[img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=http://img.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/LynnBeisnerCarAccident.png&w=480[/img]

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/12/when-my-son-survived-a-serious-accident-i-didnt-thank-god-i-thanked-honda/
Last Friday night, a semi-trailer pushed the car my son was driving into a Jersey barrier. The trailer’s back wheel landed on the hood of the car, less than six inches from my son’s head. Every window shattered, throwing glass inches from his face.

But my son has not a scratch on him.

I was so overwhelmed with gratitude that I wrote a letter to Honda praising the expertly engineered safety features that saved his life. I explained that I had been in an equally serious accident 18 years earlier and had suffered a serious brain injury and broken bones all over the right side of my body, requiring countless surgeries.

I posted the letter on Facebook, and closed it with this:

I want to extend my thanks to the engineers who used their intelligence and skill to create a car that safe, to the crash test dummies who have died a thousand horrible deaths and to your executives who did not scrimp on safety.

Thank you, Honda.

That last line rubbed some people the wrong way. While many who left comments on my post were just glad that my son was alive and well, others wanted to know why I had thanked Honda for that outcome. The entity that deserved my thanks, they said, was God. One commenter wrote: “I am thankful that God held your son in His embrace and I am curious why you thanked Honda rather than Him.”

Before I go any further, let me be clear: I am deeply grateful that I still have a son to make fun of my tastes in music, drink milk out of the carton and turn my mother-heart to mush when he tells me that he loves me. In moments of private devotion, I find myself at a loss to express how thankful I felt when I saw the remains of his car and how perfectly it had formed a cocoon for his body.

However, over many years of thinking about religion and faith, I have noticed that something sad and somewhat strange happens when we thank God: We tend to stop there. We simply overlook the decisions, the science, the policies and the people who contributed to the “miracle.” To put it another way: When we focus on supernatural deliverance from harm, we often ignore all of the human ways we can improve our own safety. I am concerned that we may associate survival of serious accidents with the unpredictable hand of Providence, not with airbags, safety testing and the regulations that have put them in place.

For the first 29 years of my life, the only cars that I could afford were dodgy and dangerous. One of them had a tricky power-steering pump. One day, when the power steering went out, the wheel whipped back when I tapped a curb, hitting my hand on the inside of the wheel and snapping one of the bones. My 4-year-old daughter had to shift gears as I drove myself to the emergency room. Another car required that I park on a hill because, no matter what part we repaired or replaced, it often wouldn’t drive unless I gave it a rolling start and popped the clutch.


When my husband introduced me to Honda, I fell deeply in love. I named that first Honda Mr. Belvedere, after the 1980s television housekeeper because, like its namesake, the car was reliable, boring, safe and served our family well. Every other car that we have owned has been a Honda. The company has not violated our trust in more than 16 years.

But here is the other reason that I thanked Honda: Automobile safety is a cause that is very important to me. I understand from painful personal experience just how fragile the human body can be and how savage a car can become during an accident. I did not want to waste an opportunity to credit a company that saved a life by doing the right thing. More importantly, I do not want to contribute to the mistaken idea that surviving a motor vehicle accident is more a stroke of luck or divine providence than the result of human actions and decisions.

Thankfully, Honda is not the only car company that is producing safer vehicles. The number of traffic fatalities dropped 26 percent between 2005 and 2012, to about 1 in 10,000 people. Such a significant improvement in safety does not happen by accident. And it’s also not a product solely of the free market. The airbag was patented in 1951 and offered in luxury vehicles in the 1970s. But airbags did not become standard in American vehicles until federal regulations began requiring them in the mid-1990s.

Fatal car accidents are not inevitable. We have the ability to prevent them and the amount of injury they cause. Accidents also are not an act of God. No matter what you believe about a divine creator, I think most would agree that an all-poweful and all-loving being would not need encouragement to do the right thing. Unlike people, God does not require regulations and oversight – or even thanks – to be sure that human beings are never sacrificed for profit. The truth is, we cannot make our roads and our cars safer if we ignore what makes them that way: science, regulations and corporations that prioritize safety.

Almighty Honda, we worship you for this miracle.

