plaetton:

Oh these low iq people.
After 9 pages on this thread, you are still asking me that question?

Ok let me indulge you and test your honesty.
First, no one on this thread has criticized christians or Anyone enjoying wealth.

The question on this thread, which the brood of vipers have deliberately sidesteped, is, upon whose shoulders or sweath should a pastor enjoy any type of luxury?
Pls tell me, how does a pastor earn an Income that affords him to live in opulence?
Pls tell me which Nigerian pastor selfmade himself an lived in opulence before becoming a pastor.
All of Nigerias billionaire pastors were dropouts of one occupation or another.

Do you think that a pastor should take money from his congregation through various extortion schemes to live an opulent lifestyle?
If you have no problems with that, then surely, you and I do not live in the same moral universe.

I have no problems with sheep being fleeced (anymore).

I've met females who believe in tarot cards, horoscopes and other such nonsense in north America and they too enrich charlatans. Some do so whilst also going to church every week. You can't teach weak people to be strong. Or stupid people to be intelligent.

I do, however, feel for their children - such people always seem in a great hurry to have them. I wish there were a way to ensure that the children were not dragged into such a culture of stupidity.

cyberry21:
say what u knw oo most good pst don't use tithes nd offering 4de use it 2 build nd beautify churches

u dey mind am.Na dem no dey go church to understand the things of the spirit but na dem know wetin dey happen for church pass.

God and Mormon - does not mix together - can any of the present day so-called Men of God - live an austere and selfless lifestyle like the apostles and true disciples of Jesus Christ.

The brand of gospel - now known as 'Prosperity Gospel' was never laid down by Jesus Christ - but a brand of man-made gospel - which have left the mind of most christian directionless in the christian faith.

Jesus Christ simply gave an instruction in Matthew 28:16-20, about making discipleship of all nations.

victorazy:


Ur the fool!
Do u pray ly pastors?
How many souls have u won for god?
How many ppl did u preach to today?
Have u heal someone before?
When last did u fast?
Wlast u go for evangelism?
How many hours can u pray in tongue?
Etc
U can never be as rich as a gud pastor.

Yu gullible fuul dnt know dey are psuedopastors,fraudsters,bizman,working 4 d keeper,satan than God dia rewards are mundane,earthly fast ko fast ni,u even spelt God as god are u an idolworshipper?

nnekaregy:
Y shouldn't they, men and women of God should have the best.

Let me throw more light on your reply.
This is only meant for those who read their bible daily and are christian though you might not be born again because when you study the word of God daily that shows that you know the efficacy of His word.
Read from the bible, Numbers 18:8-21 this place is titled in my KJV as "the Levites' portion"
Verse 12. Says: All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of wheat, the first fruits of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I (God Almighty) given to you.
This was when God through Moses gave the Levites/ Men of God the inheritance they have now.

Question: Do you know the value of wheat then?
Wheat is the best of cereals and food then and the word of God didn't say any wheat but the best of wheat... I love being equipped by this world.

Question: why are offerings for priests or Levites?
Verse 8: And the Lord spake unto Aaron, behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance forever.
Verse 14: Everything devoted in Israel shall be thine.

Questions: Do you think you are the only one as congregation who pays tithe, the Levites/Men of God also do?
Verse 25-29: And the Lord spake unto Moses saying,
Thus speak unto the Levites and say unto them, when ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.....
28: thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord's heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Question: Do you think God needs your money? No! He doesn't
Psalm: 24:1 The earth is of the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Questions: Why do congregations give offerings , tithes etc? To be blessed by God
Proverbs 3:9-10; Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the first fruits of all thine increase:
So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy press shall burst out with new wine.
Malachi 3:10; bring ye all thy tithes and offerings into the storehouse, and prove me now here with, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

The word of God is raw wisdom and apex in hierarchy of knowledge and understanding... Study and it shall be a buckler on your left hand and a double-edge sword on your right, so that you will stand against all odds...
God bless you all!
Thanks!

hamilton62:

Let me throw more light on your reply.
This is only meant for those who read their bible daily and are christian though you might not be born again because when you study the word of God daily that shows that you know the efficacy of His word.
Read from the bible, Numbers 18:8-21 this place is titled in my KJV as "the Levites' portion"
Verse 12. Says: All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of wheat, the first fruits of them which they shall offer unto the Lord, them have I (God Almighty) given to you.
This was when God through Moses gave the Levites/ Men of God the inheritance they have now.

