I attended their service as a first timer,after the introduction, we were led to another hall there a brother asked us if we culd speak in tongues,for those who said no,they were led to another brother.

This brother quoted somewhere in the bible nd said he would teach us how to speak in tongues,he said speaking in tongues won't let anyone know what u saying

He also said he would continually teach us how to speak in tongues. He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.

In as much as I am not a bible scholar, I know this is false teaching( the little knowledge I know is when speaking in tongues there must b an interpreter its a message not a language

2) You dont teach people the holy spirit does.

And this issue of cell leader is confusing. The brother also said we cannot approach the pastor directly.

^^^

Wise move.

Loves world is a sect no true Christian will be comfortable with. I am speaking from experience, usually when you are there you conscience keeps telling you that something is not right here. One may choose to suppress that and continue with the it doesn't matter teachings, others pray they never repeat a visit to those centers

It is either Pastor Chris is right with his teachings/lifestyle and Jesus Christ is wrong or that Jesus is wrong and Chris Oyakhilome is right. This is because there are wide differences between what Jesus teaches and what Pastor Chris does
I am hoping that Pastor Chris will one day repent and retrace his steps starting from his ties with Snr. Prophet TB Joshua

fonzie2u:
I attended their service as a first timer,after the introduction, we were led to another hall there a brother asked us if we culd speak in tongues,for those who said no,they were led to another brother.
This brother quoted somewhere in the bible nd said he would teach us how to speak in tongues,he said speaking in tongues won't let anyone know what u saying
He also said he would continually teach us how to speak in tongues. He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.
In as much as I am not a bible scholar, I know this is false teaching( the little knowledge I know is when speaking in tongues there must b an interpreter its a message not a language
2) You dont teach people the holy spirit does.
And this issue of cell leader is confusing. The brother also said we cannot approach the pastor directly.

A few answers for Damo:

damosky12:
Really, I think the OP is confused.

When I embarked on this mission, I was very prepared for this sort of talk. Since what I am doing here can very well be termed throwing stones, I came with a well shielded house. Your observation is noted.

damosky12:
Asserting that the thread isn't meant for debate while he tries to rubbish a church of God based on his own opinion is itself an error.

Again the thread is not meant for debate. Debates may be unavoidable but my primary purpose is to PROVE a thesis: CHRIST EMBASSY IS A CULT. Debate is secondary.

Correction my dear friend, CEC is not a church of God, it is a cult. If CEC is a church of God then Mormonism, Jehovah Witnessing, Christian Science, Synagogue, Cele, K&S, etc, are churches of God. Fortunately they are not and so also is the CE.

There is no doubt a lot written on this thread is my opinion. Opinion grounded in the holy bible and corroborated by leading authorities in cult studies like Dr Walter Martin.

damosky12:
He really doesn't know what he aims at. "it (the thread) would help him when God liberates him".

I stand by those words.

I am told of a lot of folks who browse the internet to find information on their churches, etc. A google search on CE cults will throw up this thread and God knows what such info will do for a heart searching for gospel truth.

And, yes, the day will come when those who have opposed us will find out we were right after all. These threads will be available to help them on the path of restoration.

damosky12:
Well, if you are so concerned about their liberation, you won't be here typing errors, you would be in your closet interceding. But, obviously you aren't concerned about the interceding aspect but the critics (but the Bible never asked us to criticise as Christians but to labour in prayer for the lost)

Are Christ Embassy church people lost?

The bible never say we should criticize, you say? Consider this:

[b]Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[/b]

And a lot more scriptures like that. What do you think the scriptures above mean?

There is a place of intercession and their is a place for apologetics. Indeed it is the one who intercedes the most, like Elijah, that faces the king and his false prophets declaring that there shall be no rain except by his word. These things are not done in the flesh, my friend. This is not the ranting of a jobless man. I am sent.

damosky12:
How then are you sure you are a Christian yourself?

The Lord knows those who are his.

One last point:

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

That's apologetics.

The field of Christian preaching that demands that you point out what is true from what is false. It requires stating what is a false doctrine and what is true; who is a false prophet and who is true, so that the gospel might be preserved. It is defending the gospel against errors.

It is one aspect of Christianity today that is very unpopular and since much of what is preached today is a popular gospel, few people do these things.

Because men like Walter Martin took the pain to write Kingdom of the Cults, many of us cannot be deceived by popular cults today. Because I have posted this thread, one person will read it and be saved from the cult of Oyakhilome. Young people proceeding to the Universities will flee Loveworld fellowships and so on.

I believe you understand me.

Only God knows who really serves Him... But it's true we "are gods; children of The Most High..."- Psalm 82:6. Maybe that is where CEC members got the idea from. Jesus quote this same point to his accusers when they rejected his words that he is "the son of God". Maybe that is what Jesus came to do on earth; to make the children of God know there true origin. I am not speaking for or against the CEC. I am only being objective. A wise man (James Allen) once told me that... When we argue over/about Christ, we lose Him. Christ is Love and we are the embodiments of Love. We are all saviors of the human race and every creature the race dominates.