Seriously now *Congratulations*. It would have been terrible.

I understand the writers viewpoint.
We dont fail to giv credit to whom it is due. E.g a student tht wants to make a first class but doesnt watch his grades but instead replaces work with religious activity will fail royally.
Same thing for blamng d devil for every ill. Engineers dont service a plane wen due and managemnt is negligent about enforcng the policy then wen there's an avertable aircrash we blame satan.
It cuts both ways,those are d vagaries of religion.


But we thank God anyway.
And we thank honda engineers.
God is behind every goodness.

asalimpo:

God is behind every goodness.

What good is in hell?

asalimpo:
I understand the writers viewpoint.
We dont fail to giv credit to whom it is due. E.g a student tht wants to make a first class but doesnt watch his grades but instead replaces work with religious activity will fail royally.

U agree religious activities are no substitute for hardwork and academic success? Of what use is religion then?

Following her line of reasoning, one can't help but agree wit her. But millions of people have been known to die from accidents involving Honda cars, so it wouldnt hurt to thank God as well
PS: Almost sounds like a Honda advert

asalimpo:
I understand the writers viewpoint.
But we thank God anyway.
And we thank honda engineers.
God is behind every goodness.

But who is behind every evil, human freewill?!

If God is the architect behind all goodness, why is there evil?!

asalimpo:
I understand the writers viewpoint.
We dont fail to giv credit to whom it is due. E.g a student tht wants to make a first class but doesnt watch his grades but instead replaces work with religious activity will fail royally.
Same thing for blamng d devil for every ill. Engineers dont service a plane wen due and managemnt is negligent about enforcng the policy then wen there's an avertable aircrash we blame satan.
It cuts both ways,those are d vagaries of religion.
.

But we thank God anyway.
And we thank honda engineers.
God is behind every goodness.

Thank God anyway?
For what?
All the hundreds of thousands that die yearly from similar but more fatal accidents?

Human ingenuity has always proven to be far more reliable than acts of providence, whether real or imagined.

Mercedes made a huge contribution to passenger safety in the early 50s with the invention of the crumple zone that we now take for granted or may not even have heard of it.
Prior to this time, the whole of the car was made to be very rigid. So in the event of a head on collision, the full force of impact is transmitted to the occupants of the vehicle.
The result of the old design was that on impact most of the vehicle will remain intact but with lots of passeger injuries/ fatalities.

But by creating a crumple zone in the front of the car, most of the energy from the force of impact is not transmitted to the occupants of the vehicle. It is absorbed by the rapid deformation of the crumple zone.
So the fact that on impact a modern car easily deforms is a safety feature that helps to protect the passengers on impact.

Cool info. How body, bro?

dorox:
Mercedes made a huge contribution to passenger safety in the early 50s with the invention of the crumple zone that we now take for granted or may not even have heard of it.
Prior to this time, the whole of the car was made to be very rigid. So in the event of a head on collision, the full force of impact is transmitted to the occupants of the vehicle.
The result of the old design was that on impact most of the vehicle will remain intact but with lots of passeger injuries/ fatalities.

But by creating a crumple zone in the front of the car, most of the energy from the force of impact is not transmitted to the occupants of the vehicle. It is absorbed by the rapid deformation of the crumple zone.
So the fact that on impact a modern car easily deforms is a safety feature that helps to protect the passengers on impact.

Otherwise God did it.

To all atheists, firstly, without God, we wudnt b here talking about good and evil.

We wudnt even know wat the concept meant.

asalimpo:
To all atheists, firstly, without God, we wudnt b here talking about good and evil.

We wudnt even know wat the concept meant.

Could you expatiate?

plaetton:


Thank God anyway?
For what?
All the hundreds of thousands that die yearly from similar but more fatal accidents?

Human ingenuity has always proven to be far more reliable than acts of providence, whether real or imagined.

Theo101:
God is a good God. The devil is a baaaaaad devil.
wen you think of evil think D (devil). Though sometimes its human fault and no D in it but MOST times, D is behind it all.
If only world leaders cud simply grasp this basic truth, we'd attack world problems from two fronts, the spiritual and the physcal.
But they dont- and the world isnt gettng better by d day,just more advanced and more harrassed!


