Pr0ton:
So I was pondering on this verse about faith i.e Hebrews 11:1. Soon I began to realize the implausibility of any EVIDENCE/PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved. Here are some translations of Hebrews 11:1

GOD'S WORD® Translation

Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.

King James Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

International Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists.
You have highlighted what most us have always insisted, .... That the proof of god is in the faith ( the head) of the believer.
Period.

So I began to realize why John and Paul emphasize on faith in other to have an connection with God. They also knew that there could not be any proof for God's existence. The existence of God should be accepted by faith.

Trying to know more on faith, I looked it up on Wikipedia and I got this:

"Faith is defined as confidence or trust in a being, object, living organism, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, as well as confidence based ON NO scientific, plausible, testable, demonstrable evidence whatsoever.

Again, there can't be any PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved, for the availability of PROOF nulifies FAITH. And remember, without faith it's impossible to please God. To put Heb 11:6 in a clear term, your belief in God must be on the ground of no evidence only by this your acceptable.

Then no matter how theists try to find evidence for God they'll always fail if truly their God exists. In even trying to find, the are pulling faith down and displeasing their God.

Another interesting fact is if the evidence for God is in anyway possible then God is part of nature, and not supernatural. Take air for example, you can't see it but you can prove it exists. It then becomes nature and not supernatural. The same works with any possible proof for God.

Tag: Dapo777, Herald9, Dopeyomi, Francistony, Rossike, Pesty100, Realtem, Masonkz, Davien, Kay17, AtheistD, Plaetton, Logicboy7 and every rationalmind I don't have in memory now.

Pr0ton:
So I was pondering on this verse about faith i.e Hebrews 11:1. Soon I began to realize the implausibility of any EVIDENCE/PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved. Here are some translations of Hebrews 11:1

GOD'S WORD® Translation

Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.

King James Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

International Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists.

So I began to realize why John and Paul emphasize on faith in other to have an connection with God. They also knew that there could not be any proof for God's existence. The existence of God should be accepted by faith.

Trying to know more on faith, I looked it up on Wikipedia and I got this:

"Faith is defined as confidence or trust in a being, object, living organism, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, as well as confidence based ON NO scientific, plausible, testable, demonstrable evidence whatsoever.

Again, there can't be any PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved, for the availability of PROOF nulifies FAITH. And remember, without faith it's impossible to please God. To put Heb 11:6 in a clear term, your belief in God must be on the ground of no evidence only by this your acceptable.

Then no matter how theists try to find evidence for God they'll always fail if truly their God exists. In even trying to find, the are pulling faith down and displeasing their God.

Another interesting fact is if the evidence for God is in anyway possible then God is part of nature, and not supernatural. Take air for example, you can't see it but you can prove it exists. It then becomes nature and not supernatural. The same works with any possible proof for God.

Tag: Dapo777, Herald9, Dopeyomi, Francistony, Rossike, Pesty100, Realtem, Masonkz, Davien, Kay17, AtheistD, Plaetton, Logicboy7 and every rationalmind I don't have in memory now.

plaetton:


You have highlighted what most us have always insisted, .... That the proof of god is in the faith ( the head) of the believer.
Period.

holatin:
faith/ believe

Pr0ton:


Yeah. Doesn't sound like they are different, huh.

wirinet:


What you are saying in essence is that athough the king is dancing stark naked, faith makes people believe the king is fully clothed according to the fashion sense or preference of each believer or each set of believers.

Pr0ton:


I find this a bit difficult applying it to the argument I proposed.

wirinet:


What you are saying in essence is that athough the king is dancing stark naked, faith makes people believe the king is fully clothed according to the fashion sense or preference of each believer or each set of believers.

wirinet:


I am surprised you did not get the allegory. Since you postulated that God cannot be proven, seen or tested but can only exist by faith in the mind of the believer, it is only comparable with the story of the King who was dancing naked, but the king's tailor made everybody believe be was wearing an invisible royal regalia ( i hope you know the story). People believed and told the king he was wearing the most beautiful royal regalia there is according to their faith, until a little innocent boy came along and told the king the truth.

Pr0ton:
So I was pondering on this verse about faith i.e Hebrews 11:1. Soon I began to realize the implausibility of any EVIDENCE/PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved. Here are some translations of Hebrews 11:1

GOD'S WORD® Translation

Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.

King James Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

International Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists.

So I began to realize why John and Paul emphasize on faith in other to have an connection with God. They also knew that there could not be any proof for God's existence. The existence of God should be accepted by faith.

Trying to know more on faith, I looked it up on Wikipedia and I got this:

"Faith is defined as confidence or trust in a being, object, living organism, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, as well as confidence based ON NO scientific, plausible, testable, demonstrable evidence whatsoever.

Again, there can't be any PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved, for the availability of PROOF nulifies FAITH. And remember, without faith it's impossible to please God. To put Heb 11:6 in a clear term, your belief in God must be on the ground of no evidence only by this your acceptable.

Then no matter how theists try to find evidence for God they'll always fail if truly their God exists. In even trying to find, the are pulling faith down and displeasing their God.

Another interesting fact is if the evidence for God is in anyway possible then God is part of nature, and not supernatural. Take air for example, you can't see it but you can prove it exists. It then becomes nature and not supernatural. The same works with any possible proof for God.

