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Muslims: Are We Bad? - Islam for Muslims (3) - Nairaland

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Poll: Are muslims bad?

Yes: 42% (20 votes)
No, maybe not: 57% (27 votes)
This poll has ended

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Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by parkerdrt: 8:03pm On Aug 16, 2006
whilst i must say that i have interacted and lived with quite a number of good muslims,i think that,on the whole,i find that muslims are not readily amenable to speaking out against those who give their religion a bad name.some even subscribe to these radical views without making it obvious.they find it easy and diverting to rail against israel and america without wanting to directly confront radical elements within them.the perception of islam will not change unless the moderates begin to speak out.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 8:07pm On Aug 16, 2006
wholex can you please give us the quotations in the bible.
Be ready to support anything you say.
where is it and let's read it together.

Anything I have said about Mohammed or his teachings,I can support Koranically.
You still have not answered the apostate question though.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by m4malik(m): 9:35pm On Aug 16, 2006
wholex:

this thread was not meant for the use of abusive languages or words but for us to discuss a burning in world today.

Well @wholex, that's just about what I thought, but I didn't mind though that some would resort to use them on me.

I think that more damage is done when people have no answers and instead resort to unethical means to pass a point.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by LoverBwoy(m): 10:26pm On Aug 16, 2006
I think that more damage is done when people have no answers and instead resort to unethical means to pass a point.

As an example some muslim that dont have answers/power to correct something that is wrong would look away but some will resort to violence, So categorizing the person that looks away knowing something aint right and someone that resort to voilence is wrong! THEY ARE 2 SEPARATE INDIVIDUALS


in the book that says
when someone slaps your right cheeks you turn the left cheeks towards them (presumably to get another slap);
in another book it says when someone slap you, you slap the person back

which one do u follow as AN individual with common sense follow?

Muhammad is human so therefore I dont think everything he did is to be followed to the core, It is common sense so quoting from his way of life or preaching is propaganda to me


just do what is right as a human been then there might be peace
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by tomi29: 10:49pm On Aug 16, 2006
parkerdrt:

the perception of islam will not change unless the moderates begin to speak out.

You have a point there. That's the only thing that bothers me about some muslims. When radicals amongst you act violent, condemn them instead of blindly supporting them and blaming Isreal and America for their acts. At least when the moderates speak out against the radicals then at some point people will begin to listen to you and believe the religion doesn't promote violence as the world has been made to believe.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by grailife(m): 11:04pm On Aug 16, 2006
IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by superman(m): 11:11pm On Aug 16, 2006
shit my head spining! too much to assimilate oooo oh well

as superman already know he is a christian of cause which is a religion just like islam .
superman from my nigerian point of view i repeat my nigerian point of view not arab or the westeners yes that both worship the same god from different perspertive. however the god are not to be blame of cause is we man i mean emm humanbeings. u with superman yes, i hope.

fine since both are religion ,yes and under one god none is better than the other, agreed with superman, ok no trouble for real. as i said before im a christain and there might be one or two things i dnt agree with in my christianity. u know as emm, k let me not quote the bible u must have come across some preachers sayin hey hey repent for the kingdom of god is coming ha fine. what happen if i have killed your grand dad, your grand mum, your uncle, your anty and your ashoawi? would i just turn up and give my heart to god under the name of born again or born 2mor humm haaaaaaaah. u crazy! but as u can see there is a high degree of toleance in christianity whether these killer religion wana hear this or not.

yes who say islam isnt preaching wisdow or something! it aint talking about man shagging man. about woman shagging woman and dog, about killing your liver with acohol. it aint talkin about blah blah etc etc. now looking from that angle i guess moselm feel like these white people have not got moral grounds to step on their buizzness. when miss world was about to be heard in nigeria these fools beat their chest and say to hell that wouldnt be held in nigeria and what happen then is history. i guess they went to their mosque and pray afterwards they went on rampage killing the christains. na wahoo to mention the few. like EFCC Boss blasted zamfara state goveron that was trying to bribe him with one million naira, he said u are the one calling for the head of the people for stealing a goat,

