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Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 2:50pm On Jan 03, 2015
alienvirus:
Frosbel just pondering on the jabs Lagosshia gave him so many years ago. Following though tongue tongue tongue

I really miss my friend , lol. Where is he these days ?
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by alienvirus: 2:52pm On Jan 03, 2015
frosbel:


I really miss my friend , lol. Where is he these days ?
Seems he is in Karbala. The guy funny die. I enjoyed you guys those days. Thumbs up.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Image123(m): 3:10pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:


The Audio is not just of any mere man, but of Bart Ehrmann, who is one of the world's leading scholar on NT textual criticism and what he does in the audio if you listen carefully is claim that his statement that the gospels are not historically accurate is not a quirk of his but a widely held opinion amongst biblical scholars in all the top leading academic institutions in the US. Many of the scholars are themselves christians.

Now if you want to dismiss the claim of the world's leading scholars without even considering why they conclude that the gospels are not historical then that is totally up to you. But I believe that the reasonable thing to do is to at least consider their arguments and do some research yourself.
Rubbish fallacy of appeal to authority. Widely held opinion in his village. So the others that hold different views are mere men illiterates or is he the first person to be professor?
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 3:25pm On Jan 03, 2015
Image123:

Rubbish fallacy of appeal to authority. Widely held opinion in his village. So the others that hold different views are mere men illiterates or is he the first person to be professor?

Every opinion is an appeal to Authority. Just you like appeal to the authority of the Bible, a text whose authorship is unknown to you.

Between the authority of an erroneous book and the authority of men who've dedicated their lives to studying the matter, who are you more willing to consider.

And please note, I said consider, not believing without any critical examination. The fact that the leading scholars on a subject think one thing is enough for me to go and do research and take a critical look at their claims. That is all I ever asked of JoshtheFirst and I ask the same thing of you. I'm not a penterascal pastor trying to make you suspend critical judgment.

Perhaps you can bring us a list of those other professors that have differing opinions and let us critically examine their opinions.

1 Like

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Image123(m): 4:53pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:


Every opinion is an appeal to Authority. Just you like appeal to the authority of the Bible, a text whose authorship is unknown to you.

Between the authority of an erroneous book and the authority of men who've dedicated their lives to studying the matter, who are you more willing to consider.

And please note, I said consider, not believing without any critical examination. The fact that the leading scholars on a subject think one thing is enough for me to go and do research and take a critical look at their claims. That is all I ever asked of JoshtheFirst and I ask the same thing of you. I'm not a penterascal pastor trying to make you suspend critical judgment.

Perhaps you can bring us a list of those other professors that have differing opinions and let us critically examine their opinions.
So, you appeal to authority to stop others from appealing to other authority, basically. Hahaha.
And you assume that biblical authorship is unknown to me but known to your authority.
I am more willing to consider men who have studied and practiced and preached the Bible for decades, who themselves are intelligent minds with a palpable relationship with God, like the many brilliant men of honour who spent their lives, academia and resources in studying and translating the Bible, not to mention contemporaries like Lane, Lewis, Zacharias, Kumuyi and Adeboye. I'll take those at any time t ahead of blind Bart Ehrman who went from pretender christian fundamentalist to atheist and agnostic all together.

2 Likes

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 5:04pm On Jan 03, 2015
Image123:

So, you appeal to authority to stop others from appealing to other authority, basically. Hahaha.

stop being a muppet. I haven't stop anyone from appealing to authority. I have only encouraged you and others to do research. But you can take a donkey to the river but you cannot force the donkey to drink.


Image123:

And you assume that biblical authorship is unknown to me but known to your authority.

actually if you are paying attention I did not say that biblical authorship is known to anyone. Wake up and pay attention.

Image123:

I am more willing to consider men who have studied and practiced and preached the Bible for decades, who themselves are intelligent minds with a palpable relationship with God, like the many brilliant men of honour who spent their lives, academia and resources in studying and translating the Bible, not to mention contemporaries like Lane, Lewis, Zacharias, Kumuyi and Adeboye. I'll take those at any time t ahead of blind Bart Ehrman who went from pretender christian fundamentalist to atheist and agnostic all together.

