Only God's sacrifice could pay the penalty for the sins of the world,
just a man could not pay the penalty for the sins of the world.
some teach that Jesus is just a man, they don't know the real Jesus.

Joh_14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Some say that the plain sense of the Bible is wrong,
they say look, that verse means something other than what is says.
.

.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Because you do not understand that Heavenly things are diffrent to things on earth,
you deny the bible scriptures.
.

johnw74:


There are not two true Gods, either God is mighty or God is Almighty.
I say He is Almighty.

Mar_12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
.

The keyword bolded 'TRUE' is the point. There are no two true Gods but only one true God just like Jesus himself said in John 17:3, that makes Jesus a smaller God compared to the only one called Almighty/Father/Jehovah- the only true God.

Do not be deceived, there are many beings Called God but ONLY ONE TRUE ONE which is not Jesus. Jesus lacked the quality to be called Almighty.

johnw74:
Only God's sacrifice could pay the penalty for the sins of the world,
just a man could not pay the penalty for the sins of the world.
some teach that Jesus is just a man, they don't know the real Jesus.

Joh_14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Perfect man sinned, Perfect MAN not God himself is need to rectify that sin. Genesis 3:15 God was not prophesing about himself to be the seed of the woman.

So as Thomas saw Jesus he saw the Father you mean. So is Jesus the Father himself? So men has seen the Father eh? The question you should be asking after reading a scripture like the above is, In what way is seeing Jesus like seeing the Father.

johnw74:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Some say that the plain sense of the Bible is wrong,
they say look, that verse means something other than what is says.
.

Did you Forget the phrase before the highlighted one, "The Word was with God"- How can one be WITH Himself? Can't you identify two Gods in that single verse. Only one of those two Gods has a God he answers to.

johnw74:
.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Because you do not understand that Heavenly things are diffrent to things on earth,
you deny the bible scriptures.
.

When Angels represented God Almight here on earth, they are called God eg Moses at the burning bush and Mount Sinai, visit Abraham, wrestle with Jacob. Jacob claim he saw God and lived- how?

Did you notice above, Jesus is the WAY Leading to THE FATHER/ GOD, he is NOT the Father or Part of the Father, he is just a middle man between God Almighty and Man.

You don't believe the scriptures posted,
and you try to explain why they are not true.

Through Faith, we Christians believe those verses.

johnw74:
You don't believe the scriptures posted,
and you try to explain why they are not true.

Through Faith, we Christians believe those verses.

That is really not the case.

I believe those scriptures mean a different thing from what you are portraying it to mean.

Scriptures explain one another, it does not contradict one another. Faith is not blind but based on Evidence.

So Evidence exist in the bible THAT JESUS HAS A GOD, IF THAT IS FACT, THEN LOGIC DICTATES HE IS NOT GOD ALMIGHTY. If we believe EVERYTHING Jesus said, we won't have an issue with this.

.

If we believe EVERYTHING Jesus said, we won't have an issue with this.

You say you believe everything Jesus said,
but you don't,
you change what He said to something else.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.
Which means I and my Father are God,
John affirms that: "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
The Father and the Word are God.

You don't believe Jesus and you change what He plainly said.
.

johnw74:
.


You say you believe everything Jesus said,
but you don't,
you change what He said to something else.

Baseless accusations.

johnw74:
.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jesus is the WAY leading to the Father, Jesus is not the Father (illustration: The road leading to your destination is not the destination itself, a middle man is not the same as the man at the other end)

Jesus represents the Father. No man has ever seen the Father physically is the main fact of the bible. Read John 6:46, John 5:37, John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:15,16.

johnw74:
.
Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.
Which means I and my Father are God,
John affirms that: "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
The Father and the Word are God.

Hahahaha, what you wrote above is your thought not what Jesus meant @ John 10:30, it will surprise you that Jesus explained what he meant by "I and my Father are one".

Please Read John 17:11,21 [b] "....that they may be one, even as we are one......that they may all be one even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE IN US,...."

Questions: verse 11- Jesus' disciples will be 'one' just as Jesus and the Father are one How? If Jesus is equal to God the Father then all the disciples will be equal too in the same way.

Question: verse 21- If Jesus in the Father/ the Father in Jesus means they are both the same God, Then we in them both means what? That we are all equal Gods together with them.

johnw74:
.
You don't believe Jesus and you change what He plainly said.
.

You are very wrong, I believe Jesus to the core neither did I change what he said, check for yourself.

johnw74:


Pharisees committed the unforgivable sin by saying Jesus did His miracles by the power of satan.
I wonder what is the penalty for saying Jesus is satan?
.

"And The LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words...."

- The Bible.

And The LORD said also unto Jeremiah,

"Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book."

And The LORD has said it, again and again; that His words "shall be written for
generations to come."

Thus the depth of the evil that would the wicked destroy words even greater than all that
was ever written by William Shakespeare, can be forgiven if only Shakespeare could forgive
any that destroyed of his work. And therefore, unto The LORD I cry....