well nevertheless christianity and the white people are not to be said they are better than islam but niether way islam has continue to show it lack gross tolerance and its high time they get the a$$ back to the drawing table for good! however to deny they are under attack is to be complacent and naive which as an africa think they should stand and defend theirselve ! hence the need to go back to drawing table as soon as possible.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by mukina2: 11:30pm On Aug 16, 2006
we are not bad
its just that we have a lot of negativity against us cry
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by babe1(f): 5:27am On Aug 17, 2006
Anyway o, i am a Christan and married to a wonderful Muslim man. There are bad people in every religion. My husbands whole family are all Muslims but i tell you, i am glad they are my in-laws because they are the most wonderful caring people i have ever met and i know some Christan in-laws that go to church every day and they ain't as nice. It all boils down to individuals.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by grailife(m): 7:19am On Aug 17, 2006
What your hands do,
It's your own eyes that've seen.
So won't you judge your actions
To make sure the results are clean?

It's your own conscience
That is gonna remind you
That it's your heart and nobody else's
That is gonna judge.

Be not selfish in your doings:
Pass it on. (Pass it on, children)
Help your brothers (help them) in their needs:
Pass it on.

Live for yourself and you will live in vain;
Live for others, you will live again.

In the kingdom of Jah,
Man shall reign.
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on.

What's in the darkness
Must be revealed to light.
We're not here to judge what's good from bad
But to do the things that are right.

On a hot, sunny day,
Follow the shadows for rescue.
But as the day grows old,
I know the sun is gonna find you.

Be not selfish in your doings:
Pass it on.
Help your brothers in their needs:
Pass it on.

Live for yourself, you will live in vain;
Live for others, you will live again.

In the kingdom of Jah,
Man shall reign.
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on. (Pass it on)
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by grailife(m): 7:20am On Aug 17, 2006
What your hands do,
It's your own eyes that've seen.
So won't you judge your actions
To make sure the results are clean?

It's your own conscience
That is gonna remind you
That it's your heart and nobody else's
That is gonna judge.

Be not selfish in your doings:
Pass it on. (Pass it on, children)
Help your brothers (help them) in their needs:
Pass it on.

Live for yourself and you will live in vain;
Live for others, you will live again.

In the kingdom of Jah,
Man shall reign.
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on.

What's in the darkness
Must be revealed to light.
We're not here to judge what's good from bad
But to do the things that are right.

On a hot, sunny day,
Follow the shadows for rescue.
But as the day grows old,
I know the sun is gonna find you.

Be not selfish in your doings:
Pass it on.
Help your brothers in their needs:
Pass it on.

Live for yourself, you will live in vain;
Live for others, you will live again.

In the kingdom of Jah,
Man shall reign.
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on;
Pass it on. (Pass it on)
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by diyobdw(f): 8:22am On Aug 17, 2006
@babe1
You are lucky and am glad to read your views cheesy teach your family to change those around you. I was born to a mixed religion family too. There is fun in diversity( esp. when i get to feast during different festivals grin)

Hey @ gralife! u can delete the duplicate post we get the message it a nice poem though
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Greycells(m): 11:16am On Aug 17, 2006
True Muslims are one of d best people in the world. I hav met so many. Diffn people in diffn parts of the world bring their cultre to bear on religion. For instance, the people of the Middle East. Both the Arabs and d Jews are violent by nature (some people attribute it to environmental determinism, that is, d desert and they point to people living in the same region of America and Nigeria, as evidence).

MUSLIMS ARE GOOD PEOPLE, SOME BUDDISTS dt I HAVE MET ARE EVEN BETTER. qed.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Brownsuga(f): 11:22am On Aug 17, 2006
@ babyosisi

You can not claim to be seeking information regarding Islam and yet be so prejudiced.

As for your invective and painful insults against prophet Mohammed (PBUH), I can only say, as your name points out, they really point out how shortsighted, shallow and unintelligent you are.

You are insulting the very people you want to dialogue with by using denunciatory language.
You are insulting a pivotal figure in Islam (and to Muslims) and yet you want to be enlightened by them? It's hard to get the big picture when you have such a small screen.

And it is really a waste of time writing with the sorts of you and i therefore opt to stop here.