WinsomeX:
THE FALSE GOSPEL OF CHRIST EMBASSY

The gospel that the Christ Embassy Church teaches is a gospel of man. It is a gospel me, myself and I. It is a gospel where God is the errand boy and man is the central theme, not God or his Christ.

The true gospel points at God's solution to redeeming human kind from sin. In the process of this happening, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is exalted and his Son who brought our salvation is sitted at the right hand of the Father, receiving as all glory. So that having spoken about the gospel and what Christ has done, Paul cannot but conclude by stating the doxology:

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

It is all to God's glory.

For Christ Embassy and other cults like it, it is all to man's glory. That's why the central of every message is about man and how his needs can be met. About man's healing, promotion, success, breakthrough, etc.

The gospel of the Christ Embassy is essentially a prosperity gospel but it has been taken to even a crass level, deeper than what the originators, Hagin and co, planned it to be. The Christ Embassy now find its version of their gospel from the doctrine and lifestyle of their founder, Chris Oyakhilome. And since Chris' life is upside down right now, we cannot expect for members of the church to be right side up.

The Christ Embassy Church is a relic of a prosperity church that finds its relevance from the noise making that they call music ministry. They spend hours praying in tongues without giving one second to knowing the meaning of what they say. They revel in false testimonies of members who must lie to each other, claiming that the lie they preach to each other is working. And they continue all of these in a closed system where only themselves know that they are lying to each other and where they know they are neck deep in a cult they find extremely difficult to come out of.

Gombs tell us about some "liquid love" of Christ as the gospel of Jesus. What he will not tell you is that that phrase is one of the high sounding but meaningless terms that Oyakhilome uses to hoodwink his followers to continue in the cult slavery. God's love is God's love. Scripture has no record of a "liquid love" anywhere.

You may wish to revert to page 0 and see a brief history of how cults are made to realize that the CEC is a made cult.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not about man and his needs. It is about God and his glory. That glory is what is shown forth in Christ redeeming man from sin. So that the redeemed man can never boast in himself but spend life and eternity thanking God and giving him all glory.

Next, I will begin discussing Dr Martins analysis of the cultist mindset so we may understand why a poster had earlier explained that some CEC members suddenly become distant when they are fully inculcated into the cult of CEC. What the whole "I'm a god..." nonsense is all about. BTW, "I'm god" is a frequently used term by Mormons also.

Winsomex,
Jargons, mantras,semantics,word-play..... LIQUID LOVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmMvia3rCQE
https://www.facebook.com/CEcapetown/posts/1516103915269705

Gombs,
What is LIQUID LOVE?

Is this same set of people that will open mouth and say Catholic Church is a cult. Let God be the judge abeg

MsFaith:
Is this same set of people that will open mouth and say Catholic Church is a cult. Let God be the judge abeg

Hello Ms.

We are not discussing Catholics on this thread. Catholicism is another issue entirely.

DISSECTING A CHRIS OYAKHILOME TEACHING

The following are the essential doctrines of the CEC:

1. Faith in faith.

2. Confessing to Possessing.

3. The Sin of Suffering

4. Wealth (The Wheel of Fortune).

5. Health and Healing.

While the true gospel of Jesus Christ revolve around themes like: Salvation, Redemption, Eternal Life, Holiness and Righteousness, Love of God, the eternal glory of the Godhead - the Trinity. Christ Embassy churches claim to believe these things but if they mention them at all, it will be in passing.

Let us consider a typical message of Pastor Chris as proof of this point. I have intentionally provided one that Gombs provided us on this thread. In the teaching to be perused below, the careful reader will notice that the above themes of a true gospel are conspicuously absent in the essay.

Pastor Chris:
Keep Your Body In Health -

Tuesday, April 7th .

Pastor Chris

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you (Luke 10:19).

As we would soon see, we would discover that the Luke 10 passage that was quoted above has nothing to do with the health of the body. Jesus was speaking of the powers he has given us his disciples as we preach the gospel. Our confidence should be in the fact that the One in us is greater than any external force against us.

But trust the false gospel Chris preaches, every scripture is bent to lend credence to Word of Faith. So we proceed to learn tips on how to keep our body healthy.

Pastor Chris:
As a child of God, your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 6:19), which means your body isn't yours; it's owned by God.

However, you're the one to keep watch over your body and keep it in health. You're the one to exercise authority over your body, keeping it free of sickness, disease and infirmity

One other point must be spelt out about WoF. It is not only a man centred gospel, it is also a Do-It-Yourself gospel. It is a gospel that doesn't depend on God; it has no place for a sovereign God in its teaching. You must learn to get results and if there is no result, it is your fault.

Here we begin to see the first item of WoF, confessing to possessing. "You are the one to keep your body in health", he roars. While indeed every human being has a duty to watch over his diet and way of life, exercise and live free of anxiety, WoF does not leave room for any other possibility. If it goes well or bad with you, it is your fault.

