Empiree:
Don't let African Americans hear this. You will be laughed

Again, this is for her and chiedu7. Did i start pointing fingers at Christianity here?. Do yourself a favor go through this and see for yourself. Oh wait o, i didn't see you condemned them for nuisance they constitute on NL. You only viewed and commot.

Look at my profile, is there any anti-Christianity thread there?. Compare mine to those fanatics see who breed hatreds

Are you really arguing that African Americans are too ignorant to realise the reality of slavery in Africa? That islam didnt pre-date christianity in dealing with Africans?


Secondly, I don't relate too well with some of the fanatics you mention. I feel you should be smarter

AllNaijaBlogger:

Secondly, I don't relate too well with some of the fanatics you mention. I feel you should be smarter

Then take your time to relate with them cus i dont know why you even questioning me about them.

And whatever Arab slave masters did in Africa was clearly not as terrible as White Christians did. Arabs' attempts on Africa was strictly restricted to N. Africa and maybe Eastern EU. Unlike Christianity, that's complete slavery and colonization of not only countries but continents: Middle East, Africa, Asia and Caribbean and even South America. So basically the whole world. That's Christianity for you.

Besides, Islam itself forbids people from taking slaves or people against their will. Islam does recognized Arabs involved in slavery but gradually abolished it until revelation of Qur'an was complete. Now that Qur'an is complete and prophet delivered the message and passed it's forbidden for anyone to own slaves Any muslim who does that in modern time does it at his own mischief

Empiree:
Then take your time to relate with them cus i dont know why you even questioning me about them.

And whatever Arab slave masters did in Africa was clearly not as terrible as White Christians did. Arabs' attempts on Africa was strictly restricted to N. Africa and maybe Eastern EU. Unlike Christianity, that's complete slavery and colonization of not only countries but continents: Middle East, Africa, Asia and Caribbean and even South America. So basically the world. That's Christianity for you.

Besides, Islam itself forbids people from taking slaves or people against their wills. Islam does recognize Arabs involved in slavery but gradually abolished it until revelation of Qur'an was complete. Now that Qur'an is complete and prophet delivered the message and passed it's forbidden for anyone to own slaves Any muslim who does that in modern time does it at his own mischief

The interesting thing here is that it was a fellow muslim of yours that pointed me to these links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_religion#Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

It seems that you don't really know much about the history of your religion. Peace.

Liekiller more MB to your phone. This is truly "hitting the nail on the head".

Its so sickening the way many of this drug addicts who hide under the guise of christianity and Islam always try and shove their opinions down peoples throat. They always tend to take the laws of their religion to be the law for all.

I've often heard many moslems say "the laws of the Koran is above the laws of Nigeria".

The level of shallow mindedness exhibited by many of this Christians and Moslems in choking!.

AllNaijaBlogger:



The interesting thing here is that it was a fellow muslim of yours that pointed me to these links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_religion#Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

It seems that you don't really know much about the history of your religion. Peace.

Smh....wikipedia...i knew you have ulterior motives from the beginning. thanks but no thanks

Ifeann:

Chiedu7 u are right. . Mohammed thought the earth was flat. .u can Google for the hadiths that show this error in thinking by the prophet. .this is why Muslims are commanded to face the kabba in mecca during prayer so as not to point their butt.s to it. . However the joke is on Muslims because the earth is spherical hence their butt.s are pointed to it regardless..

You might enjoy Abuzola/Olabowale vs Viaro:
www.nairaland.com/352044/bible-says-earth-flat-while

Empiree:
Smh....wikipedia...i knew you have ulterior motives from the beginning. thanks but no thanks

lol......every site is anti-islam. I know. Thanks

Liekiller:


The root of Africa's undervelopment today IS colonialism. The destruction of entire societies and cultures was by no means a "liberation", and it's a terrible thing to say that. I'm not denying that a lot has gone wrong after it ended too, but the root lingers on and doesn't help matters. The religious madness we see today is a symptom as well as a cause of underdevelopment. I certainly don't say atheism is the solution to this. It's not, and it's not even my goal to change anyone's belief. But: increasing fanaticism is a huge worry nowadays. Ironically, this variety of Christianity is strongly supported, imported and financed by outlandish churches in the US. So, according to you the "liberation" continues. And I can tell you I'm not happy about it.

Please explain to me how christianity is responsible for Nigeria's underdevelopment years after colonization.

AllNaijaBlogger:




lol......every site is anti-islam. I know. Thanks

You are not serious. Is this thread about islam at all?. Did u even care who tried to derail this thread ? Na u sabi

Empiree:
You are not serious. Is this thread about islam at all?. Did u even care who tried to derail this thread ? Na u sabi

Thanks

SNCOQ3:

You might enjoy Abuzola/Olabowale vs Viaro:
www.nairaland.com/352044/bible-says-earth-flat-while

That was a debate! I am guessing that was during a time where the religion section was one and certain people didn't have a cave to shield their beliefs.