As for all others, if you have a question about Islam, please do state which Islam you are referring to (do keep in mind issues such as race, ethnicity, geographic location, language, gender, etc).

Perhaps you are talking about Nigerian Islam?!
Well, i am not Nigerian and not all Muslims are Nigerians.

Are all Muslims bad, I have never in my life heard of a more stupid question, honestly, undecided
BS
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by enugu(f): 12:19pm On Aug 17, 2006
@ Brownsuga

I schooled in the north of Nigeria, which has the greatest population of Muslims and to be honest, they can be very intolerant of any criticisms to their religion. They don't even bother to try and enlighten you even when the question is one of innocent curiousity. I agree that there are very good muslims out there and I did and still do have quite a number of muslim friends, who belie that negative image of muslims that we have today but and i emphasise, BUT, some of them get very uncomfortable when critical questions are asked of Islam, while others shift the blame to the western world. Unfortunately, for those of us who GENUINELY want to know and understand more about the religion, this leaves us wondering if Islam is a religion of peace, what is so difficult about answering questions about it then?

In fact, I remember one incident clearly when in my Form 3 (or year 9 as it is known in the UK), i picked up a Qu'ran and a senior student, (a muslim girl) snatched it out of my hand, claiming that infidels are not allowed to touch the holy book. When I inquired why, i couldn't get a coherent reply. That left a lasting impression; regardless, I still keep an open mind about Islam and muslims but when people like you for instance (and I mean this with every respect) and others on this forum do not give simple and clear answers to questions asked about Islam no matter how inane and anal they might sound, believe me, you leave open to wrong interpretation.

People have called Jesus all sorts of names, claimed he was gay and in latest development (see DA-VINCI CODE) are claiming he was married and christians in the UK, Nigeria or anywhere else are not carrying any campaigns of violence against whoever. This is is not to suggest that christians have not committed atrocities in the name of God but in the main, we believe that if God be God, let him fight for Himself; he is more than able to do that.