Pastor Chris:
The words of Jesus in our opening verse should let you know that you're not ordinary; you have the right to tell your body how it should feel. Tell your body what to do, and it'll respond. Jesus said in Mark 11:23 that you shall have what you say. If you've been struggling with an addiction, declare with boldness, "I'm not going to let anything dominate me. I keep my body in subjection to the Word of God!" Don't permit in your body anything that's not consistent with the Word of God for your life; take charge and rule over your body with the Word of God

What did Jesus say in Luke 10 that means "you are not ordinary". Then he couples it all with the Magna Carta of WoF: Mark 11:24 - the confessing to possessing scriptures. As much as this scriptures is quoted by WoF adherents to say what it never means, we are yet to find any occasion in the bible where Jesus or his disciples where "telling their bodies what to do". What Chris and others do not know is that these positive confession teachings find root more in New Age religions and eastern cults than the NT. These was what Christian Science consist of and many have even alleged that these doctrines are modern day gnostic heresies.

Pastor Chris:
When you perceive the symptoms of sickness in your body, reject them for they only become real when you say they are. Your words aren't empty; what you say comes to pass; therefore, talk to your body always, and keep it in health.

Don't say, "I have a growth in my stomach and it's hurting so bad. The doctor says it's cancer".

Don't talk about the growth; talk to it instead! Tell it to die and pass out from your body. Tell the pain to cease, and tell your body to function rightly in line with the life of Christ that's in your spirit.

Here we find ourselves in the practical aspect of the WoF class. These are the nonsense they teach sick folks for two weeks in the healing school before their prophet/god Oyakhilome appears to "heal" them.

What people do not know is that these things find no root in the bible. They are Mind Science teachings that are prevalent among modern day cults that have no link with Christianity.

Experience has shown that in some rare cases, if the sick individual applies himself long enough to the given healing techniques, they do experience healing. This doesn't mean that God had any hand in it, it only tells of the supreme powers that lie in the human body make up. How genuine optimism can yield positive results even in very bad health cases. Virtually all Mind Scientists that practice these healing techniques are not Christians. WoF is spiritualizing Mind Science and calling it the gospel.

These are the reason WoF has cultic influences. And the CEC, which imbibes these teachings, is a full blown cult today.

Pastor Chris:
Christ literally lives in you! He dwells in your spirit and expresses Himself through your physical body. Your consciousness of this reality makes it easier for you to exercise dominion over your body against sickness, disease, and infirmity

After teaching pure Mind Science and cultism, Chris returns to a biblical truth of "Christ living in you". He then makes the connection: use this Christ within you to dominate health situation. So in one hand, confess to possess health and then use the indwelling Christ within you to perfect the health. You begin to wonder the occasions where Paul spoke of his own infirmity or the infirmity of his assistants, was it that they were ignorant of these healing techniques? These teachings are foreign to scriptures. I will end this discuss with quotes from scriptures and I will request readers to find just one of the five aforementioned doctrines of WoF in them.

Pastor Chris:
Confession...

The Spirit of God vitalizes every fibre of my being! The God-life in me destroys sickness, disease and infirmities! I'm healthy and strong! Only the life and nature of Christ - His beauty and glory - are manifested in my physical body, because He perambulates in me, through the Holy Spirit.

Halleluiah!

Further Study:

Romans 8:10-13 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus
from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up
Christ from the dead shall also quicken your
mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Daily Scripture Reading 1-Year Bible Reading Plan: Luke 11:14-36,Judges 3-4. 2-Year Bible Reading Plan: Matthew 27:55-66, Leviticus 7

Well, there is the confession. I wish you all the luck in the practice session.

I leave you with some central gospel words from Jesus, Paul and Peter. I will request my readers to locate a single Word of Faith theme in them. You are also free to supply yours. Just show me: faith in faith; confession to possession; health and wealth in them. If not, you must agree that Chris Oyakhilome peaches a false gospel, he leads a cult and he deceiving millions to eternal damnation in hell.

Jesus:
Luke 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh. 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation... 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Paul:
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

- Doctrinal Statement.

Paul:
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

- Practical Statement. Note what Paul will rather have us practice godliness. Not some tips towards being healthy.

Peter:
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Note the themes of salvation, redemption, eternal life, holiness and righteousness in these scriptures. Themes absent from Chris whole day teaching.

Where is Word of Faith in all of the above? Were is confession to possession; faith in faith; health and wealth?

A careful reader of the NT cannot but conclude that the teachings of Chris Oyakhilome are not biblical. They are a juxtaposing of partial biblical truth with cult sciences.

The result is a cult.

[quote author=WinsomeX post=32477471]

Hello Ms.

We are not discussing Catholics on this thread. Catholicism is another issue entirely.[/quote

Na so nah. Another issue of cultism

fonzie2u:
I attended their service as a first timer,after the introduction, we were led to another hall there a brother asked us if we culd speak in tongues,for those who said no,they were led to another brother.

That's bible very scriptural ....read reference below.

