.

Justfollowit:


From what I have read so far, I am of the opinion that theain factor is misconception of the Western world prior to their migration followed by absolutism and lack of integration.

Sirshymex

Babes, I'm not home yet. I will post what I think in a bit, based on my opinion, and discussions with other folks in the past.

The trend is really troubling. And what is more troubling is the number of black youths getting sucked into the madness.

@Justfollowit

I'll keep it concise.

I'll just be as honest as I can without taking sides. Let me start by saying I was raised in the 90s (born in the late 80s), and back then there weren't that many immigrants (minorities) in the UK - ditto Europe.

Then came the EU, followed by the election of Tony Blair as the PM. As we got into the new millennium - globalisation became new the kid on the block. So, to enable globalisation work, the countries in Europe had to effect liberal policies, and move away (on the surface) from the Judeo-Christian foundation - to allow more folks from 3rd world countries in, and continue to build economies of the EU zone. That created a lax in immigration rules. Thus making the countries more secular for new migrants feel at home.

As that was happening - 9/11 struck. And subsequently the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Then the savagely videos and pictures of innocent folks being maimed in those countries started trickling in, with angry refugees from those countries finding new homes in Europe. Hate towards Europe started growing in the Muslim/Arab communities across Europe. And Muslim hate preachers started preying on these vulnerable folks to preach hate. That was the genesis of extremism in Europe. Also, since then, European countries and their big brother in America have been bombing Muslim countries with impunity - and that keeps fueling the hate. Furthermore, with the liberal policies effected in Europe to accommodate all and sundry in the new millennium, they know they have rights to act how they want, without being prosecuted. So, it isn't going to stop any time soon.

An average Muslim has a misguided knowledge about their religion. They used to rely solely on what they are are being taught by the overzealous and extremist imams. If the foundation is bad.... what can the Europeans do.

The problem is related to feminism and its policies in Europe.

Religious extremism isn't exclusive to Islam, it exists in other religions just that it is worst in some than in other.

As someone pointed out, I do believe the liberal policies of the Western World is partly responsible.

Also, poverty can not be left out as one of the possible causes. Looking at the world map, one finds that places where religious extremism is high are poverty-stricken regions, disproportionately high number of emigrants to Europe, and unfortunately of the Islamic persuasion.

When such people gets to Europe they aren't exactly better off, which provides a fertile ground for extremist indoctrination.

I do find it annoying, as a person of a faith whose best friends are mainly of another faith, when people tags them violent.

SirShymex:
@Justfollowit

I'll keep it concise.

I'll just be as honest as I can without taking sides. Let me start by saying I was raised in the 90s (born in the late 80s), and back then there weren't that many immigrants (minorities) in the UK - ditto Europe.

Then came the EU, followed by the election of Tony Blair as the PM. As we got into the new millennium - globalisation became new the kid on the block. So, to enable globalisation work, the countries in Europe had to effect liberal policies, and move away (on the surface) from the Judeo-Christian foundation - to allow more folks from 3rd world countries in, and continue to build economies of the EU zone. That created a lax in immigration rules. Thus making the countries more secular for new migrants feel at home.

As that was happening - 9/11 struck. And subsequently the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Then the savagely videos and pictures of innocent folks being maimed in those countries started trickling in, with angry refugees from those countries finding new homes in Europe. Hate towards Europe started growing in the Muslim/Arab communities across Europe. And Muslim hate preachers started preying on these vulnerable folks to preach hate. That was the genesis of extremism in Europe. Also, since then, European countries and their big brother in America have been bombing Muslim countries with impunity - and that keeps fueling the hate. Furthermore, with the liberal policies effected in Europe to accommodate all and sundry in the new millennium, they know they have rights to act how they want, without being prosecuted. So, it isn't going to stop any time soon.

Most Muslims see Western invasion in Middle East as advancing some sort of ideology whose principle is to destabilise Islam. Like you mentioned it has been easy to prey on that notion to spread hate. However in reality the primary reasons are political and economical they might have use religion as a tool to achieve their selfish aims. Convincing extremists would be very difficult when there seem to no end to the continuing interference in the region. Hence when I speak to blacks I advice them to put them in their prayers but focus on their own region.