God is behind good knowledge.
God inspires men,graces them for certain tasks. The bible says He gave gifts to men ..
Thts y u see som ppl with innate inclination to certain specialties.
Education hones these skillz.
But God put it there.

Justosaus:
Following her line of reasoning, one can't help but agree wit her. But millions of people have been known to die from accidents involving Honda cars, so it wouldnt hurt to thank God as well
PS: Almost sounds like a Honda advert

make a satisfied customer and they'll advertise ur product for free. The best advertising is the word of mouth kind.

I have always said it, that if it is God that saved an individual in a car accident in which five others die... Then he must have allowed the other five to die. God is the best example of eating his cake and having it.

It makes no sense to save one and leave five dead.

It's either he was not capable of saving the others or he had no hand in the who event.

If I were God I will to absolutely nothing for humans since I am always sure of their gratitude with or without my involvement. Lol... They even praise God when he hurts them.

asalimpo:


Theo101:
God is a good God. The devil is a baaaaaad devil.
wen you think of evil think D (devil). Though sometimes its human fault and no D in it but MOST times, D is behind it all.
If only world leaders cud simply grasp this basic truth, we'd attack world problems from two fronts, the spiritual and the physcal.
But they dont- and the world isnt gettng better by d day,just more advanced and more harrassed!


God is behind good knowledge.
God inspires men,graces them for certain tasks. The bible says He gave gifts to men ..
Thts y u see som ppl with innate inclination to certain specialties.
Education hones these skillz.
But God put it there.

Another silly rationalization.
Give god the credits, and give devil the blame, .. all imaginary. Lol

What else is new ?
I don't know why a smart guy like you cannot figure out that both the good and the bad are just the different and opposing sides of the human psyche.
When humans like you and I rely on invisible fairies to lead our lives, a lot of bad stuff happens, and then you turn around to blame another invisible fairy.
But as demonstrated in the op article, when same humans dedicate their brains to finding solutions, and to improve their lot, much greater things happen.
Daaaaahhhhhh !

What type kind of brain implants does one need to figure out these simple things, .. with all the history behind us ?

Kay17:


But who is behind every evil, human freewill?!

If God is the architect behind all goodness, why is there evil?!

Fw+d .
Free will + the Devil.
But bascally,it's Free will- men yieldg their bodies to an evil satanic being to b used by him.

The earth is for man. Only humans can operate in it, so for satan to work his evil,he needs human bodies. Human beings yieldg their bodies to him get his work done here,knowingly or unknowingly.
Similarly, For God to get His job done, He too needs human bodies,
people who'll b his hands and feet and eyes and ears and tongue and voice.
Etc.

To slaughter so many jews, satan needed a being full of his spirit and ready to yield to him, he found such a one in Hitler!

We are all subject to time and unforseen occurence, so whether our furtune is good or bad is not as a result of God's direct intervention in our lives. But I do believe that in the past God has on a few occasions had to directly intervene in the safety of the lives of those people that were crucial to his purpose .
That was why Paul was protected from harm, while Stephen was stoned to death. Moses was saved even though many other children were killed.
My point is that on the few occasions where God saved someone as recorded in the bible, it was always not for the persons gain, but on account of the special work that needs to be done by that person.

As a christian, I cannot think of any special reason why God would protect me in an accident and let the next man die. My salvation is the hope I have that God will in the end correct every wrong ever made by ressurecting all deserving ones rhat have perished to a perfect life.

asalimpo:


I understand the writers viewpoint.
We dont fail to giv credit to whom it is due. E.g a student tht wants to make a first class but doesnt watch his grades but instead replaces work with religious activity will fail royally.
Same thing for blamng d devil for every ill. Engineers dont service a plane wen due and managemnt is negligent about enforcng the policy then wen there's an avertable aircrash we blame satan.
It cuts both ways,those are d vagaries of religion.


But we thank God anyway.
And we thank honda engineers.
God is behind every goodness.