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

. . . This brother quoted somewhere in the bible nd said he would teach us how to speak in tongues. . .

TRASH !!!! . No one teaches such things in ce . Speaking in tongues can't be taught . What we can say is rather to teach you on how to RECIEVE the holyspirit . Not how to speak in tongues. Christ embassy is a sound bible teaching ministry . And satan won't stop ,manipulating propangada . To gullible ears

. . .He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.

Even though an ignorant dude is hailing you here but You missed out on what would have helped you because laying on of hands is one of the ways you RECIEVE the holyghost .

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

In as much as I am not a bible scholar, I know this is false teaching( the little knowledge I know is when speaking in tongues there must b an interpreter its a message not a language

You're wrong , speaking in tongue (message) is different from praying in tongues . Message in tongues is for people , praying in tongues is to God, and God doesn't need an interpreter !

I am saddened that it still goes on and on. "My church is better than yours" and then in response to that we hear "It's a lie, my church is better than yours". Isn't this the beginning of the end? To be honest I have my reservations when we concern ourselves with Christianity. Mahatma Ghandi once said and I quote "I like your Christ but I dislike your christians". Wasn't there a Judas Iscariot among the twelve? Stop wasting valuable time debating who is perfect and who isn't because there is none. "our righteousness are but like filthy rags in the presence of God. Train your mind to see the best in everyone around us. I was once a member of CEC and many of the issues you have post on this thread are true but they exist both in the religious and secular level. I enjoin everyone here (for or against) to do just one thing... Have Faith in God. That is the reason we are here on earth. Because by so doing we shall fulfill our purpose on earth. Your believe shall set you free. Dream of God

1st Corin 14

Joagbaje:


That's bible very scriptural ....read reference below.

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.



TRASH !!!! . No one teaches such things in ce . Speaking in tongues can't be taught . What we can say is rather to teach you on how to RECIEVE the holyspirit . Not how to speak in tongues. Christ embassy is a sound bible teaching ministry . And satan won't stop ,manipulating propangada . To gullible ears

. . .He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.

Even though an ignorant dude is hailing you here but You missed out on what would have helped you because laying on of hands is one of the ways you RECIEVE the holyghost .

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.



You're wrong , speaking in tongue (message) is different from praying in tongues . Message in tongues is for people , praying in tongues is to God, and God doesn't need an interpreter !

Joagbaje,-

In your rush to put that person in his place, you missed the point he was trying to make. His point was not the validity of tongues, his point was the falsehood behind the CE. He mentioned tongues as an example. You will notice that I have also not enumerated tongues as a reason why CE is a cult.

But even at that, you yourself agree that the method of teaching people how to speak with tongues is wrong. And you must agree that this practice is very common in your church; it will be wrong of you to fain ignorance of it here.

Lastly, the distinction BTW speaking and praying in tongues is not true. The bible talks of only one type of tongues, a language that can be understood. This tongues you practice where you just speak or pray with no understanding of what you are saying has no foundation in scriptures. The man you quoted is right after all, despite not being that knowledgeable in scriptures.

That said. I hope you can find time to respond to the real issues raised on the thread. The things that make your church s cult.

Joagbaje,
Much as you owe SirJohn 500K, I have to agree with you; praying for somebody to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit is not cultish and if it is, then the apostles/disciples were cultish.

Much as I have serious reservations against CEC, I don't think cheap gossip helps its critics

Joagbaje:


That's bible very scriptural ....read reference below.

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.



TRASH !!!! . No one teaches such things in ce . Speaking in tongues can't be taught . What we can say is rather to teach you on how to RECIEVE the holyspirit . Not how to speak in tongues. Christ embassy is a sound bible teaching ministry . And satan won't stop ,manipulating propangada . To gullible ears

. . .He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.

Even though an ignorant dude is hailing you here but You missed out on what would have helped you because laying on of hands is one of the ways you RECIEVE the holyghost .

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.



You're wrong , speaking in tongue (message) is different from praying in tongues . Message in tongues is for people , praying in tongues is to God, and God doesn't need an interpreter !

Gombs:


Skipped for obvious reasons.



yeah... i like this part a lot more



...and much more... But, what exactly is wrong with any of the above? Of course people take anything to extremes, but labelling them wrong all together is the greater evil.



We've been through this all, but i am willing to take you on, perhaps we may have a detailed discussion here.



would it be convenient to say, judging from your post that Jesus failed and lied to us when he said ALL power has been given unto us, and therefore asked us to heal the sick and cast out devils? i was studying last week and came upon a scripture, not that i havent seen it before, but... it gave me a whole new perspective of what Jesus did for Christians.

Hebrews 2 NIV
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—

15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants .

17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.



oh! I said "Lord God, thank you for what you did for me, I wish I can tell all the world this". The good book just told us Jesus broke the powers of he who had the power of death and free all those who's been in bondage of fear of death. Sickness and diseases, poverty etc are not of God, they put alot of folks under bondage, and subsequently fear of death.