Question: Do you know the value of wheat then?
Wheat is the best of cereals and food then and the word of God didn't say any wheat but the best of wheat... I love being equipped by this world.

Question: why are offerings for priests or Levites?
Verse 8: And the Lord spake unto Aaron, behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance forever.
Verse 14: Everything devoted in Israel shall be thine.

Questions: Do you think you are the only one as congregation who pays tithe, the Levites/Men of God also do?
Verse 25-29: And the Lord spake unto Moses saying,
Thus speak unto the Levites and say unto them, when ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a tenth part of the tithe.....
28: thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord's heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Question: Do you think God needs your money? No! He doesn't
Psalm: 24:1 The earth is of the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

Questions: Why do congregations give offerings , tithes etc? To be blessed by God
Proverbs 3:9-10; Honour the Lord with thy substance, and with the first fruits of all thine increase:
So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy press shall burst out with new wine.
Malachi 3:10; bring ye all thy tithes and offerings into the storehouse, and prove me now here with, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

The word of God is raw wisdom and apex in hierarchy of knowledge and understanding... Study and it shall be a buckler on your left hand and a double-edge sword on your right, so that you will stand against all odds...
God bless you all!
Thanks!

I love the Word of God!

Psalms 147:19 (KJV) 19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

Psalms 147:20 (KJV) 20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and [as for his] judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD.

At the time this Psalm was written, gentile nations had not yet known the statutes and ordinances given to the children of Israel. The Law was for Israel alone.

Acts 15:5 (KJV) 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.

Flash forward to post-Pentecost. The year is AD 51. Religious leaders had gotten wind that Gentiles were placing their faith in Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:10 (KJV) 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Peter rebuked the leaders, telling them that their demands were tempting God.

Acts 15:24 (KJV) 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:

James stated that the religious leaders were overthrowing the work that Christ had begun in the Gentile Believers. He said that the Apostles had not commanded they keep the Mosaic Law.

Acts 15:28 (KJV) 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:29 (KJV) 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The Apostles AND the Holy Ghost decreed that Gentiles were only required to observe four necessary things. Tithing was not considered necessary, or it would have been in that list of necessities.

Acts 21:23 (KJV) 23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Acts 21:24 (KJV) 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Acts 21:25 (KJV) 25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written [and] concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from [things] offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Eight years later, AD 59, the Apostle James reminded Paul that Gentiles were not required to keep the Mosaic Law.

And, remarkably absent from the rest of the New Testament is instruction for tithes to be taken in a Church setting. But we do find one instance in Hebrews where there is a command for tithes to be taken...

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) 5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Hebrews 7:6 (KJV) 6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) 7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

Hebrews 7:8 (KJV) 8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he [receiveth them], of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Hebrews 7:9 (KJV) 9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Hebrews 7:10 (KJV) 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Tithes were commanded, but not for the Church. Rather, they were commanded for the Levitic tribe in Israel... And that, according to the Law. The Law stated that God's tithes were to be agricultural, not monetary.

Yep, I love the Word of God!

Numbers 18:8-20 is not in reference to tithing. Those verses are speaking of Firstfruits. Firstfruits and tithes are not the same thing.

If he bought it with his money,no probs then.

victorazy:


Ur the fool!
Do u pray ly pastors?
How many souls have u won for god?
How many ppl did u preach to today?
Have u heal someone before?
When last did u fast?
Wlast u go for evangelism?
How many hours can u pray in tongue?
Etc
U can never be as rich as a gud pastor.

However, all these things you mentioned here don't guarantee success for a Pastor or anybody. More so, nobody wins any soul for God for He wins all the souls by himself. Paul plants, Appolos watered but God gave the increase. Hope you've seen that before?

MarkMiwerds:
Numbers 18:8-20 is not in reference to tithing. Those verses are speaking of Firstfruits. Firstfruits and tithes are not the same thing.

Please, read in line with the thread, that'll make you a good student of the discussion.
Thanks.

donhils:

However, all these things you mentioned here don't guarantee success for a Pastor or anybody. More so, nobody wins any soul for God for He wins all the souls by himself. Paul plants, Appolos watered but God gave the increase. Hope you've seen that before?