Backed by research, it is settled that most extremist are driven by personal reasons and not religion. Religion seems to be the perfect tool express the deep seated psychological issues. Most blacks they recruit are from dysfunctional homes and like other recruits (converts and reverts) who are searching for answers; the meaning of life and a reason for living an absolutist ideology obviously is a perfect fit.

What actually brought this up was a debate I had with a couple of friends. Some believed integration or re-integration is the solution, in my opinion it is only going to be effective for beliefs fuelled by personal psychological issues (mostly converts) but for those who have chosen to believe that Muslims are deliberately targeted it is not going to work. While the other was pro-EU values and history, believed in the non-recognition of Islam as religion within EU, I saw no point in arguing with them .


_{My conspiracy theory on the conflict in the East: . I think undermining the peace in the East is paramount to the West's survival as the world's influential region. If the East could in harmony and peace have a common ground or establish a Caliphate based on the majority's religion, that would be the West's bane.}

DollyParton1:
An average Muslim has a misguided knowledge about their religion. They used to rely solely on what they are are being taught by the overzealous and extremist imams. If the foundation is bad.... what can the Europeans do.

I disagree, as a Muslim I know many Muslims that would never harm a fly and likewise I have met a few who believed that violence is the answer. It is too convenient for you to blame the actions of a very few on the majority who are just tying so hard to escape the throes and move on.

talktofemi:
Religious extremism isn't exclusive to Islam, it exists in other religions just that it is worst in some than in other.

As someone pointed out, I do believe the liberal policies of the Western World is partly responsible.

Also, poverty can not be left out as one of the possible causes. Looking at the world map, one finds that places where religious extremism is high are poverty-stricken regions, disproportionately high number of emigrants to Europe, and unfortunately of the Islamic persuasion.

When such people gets to Europe they aren't exactly better off, which provides a fertile ground for extremist indoctrination.

I do find it annoying, as a person of a faith whose best friends are mainly of another faith, when people tags them violent.

I am well aware that it is not exclusive to Islam but presently it is causing so much outcry which is indirectly giving rise to far right movement in Europe if this is allowed to happen it will be the Muslim version of pogrom all over again.

As for the iberal policies in the West, the ECtHR is to be blamed for that. I find it confusing. If you cannot take a life or a suspected terrorist or subject to torture or inhumane and degrading treatment because you claim advocate some values then Europe should be ready to bear the consequences.

Justfollowit:


I disagree, as a Muslim I know many Muslims that would never harm a fly and likewise I have met a few who believed that violence is the answer. It is too convenient for you to blame the actions of a very few on the majority who are just tying so hard to escape the throes and move on.

Noticed "an average Muslim"?
I have more Muslim close friends than Christians. I have sat down with them and discussed religion in general and all the perceived stereotyping attached to Islam as a religion. And I noticed one common conclusion they come to like 80% of the time is the misinterpretation of the Quran on the part of the violence perpetrators. This misinterpretation did not stem from them studying the Quran, no, they got it from the Islamic scholars who had taught them that violence is the way.

DollyParton1:

Noticed "an average Muslim"?
I have more Muslim close friends than Christians. I have sat down with them and discussed religion in general and all the perceived stereotyping attached to Islam as a religion. And I noticed one common conclusion they come to like 80% of the time is the misinterpretation of the Quran on the part of the violence perpetrators. This misinterpretation did not stem from them studying the Quran, no, they got it from the Islamic scholars who had taught them that violence is the way.

OK

But your use ‘average Muslim' could be translated to a typical Muslim when it is only a very few who believed in terrorism.

Justfollowit:


Most Muslims see Western invasion in Middle East as advancing some sort of ideology whose principle is to destabilise Islam. Like you mentioned it has been easy to prey on that notion to spread hate. However in reality the primary reasons are political and economical they might have use religion as a tool to achieve their selfish aims. Convincing extremists would be very difficult when there seem to no end to the continuing interference in the region. Hence when I speak to blacks I advice them to put them in their prayers but focus on their own region.

Backed by research, it is settled that most extremist are driven by personal reasons and not religion. Religion seems to be the perfect tool express the deep seated psychological issues. Most blacks they recruit are from dysfunctional homes and like other recruits (converts and reverts) who are searching for answers; the meaning of life and a reason for living an absolutist ideology obviously is a perfect fit.