Okay, so what do these brilliant men of honour of yours have to say about biblical authorship, let's examine it. Present their research.

oh, btw, Bart Ehrman also[b] Studied, Preached and Practiced[/b] the Bible for decades.

1 Like

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Image123(m): 5:16pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:


stop being a muppet. I haven't stop anyone from appealing to authority. I have only encouraged you and others to do research. But you can take a donkey to the river but you cannot force the donkey to drink.




actually if you are paying attention I did not say that biblical authorship is known to anyone. Wake up and pay attention.



Okay, so what do these brilliant men of honour of yours have to say about biblical authorship, let's examine it. Present their research.

oh, btw, Bart Ehrman also[b] Studied, Preached and Practiced[/b] the Bible for decades.

Please i beg you, present your view's research first.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 5:22pm On Jan 03, 2015
^^^

You are too emotional to have an objective debate with , how can you learn when you only see ONE narrow point of view ?
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 5:39pm On Jan 03, 2015
Image123:


Please i beg you, present your view's research first.
The following is a debate between Ehrmann and another bible scholar called Daniel Wallace who is one of those you call 'brilliant men of honour'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA

1 Like

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 5:45pm On Jan 03, 2015
Image123:


Please i beg you, present your view's research first.

Please do the same for your side thanks. I've already put up a video.

Oh, and something else. When Bart Ehrmann goes on about all the bible scholars that claim bible authorship is unknown it is not because he just likes dropping names or appealing to authority. It is because his authority was first being attacked. And in defence he is saying that it is not just him that has come to that conclusion but very many eminent scholars. So what we have is not just an appeal to Authorities but also an appeal to Consensus.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 5:50pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:

The following is a debate between Ehrmann and another bible scholar called Daniel Wallace who is one of those you call 'brilliant men of honour'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA


Watching....
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Image123(m): 7:09pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:

The following is a debate between Ehrmann and another bible scholar called Daniel Wallace who is one of those you call 'brilliant men of honour'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg-dJA3SnTA
Okay, that's your view's research. Thanks. I'll watch, and get back to you tomorrow.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Joshthefirst(m): 7:51pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:


The Audio is not just of any mere man, but of Bart Ehrmann, who is one of the world's leading scholar on NT textual criticism and what he does in the audio if you listen carefully is claim that his statement that the gospels are not historically accurate is not a quirk of his but a widely held opinion amongst biblical scholars in all the top leading academic institutions in the US. Many of the scholars are themselves christians.

Now if you want to dismiss the claim of the world's leading scholars without even considering why they conclude that the gospels are not historical then that is totally up to you. But I believe that the reasonable thing to do is to at least consider their arguments and do some research yourself.
I have done research. Balanced research mind you, not one-sided googling of videos and choking on spicy posts from sites like rational wiki that feed my point of view. And I still consider research and findings. But I have enough, more than enough reason to believe the bible is historically accurate, and that the bible, especially the new testament, is basically one of the most historically and archaeologically accurate books known to man.

I have read about "locational data" confirmed factually. I have considered things very carefully.

I have also based spiritual identity on these truths and have had them confirmed by God.

People will always keep fighting the truth as usual. Like Ehrmann who states we should not use biblical doctrine for our judgements and relationship with others.

2 Likes

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 7:59pm On Jan 03, 2015
Joshthefirst:
I have done research. Balanced research mind you, not one-sided googling of videos and choking on spicy posts from sites like rational wiki that feed my point of view. And I still consider research and findings. But I have enough, more than enough reason to believe the bible is historically accurate, and that the bible, especially the new testament, is basically one of the most historically and archaeologically accurate books known to man.

I have read about "locational data" confirmed factually. I have considered things very carefully.

I have also based spiritual identity on these truths and have had them confirmed by God.

People will always keep fighting the truth as usual. Like Ehrmann who states we should not use biblical doctrine for our judgements and relationship with others.

For example, what is your historical evidence or corroboration that the following happened:

…52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. 54Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"…

Matthew 27
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Joshthefirst(m): 8:09pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:


For example, what is your historical evidence or corroboration that the following happened:

…52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. 54Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"…

Matthew 27
There is geological evidence for an earthquake that occurred during the time constraints of the reign of Pontius Pilate, corresponding with the time of the crucifixion of Christ. A simple Google search will show you.