Add to any but I, O LORD, that adds or removes any dot, or letter, or word from absolutely anything
that I put down as word; add to any, O LORD, that pilfers of absolutely anything that I put down as word:
add to him (or her) punishment upon punishment - may he (or her) have absolutely no acquittal before
Thee.

Let him (or her) be blotted out of the book of the living,

let him (or her) not be enrolled amongst the righteous;

let him (or her) be turned to nought and nullified altogether, all throughout eternity;

let him (or her) be cloaked a trillion times over with the heat of a furnace, even as that same nullified nought
in all eternity.

TheIkoro:


"And The LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words...."

- The Bible.

And The LORD said also unto Jeremiah,

"Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book."

And The LORD has said it, again and again; that His words "shall be written for
generations to come."

Thus the depth of the evil that would the wicked destroy words even greater than all that
was ever written by William Shakespeare, can be forgiven if only Shakespeare could forgive
any that destroyed of his work. And therefore, unto The LORD I cry....

Add to any but I, O LORD, that adds or removes any dot, or letter, or word from absolutely anything
that I put down as word; add to any, O LORD, that pilfers of absolutely anything that I put down as word:
add to him (or her) punishment upon punishment - may he (or her) have absolutely no acquittal before
Thee.

Let him (or her) be blotted out of the book of the living,

let him (or her) not be enrolled amongst the righteous;

let him (or her) be turned to nought and nullified altogether, all throughout eternity;

let him (or her) be cloaked a trillion times over with the heat of a furnace, even as that same nullified nought
in all eternity.

Did you not say, Jesus and satan are the same person?
and didn't you quote Bible scripture to try and make your point?


Is there a need to further curse yourself?
Is your fate not sealed?

TheIkoro:
"As it is written, and of Jesus,

" ''who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.'

"As it is written, and of Lucifer,

" 'For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

" 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.'

"Therefore who then can Lucifer be, if not he 'who, being in the image of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God?'

"HE THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH."

RikoduoSennin:

Hahahaha, what you wrote above is your thought not what Jesus meant

As I have said, you don't believe scripture and you change what it says.

johnw74:
Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.
Which means I and my Father are God,
John affirms that: "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
The Father and the Word are God.

These scriptures say the father and the Son are one, God and the Word are God.
You say no they mean something else.

I'm not going over this again and again with you,
most of what you say is based on what you think scripture means,
most scripture is plain and needs no explanation,
some say scripture means other than what it says to support a doctrine - belief of theirs.

.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The Apostles and all the saved are seen now by God as being one with Him,
the fullness of this happens in the twinkling of an eye when the saved are caught up to Him,
they will see Him as He is, because they will be just like Him - one with Him.

1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
.

johnw74:
.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

The Apostles and all the saved are seen now by God as being one with Him,
the fullness of this happens in the twinkling of an eye when the saved are caught up to Him,
they will see Him as He is, because they will be just like Him - one with Him.

1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
.

Did you notice " that the world may believe that thou hast sent me".

Why would the world believe is because of what Jesus said previously- the disciples being one among themselves. So how were the disciples "one" just as Jesus and the Father were? (NB: The disciples were still on Earth)

Since some humans are going to be one with Jesus and the Father and also be like him in Heaven. Are they going to Be called Almighty God too? If not, why not?

Please answer the above.

.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
.

.

johnw74:
Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.
Which means I and my Father are God,
John affirms that: "and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
The Father and the Word are God.

RikoduoSennin:

Hahahaha, what you wrote above is your thought not what Jesus meant

These scriptures say the father and the Son are one, God and the Word are God.
You say no they mean something else.
.

.
The Word did not cease being God when he was born man.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

He is God in the Spirit and the Son of God in the flesh.
.

johnw74:
.
The Word did not cease being God when he was born man.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

He is God in the Spirit and the Son of God in the flesh.
.

Thank you for the bold section, That is why When Jesus as God says repeatedly that he himself has a God he answers to it is WORTHY OF NOTE THAT JESUS ALTHOUGH BEING A GOD IS NOT THE ALMIGHTY.

Please read John 20:17, Revelation 3:2,12.

How can God have a personal God he answers to and still call himself ALMIGHTY?

johnw74:
.






These scriptures say the father and the Son are one, God and the Word are God.
You say no they mean something else.
.

John 17:11,21 says we are also one with each other and with christ and the Father- meaning according to you that WE ARE ALSO ALMIGHTY GOD too.

johnw74:
.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
.

The Father is INVISIBLE unless that word mean another thing- 1 Timothy 1:17. No man has ever seen him physically. The Only wise and True God.