What actually brought this up was a debate I had with a couple of friends. Some believed integration or re-integration is the solution, in my opinion it is only going to be effective for beliefs fuelled by personal psychological issues (mostly converts) but for those who have chosen to believe that Muslims are deliberately targeted it is not going to work. While the other was pro-EU values and history, believed in the non-recognition of Islam as religion within EU, I saw no point in arguing with them .

_{My conspiracy theory on the conflict in the East: . I think undermining the peace in the East is paramount to the West's survival as the world's influential region. If the East could in harmony and peace have a common ground or establish a Caliphate based on the majority's religion, that would be the West's bane.}

Well, I'll say the rise in extremism in Europe has a lot to do with the rise in the Muslim population across Europe and the so-called "War on Terror." It's not an individual thing, but Islam definitely plays a role. Integration isn't the solution - and no matter how folks integrate, you can separate them from their beliefs/faith. And as long as they feel folks with the same beliefs/faith are being unjustly targeted, they'll always feel a certain way.

That said, I've got no problems with Islam as a religion. And what's happening now is no different from the Christian crusaders who did the same thing when Christians were persecuted during the dark-middle ages, when Islam was the dominant religion.

With black youths, I can speak more on that. I believe it has more to do with how disenfranchised a lot of guys in the black community are. Most grow up with a sense of entitlement to the society. However, the same society doesn't really care about black people. Coupled with the fact that love is non-existent in most black families today, especially those from broken homes. Evidently, after feeling an entitlement to something, and later discover that you're entitled to fvck all - you will have a case of people who've a "chip on their shoulder" and a "fvck the world mentality" cos no one really cares about them. And that's what Islam/Muslim-preachers exploit with the message of Islam as the love they have always wanted, and the religion to save the black man. A lot of people don't know how bad it's today, in black communities in the UK. A look at how having beards like Muslims has become part of fashion everywhere is an example. Then converting to Islam is now a norm, with Muslim/Arab words like, "Akhi" (brother) etc. becoming part of mainstream black British lingo. It's troubling.

DollyParton1:
An average Muslim has a misguided knowledge about their religion. They used to rely solely on what they are are being taught by the overzealous and extremist imams. If the foundation is bad.... what can the Europeans do.

@text in bold. I think it's the same with Christianity. The only difference is that the doctrine in Islam is more violent, like the Old Testament in the Bible - while Christianity today is more about the New Testament and love. Coupled with the fact that most Muslims feel their belief system, or people of the same faith are being targeted for persecution by the powers that be.

Before the "war on terror" - Muslim terrorism wasn't as rampant as it's today. I'd say there were actually more cases of Christian terrorists than Muslim ones back then.

SirShymex:


@text in bold. I think it's the same with Christianity. The only difference is that the doctrine in Islam is more violent, like the Old Testament in the Bible - while Christianity today is more about the New Testament and love. Coupled with the fact that most Muslims feel their belief system, or people of the same faith are being targeted for persecution by the powers that be.

Before the "war on terror" - Muslim terrorism wasn't as rampant as it's today. I'd say there were actually more cases of Christian terrorists than Muslim ones back then.

But thats when the importance and functions of pastors comes in. I am glad that they are at least not teaching violence, even though they are teaching some other twisted doctrine.
Though I won't rely solely on my Pastor and that's one thing most Christians know.

DollyParton1:


But thats when the importance and functions of pastors comes in. I am glad that they are at least not teaching violence, even though they are teaching some other twisted doctrine.
Though I won't rely solely on my Pastor and that's one thing most Christians know.

So, you're very religious, no? - I like that. But you've got a big mouth on you though lol.

In as much as I don't think majority of Imams preach violence, I think Muslims need to modify their religion like Christians did. Even the traditional Churches, like: Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Orthodox et al have all modernised their doctrines, with the new testament as the nucleus (like pentecostal churches) - and being "Christ-like" as the only way to salvation. If it had been just the old testament, like it used to be, it might be different.

Anyhoo, I believe Yoruba Muslims aren't violent - what do you think is the reason for this anomaly since you're Yoruba?

As long as majority of muslims believe that Al- qaeda is an american creation, that Isis is a mossad backed op,and that Bokoharam is Goodluck's funded organisation to reduce north's voting population, extremism will continue to thrive,muslims believe too much in conspiracy theories, anybody who loves blaming others for his problems, will hardly change

SirShymex:


So, you're very religious, no? - I like that. But you've got a big mouth on you though lol.

