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|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 9:37am On Dec 16, 2014|
philfearon:the fact that the law was not giving yet does not mean man will sin,just like adam and eve were judge through the divine law of God mean cain was judge through the same law.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 9:37am On Dec 16, 2014|
@joseph1013,what you are experiencing now is purely normal..Its a sort of unleashing of anger because you realised just how stupid you must have been believing all the lies in the bible...
Questions like why didn't I see this earlier? why did I not embark on this truth seeking earlier? So many "why's and How's" will continue to pop up....
But here is the real thing: Now that you know,now that you are fully convinced that what you previously believed in is all lies,what next? what do I do with it?
Here is my take,Move on
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 9:44am On Dec 16, 2014|
malvisguy212:Oh! Prior before the visible physical law for man,there was an invisible divine law for man? And that man could actually sin? How can one sin when there is nothing to sin about? How can you break a law when the law is nonexistent?
As a law student,let me tell you something about laws: A law is not a law that is non-existent...You can not because someone committed something that you think is not right and then you make a law in retrospective ( backdating a law) so that the person can be punished under it......
That's actually what you are insinuating your God did!!
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 9:57am On Dec 16, 2014|
The assumption that our mortality makes life meaningless too often goes unchallenged. If a coach tells his football team of kids that the loss of their most recent game won't matter to them in ten years, does that really render their loss meaningless in the here and now?
What if they had won a game, and he immediately indicated the same thing concerning their win—that it wouldn't matter in ten years? Would his remarks be welcome?
They would be no more welcome, I submit, than the remarks of those who insist that our temporal lives are meaningless if there is no hereafter, no Grand Plan for the universe with us at its center.
Most of us have enjoyed deep, meaningful friendships that eventually petered out following a move to another part of the country. Should the fear that our friendships might end in this way prevent us from making friends and enjoying them while we have the chance? Should we avoid taking household pets, knowing we are likely to outlive them and will never join up with them again?
Life in the here and now can be as meaningful as we make it, and we need not depend on a sequel to savor our challenges and triumphs here on earth.
Consider for the sake of argument that there is in fact no afterlife. This is analogous to an engineering team that works several years to develop a fighter plane prototype for the government but whose contract bid is ultimately turned down. There is a sense of lost effort, frustration, meaninglessness, and disappointment. Nevertheless, the reality is that the team lost the bid. Or consider a pride of lions diligently stalking its prey.
After days of going without food, they finally bring down a gazelle, only to have it stolen by a pack of hyenas. There is a sense of wasted effort, anger, and (to the extent that lions can feel it) meaninglessness. In the same way—and reasoning by extension—if our lives are to end in the grave as do those of the animals, we are horrified by the wasted effort and consider life to be ultimately meaningless.
But we are no more entitled to a hereafter than are the apes, who suffer sickness, toil, hunger, broken relationships, warfare, and humiliation before their peers—in short, many of the same hardships we face—and yet who do not have the hope of eternal life, let alone an explanation from a divinely inspired book as to the meaning of it all.
We can find meaning and satisfaction in making the world a freer and better place in which to live. This is the essence of humanism: to improve the lives of humans. It is not merely, as antihumanist fundamentalists suggest, to make us as humans the center of our own life, the captain of our own ship.
The focus of humanism is to improve the lot of all, knowing that if we are to make life better for our fellow human, we cannot rely on any unseen power to make it happen; we must make it happen ourselves.[/b]
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 10:08am On Dec 16, 2014|
philfearon:who is the law giver? Is it not God? God warn adam not to eat from the try of good and evil ,adam disobey God and face punishment,surely cain and abel would have learn not to disobey God or face the same punishment . So the knowledge of good and evil is passed unto them.cain violate it and face judgment the same way adam violate it and face judgment.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 10:12am On Dec 16, 2014|
joseph1013:My oh! My. Launch and Publish are not the same words remember. Read the news from the link to confirm my previously stated assertion
Another Red herring spotted.