We thank God for Jesus

musKeeto:

What good is in hell?

men hav an option on where to spend eternity. They choose hell on earth.
The subject of hell bothers on God's justice, something we really cant fully comprehend ,just like no one alive can fully comprehend His Love. But like any one can deduce from the bible tht God isnt rash or hasty, his patience is amazing, you can at least settle with d fact tht Hell was'nt created out of vindictive compulsion.

Another i glimpse as i ponder somadisthings is tht infinity comes into play in the evaluation of human actions.
I mean every pertinent action, i.e with spiritual side effects, seems to have infinite ripple effects.
E.g,
The good you do, strts chain reactions tht continue into d future.
Compound these and balance a judgement to it and you may see y the judgement may appear harsh. But you've gotta to be God to b able to see the full gross weight of a sin!
As humans , somethings are just outta league.

Stay on course guys . This thread is dedicated to Master Honda and all his engineers no need for the usual back and forth arguments that will yield nothing.

dorox:
We are all subject to time and unforseen occurence, so whether our furtune is good or bad is not as a result of God's direct intervention in our lives. But I do believe that in the past God has on a few occasions had to directly intervene in the safety of the lives of those people that were crucial to his purpose .
That was why Paul was protected from harm, while Stephen was stoned to death. Moses was saved even though many other children were killed.
My point is that on the few occasions where God saved someone as recorded in the bible, it was always not for the persons gain, but on account of the special work that needs to be done by that person.

As a christian, I cannot think of any special reason why God would protect me in an accident and let the next man die. My salvation is the hope I have that God will in the end correct every wrong ever made by ressurecting all deserving ones rhat have perished to a perfect life.

yeah, stephen was martyred. But thts a different case, Jesus was killed . The bible doesnt promise escape from persecution even martyrdom. Infact, martyrdom, is regarded as a very high honour to God.
Peter, says, a martyr has special spiritual properties to b able to lay down his life for Christ.
But outside tht, God's will is perfect protection while a person is doing His work.
When Jonah fled from the God, (tried to), he was outside God's will , and so subject to watever ill was around Him. He almost died outside God's will.
When Paul, was to go to Rome to appeal to ceaser, he was within God's will, and God gave him a sense tht the ship was headed for disaster if it set sail as planned. He reported his suspicion to the ship captain but was ignored (probably as a religious nut head), but the lives of d passengers were spared because of paul-God wanted him alive in rome.

plaetton:


Another silly rationalization.
Give god the credits, and give devil the blame, .. all imaginary. Lol

What else is new ?
I don't know why a smart guy like you cannot figure out that both the good and the bad are just the different and opposing sides of the human psyche.
When humans like you and I rely on invisible fairies to lead our lives, a lot of bad stuff happens, and then you turn around to blame another invisible fairy.
But as demonstrated in the op article, when same humans dedicate their brains to finding solutions, and to improve their lot, much greater things happen.
Daaaaahhhhhh !

What type kind of brain implants does one need to figure out these simple things, .. with all the history behind us ?

lots of false religion. Yeah. But differing forces as complementary constants tht shud b-no.
Even non religious people know, life shudnt b puntuated with evil and pain. Tht the good in life shud continue longer if not being totally permanent.
The innate desire is real and whether religious or not - man has toiled to try and achieve this ,at least for himself and his own.
We know subconsciously tht evil shudnt b and is an anomaly.

asalimpo:


Fw+d .
Free will + the Devil.
But bascally,it's Free will- men yieldg their bodies to an evil satanic being to b used by him.

The earth is for man. Only humans can operate in it, so for satan to work his evil,he needs human bodies. Human beings yieldg their bodies to him get his work done here,knowingly or unknowingly.
Similarly, For God to get His job done, He too needs human bodies,
people who'll b his hands and feet and eyes and ears and tongue and voice.
Etc.

To slaughter so many jews, satan needed a being full of his spirit and ready to yield to him, he found such a one in Hitler!