Anyhoo, I believe Yoruba Muslims aren't violent - what do you think is the reason for this anomaly since you're Yoruba?

yes I am a Christian.

And Yoruba Muslims being liberal is because
1. Their level of Education and exposure.

2. The fact that in a typical Yoruba families, both religions are interwoven. For example, some of my first cousins are Muslims and its like that in most Yoruba families. Even some families have father and mother practising different religions and the children practising both at first and decide which one they want to practice later. Or they are both brought up in the father's religion while still having a basic understanding of their mum's religion.
So I think an average Yoruba grew up with the ideals of religious tolerance. Though we still can find some extremist amongst them.

ebamma:
As long as majority of muslims believe that Al- qaeda is an american creation, that Isis is a mossad backed and that Bokoharam, is a Goodluck's funded organisation to reduce north's voting population, extremism will continue to thrive,muslims and africans believe too much in conspiracies, anybody who loves blaming others for his problems, will hardly change

exactly!!!
I remember I was discussing Boko haram with my classmate who is a Canadian Muslim of Pakistani origin back in 2012/2013 ish. And the guy was trying to force the conspiracy theory down my throat. He was telling me America is behind the Boko Haram bombings going on in Nigeria because of the crude oil. He believed America just wanted to distabilize the economy of Nigeria. So they are framing up the Muslims. I could imagine if I was gullible enough, I would have bought into such conspiracy theory, which I could actually see then that some Nigerian had shamelessly bought into and were blaming USA.
And to imagine such theory of conspiracy was coming from a Canadian who was in his final year in medical school shows how deep all these "the America/the world is against Muslims" has eaten into the mind of an average, educated and exposed Muslim.

DollyParton1:

exactly!!!
I remember I was discussing Boko haram with my classmate who is a Canadian Muslim of Pakistani origin back in 2012/2013 ish. And the guy was trying to force the conspiracy theory down my throat. He was telling me America is behind the Boko Haram bombings going on in Nigeria because of the crude oil. He believed America just wanted to distabilize the economy of Nigeria. So they are framing up the Muslims. I could imagine if I was gullible enough, I would have bought into such conspiracy theory, which I could actually see then that some Nigerian had shamelessly bought into and were blaming USA.
And to imagine such theory of conspiracy was coming from a Canadian who was in his final year in medical school shows how deep all these "the America/the world is against Muslims" has eaten into the mind of an average, educated and exposed Muslim.

an hausa educated muslim is worse, i remember talking about bokoharam with this hausa guy, dude told me that Its jonathan that is funding bokoharam, that he is doing it to reduce the north's voting population, because he knows that the northeast is Buhari's stronghold, i tried as much as i could to convince him otherwise but dude still maintained his stance,
muslims always feel that its them against the world, and that people of other religions hate them and are trying to exterminate 'em, which is totally false

DollyParton1:

yes I am a Christian.

And Yoruba Muslims being liberal is because
1. Their level of Education and exposure.

2. The fact that in a typical Yoruba families, both religions are interwoven. For example, some of my first cousins are Muslims and its like that in most Yoruba families. Even some families have father and mother practising different religions and the children practising both at first and decide which one they want to practice later. Or they are both brought up in the father's religion while still having a basic understanding of their mum's religion.
So I think an average Yoruba grew up with the ideals of religious tolerance. Though we still can find some extremist amongst them.

I like that. But when are you going to let salvation have control over ya mouth? I want you to join my ministry.

Anyhoo, in as much as I agree with your 2nd point, I disagree with the first one. I think it has more to do with most folks seeing themselves as Yoruba first, before religion and, Yoruba consciousness.

A lot of these extremists are highly educated and they have a great deal of exposure. Just take a look at ISIS and sophisticated it's and you'll get a better understanding. Ditto how highly educated, articulate, and well-travelled a lot of the hate preachers are. I believe it has more to do with them taking religion too seriously, and viewing attack on Muslim countries as an attack on their religion. Islam preaches brotherhood, and that's how they view the dynamics of the world.

SirShymex:


I like that. But when are you going to let salvation have control over ya mouth? I want you to join my ministry.