As for the resurrection appearances, I have not looked them up before.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 8:16pm On Jan 03, 2015
Joshthefirst:
There is geological evidence for an earthquake that occurred during the time constraints of the reign of Pontius Pilate, corresponding with the time of the crucifixion of Christ. A simple Google search will show you.

As for the resurrection appearances, I have not looked them up before.

Show us your evidence.

And ;

If these people did indeed rise from their tombs it means that Jesus was not the firstborn from the dead or the first to resurrect fully , since at the time these people resurrected , Jesus was dead.

Also there are no historical facts to backup this event, not even by a historian who was also a contemporary of Jesus by the name of Josephus Flavius , he did not mention this event and neither did any of the Roman historians of that age.

We need raw facts not assumptions and hearsay .
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by johnydon22(m): 8:16pm On Jan 03, 2015
Image123:
@OP,
God of course, who else.
what shocked

1 Like

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 8:25pm On Jan 03, 2015
The one wey surprise me pass na say dead bodi go enter town and town nor go scatter.

talk less of there being not a single report of the incident. Not only that but no further mention of the incident in the bible itself. surely if that happened everybody will still be talking about it even around the time of pentecost. Not a single mention of it thereafter. Haba!


frosbel:


Show us your evidence.

And ;

If these people did indeed rise from their tombs it means that Jesus was not the firstborn from the dead or the first to resurrect fully , since at the time these people resurrected , Jesus was dead.

Also there are no historical facts to backup this event, not even by a historian who was also a contemporary of Jesus Josephus Flavius , he did not mention this event and neither did any of the Roman historians of that age.

We need raw facts not assumptions and hearsay .
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 8:26pm On Jan 03, 2015
Joshthefirst:
There is geological evidence for an earthquake that occurred during the time constraints of the reign of Pontius Pilate, corresponding with the time of the crucifixion of Christ. A simple Google search will show you.

As for the resurrection appearances, I have not looked them up before.

Kindly present the evidence. Thanks.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 8:56pm On Jan 03, 2015
johnydon22:

what shocked

I tire oo.

So God sat down and wrote every word of the bible , duh ? Just like the Muslims claim the Quran fell down from heaven.

I tell you , religion puts the brain into neutral gear, so sad.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by johnydon22(m): 9:01pm On Jan 03, 2015
frosbel:


I tire oo.

So God sat down and wrote every word of the bible , duh ? Just like the Muslims claim the Quran fell down from heaven.

I tell you , religion puts the brain into neutral gear, so sad.

mehn am not just like .... what??shocked.... never actually believe a full grown man can say this... god wrote the bible... chimoooo
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Joshthefirst(m): 11:24pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:


Kindly present the evidence. Thanks.

Click here then.


frosbel:

And ;
If these people did indeed rise from their tombs it means that Jesus was not the firstborn from the dead or the first to resurrect fully , since at the time these people resurrected , Jesus was dead.
Also there are no historical facts to backup this event, not even by a historian who was also a contemporary of Jesus by the name of Josephus Flavius , he did not mention this event and neither did any of the Roman historians of that age.
We need raw facts not assumptions and hearsay .
Sorry to burst your bubble but the very passage indicated that they didn't come out of their tombs until after Christ's resurrection. Frosbel loses to the authenticity of the written word of God.

And the fact that they appeared to many is still a written fact in the bible. And once is enough. Dont you think so? You see the resurrection of THE CHRIST and the salvation he was offering was the talk of the day.That was the sound news dear PASTOR AIO. These guys' resurrection was even as a result of it.

We already have the book of history, the bible, with passages written by eyewitnesses of these accounts. With historical data that has proven to be very reliable. That is enough.

1 Like

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Joshthefirst(m): 11:33pm On Jan 03, 2015
PastorAIO:
The one wey surprise me pass na say dead bodi go enter town...
I take it you know of course that the weren't "dead bodi" and they didn't appear to the whole town publicly. They appeared to a select.

But that is besides the point. The main occasion in that day was the resurrected Christ, not these others. Goodnight Sir.