So my fellow forumites, can the questions on Islam be answered or should we be left with what negative impression that seems to be following muslims in today's world?
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by toney(m): 12:57pm On Aug 17, 2006
i think there is great amount of lights to be shed here, am just discovering this forum.u will hear from me soon
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 1:10pm On Aug 17, 2006
Also lived in the North,but that's not my only basis for my opinion on Islam.
You really have to thank God,that the religion means Peace.
If it has meant something else,then the whole world would be on fire.
Look out the Northern part of Nigeria,Middle East,India;Islam is so amenable to violence that they're forever on the offensive fighting Christians,Jews and Hindus.
Let's address the contemporary issues and historical facts:What religion spread from its origin by the force of arms,or promised many virgins in paradise for Jihadists killed in battle or prescribed death for change of beliefs?
How about the issue Salman Rushdie raised in 'Satanic Verses' and was sentenced to death?
I have Muslim 1st cousins who I believe are 'sensible' enough to understand the sacredness of our blood ties,but even at that I would never trust them completely with my life,you just never know. They live in Northern Nigeria and I know of a guy who attacked his own cousin during one of the numerous orgy of church burning and massacres in that part.
Don't even go near the issue of tolerance even when what you say is true.
Remember the Miss World riot in Nigeria 3 years ago(am not a supporter of Miss World anyway).
What the Thisday journalist said was that Mohammed would not have minded adding one of the girls to his harem.
Now in the light of a statement ascribed to him,that the 3 things he enjoy most in life were;prayers,perfume and women,was the violence the assertion generated justified?
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by jedkaz(m): 2:09pm On Aug 17, 2006
Basically, i dont like Much debate on Religious Issues but i know that whoever is patient enough to learn about Islam will be able to know that MUSLIMS are not bad People, Though i am not rullin out some Extremist, moreover look at the Nomber of MUSLIMS the World over and look at the Percentage of those that are BAD/EXTREMIST and you then tend to imagine if all MUSLIMS are BAD, then How Will the world be. sad
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by omoalare: 2:19pm On Aug 17, 2006
ISAHO's analysis is commendable. kEEP IT UP.
Let me make a point here, Quran is revealed based on the event and cicumstancies that prevailed at that time. That's why you see chapters like the bee, the cow, women, the ants, Mary, the table etc. Therefore, most of the quotations above does not relate to the event you guys are comparing it to. As to the hadith quoted on the killing and burning of converts, let me throw more light for your understanding.
After one of the wars in which muslims captured some idol worshipers, their (the idol worshippers) lives were spaired and they become free citizens on the agreement that they will worship Allah. It was later discovered that some of them reneged and worship idols in secret, then the punishment of burning and killing was pronounced on them. Compare this to outright killing or enslavement meted to the muslims when captured by the idol worshipers.
As to the killing in the North, lets get it straight that the killings are tribalistically motivated and NOT religion , please dont be deceived by the soo called Mallams. I have a terrible memory of a muslim brother who has his family wiped off in one of the "religious" riot just because he is a "Beribe" (Yoruba). Now what doyou call that?
Please you Christians out there dont talk about Islam if you dont know anything on Islam rather concentrate on how to unite the Celestials with the Anglicans, the Catholics with the Cherubims, the Jehovah witness with the Redeemed, the Adventist with the Methodist and promote not the advent of Gay bishops.
Please lets face issues and not go on sentiments, if you call the killing in the North Islam what do you call the genocide in Rwanda, Afghanistisn etc. There was no time any Islamic group or person (at least in the south) wage any soo called religious riot. Please i'm not criticising i'm only pleading to everyone to practise religion with morality, responsibility, fair play and all the good things it entails.
Imaging the number of churches and mosques we have yet there is increase in the number of prostitutes, smokers, drunkers, smugglers, robbers, assassins, corporate pastors and Alfas,Almajiris, political liars etc. Soo what are we talkingabout?
Let me end this contribution with these quotations
"Seek for knowledge even if it will take you from here to China" Al quran
"My people perish because they lack knowledge" The bible
"Knowledge is the lost treasure of Islam, wherever you find it grap it" Prophet Muhammed PBUH
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Neoteny(m): 2:29pm On Aug 17, 2006
@m4malik
it is rightly believed in christianity that men or mankind are instruments in the hands of God, through whom temporal actions and reactions are initiated. God is perfectly capable of doing all the deeds moses, jesus, abrahams and aaron did without so much as moving a limb but instead he chose to use such personalities for reasons not entirely clear to us. among the things not entirely clear to us is God's command for abraham to slaughter his son isaac which abraham set out to do before the poor lad was spared by an equally poor goat that God sent. it is also not entirely clear the logic of  ferocity with which god wiped out sodom and gomorrah as well as almost all life in the time of noah. and what about Er, son of judah, who was slain by god? the bible didnt say exactly what his crime was besides the rather ambiguous claim that he was "wicked in the eyes of God".(genesis 38:7). in exodus moses murdered an egyptian and yet God was not displeased, the same God who planned to kill the pharaoh's 1st born son. in exodus 9:22 God sent a hail that wiped of beasts and men alike in the fieldsof egypt in the 7th plague.in the same exodus in 11:7 God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel."

"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." exodus  22:19

At God's instructions, the Israelites "utterly destroyed the men, women, and the little ones" leaving "none to remain." deuteronomy  2:33-36

After Joshua kills all the inhabitants of Ai, burns their city, and hangs their king on a tree, he kills some animals and burns them as a "peace offering" to his warlike God.  joshua 8:31

Jael  offers food and shelter to a traveler (Sisera, Jabin's captain), saying "turn in my Lord , fear not." Then after giving him a glass of milk and tucking him in, she drives a tent stake through his head. "So God subdued on that day Jabin by Jael." judges 4:17-23

For murdering her guest while he slept, Jael is "blessed above women." (Hail Jael, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, ?) same judges 5:24-26

God smites Sihon and all his people and gives their land to Israel. judges 11:21

God delivers the Philistines into Jonathan's hand. And his very "first slaughter , was about twenty men." Not bad for a first slaughter. 1 samuel 14:12

David and Saul have a contest to see who can kill the most people for God, and the women act as cheerleaders saying, "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." 1 samuel 18:6-7