Every disease is incipient death, and look, the bible said Jesus did this for descendants of Abraham ONLY (Born Again). Why did the writer have to be specific about the recipients of this work by Christ?




This statement portrays partly why He came. You should know that by now na. See Jesus' purpose here, written by the disciple Jesus loved the most.

1 John 3:8 KJV
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. [size=18pt]For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [/size]

Saving folks from sin by giving His life was a part, delivering them to their inheritance is another. That's was why He rose, God rose Him from the dead to prove Jesus is His son with power. His resurrection gave birth to the new creation, who is not subject to the rules of this world, including sickness and poverty. Why? Because the life of God is what the new creation has, it is called Zoe - the God kind of life ie eternal life.

Sickness, disease and poverty and all form of negativities are not from God, for if they were, we all ought to do God's will, and if sickness and poverty are His will for us, we might as well strive to be sick and/or poor.



Well, it is not fitly alright to end it thus, as you did. Jesus came to destroy the works of Satan, the machinations and structures Satan has ruled the world of men with. Jesus came to give much more. Some folks say Jesus came to restore the glory Adam lost, but that's not true. Jesus brought us a higher form of it. We're the Church of Jesus Christ, and the Lord Jesus has given us His glory: "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one" (John 17:22).

Saying Jesus came to save men from sin only (As you said "Nothing More" is erroneous. He save us from sin on the cross, that's what His death did, but what about His resurrection? That's the message of Easter, His resurrection power and the new creation.



Be ni



HA! Ogbeni

God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, FAR above all principalities and powers. Why did you omit this part?

We were all under a brutal rulership of Satan, God sent Jesus to deliver us from sin and bring us up to His rest- His glorious inheritance to the saints (Abraham's promises). That's the way it was with us before Christ came. We were like children; we were in bondage/slaves to the elements (basic spiritual principles) of this world.




but it did. A quick question bro, explain this to me as you would to a 5 year old.

3 John 1:2 Living Bible (TLB)

2 Dear friend, I am praying that all is well with you and that your body is as healthy as I know your soul is.




https://www.nairaland.com/1957135/midas-touch-balanced-approach-biblical#27289013

Maybe you need to refresh your memory sir.
"The truth is that in no way did Jesus live a "destitute, inferior, indigent, needy, impoverished, feeble, pitiful, lacking, insufficient" life. Those terms are all used in defining the meaning of the word "poor." "



Jesus was sick too? Tired? yes, but sick? cc:Alwaystrue, Bidam come and see o




your opinion, gladly, it doesn't matter.



Hab 2:14 King James Bible
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

it's a prophecy amigo!

This is a typically sad, but excellent response! It is totally representative of all the misconstrued mindsets and teaching of Scripture that comprise and corroborate this Word of Faith movement. God help us!

THE PSYCHOLOGICAL STRUCTURE OF CULTISM

A Comparison BTW Christian Science and Christ Embassy: Note the bold

Christian Science is an ingenious mixture of first-century Gnostic theology, eighteenth century Hegelian philosophy, and nineteenth century idealism woven into a redefined framework of Christian theology with an emphasis upon the healing of the body by the highly questionable practice of denying its objective material reality. In Christian Science there is a complete separation between the objective world of physical reality (matter) and the spiritual world of supernatural existence (mind). Mrs. Eddy taught that "man as God’s idea is already saved with an everlasting salvation." 12 Hence, it is unnecessary for Christian Scientists to think of themselves as sinners in need of a salvation they believe is already theirs by virtue of the fact that "man is already saved" because he is a reflection of the divine mind. However, in Christian Science there are disturbing psychological aberrations. Mrs. Eddy demanded of her followers that they abstain from any critical contact with the non spiritual elements of the illusory material world. She forbade the reading of "obnoxious literature," lest Christian Scientists become convinced that the physical body and its diseases, suffering, and inevitable death were real. There is in Christian Science a subconscious repression, a conscious putting out of one’s mind certain things which are disconcerting to the entire configuration of psychological patterns of conditioning.

Christian Scientists are conditioned to believe in the non-existence of the material world even though their senses testify to its objective reality. They continually affirm that matter has no true existence, and thus, in a very real sense, entertain a type of religious schizophrenia. One side of their personality testifies to the reality of the material world and its inexorable decay, while the conditioning process of Christian Science theology hammers relentlessly to suppress this testimony and affirm that the only true reality is spiritual or mental. In Margaret Mitchell’s classic novel Gone With the Wind, Scarlet O’Hara, the heroine, when confronted with the harsh realities of life in the wake of the Civil War, repeatedly states, "I’ll think about that tomorrow," as if not thinking about it today would eliminate the reality of its claim at that moment. When working with sensory data, Christian Scientists totally disassociate their religious convictions, for, if they did not, they would not continue to feed, clothe, or house their bodies. But in still another sense, they attempt to master the all-too-obvious frailties of the body by the application of a religion which denies the material reality of that body.