If you knew anything about the Jewish religion, you would also know that Jesus has nothing to do with the God of the Hebrews nor Judaism. You have to understand how the religion of Christianity was put together as well. Am I stating that Marduk is the God of the Israelites? Hmmm... Well let's see... Yes! Because the other Gods in the surrounding Areas were of a family of the Anunnaki Gods. I think what you are forgetting here is the dates that these things were written. These things were written while they were in captivity. They didn't have monotheism with Abraham, Because they didn't take upon worshipping only one God until after the Exile. The Hebrews were said to have continually worshipped all of the other gods. So that is not monotheism. Abraham would have been a henotheist, not a monotheist. That came out with the Jews after captivity. They got their writings from the ancient Babylonian writings, when they were sent to Babylon by the Lugal Dimmer An Ki A, the king of all the Gods. There are many instances in the ancient tales that the Biblical lore was taken from. I'm not trying to proselytize anyone like the preachers. I am not a preacher. I teach Comparative religions, and compare writings from before and during certain events.

sonmvayina:
If you knew anything about the Jewish religion, you would also know that Jesus has nothing to do with the God of the Hebrews nor Judaism. You have to understand how the religion of Christianity was put together as well. Am I stating that Marduk is the God of the Israelites? Hmmm... Well let's see... Yes! Because the other Gods in the surrounding Areas were of a family of the Anunnaki Gods. I think what you are forgetting here is the dates that these things were written. These things were written while they were in captivity. They didn't have monotheism with Abraham, Because they didn't take upon worshipping only one God until after the Exile. The Hebrews were said to have continually worshipped all of the other gods. So that is not monotheism. Abraham would have been a henotheist, not a monotheist. That came out with the Jews after captivity. They got their writings from the ancient Babylonian writings, when they were sent to Babylon by the Lugal Dimmer An Ki A, the king of all the Gods. There are many instances in the ancient tales that the Biblical lore was taken from. I'm not trying to proselytize anyone like the preachers. I am not a preacher. I teach Comparative religions, and compare writings from before and during certain events.

Are you saying that all those prophesies in the old testament about jesus (also found in Judaism religious scriptures are wrong?

Are you saying that jesus and his disciples never refered to the God of the Jews(in this case isrealites) during their time on earth?

How was the religion of Christianity put together?

What where written are the dates at which these things where written to know if it I'd written in captivity or not?

If they did not worship the God of abraham, why did they then follow the God of abraham into the wilderness.?

Abraham believed (as the bible) that there are many Gods . Anything can be ur zgod as long as you worship it. But abraham believed that the God he worships is the only supreme /almighty God. That there is no other god equal to his God. If that is henptheism or monotheism , you and the scorlars that coined the word can decide.

dolphinheart:


Are you saying that all those prophesies in the old testament about jesus (also found in Judaism religious scriptures are wrong?

Are you saying that jesus and his disciples never refered to the God of the Jews(in this case isrealites) during their time on earth?

How was the religion of Christianity put together?

What where written are the dates at which these things where written to know if it I'd written in captivity or not?

If they did not worship the God of abraham, why did they then follow the God of abraham into the wilderness.?

Abraham believed (as the bible) that there are many Gods . Anything can be ur zgod as long as you worship it. But abraham believed that the God he worships is the only supreme /almighty God. That there is no other god equal to his God. If that is henptheism or monotheism , you and the scorlars that coined the word can decide.

Just look and make friend with a Jewish man and ask him the simple question who was Jesus..and hear what he has to say.Jesus did not fulfill any of the messianic prophesy.the Christians argue that Jesus will do them when he comes again, the Jews or their tradition do not have such arrangement..so if you are really interested in knowing who Jesus is i think your best bet should be to ask the Vatican...they have all the secrets stored in their secret library...miracles or parables where not part of the prophesy..

Well I guess I'm not going to get answers to the questions I asked.
On the issue of Jews/isrealites rejecting jesus and what he stood for, we need to look at what jesus came to do and what the Jews where expecting .

During the time of moses, moses led them to successful military campaigns , likewise his successor, and that enabled them to establish an independent nation . Prior to moses death, the God they worshiped told them that he will send to them someone similar to moses. They will surely be expecting that person to be a leader, someone who could stand up to the oppresive foreign leaders of their day just as moses helped them against the mighty pharaoh and the Egyptian armies , the amorites etc.
Such expectation was hightened when prophecies where made as to this mesiah coming from a kingly line. Remember the isrealites requested for a king because of the troubles they are having with neighbouring countries and those kings became a rallying point .

They still had those same expectations when jesus came. Imagine there condition, they where being ruled by succesive foreign countries for hundreds of years and generation after generation and where mostly second class citezens in their own land . Even the local King herod was not even jewish.

Then came the messiah and there expectations where heightened, they welcomed him as their king, to release them from their bondage, high tax, inability to fully do things their own way. Only for jesus to tell them that that is not what he came for, that he won't fight, he won't lead an army, that if them slap you right cheek, turn ur left to them .

The religious and political leaders who did not like jesus anyway cus he is not one of them and does not support their ways siezed these as an opportunity to paint jesus in a bad way and safeguard their positions.
They(the isrealites and Jews) said (and are still saying )he is not the messiah cus he did not fufill their own understanding of the prophesies as they where expecting a strongman from the elite class to liberate them from foreign rule .

So dnt expect a present dat jewish man in Judaism to agree that jesus is the messiah

They have payed the price in so many ways since then
1. There temple was destroyed
2. They lost there identity as a nation (most Jews are not really abrahams Descendants today)
3. They still dnt have an earthly king
4. They have been rejected by their God.

Jesus spoke with parables mainly because he knew that the Jews where not ready to understand what he had to tell them.