Anyhoo, in as much as I agree with your 2nd point, I disagree with the first one. I think it has more to do with most folks seeing themselves as Yoruba first, before religion and, Yoruba consciousness.

A lot of these extremists are highly educated and they have a great deal of exposure. Just take a look at ISIS and sophisticated it's and you'll get a better understanding. Ditto cated, articulate, and well-travelled a lot of the hate preachers are. I believe it has more to do with them taking religion too seriously, and viewing attack on Muslim countries as an attack on their religion. Islam preaches brotherhood, and that's how they view the dynamics of the world.

When u compare an average Yoruba Muslim to their hausa counterparts. You will see the difference in reasoning mostly based on their level of enlightenment.
And those well trained and highly educated, so sophisticated and well articulated ones are the extremists which is common to all religions, race and tribes.

And Ijebu boy what is wrong with my mouth? Is it smelly or why does it need salvation.

DollyParton1:


When u compare an average Yoruba Muslim to their hausa counterparts. You will see the difference in reasoning mostly based on their level of enlightenment.
And those well trained and highly educated, so sophisticated and well articulated ones are the extremists which is common to all religions, race and tribes.

And Ijebu boy what is wrong with my mouth? Is it smelly or why does it need salvation.

I agree and I like the word "enlightenment." However, in the case of the Yoruba Muslims, I think it has more to do with cultural consciousness, and self-awareness.

Anyway, hopefully, folks will change their ways, and start taking religion for what it's is: a form of spirituality to communicate with God, and for morals.

Ibadan chic, you get abusive sometimes. And you can't be doing that to the Duke of Ijebuland and Ibadan chics, else I won't kiss you. You should be cooking for me, and singing for the young king all the time, like a proper Yoruba woman.

SirShymex:



Ibadan chic, you get abusive sometimes. And you can't be doing that to the Duke of Ijebuland and Ibadan chics, else I won't kiss you. You should be cooking for me, and singing for the young king all the time, like a proper Yoruba woman.

Lol..... u write like this and u dont want me to get abusive sometimes?
But really am a nice and gentle lady.... maybe? No? Yea?

DollyParton1:


Lol..... u write like this and u dont want me to get abusive sometimes?
But really am a nice and gentle lady.... maybe? No? Yea?

Lol. If you say so.

And I'm supremely gentle and reserved (true story - the gyaldem know). So, when am I seeing more pictures?

SirShymex:


Lol. If you say so.

And I'm supremely gentle and reserved (true story - the gyaldem know). So, when am I seeing more pictures?

You? Reserved and gentle supremely?
Lawd Jesus.......be a fence.....

DollyParton1:

You? Reserved and gentle supremely?
Lawd Jesus.......be a fence.....

The more you look, the less you see - and the real world is the real world.

Let me see more pics of ya sexiness.

SirShymex:



Let me see more pics of ya sexiness.

its not Xmas yet.
And no aint gonna derail this thread with U.
so am out.

DollyParton1:

its not Xmas yet.
And no aint gonna derail this thread with U.
so am out.

Lol. It's still Xmas season...need more shots of that badonkadonk.

Ite...back to thread. Shout me whenever you're ready to gimme more eye candy.

SirShymex:


So, you're very religious, no? - I like that. But you've got a big mouth on you though lol.

In as much as I don't think majority of Imams preach violence, I think Muslims need to modify their religion like Christians did. Even the traditional Churches, like: Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Orthodox et al have all modernised their doctrines, with the new testament as the nucleus (like pentecostal churches) - and being "Christ-like" as the only way to salvation. If it had been just the old testament, like it used to be, it might be different.

Anyhoo, I believe Yoruba Muslims aren't violent - what do you think is the reason for this anomaly since you're Yoruba?

At the bold: Culture

Yoruba culture allows for worshipping of different deities or orishas. In a household it is not rare to find Sango and or Obatala worshippers together. This have have imbued a high level of religious tolerance within them.