No you didn't, you just made an attempt to drive a locution that failed woefully
@bolded: Divine Laws existed before Moses. Namely, the Adamic covenant, the Noahic covenant, and the Abrahamic covenant. I thought you said you read your bible well enough, how come we still have to lecture you on basics
God was obliged to handle a legal case against the corrupt inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. But note how God proceeded. God had heard a “cry of complaint” about the shocking conduct of these people, if only by the prayers of righteous Lot. (Genesis 18:20; 2 Peter 2:7, But before acting, God ‘went down’ to give them a chance of repentance by means of his angels. (Genesis 18:21, 22; 19:1) *Another scenario is the case of Nineveh, when God sent Jonah*. God also took the time to reassure Abraham that he would not act unjustly.—Genesis 18:23-32. So God sent them a warning and they weren't just intrested. Hence their
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 10:17am On Dec 16, 2014|
Are we still on tis' incest issue again.. I already told you, at this point; incest was not a sin. This predates the Mosaic Law. Quit the red herring please, let's conclude on an argument before you move to a new one. Dont create a noise in here.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 10:25am On Dec 16, 2014|
Good to have you chip in your bit. However, the challenge with religion especially in a country like ours is that it is always in our face and it's difficult for us to keep quiet in the presence of this archaic blueprint for lifestyle and behaviour.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 10:36am On Dec 16, 2014|
joseph1013:Almost everybody who relates with me in school knows am not a religious person..They respect it..They are afraid to enter into any dialogue in religion(Christianity) with me..But they don't make fun of me,never..
Some however,will be like mouth opened,astonished and with that irritating look of "this guy is lost,may God help you"...And I will be like,damn; low mentality is ignorance!
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 10:37am On Dec 16, 2014|
I read the whole statement and what I'm still seein' here is you "proved a negative"
Probably we should analyze your previous statement (the context)
You clearly stated you do not "Conclusively deny the existence of God" but "you've not found convincin' evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God"
notice these context predates the statement below
"To be convinced"? Let's take a stroll to our dictionary to get the meaning of the word
con- vince [kuh n-vins]
2. verb (used with object), convinced, convincing.
to move by argument or evidence to belief, agreement, consent, or a course of action: "to convince a jury of his guilt; A test drive will convince you that this car handles well."
Now here we have everythin' we need to nail you.
But wouldn't we be biased if we dont define the word Context.
context - /ˈkɒntɛkst/
1. the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.
Now the layman is probably gettin' confused, let's deal the final blow by breakin' down his statement into a much more simpler from. Afterall they say "Simplicity is the Glory of Expression"
That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you are convinced does not exist in the context that I mentioned earlier.
Now substituting the meaning on context and convinced in his statement, we have a much more eay to comprehend sentence
That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you have the evidence to belief does not exist in the circumstance that had been formed of my staement above that yeilds the settings of the event of not believin' in God
Hence he proved a NEGATIVE
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 10:41am On Dec 16, 2014|
malvisguy212:Am sorry,I didn't quite get the part where They were told "Thou shall not kill" before the perceived murder of Abel.Mind telling me?
malvisguy212:Am sorry,I didn't quite get the part where They were told "Thou shall not kill" before the perceived murder of Abel.Mind telling me?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by Hadeep: 10:45am On Dec 16, 2014|
[quote author=ooman post=28899636]
Ok, So I can now become a Christian and start embezzling company and country money, kill people and take their properties since I will not be judged right?
If i understood the guy very well, i don't think that is what he is trying to insinuate.
If you everly believe in truth but do not act according to truth then thats mean you never believe.
Again if you believe in false but do not act according to false then thats also mean you don't believe in it..
because the bible also stated that our action is what matters.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 10:49am On Dec 16, 2014|
I think the question should have been Why does a stupid creation question it's Creator, when the Creator clearly stated in his word (Isiah ch 45 vs 11) " Thus says the LORD, the Holy of Israel, and his Maker: "Will you question me about my children, or command me concerning the work of my hands?".