Then you must accept that good is equally done by man within the exercise of his freewill. Becuas e if God intervenes to do good, there is hardly a reason why he would allow evil to occur at all. The good occurring is at least a form of intervention, so why doesn't the intervention extend to evils?!

asalimpo:


yeah, stephen was martyred. But thts a different case, Jesus was killed . The bible doesnt promise escape from persecution even martyrdom. Infact, martyrdom, is regarded as a very high honour to God.
Peter, says, a martyr has special spiritual properties to b able to lay down his life for Christ.
But outside tht, God's will is perfect protection while a person is doing His work.
When Jonah fled from the God, (tried to), he was outside God's will , and so subject to watever ill was around Him. He almost died outside God's will.
When Paul, was to go to Rome to appeal to ceaser, he was within God's will, and God gave him a sense tht the ship was headed for disaster if it set sail as planned. He reported his suspicion to the ship captain but was ignored (probably as a religious nut head), but the lives of d passengers were spared because of paul-God wanted him alive in rome.

Was Stephen not doing God's work when he was killed?
Are the lives of christians not taken from the natural disasters that happens around the world?
The passengers that perished in the ill fated Dana flight, were most of them not christians with a few pastors?
Have you not heard or seen a bus carrying people to or from a crusade that was involved in an accident with many fatalaties?
How about that pastor that recently died in a plane crash together with his family?

My friend, the truth is that it is completely random as to who survives or perish in an accident. The best we can do is to increase our chance of survival by taking every neccessary precautions to minimize risk.

Assuming God, an omniscient entity.

There is no doubt that improvements in car safety have led to the loss of fewer lives as a result of car crashes.

One can say that following improvements in car safety, God has chosen to intervene more often in car crashes and save lives

or that God gives the engineers the knowledge necessary to improve car safety

or that God has no hand in car crashes and the improvements alone are responsible for the lessened loss of life.

The first option sounds absurd, to me at least. I'm sure somebody somewhere can run with it though.

The second option is cool but one implication of it is that God delivers the knowledge necessary to improve car safety in bits (gradually) and that every death in a car crash as a result of inadequate safety features in the car is caused by God not delivering the necessary knowledge on time.

The last option is self explanatory.

To me then, God may be thanked for any life saved in a car crash. He can equally be blamed for any life lost.

One can also thank the Honda engineers for putting their knowledge to use or instead thank God again for allowing the engineers to put their knowledge to use.

So both madam and her critics are probably right.

musKeeto:

U agree religious activities are no substitute for hardwork and academic success? Of what use is religion then?

religion guides how you live your life. How you relate with your God, yourself, your spouse,your children and relations, your neighbours, strangers.
Your enemies.
How to handle life problems.
It gives answers to important life questions. How did we get here? Where are we goint to?
Why is there evil?
Questions on death.
Etc

religion is indispensable to life. Evrybody deals with the issues religion addresses.
E.g
if you were one of the women whose lips were caught off by rebels in rwanda, religion will dictate ur response: forgive or nurse grudge?


You also get a personal gift- dependg on ur religious affiliation.

asalimpo:


religion guides how you live your life. How you relate with your God, yourself, your spouse,your children and relations, your neighbours, strangers.
Your enemies.
How to handle life problems.
It gives answers to important life questions. How did we get here? Where are we goint to?
Why is there evil?
Questions on death.
Etc

religion is indispensable to life. Evrybody deals with the issues religion addresses.
E.g
if you were one of the women whose lips were caught off by rebels in rwanda, religion will dictate ur response: forgive or nurse grudge?


You also get a personal gift- dependg on ur religious affiliation.

C'mon man.
Cut out this sunday school crap.
You are addressing adults here.
You just keep repeating this long outdated lie.

Where, in the past or present, has religion ever fashioned or molded a good person, or a good society ?.

I mean, religion has been with us for tens of thousands of years. If what you wrote above was even 10% true, the Earth would have become a paradise for her children long before you and were born.

It is education and enlightenment in the very recent centuries and decades that has changed our world for the better, and will continue to change it for the better.

Don't you know anything at all about history?

This constant repetition of ignorance is becoming annoying.

plaetton:


Another silly rationalization.
Give god the credits, and give devil the blame, .. all imaginary. Lol

What else is new ?
I don't know why a smart guy like you cannot figure out that both the good and the bad are just the different and opposing sides of the human psyche.
When humans like you and I rely on invisible fairies to lead our lives, a lot of bad stuff happens, and then you turn around to blame another invisible fairy.
But as demonstrated in the op article, when same humans dedicate their brains to finding solutions, and to improve their lot, much greater things happen.
Daaaaahhhhhh !

