them to avoid further research with the consequence of hell or excommunication and other threats to stifle knowledge acquisition and application.

My stance is this, any religion or GOD that discourages reason , logic and investigation into TRUTH is not REAL.

So while we have similar stories , I just want to say that despite the flaws in the bible, my belief in God still stands, but my trust in Christianity and churches in general is weak.

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by ooman(m): 11:52am On Dec 15, 2014
honourhim:


Do you sincerely have a hunger for righteousness? A hunger to know God and serve him in spirit and in truth?

Which god?

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Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:59am On Dec 15, 2014
frosbel:
Nice article but I will not go as far as disputing the existence of God because it is just too evident to suggest otherwise. But let's leave that for another debate.

Religion and Christianity in particular only flourished till today because they used torture, fear and superstition to deter their members from leaving the fold. In the middle ages, to question any Christian doctrine or priest was to invite either prison, death or exile and so freedom of expression was not permitted. Many who dared to flow against the tide were brutally oppressed or killed.

Now that we are in the information and freedom age, we have tons and tons of material at our immediate disposal to carry out research into previously held truths or beliefs.

Like you I am an avid reader, reviewer and researcher into Christianity and the can I opened from my due diligence on this religion has so many worms that some times I just have to take some time off to bask in multiple phews !!!

For example, when I discovered that a lot of the prophecies in the gospel of Matthew were either wrongly applied or fabricated, that shook me. Then the trinity, hell fire and many other doctrines I found to be false and this triggered a zeal for more study.

My question to all of us and you the OP is, when you find one LIE in a book you begin to wonder how many more lies may lie therein. When you discover that most of the doctrines you once cherished were pagan in origin and mostly myths you ask yourself how much of the bible is truth, myth and fables.

It can get scary for a new believer or younger person especially when their pastors warn them to avoid further research with the consequence of hell or excommunication and other threats to stifle knowledge acquisition and application.

My stance is this, any religion or GOD that discourages reason , logic and investigation into TRUTH is not REAL.

So while we have similar stories , I just want to say that despite the flaws in the bible, my belief in God still stands, but my trust in Christianity and churches in general is weak.



You are playing ojoro here. A book that contains many lies according to you yet you still believe in the God which the book talked about. If you are sincere enough then drop the book and the God of the book and find another elsewhere. Stop messing yourself up by playing the middle man game.

N/B.
Kindly go and answer the questions i asked you in the thread you opened or live with the shame of not answering them. Mr teacher, teach me or bear the shame.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 12:00pm On Dec 15, 2014
ooman:


Which god?

god? not for me. God i said.
Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Nobody: 12:01pm On Dec 15, 2014
honourhim:


You are playing ojoro here. A book that contains many lies according to you yet you still believe in the God which the book talked about. If you are sincere enough then drop the book and the God of the book and find another elsewhere. Stop messing yourself up by playing the middle man game.

N/B.
Kindly go and answer the questions i asked you in the thread you opened or live with the shame of not answering them. Mr teacher, teach me or bear the shame.


What is this religious fanatic saying , lol. grin

For your info , Christianity is not the only medium through which one can believe in God, duh !!

Please don't derail this thread, take your extremism elsewhere.

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