Your answer is in the word of God. I thought you said you read the bible in and out. How come you're askin' tis' baselss senseless questions?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 10:49am On Dec 16, 2014|
I see that your reputation precedes you and you wear it proudly like a toga. Nice! I'm not here to debate Obasanjo with you, but since you insist on using that analogy, let me indulge you a lil.
In the link you sent, it's obvious you didnt read it, but simply put it to score a cheap point.. See a statement from it:
[size=14pt]Earlier, counsel to Obasanjo, Realwan Okpanachi, had told the court that the book was published before the order was granted.
He argued that the book had been in circulation since November and the order was made on December 5.[/size]
Again, your analogy is useless.
So like I stated earlier, your link shows that your analogy is useless.
Argghhh...the religionist! Always have a way of rationalizing evil in the defence of their gods! So sins, causatives and punishments are spelt out in the Adamic, Noahic, and Abrahamic covenants like the Mosaic law where each man knows his place and knows what comes after he does what?
So where did the 'cry of complaint' come from? Your Bible does not give where it came from and it is only your extra-biblical explanation that tell us it was Lot's. Or is there a verse that you can show us that says that.
Did you say God gave them a chance of repentance? #sighs
How? By sending Angels, who were could not be distinguished from men? Did they preach to them? Did they tell them to repent? Was there a law about murder, and sexual perversions in the abrahamic covenant? Quit this unintelligable defense of your god.
Ninevah is another kettle of horrible folly. Let's leave that for another discussion.
How could god act justly when there was no written or oral law as to what to do and what not to do? As a parent, would you punish your kids with DEATH for things they didnt know was not to be done? Why is your god always quick to kill?
Are you aware that your god killed much more people in the bible than the devil?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 10:54am On Dec 16, 2014|
YOu cannot shift ground and attempt to run away.
When the patriarch lied about Sarai being his sister rather than his wife (which was only half a lie since Sarai was actually his half sister) God does not punish Abraham for lying or for incest. Instead, God afflicts the men who, under the belief that she was not Abraham wife, attempted to sleep with her.
Does this sexual relationship not predate the mosaic law? Why does your god afflict the men?
Why does he punish one and not punish the other for sexual relations that were later forbidden in the mosaic law? I thought it is said that your god is not partial?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 10:55am On Dec 16, 2014|
Your Analogy is flawed based on the fact that you're restrictin' your premise to regionalism rather than a Universal Law. Regional laws are subjective no doubt but so is not the case here.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 11:00am On Dec 16, 2014|
Hahaha...I knew it would get to that. When religionists run out of arguments for their gods, they turn to that agelong fallacy and tell you not to question the actions of their god.
If that is the mentality of mankind, all our technological discoveries would never have been possible. We would still watch the rainbow in wonder as the exclusive preserve of God. We'd still cringe when we hear the thunder. Our only source of light would still be the Sun.
Tell us you dont know and that you cannot defend it rather than attempt to use the false pretense that god should not be questioned.
Word of God? hahaha...an archaic compilation of books whose stories are cooked up from pagan traditions and tales of that day and time? I'd pass please.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 11:01am On Dec 16, 2014|
Would be back with my rebuttals later, got a lot to do
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by sinequanon: 11:04am On Dec 16, 2014|
You may care to read my post again and ask yourself just where you got the above idea from.
Well, I went to a school where I was the ONLY Black person.
Talking about a "Sky- daddy" etc. has nothing to do with you avoiding "the glare and stare" of Christians. It is more likely to attract more animosity from Christians. Like most atheists (even if you do not mean to imply your are one, yourself), you seem to be in denial. Psychologically, what you are really doing is talking aloud to yourself as part of your therapy during your transition from Christianity, and you are trying to test your resilience against what Christians can throw at you, by debating the bible and rationalizing it in your new faith of science.