May God help and mesmerize us with wisdom, knowledge and understanding.
Are sentences like this still in existence?

richidinho:


Shut up

Tithe and offering is not by force

Stop giving offering and tithe and watch if the new Church project will stop or whether the pastor will go hungry

Don't spend ur time searching for Biz to invest on

Campaign against pastors upkeep...u will soon see the result

Like father like son

nna ma guy those pastors are the worse broad daylight thieves under God's carmouflage..they will surely burn in heell...

victorazy:


Ur daft! U missed the guy's point.
Ur brain is not functioning well, maybe ur Buhari's descendant.

yeah sai buhari ma man, better than the clueless g.e.j.

Pastors only need bodyguards when one knows he is ripping of the Church.
What happen to the Lord's protection-in the name of Jesus?

AllNaijaBlogger:
A week ago, I saw a popular pastor at shoprite coming down from a newer model range rover with a bodyguard. That car should be at least 10-20 million naira. A 2012 range rover sport goes for 11 million naira at least.


I do not want to mention the pastor's name so that his members and followers here do not come and bash me. I am a christian but such extravagance bothers me.


I just want to know what biblical or commonsense justification can be given for such an expensive asset?

Not necessarily,
It is mindlessly aping Americanism

brocab:
Pastors only need bodyguards when one knows he is ripping of the Church.
What happen to the Lord's protection-in the name of Jesus?

If its not necessarily then why would any pastor need a bodyguard-Americanism or not-we live by faith, needing Christ.
But if the pastors preaching the tithing messages then he lives by works, needing a bodyguard.

vooks:
Not necessarily,
It is mindlessly aping Americanism

I mean there is no heightened threat against their person as such. The only thing I have noticed is some church members get rowdy and wild when they come close to their MoG....

brocab:
If its not necessarily then why would any pastor need a bodyguard-Americanism or not-we live by faith, needing Christ.
But if the pastors preaching the tithing messages then he lives by works, needing a bodyguard.

Even if the members do become rowdy and wild-Church isn't about man and his bodyguard it about God and His.

vooks:

I mean there is no heightened threat against their person as such. The only thing I have noticed is some church members get rowdy and wild when they come close to their MoG....

Please note that I feel most of this habits...body guards,big rides,bling and all are aping Americanism blindly. And it really looks bad/insensitive over here given the substantially lower per capita income in Africa compared to America. A pastor rolling in a $200K ride in the U.S. would be far less conspicuous than in Nigeria.

The reason I said congregation can get rowdy is because I have seen it. Even then, you don't need gun toting body guards in body armor. Some strong ushers would do

brocab:
Even if the members do become rowdy and wild-Church isn't about man and his bodyguard it about God and His.

Mr Vooks exactly what are you trying to say? Are you comparing America with Africa, pastors are making less than the other in the Church.
Hearing pastors having bodyguards, sounds a bit over the top-but hey I don't disbelieve you, I don't sit in a Church long enough, to see the action.

If this is the case-the Lord see's, and those who are making less or more' don't matter to Him, they all have the intentions to rob the Church, which means they are robbing God.

But remember' these people have chosen to do these crimes, and having bodyguards to protect them wearing the worldly full armour, are called Gangsters, living the highways, not wearing God's full armour, are walking themselves straight into Hell.

The blind leading the blind-but it's not our job, "I was told this recently" we can't save them-only the Lord can.
We can help give them warning-but with "Mr greed" hanging around who's willing to listen?

And if the Church chooses to follow after this sort of behaviour, but your Spirit is talking to you about this-then it's best to follow your heart and do what the Lord is telling you to do and get out of there, 1 Timothy 6:5 say's>Useless wrangling's of Men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is means of gain {Money} From such withdraw yourselves.

vooks:
Please note that I feel most of this habits...body guards,big rides,bling and all are aping Americanism blindly. And it really looks bad/insensitive over here given the substantially lower per capita income in Africa compared to America. A pastor rolling in a $200K ride in the U.S. would be far less conspicuous than in Nigeria.