God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head.2 kings 2:23-24

God sent lions to devour the foreigners in Samaria because "they feared not the Lord," and even worse "they knew not the manner of the God of the land." Well that'll teach them about God's manners. 2 kings 17:25-26

In the largest single God-assisted massacre in the bible, Asa, with God's help, kills one million Ethiopians. 2 chronicles 14:8-14

If you ask God, he'll force heathens to be your slaves and help you "dash them in pieces." psalms 2:8-9

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." matthew 10:34-36. the same jesus who just before he was crucified told his disciples to sell their garments and purchase swords and kill their antagonists.  and dont forget the "an eye for an eye" philosophy of christ, which goes against "turning the other cheek".

(thou shalt not kill, says the 6th commandment)

now if you can find any form of justification for these acts of slaughter  it may be along along the lines of "those who do bad in the eyes of the lord should be slain", and evidently god either does the slayings himself or he had other "instruments" do it for him. in the same vein, those who forsake islam and convert, or insult the prophet of Islam do "bad in the eyes of Allah" and therefore they are slain. the justification is simply God's command, just as he commanded David and solomon and paul to slay the detractors and whoever stood against the principles of yahweh. just as he rained plague after plague and death and fire and brimstone upon the hapless egyptians just for the crimes of the pharaoh.

so muslims are not bad, we just fall victim to the categorization of the western world which has succeeded in reducing christianity to a mere farce and wants to do the same to islam. when the palestinians strap TNT on their person and murder innocent as well as guilty israelis the west and some part of the christian world call them terrorists, but when the IRA in the uk does the same it hardly makes an appearance in the evening news.  when israeli gunships and Hellfire rockets kill dozens of children in the Gaza strip or westbank or lebanon it is self-defence, but when hezbollah or hamas kills one measly israeli soldier it is terrorism.

well, whatever. the palestinians are fighting on the strength of a need for liberation, for sovereignty, and that is the root cause of the problem in the middle east. not religion. indeed, jews despise christians more than they do arabs (they crucified jesus afterall, didnt they?) and yet they have tons of christian sympathizers. if the sympathy is on humanitarian grounds, why isnt such sympathy reserved for the thousands of palestinian women and children daily murdered and indignified by the jews? are they not human beings? or are they less human than the jews by virtue of being muslims?

all the great atrocities of civilized history from the days of charles the Great (?) to the present were instigated and fought by the christian world. indeed, the monsters of modern history WERE NOT muslims. hitler was a catholic not a muslim, stalin wasnt a muslim, all the monsters and all the wars of history were the doings of the christian world. so if a couple of sucide bombers who happened to be muslims killed thmeselves and jews as well for their own personal cause we shouldnt rush to stereotype over one billion people as mindless zombies unleashed by a bloodthisty god (even though the biblical god was the epitome of blood-and-gorefest).

historically whereever you have a strong occupier and agrression against a people, the outcome is resistance. so if iraqis blowup GIs and hamas blows up jews its just the logical and expected outcome of resistance against aggression. when hitler occupied europe the Underground movement rose to resist the werhmacht, the Nazi war machine, and they were heroes, not terrorists. thank god hitler was a catholic else we would never hear the last of it!!

one of the greatest flaws of christianity (particularly nigerian christianity) is that it has made itself pliant  and susceptible to the western forces of decay and corruption smartly tagged and pawned off as "modernity'. americans have made homosexuality a trend, sex and fornication is now a very trendy lifestyle, drugs and liquor are glamorous just as gambling is an "in thing". and those same gullible christians ( not all christians have fallen for the trap) called we muslims "uncivilized" because we impose self-censorship upon our society and selves to rid ourselves of this filth. but civilization is a far cry from modernity and to mix the two is to fool yourself. we are civilized but we refuse to be modern if modernity entails going against everything god told us to stray from.

so to the originator of this thread, i suggest you refrain from asking such apologist questions and keep it firm in your mind that as true muslims we shall follow Allah's commands without question just as Abraham did.