The denial I am talking about, is not denial of god, but denial of your residual attachment to your old faith. Fighting over the bible is your attempt to establish a sense of authority in your new perspective. Most people who leave their religion go through such a phase, and it may take several years.
(And by the way, I don't even believe in "a creator" let alone any religion, so there is no need to aim your "sky-daddy" bravado in my direction to prove to yourself that you can do it. Find a Christian who will react and partake in your therapy.)
Human psychology is an excellent thing to study. You may find your own psychology particularly fascinating if you can overcome the denial.
I am not sure what the order of events is. You were always inquisitive, but you didn't "explore" such questions while you were a Christian? Then at some point you "explored" them? How? You mean you read about them! Did you believe, just as you believed the bible?
Anyway, this is the vacuum I was talking about. It is no coincidence that science has provided you with the comfort needed to deal with the vacuum -- the questions about who your are and "where you came from".
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 11:28am On Dec 16, 2014|
. Bro don't feel I'm attacking you. I'm not. Its just a cool discussion. Just tell me your understanding about the personality called God from what you ve read in the bible. Thanks.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 11:57am On Dec 16, 2014|
Thank you very much for your frank response. It then follows that sin is possible even without the law. Without any knowledge of any law it is still possible to feel we have fallen short of some moral standard.
“I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 12:01pm On Dec 16, 2014|
What command of God's exactly did Cain disobey?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 2:22pm On Dec 16, 2014|
He is a murderer,a thief,Reaps where he did not sow,Permits incest,Loves destruction,committed the highest genocide I have ever read of anywhere,Loves laziness,Does a lot of Magic and makes the people lose sense of reality from fantasy....That's for the old testament...
In the new testament,he committed adultery with Another persons wife to bear his son;He made his son believe he had supernatural powers, that's why the son has been notedly been able to fantasise about Walking on water, Turning water into wine,casting out legions of demons and sending them into a pig,Saving the world,etc...
Finally,he made his son believe he could actually fly by dreaming of flying to a heaven..All this made the son(Jesus) finally develop a personality disorder,as there are instances of him claiming to be one with the Father and what follows is a torrent of endless dreams about a heaven with a golden mansions he is preparing for his followers if they can follow in his delusion...
Two of the apostles(John and Paul) bought this lie perfectly and smoked the same SK he was smoking..Instances of them being to heaven are reminiscent in the bible....
Don't take it with a bad feeling bro,that's my own thought on the biblical God...
Tell me yours then(as I first asked you already)..
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by philfearon(m): 2:31pm On Dec 16, 2014|
IanDiamonds:I thought he gave this Creation of His Freewill?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by RikoduoSennin(m): 5:12pm On Dec 16, 2014|
Please Define Murder. Human's kill other humans who break human laws, why should a toy maker be held accountable for destroying few of his own toys?
Interesting, what did he stole?
Hahaha, where and when?
You have two goats in our poultry, a male and a female and its expected that they multiply- how do you propose that will happen.
Tell me, who stipulates incest to be wrong? If God does not exist and humans are product of Nature- why is incest a wrong thing to you or what makes incest a bad thing.
Where is your proof, remember keyword: "Loves"
Please define Genocide.
You have a poutry of sick animals- chicken and rabbid dogs, do you have a right to put them down (kill them) or not. To protect other livestock and persons.
Show me where, because 2 Thess 3:10 "...that if any would not work neither should he eat"
What is magic? Are you admitting his existence since you refer to him doing Magic? Magic done by a living thing I suppose.
Load of crap! Who told you God slept with Mary. For someone who claimed to be a christian Minister you lack knowledge in everything. No wonder these books messed with your mind.
You understand our a paper is faxed from point A to point B, but you don't understand how Jesus became flesh from heaven to earth.
Do you have proof that any of this did not happen? Men like "Chris Angel" have done similiar things today, they are still alive, study them while you can.
Do you have proof that Jesus did not accend to the Heavens or you simply do not believe because you simply can not fathom how that is possible just like cave men can't fathom how a metal can fly for hours without touching the ground.