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Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 12:27am On Jan 04, 2015
[quote author=Joshthefirst post=29467957]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the very passage indicated that they didn't come out of their tombs until after Christ's resurrection. Frosbel loses to the authenticity of the written word of God.

Here , right here in your own bolded sentence , there is a contradiction between Verses 52 and 53 in Matthew Chapter 27.

Let me quote the exact scripture which by the way is not repeated anywhere else in the bible;

Matthew 27:50-53New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
50 Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last.[a] 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many.


Verse 52 says the tombs were opened when Jesus gave out his last cry and died.
Verse 53 says the tombs were opened after his resurrection.

Question : Which one is it, did the tombs open in v52 or v53 ??

When I tell dogmatic scholars like you , that the text of scripture has been tampered with you keep throwing fits. If you take a step back and examine the facts in a less dogmatic fashion, you will realise that some scribes intentionally added words, sentences and even paragraphs to either correct earlier mistakes , to make up for errors or in some cases add an outright fabrication.

You cannot eat your cake and have it, which is it, v52 or v53 ??


But, for the benefit of doubt, let us assume that they did indeed rise from their tombs, kindly answer the following questions ;

1. Does this not negate and undermine the following scriptures on the resurrection - Revelation 20:5 , Daniel 12:2 and John 5:29 or should we call this the first resurrection ??
2. These resurrected people supposedly appeared to many and I must emphasize that they appeared to people who would never have recognised them, not in a million years.
So tell us ;
- In what form did they appear to the people
- How come this major event was not recorded in any historical document of contemporary antiquity ? Not even by Josephus Flavius who was a contemporary of Jesus !!
- How come one of the earliest Christian Jewish sects (Essene - Qumran ) did not hear , record or repeat this fable/myth.

And the fact that they appeared to many is still a written fact in the bible. And once is enough. Dont you think so?

No I don't think so, God is not a Liar.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 3:21am On Jan 04, 2015
Joshthefirst:


Click here then.


I researched the link you gave. Very interesting. First, check this out:

33 A.D. Jerusalem. This earthquake(s), which is said to have occurred during the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ in Jerusalem, caused darkness over all the land, tombs to open and the ground to split open.



The source for this information is the Gospel according to St Matthew, who mentions two earthquakes.


The fact that these earthquakes in Jerusalem are not mentioned by contemporary pagan writers, or by three out of the four Evangelists, suggests that they may have been inspired by the topos of Nature's reflecting events of great importance, and hence must not be considered to refer to historical earthquakes.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/nndc/struts/results?eq_0=8178&t=101650&s=13&d=22,26,13,12&nd=display

So all you have to corroborate it is a geological discovery.

This is where it gets interesting. The research was done by a certain Steven Austin of Cedarville University. Let us find out who Steven Austin is.

Cedarville University is an accredited, Christ-centered, Baptist institution with an enrollment of 3,620 undergraduate, graduate, and online students in more than 100 areas of study.

https://www.cedarville.edu/About.aspx

Here is a little article that will tell us about the likes of Steve Austin and the problems that the scientific community have with his sort.
It is called
Creationism creeps into mainstream geology


It was easy to miss the part where the field trip leader said the outcrop formed during Noah’s Flood. After all, “During these catastrophic flood flows, turbulent, hyperconcentrated suspensions were observed to transform laminar mudflows” sounds like a reasonable description of alluvial fan processes. And “massive marine transgression” sounds scientific enough. But when creationist geologists use those phrases, they take on a very different meaning.


Admittedly I know next to nothing about geology so all these grand sounding words would have impressed me too if I am not hearing a scientist question their use of them.

But in reality, the trip was anything but a normal geology field trip. Instead, it was an example of a new strategy from creationists to interject their ideas into mainstream geology: They lead field trips and present posters and talks at scientific meetings. They also avoid overtly stating anything truly contrary to mainstream science. But when the meeting is over, the creationist participants go home and proudly proclaim that mainstream science has accepted their ideas.
It’s a crafty way of giving credence to creationism.
But is there anything mainstream scientists, or the conveners of meetings and field trips, can or should do about it?