i will say no more.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by ayinla2005: 4:01pm On Aug 17, 2006
@neoteny
may GOD continue to bless u.u have answered a BIG and insulting question in a BIG way using both bible and quran.i hope the extremist,fundamentalist and uncensored among christian will now shut up or face the wrath of Almighty GOD as against man.GOD BLESS U.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by tomi29: 4:35pm On Aug 17, 2006
@Neoteny
              Your arguement is higly flawed. Do not quote scriptures from the bible out of context. You are giving quotes without telling us the whole story. For instance David and Saul never had a contest on who could kill more people. Remember there was a war and David helped win the war which was the cause for the verse you quoted.
              Besides according to the bible Jesus came to redeem us from the law and he preached love.  You can read the bible and interpret it any way you want in as much as it justifies your argument. Gays find the bible convenient enough for their arguments, when the early christians where killing each other they used the bible to justify their acts, some used the bible to justify the witch hunt. See it depends on you  obviously you took verses out of the bible to justify  your arguments good for you I read the same verses and interpret them in another way.
         However we are in a civilized world and violence doesn't solve anything. For you to tell me Jews killed Jesus because of that they hate christians is crap you know. Last time I checked Jesus himself came as a Jew. Also, you can say the palestinians are fighting for liberation so are the Isrealis- they all are fighting for what they believe in isn't it?. Which is why I said earlier don't blame Isreal and US for the violence and terrorism we see today. If you see wrong condemn it.  What justifies killing of innocent lives some of them muslims I ask?. Nothing
       Many atrocities has been committed in the name of God/christianity. Do we justify their acts today and blame a group for what they did? No. Who in the world today considers nazis heroes?. I don't think any one in their right mind. The church has acknowledged its wrong when Pope John Paul ll apologised to the victims of the crime. When Timothy McVeigh bombed the building in oklahoma city - because according to him Americans have turned from God- how many people came out to praise him and to jusfity him?.  
   Is christianity a perfect religion? Absolutely no. Many have deviated from what I consider the essence of christianity - Love.  Is Islam all about peace these days? No.  If we all practice what we say the two religions are about LOVE and PEACE, the world will be a better place.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 4:37pm On Aug 17, 2006
neoteny and ayinla remember that before you quote scriptures out of context and make fools of yourselves,Mohammed instructed you to believe the people of the book,the Torah and the gospels,you've not read thet area I suppose.
For your information,Jesus Christ never fought any physical wars and never advocated that.
The sword in the new testament is same as the word of God.

There were wars fought in the Old testament by the people of Israel for a pupose but Christ came with the new covenant.
How many Christians have slaughtered you muslims in the name of Christ and what does the Scriptures teach on that?.

The big difference between Mohammed and Christ are as follows.

1.Christ was peaceful,preached peace and love and cautioned his followers whenever they went out of line.

2, Mo on the other hand was a perverted rapist and Child molester,had the sexual strength of 30 men as the hadiths say,fought wars and raped women he captured from war.
He even at a point said he did not know what allah would do to him at his demise,killed people at will and told them to kill apostates.
He even taught his men the proper way to rape women.

He was an opportunistic pauper who married an older rich woman and had no choice to be faithful to her till her death and then later started chasing anything in a hijab.
Thankfully he was finally done in by a Jewess who poisoned him with food.

Mo even claimed to receive revelations while under the sheets with aisha his child bride.


@Brownsuga too bad the truth cuts like a knife,osamma bin linda or bin laden
You still have not answered my questions.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Cristally(f): 6:01pm On Aug 17, 2006
By following this "fred ", my neck is swelling like a ballooon!
You people are discussing the topic "who is better" - christians or muslims.
how many people died in the name of Christ? (for example through the crusades or burned alive as witches).
How many people died in the name of Allah through the hand of "islamic" fanatics?

Didn´t you have (before the arabs and white man conquered your beautiful african Nation)
your own Gods, traditions and beliefs??

Who had the right to tell you that this things were bad, so that you laid down your OWN
religions and traditions and followed them like sheep?
For WHAT please?