What type kind of brain implants does one need to figure out these simple things, .. with all the history behind us ?

just like we intuitively know what is good and evil, we also do know that evil is an anomaly. Every sane human being wants goodness to b more frequent if not a constant.
Y are ppl falling over themselves to migrate to first world countries? Evil is abnormal. We know without being told tht this shudnt hav been. Nobody even wants to die if possible.
If you get past the oddity of invisible beings, you will admit tht thruout human histry and in this present world, there's a continuous conflict between man in all societies between groups of those who want to do evil and those who want good.
The bible only puts it in plainer light by pointng to the root cause of the source of the upheavels and conflicts in humanity.

Think for a moment, is cancer just d uncontrolled mutation of cells?
Is barrenness and epilepsy of a natural source ? In some cases , yes. The problems are physcal, and respond to physcal treatmnt. But in most cases - its more thn meets the eye. And to prove it,
wen the spiritual root is dealt with, the physcal symptoms go away.

The truth doesnt hav to look pretty,but it has to be the truth.

plaetton:


C'mon man.
Cut out this sunday school crap.
You are addressing adults here.
You just keep repeating this long outdated lie.

Where, in the past or present, has religion ever fashioned or molded a good person, or a good society ?.

I mean, religion has been with us for tens of thousands of years. If what you wrote above was even 10% true, the Earth would have become a paradise for her children long before you and were born.

It is education and enlightenment in the very recent centuries and decades that has changed our world for the better, and will continue to change it for the better.

Don't you know anything at all about history?

This constant repetition of ignorance is becoming annoying.

do a lil thinkg and see my point.
I said , a guide,
if people obeyed their religious dictates (sane religions here), the world wud b a better place.


I know a bitta history. The role of the catholic church in ushering and midwifing the dark ages. And controlling nations of gullible minds thru religious brain washg.
That's the power of religion.

The tenderness of ur conscience is a religious thing.
Ever wonder y muslims hav no qualms about killing "infidels"?
Their "religion" sanctions it.

Why will a christian taxi driver controll d urge to point five fingers at a driver that cut into him in traffic? Religion.

Religion regulates life.

asalimpo:


just like we intuitively know what is good and evil, we also do know that evil is an anomaly. Every sane human being wants goodness to b more frequent if not a constant.
Y are ppl falling over themselves to migrate to first world countries? Evil is abnormal. We know without being told tht this shudnt hav been. Nobody even wants to die if possible.
If you get past the oddity of invisible beings, you will admit tht thruout human histry and in this present world, there's a continuous conflict between man in all societies between groups of those who want to do evil and those who want good.
The bible only puts it in plainer light by pointng to the root cause of the source of the upheavels and conflicts in humanity.

Think for a moment, is cancer just d uncontrolled mutation of cells?
Is barrenness and epilepsy of a natural source ? In some cases , yes. The problems are physcal, and respond to physcal treatmnt. But in most cases - its more thn meets the eye. And to prove it,
wen the spiritual root is dealt with, the physcal symptoms go away.

The truth doesnt hav to look pretty,but it has to be the truth.

I am appalled by your deeply convoluted logic.
So good and evil exists, ..therefore ?

Can you ever conceive of good existing without evil with which to compare and appreciate?
Can you possibly conceive of day without night?
Can you possibly conceive of a world or planet where everyone thought the same and behaved the same all the time?

I am sorry, but you seem not to understand simple things, the simple dynamics of existence.

It is the eternal tug and pull, the dynamic flux of positive and negative forces that propel the motions of all particles that make up the universe.
This eternal tug and pull in the biological systems propel the biological and social evolution of species.
In other words, conflicts, social conflicts are part of social evolution.

Look at the food chain, and tell me where you see good and where you see evil.
Remember that your bible tells us that even your god wars with other gods, and his angels also war with the host of rival angels.
As it is above , so it is below.