Do you have any proof that Paul and John did not see a vision of heaven. Remember they both did not visit there in the fresh.
All these sounds like the ranting of some "really" confused.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 5:12pm On Dec 16, 2014|
PastorAIO:cain was a grown man that know between good and evil, the kindness in abel, were did he get that from?, one thing you should know is this, when cain kill abel, he know he was wrong.
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry?
Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right,
will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is
right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have
you, but you must rule over it.”
Cain know. Between good and evil but he chose to do evil.there are no comandment giving to them but am sure they will learn from there father the command of God from the beginning.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 5:44pm On Dec 16, 2014|
Ok bro I don't feel bad because we are discussing and I'm the one that asked you to say what you understand about God from what the bible records.
Let me start by answering your view on him from the old testament then when I'm free again I ll comment on what you wrote about the new testament.
Now you judged him outside who he is in the bible as I said before.
Muderer- God is not a muderer because he is the owner of life. He gives and takes as recorded in the bible. Nowhere did he state in the bible that everyone will die same way. Kindly show me if there is.
A thief- he can't be a thief because he created all things and he owns them all.
He cannot be said to reap where he did not sow because he owns all things.
Permits incest- in the first place he was the one who defined incest. If he did not, we all would ve been sleeping around with our sisters without finding it wrong. He is a creator and knows his concept for creation. If his concept was to allow for procreation to go on without any hindrance for sometime before placing bounds is he answerable to any of us?
Let me also ask you this- the sex outside marriage and same-sex thing that he called bad and which the world redefined as good are you still on God's side on this?
And if thhe world wakes up tomorrow and re-defines incest as good would you still accuse God of doing bad?
Commited a lot of destruction- and what if destruction was part of his concept in creation for life as it appears to be?
Did a lot of magic- what do you mean by magic? What the bible said is miracle. May be you can help explain the two to me.
For now I ll stop here because am busy. Will get back. Cheers.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 7:01pm On Dec 16, 2014|
How can there be no commandment and a commandment 'of God from the beginning'? You are contradicting yourself in one sentence. It's quite incredible.
Let's assume that there is a commandment of God from the beginning, cos that's more interesting. Can you tell me what this commandment is?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by malvisguy212: 7:42pm On Dec 16, 2014|
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 8:51pm On Dec 16, 2014|
And Cain violated this commandment?
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by honourhim: 9:38pm On Dec 16, 2014|
1. There is nothimg in the birth of Jesus that suggests adultery. Your judgement contradicts biblical record. His conception was purely divine. Your believe or unbelief of this does not validate or invalidate this.
2. God did not make his son believe rather his son knows that he is the almighty and that with him all things are possible.
3. Jesus didnt fantasize anything. He walked on water, he turned water into wine, cast out demons, healed the sick, forgave people their sins, raised the dead and did many great things. If this looks impossible in your eyes thats for you. Your opinion doesnt cancel the truth about it.
4. God did not make Jesus believe he can fly to heaven. Jesus ascended to heaven and he is still there and will come back again for us. Again if this appears impossible to you thats for you. It doesnt change the truth about it.
All that you have written are contrary to the biblical account which lands back to what I said earlier on that you people just read the bible, summmarize who you think God is and conclude that that is whom he is. Thats wrong.
Again If God does something that goes contrary to what the bible records he can do that is when you people can say he did something contrary to his attributes in the bible but when his actions fall within what is written about him in the scripture then you have no case against him. He is the Almighty Jehovah, the creator of all things.
If you believe he does not exist it doesnt change anything. Its just your opinion and i dont bother my head about that. My own point is- If you want to judge his person then it has to be in line with what is recorded about him in the scripture and not what you think he should be or he is. What you think doesnt change anything about him. Thanks.
|Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by IanDiamonds: 10:06pm On Dec 16, 2014|
philfearon:Do you believe in God? Make up your mind before I answer you.
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