Sorry but when u don´t follow your history, your OWN history - nothing will bring you salvation, not Jesus - nor Mohammad.
Think back when all this mess started that u are in now,
wasn´t it the point when u lost your history, your religion and beliefs?
Instead of fighting each other because of foreign religions you should sit together and share what u have in common - for sure not Jesus or Mohammad.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by tomi29: 6:04pm On Aug 17, 2006
@babyosisi.

Please do not get guilty of the same thing you are accusing people of. Where did you get your history lessons about mohammad?
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 6:48pm On Aug 17, 2006
2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. "(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and here dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

2c. "(5981) ’A’isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

2d. (5982) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of transmitters with a slight variation of wording." Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 29 ch.1005 no.5981-5982 p.1299

3. Sunan Abu Dawud 817-888/9 A.D. 275 A.H.

3a. "(2116) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old." Abu Dawud vol.2 no.2116 p.569

3b. "(4913) ‘A’ishah said : I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3:4913 p.1373

Note carefully this is NOT saying Mohammed had intercourse with A’isha while her playmates were watching. Rather it says the playmates played with her, and they went out when Mohammed came by, and could come back after he left.

3c. "(4915) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud said : That is to say : I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari (Helpers) in it. They said : With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other.

3d. (5916) [typo, really 4916] The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Usamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: ‘With good fortune.’ She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him

3e. (4917) ‘A’ishah said: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were [sp] up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine.

3f. (4918) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Hisham b. ‘Urwah through a different chain of narrators. This version adds: I was swinging and I had my friends. They brought me to a house ; there were some women of the Ansar (Helpers). They said : With good luck and blessing.

3g. (4919) ‘A’ishah said : We came to Medina and stayed with Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. She said : I swear by Allah, I was swinging between two date-palms. Then my mother came, and made me come down; and I had my hair up to the ears. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3:4915-4919 p.1374.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by donmayor(m): 6:57pm On Aug 17, 2006
Yeah u r so bad,
Let me say why,
When the danish cartoons were published, it harmed no one but u destroyed properties and lives for a simple cartoon. denying the holocaust is seen as a crime in Europe but Iranian president publicly denied it. An Iranian company is sponsoring a cartoon contest that ridicules the holocaust where 6 million jews died and no jew or christian has burnt down the iranian flag? You guys are not tolerant. It is only someone with Islamic blood that would strap himself with a bomb and blow himself to pieces, a jewish/christian blood would use a jet fighter or attack u face to face. I'm scared now o, I guess if u know my house u might mark it for burnin,
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 7:03pm On Aug 17, 2006
Hafsa, one of the Prophet's wives, however, caught him having intercourse with Maria in Safiya's room. 'O Prophet of God, in my room and in my day!' fulminated Safiya angrily. Afraid of the anger of his other wives, and especially of his most beloved Ayesha, he promised Hafsa never to touch Maria again if she would keep the incident secret (Ibid., p. 213). But she spoke out, and the Prophet immediately received orders from God to retract his promise to Safiya; he then resumed relations with Maria (Sura 66:3).

Maria's power over the Prophet is best described in Ayesha's words: "I never was as jealous as I was of Maria again. That is because she was a very beautiful, curly haired woman. The Prophet was very attracted to her. In the beginning, she was living near us and the Prophet spent entire days and nights with her until we protested and she became frightened." (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, p. 212)

The Prophet then decided to transfer Maria to a more secure dwelling far from his legitimate wives and kept seeing her inspite of their pressure.


Another woman that the Prophet married for satisfying his sexual desires was Juwariya Bint al-Harith who was according to Ayesha's description, 'so beautiful that whoever caught a glimpse of her fell in love with her.' (Ibid. p.117)
Ayesha's jealousy is displayed again from the following quote: "The Prophet was in my room when Juwariya came to ask him about a contract. By Allah, I hated her when I saw her coming towards him. I knew that he was going to see what I saw (her beauty)." (Ibid)


A unique instance of the effect of female beauty on the Prophet was that of Duba Bint Amr who 'was among the most beautiful of Arab women, her hair was long enough to cover all her body.'(Ibid., p. 153) Mohammed asked her son if he could marry his mother, but later retracted when he heard that Duba Bint Amr, although attractive, was aging.