A psychologist of the behaviourist school in one sense does the same thing. In the office he may talk about "conditioning" and may associate everything, including his home, with mechanistic psychology; however, at home he still loves his wife and children, and doesn’t respond in that same manner. This is one of the chief reasons why Christian Scientists sometimes appear to be almost immune to the conviction of personal guilt as a result of sin. Guilt implies the threat of judgement and a standard which is the basis of that judgement; hence the reality of the concept of sin, which is transgression of the law of God. [b]Christian Scientists desperately want only a "good" world, a pleasant place full of happiness, life, love, and security. This they can have only if they deny the empirical evidence of the opposites of those concepts. In effect, they affirm the reality of "good" at the expense of the antithesis of "good," as if by denying the existence of evil one had annihilated evil!

There can be no doubt that there is "selective perception" in the mind of the Christian Scientist, which enables him to select those things which are of a metaphysical nature, disassociate them from the sense perception of the physical world, and still maintain his idealistic philosophy and Gnostic theology. This he accomplishes by repressing or suppressing any evidence to the contrary. By following Mrs. Eddy’s advice and avoiding what she would call "obnoxious literature," i.e., evidence that controverts the idealism of Christian Science philosophy, Christian Scientists avoid facing the damaging data of physical reality. It is in effect an act of unconscious suppression, utilised in order to escape the data.

Concluding our thoughts in this area we might say that in the kingdom of the cults we are actually seeing a mosaic of abnormal conditioned behaviour patterns that express themselves in a theological framework, utilising Christian terms perverted by redefinition and represented as "new insight," when in truth they are only old errors with new faces. The defence mechanisms on a psychological level are apparent when one considers the background and vocabulary of the cult systems. There exists, beyond a shadow of a doubt, an abnormal behaviour syndrome operating in the mentality of most cultists, which causes the cultist (in the case of Christian Scientists) to build his theological system upon a preconditioned and artificially induced criterion of evaluation, i.e., the divine mission and inspiration of Mary Baker Eddy. In the case of other cultists, the names Joseph Smith, "Pastor" Russell, Brigham Young, or any other cult authority figure could be supplied and the conditioned reflex would be virtually the same.[/b]

There are many more observations that could be made, but space will not permit. It is my hope that in observing and analysing the facets of cult behaviour patterns already discussed, the reader may obtain a deeper insight and appreciation of the psychological structure of cultism as it continues to influence a growing segment of professing Christendom, which is ill-prepared for the subtleties and dangers of such psychological and theological deviations.

You could replace Christian Science with Christ Embassy and Mary Eddy Baker with Chris Oyakhilome and the above passage will still not loose its significance.

Note that Christian Science are considered cults in main stream Christianity. There focus in religion was healing. They are prevalent mostly in the USA. The cult dates back to the 19 century.

The above passage is taken from Chapter 3 of Dr Martin's book.

vooks:
Joagbaje,
Much as you owe SirJohn 500K, I have to agree with you; praying for somebody to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit is not cultish and if it is, then the apostles/disciples were cultish.

Much as I have serious reservations against CEC, I don't think cheap gossip helps its critics

I don't owe sir john .

Joagbaje:

I don't owe sir john .

This is derailment but I will permit it for the time being.

Joagbaje, when you say you do not owe SirJohn money, are you saying you have paid the money you promised to give him if he could prove your healing claims wrong; or...

You are adding lying to the list of CE misdeeds?

WinsomeX:

But even at that, you yourself agree that the method of teaching people how to speak with tongues is wrong. And you must agree that this practice is very common in your church; it will be wrong of you to fain ignorance of it here.

I pray that you realize one day how wrong your assumption about CEC. Is. Our method of teaching is biblical. Teach people about the necessity of receiving the holyghost and laying hands on them . What more?

Lastly, the distinction BTW speaking and praying in tongues is not true. The bible talks of only one type of tongues, a language that can be understood. This tongues you practice where you just speak or pray with no understanding of what you are saying has no foundation in scriptures. The man you quoted is right after all, despite not being that knowledgeable in scriptures.

That said. I hope you can find time to respond to the real issues raised on the thread. The things that make your church s cult.

The bible talks about tongues of men and tongues of angels, tongues of men are earthly language ,tongues of angels are not. You may call it gibberish if you like. Speaking an earthly language by the spirit is for people as prophecy , not as prayer on to God. But praying in the spirit unto God is not earthly language . Groaning in the spirit may come under this category . It is gibberish to the ear but it's mystery to God.

Romans 8:26-27
-- Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

So there's earthly tongue and unknown tongue.

WinsomeX:


This is derailment but I will permit it for the time being.

Joagbaje, when you say you do not owe SirJohn money, are you saying you have paid the money you promised to give him if he could prove your healing claims wrong; or...

You are adding lying to the list of CE misdeeds?