Many attendees seemed unaware of the backgrounds of the five trip co-leaders: Steve Austin, Marcus Ross, Tim Clarey, John Whitmore and Bill Hoesch. Austin is probably the most well-known; he is chair of the geology department at the Institute for Creation Research, which describes itself as the “leader in scientific research from a biblical perspective, conducting innovative laboratory and field research in the major disciplines of science.” Austin has been very active in promoting a Noah’s Flood interpretation of the geology of the Grand Canyon.


So that is the gist of who this Steve austin guy is and where he is coming from.

During the trip, the leaders did not advertise their creationist views, but rather presented their credentials in a way that minimized their creationist affiliations. Austin introduced himself as a geologic consultant. ...
Furthermore, the field trip leaders were careful not to make overt creationist references. If the 50 or so field trip participants did not know the subtext and weren’t familiar with the field trip leaders, it’s quite possible that they never realized that the leaders endorsed geologic interpretations completely at odds with the scientific community. Even the GSA Sedimentary Geology Division had initially signed on as a sponsor of the trip (though they backed out once they learned the views of the trip leaders).



To many outside observers, those on the scientific side can sometimes come across as confrontational, while those in the creationist camp often maintain a cheerful, friendly demeanor. Ross’ presentation, and my interactions on the field trip, confirmed this observation: All the trip leaders were courteous and friendly, and seemed genuinely concerned that all attendees enjoyed a safe, pleasant trip. Although the trip leaders probably knew that I strongly disagreed with them on the science (my name badge clearly identified my affiliation with the National Center for Science Education), they were never disagreeable about it. Quite the contrary — they seemed to go out of their way to be friendly.

Regardless of the degree of friendliness of the creationist trip leaders, some in the science community may argue that an organization such as GSA should not allow creationist-led field trips. Some may go even further, and suggest that posters and talks by known creationists not be approved.
I think such actions would be a mistake.


http://www.earthmagazine.org/article/creationism-creeps-mainstream-geology

GSA is the institution your dead sea proof of earthquake was sent to. I noticed also that it was just a site showing that it was Submitted. It hadn't been peer reviewed yet. So that doesn't count as scientific evidence.

2 Likes

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by PastorAIO: 3:22am On Jan 04, 2015
Joshthefirst:
I take it you know of course that the weren't "dead bodi" and they didn't appear to the whole town publicly. They appeared to a select.

But that is besides the point. The main occasion in that day was the resurrected Christ, not these others. Goodnight Sir.

They appeared to many. That is enough to cause commotion, I think.

And furthermore the verse 52 of that chapter of Matthew said that they were raised on that day. Whether they only came out of the tombs after Jesus was risen or not is besides the point. They had already risen. Before Jesus. Like Lazarus. Before Jesus. Like the Shunammite Widow's son. Before Jesus.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Joshthefirst(m): 7:48am On Jan 04, 2015
PastorAIO:

They appeared to many. That is enough to cause commotion, I think.
And furthermore the verse 52 of that chapter of Matthew said that they were raised on that day. Whether they only came out of the tombs after Jesus was risen or not is besides the point. They had already risen. Before Jesus. Like Lazarus. Before Jesus. Like the Shunammite Widow's son. Before Jesus.

I believe the raising of Lazarus and the widows son wasn't a final event. As they died later on. Resurrection implies an event where one is raised never to die again.

2 Likes

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Joshthefirst(m): 7:59am On Jan 04, 2015
@ Frosbel: The tombs opened in verse 52. I see no record of the tomb opening in verse 53. So your much ranting was for nothing.

And the bible has the historical data we need. We do not need it to be confirmed, but indeed much of its events have been confirmed already.

Should we take the prescence of many historical legends of a flood to assume that there was indeed a global flood? Since it has been confirmed by many civilizations and sources?

Also, as common sense points out, the resurrection of the saviour was the "in thing".



Trying to insult his credentials or downplay his school of thought doesn't negate the evidence he has presented.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by RikoduoSennin(m): 8:09am On Jan 04, 2015
McSterling:
You know your "legit canon" was decided by votes of clergymen of the Catholic (Universal) Church, don't you?