Viaro is my new hero.


#retro nairaland

AllNaijaBlogger:



That was a debate! I am guessing that was during a time where the religion section was one and certain people didn't have a cave to shield their beliefs.


Viaro is my new hero.


#retro nairaland

Lol, sometimes, you sound terribly sly. You pretend like you dont give a damn about religion altogether not even Christianity. Another time you revealed your true self. Well, I don't have problem with viaro's defense of the Bible at all. As a matter of fact i commend his fantastic contributions. What i have problem with is some folks make spurious allegation that Quran says Earth is flat when it doesnt say that.

Empiree:
Lol, sometimes, you sound terribly sly. You pretend like you dont give a damn about religion altogether not even Christianity. Another time you revealed your true self. Well, I don't have problem with viaro's defense of the Bible at all. As a matter of fact i commend his fantastic contributions. What i have problem with is some folks make spurious allegation that Quran says Earth is flat when it doesnt say that.

It depends on interpretation. I am a christian and it has always been my true colour

AllNaijaBlogger:

That was a debate! I am guessing that was during a time where the religion section was one and certain people didn't have a cave to shield their beliefs.


Viaro is my new hero.

#retro nairaland

You can say that again!

The moslems took the offensive, only to be effectively "pinned down" in a tight corner with no room to manouver their "ostritch egg" deception.

michaelwestern:


Please explain to me how christianity is responsible for Nigeria's underdevelopment years after colonization.

That was not exactly my statement, but let me try to explain what I mean, michaelwestern. I said colonialism is the ROOT of the underdevelopment. Forcing Christianity on Africa was only a part of this, but a major one. As a result of colonialism, African cultures and societies were destroyed. These could have developped on their own and in unique ways, had they been left uninterrupted. Of course we can't know for sure in which way this would have taken place, but as a metaphor: if you let a seedling grow in peace it develops into a tree. If you cut if off at the root while in its infancy, it may develop into a malformed bush or die. This is pretty much what colonialism did. Christianity as the religion forced upon Africa during that time was used the eradicate African cultures, traditions, values and belief systems. The African sense of its own history and roots was cut off. How many of us even know that we have a history before colonialism, and how many care? Don't many - maybe unconciously and deep inside - feel that our forefathers actually WERE the "savages" they were portayed as by the colonialists?

As someone who has experienced both African and European reality I can say that most African societies today promote values that are 90% those of 18th century Europe. While Europe has moved way beyond these values, Africa hasn't. Religion (in its most fundamentalist and conservative and dare I say sinister form) is a major part of this. While I guess it's fair to say that poverty and hopelessness are an ideal breeding ground for exaggerated religious fervor, that's not the whole truth. Exaggerated religious fervor is also a cause of poverty and underdevelopment, and an obstacle in the way of a more educated, more active and more tolerant and peaceful society. It's a perpetuum mobile.

But there is still much more behind it. Let's have a look at who benefits from a people obsessed with religion today.

Firstly of course the clergy. The more uneducated and uncritical the people, the better for them. They can sell them all sorts of lies and get paid royally. All they need to do is perform a few fake "miracles" and indoctrinate people with fear of hellfire and promises of wealth and similar nonsense. Nobody is going to question them. Instead they will be paid and paid more for their lies and scams.

Secondly, the politicians. This follows a similar pattern of mind control. As you all know, our politicians have only one thing on their mind: power and money (their own, of course). So having an uncritical and uneducated population obsessed with religion is in their interest as well. Lets take the sudden extreme outbreak of homophobia in recent years as an example for what's going on.
Extremist homophobia is not an African value as we are made to believe. This was actually imported from the US. It is known that the US right wing fundamentalists (ironically they are known to be quite racist too) financed the anti-gay campaigns in Uganda. Similar things went on in Nigeria and still do.
So why is this in the interest of our leaders? Well, as long as people believe that their biggest problem is what a tiny and oppressed minority does in the secrecy of their bedroom, they won't be on the streets protesting against the corruption, criminality and looting of the said leaders - It's the perfect distraction strategy! Equally you won't expect any political activism and opposition if the same people are taught to "pray" over problems rather than to analyze and solve them. Neither will they be fighting for better education if you just indoctrinate them long enough that science is diabolical. Probably you can even convince them that too much NEPA, a functioning water supply and the like is a "sin". Then you can loot in peace and quiet, because the public will be busy beating gays to death and obsessing over other ridiculous matters that are entirely unrelated to reality and the ACTUAL problems.