Pr0ton:
"Faith is defined as confidence or trust in a being, object, living organism, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, as well as confidence based ON NO scientific, plausible, testable, demonstrable evidence whatsoever.

herald9:



Unarguably true.
But do you also doubt the existence of a Creator?
That's the reason I can't still come in terms with atheist.
As a deist,I don't believe in the gods invented by man...But I believe in a Creator who doesn't interfere in the activities of it's creation.

One question I can't always answer is why someone will build a house and abandon it. Why Did he build it in the first place when he had no intention of using it...

sinequanon:


This is not a definition. It is a circular argument.

Who decides what is "scientific" or "plausible" or what constitutes a "test" or "demonstration" or "evidence"? You are transferring your faith to those people.

Pr0ton:


The current Wikipedia's definition is consistent with the general definition of faith and that from Heb 11:1.

Paul even has it in Romans 8:24b as

New Living Translation
If we already have something, we don't need to hope for it.

Pr0ton:


Maybe if you concentrate your time in studying the flaws in nature you could conclude that everything came by chance afterall. However, I do welcome the idea of Deism sometimes.

herald9:


Flaws?
Do you mind pointing out some cause I think everything about nature is perfect, well scripted and acted out on daily basis...

If there was a hitch,we'd probably be suffering from it's consequences.

macof:
Faith is the assurance and confidence in things we expect. But there's always something that gives us this "assurance"...it's either we gain this feeling of confidence through logical thoughts or evidence by weighing the sides and going totally for one...with faith there's no room for doubt because ur mind has already gone through that and conquered it.
With faith you can bring others to ur beliefs without threats and fear but laying factual points that appeal to their cognisance.

You can't preach "have faith" to others or teach them how to have faith, you can only teach them what led u to faith and it's left for them to acquire that faith

Faith is not absence of proof but trust without reservation, that is to say complete limitless trust and this can only be attained when you have factual points, undeniable facts that you have seen that suggest it's plausibility...even when u haven't seen that thing u have faith on...say it is yet to happen

Example could be Having faith in Chelsea beating West brom at home, knowing fully well that West brom are injury stroke and have an even weaker team to face in form Chelsea.

sinequanon:


I know next to nothing about religious texts.

I am just saying that most people accept scientific assertions on the same basis as they do any [other] religious assertion, i.e on faith.

Faith is all about your "confidence" in a particular "belief".

If you gain your confidence "first hand", then you are furthest removed from faith. Anything else is degrees of faith, and that includes scientific assertions.

Pr0ton:


That's where you go wrong with science. Science is based on evidence. Religion is based on faith.

Pr0ton:


That's where you go wrong with science. Science is based on evidence. Religion is based on faith.

herald9:


Flaws?
Do you mind pointing out some cause I think everything about nature is perfect, well scripted and acted out on daily basis...

If there was a hitch,we'd probably be suffering from it's consequences.

plaetton:

Sickle cell anaemia is a well known flaw in nature.
Myopia and other ocular diseases are also flaws.
Albinism, hemophilia, dwarfism, etc.
The list is endless.

Unless, of course, you want to blame the devil,.. again.

sinequanon:


That is a popular statement that few people bother to examine.

Religion is also based on evidence, e.g the Bible.

Science does not accept some religious evidence and interpretations.

Similarly, religions do not accept some scientific evidence and interpretations.

And, as I explained, science is also based on faith.

They are all a mixture of evidence, interpretation and faith.

Try and pinpoint the different. Nobody has, imo. They just resort to repetition of their position, as you have done.

Pr0ton:


That's where you go wrong with science. Science is based on evidence. Religion is based on faith.

Pr0ton:


Plaetton answered you there. In addition, study this mode of nutrition called parasitic mode of nutrition. Two participants are involved; the parasite and the host. The parasite, usually smaller than the host, feeds on its host. The host doesn't benefit, it only gets harmed in the process. Example in man is the parasite Ascaris (roundworm) which lives in the intestine. It sucks digested food from its host. The worm itself is indigestible which makes things worst. It continues its activity which eventually results to abdominal pain, indigestion, anaemia and even death if they are many. Some like the hookworms cut holes into the intestinal walls, suck blood and other fluids.

Remember the ultraviolet ray from the sun that causes skin cancer.

Pr0ton:


Even a Bible scholar would denounce your claim. What evidence is in the Bible? They are stories and teachings that are to be taken upon faith. Your told in the Bible that Jesus, a son of God (who you don't even have evidence for), came sometime to the world, died for your sins, resurrected and returned to heaven. A rational mind would reason "is this true?" then the next thing is "if you don't believe you shall perish in eternal lake of fire".. faith again.

herald9:


I don't argue with this... You're right.

But you mean all these came to be by chance?

herald9:


I don't argue with this... You're right.

But you mean all these came to be by chance?

herald9:


oopz!

Well, this shouldn't stop us from appreciating the other side of nature with it's awesomeness, amazing and complex characteristics... There must be an intelligent Creator responsible for it...

Saying it's chance is just like pointing to a house and telling me the house built itself... doesn't add up and doesn't make sense.

Someone with no name is responsible for it...It's as simple as that.
Lolz, the devil? What is that?