He's not just honest that's all. I've explained my stand . Evidence shows There wasn't any manipulation . And he should have been patient to proper conclusion of investigation . Instead being so much in a hurry to make himself hero as usual. I was the one spending money to carry out his investigation. Yet he's not straight forward . We've gone this way before. That even reminds me he's owing me 500k for that other one

So you're not ashamed to still show your face here right?
You are the one who is dishonest, you never denied any of the facts I put out there. Your claim was debunked and that was what the challenge was all about. Whether or not you intentionally manipulated the whole thing is left between you and your god. There are a million questions still begging for answers in this jeffgate and I know you can't answer them.
You already admitted that you made a mistake and that this was Satan's attack on your ministry. If you don't mind, please tell the world how I am dishonest. You should rather be hiding your face in shame for being so unintelligent to be fooled by the person of Jeff, that is if actually you were not in on the whole thing.

Please post the link to where I owe you and I will pay up

Joagbaje:


He's not just honest that's all. I've explained my stand . Evidence shows There wasn't any manipulation . And he should have been patient to proper conclusion of investigation . Instead being so much in a hurry to make himself hero as usual. I was the one spending money to carry out his investigation. Yet he's not straight forward . We've gone this way before. That even reminds me he's owing me 500k for that other one

You dared him to disprove your healing claims which he did and then you pleaded ignorance. Please pay up and then come back and defend CEC

Joagbaje:


I don't owe sir john .

Joagbaje:
I pray that you realize one day how wrong your assumption about CEC. Is. Our method of teaching is biblical.

The prayer is mutual. But I have a resounding "Amen!!!" to say to yours though. Hope you will respond the same to mine.

Joagbaje:
Teach people about the necessity of receiving the holyghost and laying hands on them . What more?

What is more is that what you are doing has no basis in the bible. No one taught anyone how yo be born again or how to speak in tongues in the bible. God's servant preached his word and the Holy Spirit worked on men supernaturally.

Taking people to a corner and asking them to repeat gibberish after you is nonsensical.

Joagbaje:
The bible talks about tongues of men and tongues of angels, tongues of men are earthly language ,tongues of angels are not. You may call it gibberish if you like. Speaking an earthly language by the spirit is for people as prophecy , not as prayer on to God. But praying in the spirit unto God is not earthly language .

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

When Paul said "though I speak with tongues of angels" he was using a hyperbole. An exaggeration to drum in a point. He was not teaching a doctrine that angels have a specific language they speak with. The same goes with expression of faith that move mountains and so on. Scripture is replete with angelic encounters. There is no occasion where it was said they spoke with a tongue unknown to man.

There is no such thing as heavenly or earthly languages. Scriptures teaches of languages, which KJV old English translates as tongues. Language is language; tongue is tongue.

Joagbaje:
Groaning in the spirit may come under this category . It is gibberish to the ear but it's mystery to God.

The same explanation goes with the so called groaning in the Spirit.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Groaning in the Spirit is prayers. This scriptures doesn't say it is uttering unintelligible words. It is a deeper depth of prayers, no doubt.

Joagbaje:
1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.[/color]

This is the only scripture in the whole bible that suggest that speaking in tongues might imply that when you speak in tongues, only God understands.

The problem with this verse though is that no other scripture teaches such a concept; except you force them to do so.

The second point is that Paul clearly shows here that the induvidual is "speaking" not "praying".

So because we cannot find any other example where people were saying unintelligible words to God in scripture, we must conclude that this scripture is not teaching a doctrine of unintelligible speaking to God as prayers.

Acts 2 and 1 Cor 14 spoke of people SPEAKING in tongues. There is no evidence that the two events records different tongues: one an earthly one and the other a heavenly one. If they understood the tongues in Acts 2, Paul expected us to know that the tongues of 1 Cor 14 was understandable too.

Joagbaje:
So there's earthly tongue and unknown tongue.

No sir. Tongues are languages. There is no heavenly or earthly tongues. If what you speak is unintelligible to you or others, you speak gibberish.

So as not to derail this thread, this will be my last response to tongue issues. You may open a new thread for it if you wish to debate it further.

Joagbaje:

He's not just honest that's all. I've explained my stand . Evidence shows There wasn't any manipulation . And he should have been patient to proper conclusion of investigation . Instead being so much in a hurry to make himself hero as usual. I was the one spending money to carry out his investigation. Yet he's not straight forward . We've gone this way before. That even reminds me he's owing me 500k for that other one

If the investigations were not concluded, are they concluded now, almost six months after?

Because what is clear is that Jeff still has HIV and you said you healed him. You said anyone who could disprove the healing will get N500,000. sir John did and you came to this forum to say you made a mistake in believing Jeff. So pay up now. How could the man be owing you again?

Winsomex, Joagbaje,
A human unknown tongue would sound gibberish so there is no need to strain scriptures distinguishing between 'known tongues of men' and 'unknown tongues of Angels'. Note tongues of angels was used HYPOTHETICALLY just as offering your body to be burnt. Not that I doubt existence of these.

Besides, the reason there exists a gift of interpretation is obvious; seldom will the tongue be understood by both the one exercising the gift or others near him

Well, the thread is ruined. Derailed because some big babies here had to cry because Joagbaje is here, and probably giving them a hard time. Look at WinsomeX's last post, like he wasn't the fellow urging others not to derail, but had to take an 'exception' because it's jo. You couldn’t resist, no? Double standards?