[quote author=SirShymex post=30058675]

Well, I'll say the rise in extremism in Europe has a lot to do with the rise in the Muslim population across Europe and the so-called "War on Terror." It's not an individual thing, but Islam definitely plays a role. Integration isn't the solution - and no matter how folks integrate, you can separate them from their beliefs/faith. And as long as they feel folks with the same beliefs/faith are being unjustly targeted, they'll always feel a certain way.

http://dougsaunders.net/2013/04/muslim-immigrants-terrorists-jihad-terrorism/

I doubt it is the rise of Muslim population, a political correct way of putting would be you could say on the average that the more Muslims we have the more chance of 1/1000 deviating from the religion . On integration, I am of the opinion that it may partly work that was why I distinguished Arab Extremists from Western Extremists, most Western Extremists are converts based on personal reasons. the reason you gave about black guys converting to Islam is a personal one. If it is effective, they will see themselves like the way Yoruba Muslims do.

That said, I've got no problems with Islam as a religion. And what's happening now is no different from the Christian crusaders who did the same thing when Christians were persecuted during the dark-middle ages, when Islam was the dominant religion.

Yeah but to be practical I see no end to Religious extremism in as much folks continue to hold the opinion that military intervention and interference is a crusade, weapons keep getting into the wrong hands and they keep taking sides, acting as the world's police and making democracy a do or die affair. on the flip side, we cannot ask them to stop interfering, they have to extinguish the fire they started themselves by proffering objective solutions.

With black youths, I can speak more on that. I believe it has more to do with how disenfranchised a lot of guys in the black community are. Most grow up with a sense of entitlement to the society. However, the same society doesn't really care about black people. Coupled with the fact that love is non-existent in most black families today, especially those from broken homes. Evidently, after feeling an entitlement to something, and later discover that you're entitled to fvck all - you will have a case of people who've a "chip on their shoulder" and a "fvck the world mentality" cos no one really cares about them. And that's what Islam/Muslim-preachers exploit with the message of Islam as the love they have always wanted, and the religion to save the black man. A lot of people don't know how bad it's today, in black communities in the UK. A look at how having beards like Muslims has become part of fashion everywhere is an example. Then converting to Islam is now a norm, with Muslim/Arab words like, "Akhi" (brother) etc. becoming part of mainstream black British lingo. It's troubling.

I see no problem if they convert to Islam becuase it gives them solace however if it is to act out their psychopathic sides, we certainly do not want them at all. Well, the more the merrier for Black diasporan Muslim ladies .

Justfollowit:
I doubt it is the rise of Muslim population, a political correct cool way of putting would be you could say on the average that the more Muslims we have the more chance of 1/1000 deviating from the religion sad . On integration, I am of the opinion that it may partly work that was why I distinguished Arab Extremists from Western Extremists, most Western Extremists are converts based on personal reasons. the reason you gave about black guys converting to Islam is a personal one. If it is effective, they will see themselves like the way Yoruba Muslims do.

Integration isn't the answer. Most of the home-grown terrorists are well integrated into the British culture. Ditto Black Brits. However, that hasn't changed anything. With Yorubas, it has more to do with innate Yoruba spirituality/consciousness, and being Yoruba first before religion. With Black Brits, it has to do with disenfranchisement and institutionalised racism. But with Arab (either homegrown or migrants) - this is more about brotherhood and their home countries.

Yeah but to be practical I see no end to Religious extremism in as much folks continue to hold the opinion that military intervention and interference is a crusade, weapons keep getting into the wrong hands and they keep taking sides, acting as the world's police and making democracy a do or die affair. on the flip side, we cannot ask them to stop interfering, they have to extinguish the fire they started themselves by proffering objective solutions.

What fire did they start? All the invasions were done based on false premise, with no justification whatsoever. You can't make an argument for none of them, to be honest.

I see no problem if they convert to Islam becuase it gives them solace however if it is to act out their psychopathic sides, we certainly do not want them at all. Well, the more the merrier for Black diasporan Muslim ladies

Lol. You sound selfish. So, you basically won't mind if black folks become the face of terrorism just cos you want more black muslims, no? - sad. You might have to leave that religion before I start taking you seriously. Or perhaps, change to the Nation of Islam.

SirShymex:


Lol. You sound selfish. So, you basically won't mind if black folks become the face of terrorism just cos you want more black muslims, no? - sad. You might have to leave that religion before I start taking you seriously. Or perhaps, change to the Nation of Islam.

Is it wrong to selfish? well, I am very selfish. and you totally misunderstood my post.

What i was trying to convene is that I wouldnt mind black converts provided they stick to Islam not its twisted interpretations.