This is how the plague of religious fanaticism helps in perpetuating a system that is rotten to the core. Nothing will ever change as long as a large majority live in a bubble of delusion and are basically out of touch with reality and what is really going on around them. Why do you think all major religions make us believe that rewards are only to be had after you die? Again, it's the same old story. This ensures that people are busy praying and obsessing over "sins" whereas they could also be out there changing the world in THIS life.

@Liekiller, I just told the bar tender to get you a drink , whats your brand??
Very well said!...Religions seem to have similar DNA, ..instill guilt, instill fear, after-death reward, duress..etc

dabosuker:
@Liekiller, I just told the bar tender to get you a drink , whats your brand??
Very well said!...Religions seem to have similar DNA, ..instill guilt, instill fear, after-death reward, duress..etc

lets have one or two together. Anything you order oo!

Liekiller:


lets have one or two together. Anything you order oo!

Were you theist at some point? which religion?

Empiree:
Were you theist at some point? which religion?

Dr. Empiree in the house!

AllNaijaBlogger:


Dr. Empiree in the house!

Lol

Empiree:
Were you theist at some point? which religion?

I wouldn't call it that. While I did grow up Catholic I started questioning the whole thing very early in life. It just never seemed to make much sense, and the older I grew and the more I looked into it from different angles, the less sense it made.

Liekiller:


I wouldn't call it that. While I did grow up Catholic I started questioning the whole thing very early in life. It just never seemed to make much sense, and the older I grew and the more I looked into it from different angles, the less sense it made.

agnostic or you are now completely atheist?

Empiree:
agnostic or you are now completely atheist?

Will she being agnostic or atheist mean any less than her beliefs that organized religion has done more harm than good!.

joseph1832:
Will she being agnostic or atheist mean any less than her beliefs that organized religion has done more harm than good!.

Was just asking her questions cuz i sensed she was theist before, that's all. At least, kindly allow her to answer if she wants

Empiree:
agnostic or you are now completely atheist?

I'm a total atheist when it comes to all the gods people have invented in their history as these were obviously all created in man's image and as a measure for people to explain the world around them and to organize their societies. I can't possibly believe in a god that suspiciously resembles a bronze age warlord, just to name one example. Many other gods were invented to reflect the bright and dark sides of human nature. We humans tend to see ourselves as the center of everything, and our gods reflect that.
I can't exclude that there is "something" out there, and I don't think we'll ever know. If there is such a thing as god I imagine it to be way beyond our imagination and certainly not some measly humanoid being that is obsessed with (only) us humans, that requires our praise and worship and is a control freak when it comes to what we do in bed, how we dress etc. Just like the sadistic and narcissistic traits humans attribute to their gods. Those are purely projections of human ideas and totally irrelevant in the bigger picture of eternity or whatever we wish to call it.

Liekiller:


The root of Africa's undervelopment today IS colonialism. The destruction of entire societies and cultures was by no means a "liberation", and it's a terrible thing to say that. I'm not denying that a lot has gone wrong after it ended too, but the root lingers on and doesn't help matters. The religious madness we see today is a symptom as well as a cause of underdevelopment. I certainly don't say atheism is the solution to this. It's not, and it's not even my goal to change anyone's belief. But: increasing fanaticism is a huge worry nowadays. Ironically, this variety of Christianity is strongly supported, imported and financed by outlandish churches in the US. So, according to you the "liberation" continues. And I can tell you I'm not happy about it.

I like your style of argument but i refuse to accept the notion that colonialism is the cause of Africa's backwardness. Many asia countries, with the exception of Japan and china, were colonized, but today they are advanced countries and economies.

South korea, indonesia, singapore, malaysia, india, taiwan were all colonized, but today they are well developed above african countries. Many south koreans are fundamental christians and that does not in any way hamper their technological advancement.

In the middle ages, the arabs colonized many european countries, like spain, portugal, southern france and part of italy, but today europeans are world leaders.

So the argument that colonialism and christianity is the cause of african problems is not true.

true2god:
I like your style of argument but i refuse to accept the notion that colonialism is the cause of Africa's backwardness. Many asia countries, with the exception of Japan and china, were colonized, but today they are advanced countries and economies.

South korea, indonesia, singapore, malaysia, india, taiwan were all colonized, but today they are well developed above african countries. Many south koreans are fundamental christians and that does not in any way hamper their technological advancement.

In the middle ages, the arabs colonized many european countries, like spain, portugal, southern france and part of italy, but today europeans are world leaders.

So the argument that colonialism and christianity is the cause of african problems is not true.