The reason I said congregation can get rowdy is because I have seen it. Even then, you don't need gun toting body guards in body armor. Some strong ushers would do

What am saying is there is no reason to ape Americanism in these matters, reason being I believe it is a disservice to do all this in the name of Jesus. However, after observing how some meetings are charged, minimal security is necessary, minimal means able ushers to control the excited crowds. Just that. Kevlar vests and AK47 and other side-arms have no place in churches unless there are credible terror threats

brocab:
Mr Vooks exactly what are you trying to say? Are you comparing America with Africa, pastors are making less than the other in the Church.
Hearing pastors having bodyguards, sounds a bit over the top-but hey I don't disbelieve you, I don't sit in a Church long enough, to see the action.

If this is the case-the Lord see's, and those who are making less or more' don't matter to Him, they all have the intentions to rob the Church, which means they are robbing God.

But remember' these people have chosen to do these crimes, and having bodyguards to protect them wearing the worldly full armour, are called Gangsters, living the highways, not wearing God's full armour, are walking themselves straight into Hell.

The blind leading the blind-but it's not our job, "I was told this recently" we can't save them-only the Lord can.
We can help give them warning-but with "Mr greed" hanging around who's willing to listen?

And if the Church chooses to follow after this sort of behaviour, but your Spirit is talking to you about this-then it's best to follow your heart and do what the Lord is telling you to do and get out of there, 1 Timothy 6:5 say's>Useless wrangling's of Men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is means of gain {Money} From such withdraw yourselves.

That's a lot of armour to carry in a Church meeting. so it's like fear man, instead of fearing God..
Wow-yes I agree you need the ushers, not armed men. I couldn't even try to worship, in any Church with armed men with AK47's behind or in front of me. I would feel if I didn't worship right, they could gun me down in a flash...

So this is happening in your Churches over there-"Crazy" are these armed men protecting the pastors while collecting the tithes and offerings? Or are they their with them, from morning until evening, when Church is finish for the day.. Who pays them?

Even if their were any terror threats, in the Lord's house, prayer is the best weapon. You carry a sword you die with a sword.

vooks:
What am saying is there is no reason to ape Americanism in these matters, reason being I believe it is a disservice to do all this in the name of Jesus. However, after observing how some meetings are charged, minimal security is necessary, minimal means able ushers to control the excited crowds. Just that. Kevlar vests and AK47 and other side-arms have no place in churches unless there are credible terror threats

I would not necessarily say these are "Americanisms". I have been to more churches in America than many others. Preached up and down the East Coast for eight years. Also have spoken on several occasions in the Southern States. Yet, out of all the churches I have ever preached at or spoken in, not one had people armed with weapons and wearing Kevlar vests.

Am I saying it doesn't happen here? No. It very well may. However, if it does, it is not the norm. Nor should it ever be present in our churches.

When last Jesus spoke to His Disciples prior to His crucifixion, He told Peter, "Put away thy sword". The sword, for the Believer, is not for violence. It is for display. But even then, not in the House of God. The House of God is to be a House of Prayer. If one is fearful of other men, that one should not be looking to weapons. He should be looking instead to God.

I have had a metaphysical store in the U.S. selling tarot cards and Ouija boards etc for 25 years. I assure you none of my coven members are charlatans.

The people coming to me for tarot readings come back because the cards are always right. The tarot cards existed in ancient times in India, you can reference these facts in an old series called "The Encyclopedia of the Tarot". Through the ages they have changed and new cards have been formed but the principle is the same. Through our will and the request for communication by the divine we recieve answers.

In the metaphysics few are actual charlatans, just lije in traditional yoruba with the handed down fortune telling by the Babalou, few are really charlatans. We are religious leaders mostly and take on the burdens that most other types of priests do.

Personally i have given readings good or bad that have come true. Do people listen? Usually no. But through my own experiences i think the cards tell us what we are most likely to do because we can alter our destint through choice. This is why we have free will amd also why the perpetual story of Jesus is not a "new" one, it is actually a retold story over and over in the ancient religions. A great example is Dionysus and Osirus. And wjy unexplained things are in Christian religion - like the chalice of never ending wine on the table of the last supper.

As one African American says on youtube -Africans in general were spiritualists. The majority of slave owners who brought slaves were Christian. They hurt our people. Prior to that we were spiritualists not Christians.

If people are Christian because of belief that is fine. But do not preach that someone else is wrong to believe a different way when your family was *forced* to believe in another religion (Christianity). Please appreciate that some people want to believe ancient fortune telling methods still today. That some could not be forced to only believe in Jesus only. Thank you.