This shows that Mohammed was only interested in physical beauty and not in providing protection for widows or some other charitable cuase as the Muslims have been brain washed to believe.
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 7:10pm On Aug 17, 2006
Completely unlike Jesus Christ who never had sex with a woman, Muhammad’s was sexually involved with at least 22 women. Although in the Quran he would limit his followers to having four wives, he himself took more than four wives and many concubines. The question of the number of women with whom Muhammad was sexually involved either as wives, concubines or devotees was made a point of contention by the Jews in Muhammad's day. Ali Dashti comments:

"All the commentaries agree that verse 57 of Sura 4 (on-Nesa) was sent down after the Jews criticized Mohammad's appetite for women, alleging that he had nothing to do except to take wives" (Ali Dashti, 23 Years, pp. 120-138).
Now polygamy was practiced in the Old Testament by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and Solomon. In fact when David committed adultery with Bathsheeba, God said, "Did I not give you your many wives, why have you done this thing with Bathsheeba", (2 Samuel 12:7-9 paraphrased). But the Koran claims to be a new revelation from God to man and specifically limited the number of wives to four. In Sura 4:3. This means that Muhammad sinned against the very Koran he claimed to reveal.

Although Arabs gave us Algebra, modern Muslims are quite illogical regarding most aspect of their religion. If history contradicts the Koran, history is wrong! In order to keep Muhammad sinless, Muslims will actually deny the fact that Muhammad had more than four wives. Their circular reasoning is well documented by James A. Beverly, in his book "Understanding Islam". A typical private conversation with a Muslim regarding Muhammad’s many wives will go as follows:

The Quran condemns more than 4 wives in Q4:3.
Muhammad was sinless.
Therefore Muhammad did not have more than four wives, (Because Muhammad was sinless.)
However, the facts of history cannot be changed. Informed Muslims like Muslim scholar and statesman Ali Dashti gives the following list of the women in Muhammad's life:

Muhammad’s 22 Women:

Muhammad’s 16 Wives:

1. Khadija
2. Sawda
3. Aesha
4. Omm Salama

5. Halsa
6. Zaynab (of Jahsh)
7. Jowayriyi
8. Omm Habiba

9. Safiya
10. Maymuna (of Hareth)
11. Fatema
12. Hend

13. Asma (of Saba)
14. Zaynab (of Khozayma)
15. Habla
16. Asma (of Noman)


Muhammad’s 2 concubines/slaves:

Mary (the Christian)
Rayhana
Muhammad’s 4 devoted followers who who "gave" themselves to satisfy Muhammad's sexual desires.

Omm Sharik
Maymuna
Zaynab (a third one)
Khawla
Zaynab of Jahsh was originally Muhammad's adopted son Zaid's wife. The fact that Muhammad took her for himself has been problematic to many people, Muslims included. (God does not break His Own Word and He never changes His mind. Now read Sura 33:36-38).
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by LoverBwoy(m): 7:33pm On Aug 17, 2006
Muhammed is not God, so i dont know what this google search is doing with the thread "are muslims bad"

Muhammed is Human and therefore not perfect . any way you said people shouldnt quote the bible out of context, what are u doing to undecided It all boils down to the same thing people have been sayin on the thread - people should be judged individually

The sword in the new testament is same as the word of God

Jihad according to some muslims Jihad is a personal fight/war against temptations /sins not physical
most holy books have different interpretation to different people

And as for the moderate standing up to condem terror and aggression; who are you more likely to listen to the muslim guy/girl u know personally or the media that shows you the arabs and hausas ?
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by pearl2(m): 7:34pm On Aug 17, 2006
This is quite revealing babyosisi.Never aware of some of these bits of Mohammed's life.
I only knew he  listed women as one of the things he enjoyed most.
So does anybody wonder now why suicide bombers race to their death because of the plenty virgins(not sure of the number 7 or 21) that await them in their paradise? Such debauchery!
Re: Muslims: Are We Bad? by Nobody: 7:34pm On Aug 17, 2006
Mohammed's sexual strength is equal to 30 men.

Anas said, "The prophet used to visit all his wives in an hour round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the prophet was given the strength of thirty (men). " Vol. 1:268

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