I'm well aware that it's an opinion, and I also fully agree that there's more to it. But I'm still convinced it's part of Africa's problems. I'm actually less focused on the past though, it's just that we need to look at history to understand any given situation today. The big question is now where to even start to overcome this situation. I don't have an answer to that. Maybe being more rational, self-critical and honest would be a good start.

Empiree:
Then take your time to relate with them cus i dont know why you even questioning me about them.

And whatever Arab slave masters did in Africa was clearly not as terrible as White Christians did. Arabs' attempts on Africa was strictly restricted to N. Africa and maybe Eastern EU. Unlike Christianity, that's complete slavery and colonization of not only countries but continents: Middle East, Africa, Asia and Caribbean and even South America. So basically the whole world. That's Christianity for you.

Besides, Islam itself forbids people from taking slaves or people against their will. Islam does recognized Arabs involved in slavery but gradually abolished it until revelation of Qur'an was complete. Now that Qur'an is complete and prophet delivered the message and passed it's forbidden for anyone to own slaves Any muslim who does that in modern time does it at his own mischief

Your attempt at using the concept of smaller evil is better than bigger evil is wrong and misleading. Slavey is evil, no matter how much you attemt at packaging it. Your philosophy of ' Islamic slavery is better than christian slavery' holds no water because slavery is evil.

And I know you are very much aware that mohammed actively participated in slave trade hence slavery was well and fully embedded in Islamic scriptures and on the other hand Jesus never had or traded in slaves.

On the european conquest on the world and the resultant colonization, the first religion that embarked on wholesale colonization and conquering of foreign lands is Islam. Islam conqured western europe (before they well expellled), conqured eastern europe, turkey, greece, albania.

In asia, muslims conqured and killed millions of hindus which resulted in cultural shift in India and led to the partioning of India sub-continent into India-pakistan towards religios line. Pakistanis were all hindus before Islamic invasion. Islam created the enemity between India and pakistan just as it does to arab and Jews.

lol this thread is a joke. Too many uneducated people who have an easier time regurgitating conspiracy theories and propaganda... all in the name of "science" and common sense of course. Ask them to discuss the science and they tell you they can't be bothered to teach you. The two-faced, hypocritical nature of the response is that they still have plenty of time to indulge in nonsensical "religion bad" memes.

@ empiree,

Your claim that Islam restricted its expansion in North Africa is a lie. The north african Jihadist were actually coming downward but on a rather slow pace before being halted by Europen colonianist who also have economic interest in africa (please read ojukwu's ahiara declaration of 1969 to have a better clue).

The Berlin conference of 1884, which set the pace of how african wil be partitioned by Europen power laid the foundation for halting the advance of Islam and jihad into sub-africa. Before the berlin conference, Jihadist rampaged north, west african (mali and the tuareg, guinea, burkina faso) and central africa (sudan, ethiopia, somalia and eritrea) and were moving downward (ghana, togo, niger, chad and northern nigeria). The Northen nigeria expample is that of usman dan fodio who declared war on hausa and kanen borno, who also declare war in borno. Both war are religios war by the Islamic jihadist and invaders.

The saving grace southern nigerian, some part of east africa and south african countries had is european colonialist who moved in and halted the jihadist expansion in africa. Had the europeans never come to africa, all african countries will be Islam.

The arab-muslims set the stage for colonization and slavery in african. The portuguse, who came earlier than other europeans, never saw the economic importance of slavery and colonization in africa. The french and the british, having observed the arabs' eslavement of africans, nevertheless maximixed it to their advantage.

Without arab\muslims enslavement of africans, the european might never have the idea that slavery was very profitable to their then economies.

May I also tell you that the arabs had once enslaved the europe at the height of Islamic supremacy.

davidylan:
lol this thread is a joke. Too many uneducated people who have an easier time regurgitating conspiracy theories and propaganda... all in the name of "science" and common sense of course. Ask them to discuss the science and they tell you they can't be bothered to teach you. The two-faced, hypocritical nature of the response is that they still have plenty of time to indulge in nonsensical "religion bad" memes.

Bro dave, been a long time. Thought you had finally left nairaland.

@ Empiree,

Also note that countries like yemen, oman, somalia and northern sudan had majority black population before the coming of the arabs. My question to you is this, where are the blacks in oman and yemen? Where are the indigenous blacks in northern sudan? Please go and research it.

The activities of the european invaders\colonialists can still be felt in terms of infratructures they built in most capital cities in africa, most of which are standing till date. In europe and america many blacks, children of former slaves, are active in politics, sports and entertainment, educational sector and what have you. African american\europeans citizens are well intergrated into their socities, all one cant rule out occasion racism.

How many blacks, who are children of former slaves, are in govt in saudi arabia, egypty, tunisia, algeria and other arab\muslim countries who benefitted in arab colonization of blaxks?