I don't get what you are driving at, but let me clarify the following: Catalogues of canon bible books existed before the Council of Carthage decided in 382 C.E hence why the Apocryphal books are not found in Many bible translations.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by RikoduoSennin(m): 8:32am On Jan 04, 2015
Pr0ton:


That's a lesson for you that explains the saying, "fools run into where angels dread to enter"

So next time don't jump into arguments you have weak or no point for.




I can see how naive you are. You just believe everything written in the Bible to be true. As a sister said, the Bible didn't fall from heaven; it has history and origin. The early Christians cherry picked some books and letters and compiled them into the Bible. The Bible is a collection of stories and letters. There were more letters having the name of Paul as the author but were not incorporated into the Bible, why? They were found to be forgeries, as it was not uncommon for Christians then to forge letters in the name of any notable apostle so as to make their doctrine authoritative, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Clements are examples. They have the name of Paul has author but were not choosen because they were forged. Paul never wrote them. Same thing goes with most of the books in the Bible. Using those verses as proof that Peter wrote those books and claimed to be an eyewitness is like an ignorant loon fooling himself around here.




How laughable? Bro, go online and ask any Bible scholar whether the letters of Paul pre-date the Gospels or not. Be sure to give me a feedback.



70 - 75 AD




So we conclude that the book of John is false.

Here is from Gotquestions.org, a notable Christian website:

"There are some that believe there is good evidence to support the view that the whole New Testament, including Revelation, was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D [that's, at least, 40 years, after the death of Jesus!] It is our contention that the evidence supports the earlier dating more than it does the later dating.

There are scholars who believe the Gospel of Matthew was written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ."

Tho those scholars Gotquestions referred to got that last sentence wrong, because the Gospel of Matthew was written more than 40 years after Jesus's death, they all agree that the Gospels were written after Christ's death. That is, they are not eyewitnesses.

So bro, go back and learn a bit history. Stop staining your personality with ignorance here. It only makes you look like a brain-washed fool.[/quote]

When you have understood this very FACT: DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ FROM THE INTERNET, mostly that from Dubious sites, then we can talk calmly.


Research books written by bible Scholars for a change. Compare various various books written bey these scholars.

Research if Paul's letters pre-date the Gospel of Mark.

Are you implying that THE ORIGINAL LETTERS STILL EXIST TODAY, because these writers wrote in biodegradable materials which won't last long. HENCE EVERY PARCHMENT/SCROLLS your suppose researchers use was nothing COPY OF A COPY.

Many of these dates are based on SPECULATIONS, So if You are saying they are not accurate and the Apostles were not the writers of the bible THEN WE CAN'T TRUST EVERY SUPPOSE WRITERS OF CONTEMPORARY CLASSICAL LITERATURE FOR THE SAME REASONS TOO.

1 Like

Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by Nobody: 9:18am On Jan 04, 2015
Joshthefirst:
@ Frosbel: The tombs opened in verse 52. I see no record of the tomb opening in verse 53. So your much ranting was for nothing.

And the bible has the historical data we need. We do not need it to be confirmed, but indeed much of its events have been confirmed already.

Should we take the prescence of many historical legends of a flood to assume that there was indeed a global flood? Since it has been confirmed by many civilizations and sources?

Also, as common sense points out, the resurrection of the saviour was the "in thing".



Trying to insult his credentials or downplay his school of thought doesn't negate the evidence he has presented.

Read the scripture again and then again.

Let me try , even though you refused to answer the other questions I posed.

In v52, they were 'raised out of their tombs ' after the death of Jesus
In v53 , they 'came out of their tombs' after the resurrection of Jesus.

First off , I hope you know what RAISED means , they were raised from their Death, meaning to resurrect , except of course you want to dogmatically and dishonestly twist this scripture.

Secondly , I repeat my question, did they come out of their tombs in v52 or v53 ?

Please ; stick to facts not subjective and defensive actions. I also trust that as a ' christian ' you will be honest with your feedback.

Thanks.
Re: Who Wrote The New Testament ? by johnydon22(m): 9:33am On Jan 04, 2015
excuss i wanna ask....So some people still believe some dudes got raised from the dead when jesus died and they even walked the streets for people to see em... now this is like hollywood movie to me... daagaaaaam Walking Dead finx on my mind

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