Vooks, you should get a medal for derailment.

Can you, WinsomeX prove Satan is the custodian of CE? I can take you on that.

[quote author=SirJohn post=32516156]So you're not ashamed to still show your face here right?[/quote ]

Ashamed of what? These nothing to hide .

You are the one who is dishonest,

What's my dishonesty pls ?

You already admitted that you made a mistake

I didn't make a mistake . Among numerous testimonies of great miracles . A guy I never knew came testifies he too was healed of HIV . I editors brought out a video of "while he was being prayed for , I saw slight difference in the appearance but I assumed it was due to his sickness . But just to be sure . I asked for his numbers asked him what he was wearing while being prayed for . And also sent a link to him to watch the video and he confirmed he watched the video and he was the person being prayed for . What more evidence do I need . The horse has spoken. That's enough for me. But because I wanted to post this online ,I asked for his medical report and he said he didn't collect it. And I said " pls go and collect them ,because I want to post your testimony online . He said he would get it in the week. And I assume he did that. I posted my chat with him . So if there was a mistake . It's from the guy who said he was the one in the video without watching the video.

and that this was Satan's attack on your ministry

Satan can set any one up. Especially if you cast out demons a lot , which I do . So satanic set up happens a lot. But a honest man has nothing to fear. Everything Jeff said in the testimony suits what transpired between me and the other guy Perfectly .

. If you don't mind, please tell the world how I am dishonest.

You're more concerned about rubbishing joagbaje than finding out truth, you've been eager to go online to do your rubbish as usual . And I told you "be patient" The bottom of the Jeff matter is as important to me as well . Because if Jeff didn't get healed ,I can't phantom how on earth someone will climb the altar of God to testify a lie. What would be his gain? I'm curious to know . I'm willing to spend any amount , chatter a car get him hotel rooms and give him money for his trips if there need be to get to the bottom . But you kept pressing to go online . And also rubbishing me before the guy . You don't know how far I'm willing to go. It's not about clearing my name it's about . Asking Jeff his motives if it's true he didn't get healed. And I was cooperative with you. We even got the first medical paper from the hospital without Jeff knowledge . And planned to carry Jeff to do fresh medical test. You didn't spend a dime . But I lost interest in the matter after I saw the SMS you sent to Jeff that I wanted to use his testimony for glory or something like that. That's the one I saw only God knows what other things you did . Why getting in the way of an investigation , why launching attack at my person. Is it about the 500k? Do you know how much I'm willing to spend on the matter? I thought I was opened enough for you. Only to see the rubbish you're posting on Nairaland . Which is what you're after not the truth .

Please post the link to where I owe you and I will pay up

You claimed God doesn't heal again . And if anyone can present a miracle to you will travel to that place ,investigate ,talk with relatives and Neighbours and you will give 500k and Apologise in newspapers . I shared testimonies of people I prayed and got healed . You said you wanted more serious ones. I told you about a guy with leg ulcer or cancer for two years of treatment in the hospital without cure and when I prayed for him the leg healed up in one week . I mentioned also a lady with blindness who git healed almost instantly I prayed for her. You said you preferred that one. I took me effort to locate someone who gave me her number . Because it happened around 2007 or so . I called her and asked her again about her testimony . She confirmed she is still healed . And I told her I want to share her testimony online and some people may call her ,she should be free to cooperate . She only said I should not bring her to face crown . And I said it's only phone call.
I sent you the number and I was shocked you went on Nairaland claiming she was not blind. That's a big fat lie . I called the lady and she said you lied because she told you the whole testimony . You didn't travel there to as promised to find out , I posted her brother"s number ,who led her by hand to be prayed for . But you're more eager to rubbish as usual . The lady is still seeing perfectly today . 2weeks blindness healed within 15 minutes .

Hello negro

AlfaSelltzer:
Well, the thread is ruined. Derailed because some big babies here had to cry because Joagbaje is here, and probably giving them a hard time. Look at WinsomeX's last post, like he wasn't the fellow urging others not to derail, but had to take an 'exception' because it's jo. You couldn’t resist, no? Double standards?

Vooks, you should get a medal for derailment.

Can you, WinsomeX prove Satan is the custodian of CE? I can take you on that.

WinsomeX:


What is more is that what you are doing has no basis in the bible. No one taught anyone how yo be born again or how to speak in tongues in the bible. God's servant preached his word and the Holy Spirit worked on men supernaturally.

We never said we teach people how to speak in tongues . That can not be taught . You teach people about necessity of receiving the Holy Spirit . But You teach people way of salvation , and how to be saved .

Acts 18:26
And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Taking people to a corner and asking them to repeat gibberish after you is nonsensical.

I agree. We don't teach such . It's the spirit that gives utterance . We teach the necessity of the INFILLING, how to RECIEVE the INFILLING which is by faith just as you RECIEVE salvation by faith and we lay hands .