WinsomeX:
.

A wise way of avoiding the issues raised. It's been nice discussing with you too.

Bye bye.

vooks:
Hello Pastor,
Doctrines don't grow in the forest, and nor are they propagated by dolphins; they are taught by men, and the purveyors of false doctrines are false teachers. Hell is not reserved for false doctrines but for false teachers

So if Oyaks propagates falsehoods, we are supposed to JUDGE it. It would be very unthinking judging doctrines minus their purveyors. Recently, some four terrorists stormed a university and butchered 147 kids. According to Joagbaje, judge the doctrine, those were very innocent boys, in fact calling them terrorists is insulting. They are not even murderers, but murder of the 147 they did
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/04/africa/kenya-garissa-university-witnesses/

Let's look at how scriptures treat false teachers\prophet

Matthew 7:15 (KJV)
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

2 Cor 11:13 (KJV)
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ

2Peter 2:1 (KJV)
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction

The point is , you can't be wary of false doctrines while completely indifferent/ignorant of their teachers

PS: Has it ever occurred to you how this 'judge not' is applied selectively to pastors and not the laity/congregation?

Cc Winsomex, Trustman,SirJohn,Gombs

Joagbaje:


You're not discussing , you're insulting. The day you're ready for civilic discussion as christian we shall discuss .

2 Timothy 2:23-25
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

WinsomeX:
As we continue the study of Christ Embassy being a cult, my hope is that the readers understand that my reference to the CEC being a cult is not in that extreme manner of a group of people who make covenants in blood and hold meetings at night. This is the reason I refused to respond to an earlier comment where an individual resorted to the dictionary to define what a cult should be. I am not doing dictionary definition of cultism here. I am looking at cults as defined by Walter Martins in his book The Kingdom of the Cults and with reference to how the bible sees them.

Apart from the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and Christian Science, Dr Martins also did a study of many other cult groups, including the New Age movement, etc. I was very surprised to find Word of Faith listed as a cult in the Appendix of the book although my surprise was only a confirmation of something I have long suspected.

Joagbaje has commented on this thread with a seeming witty statement that Christianity could as well be a cult if CEC is one. Like a responder said to him, such a comment cannot detract from the matter on ground.

Dr Walter Martin was a sound evangelical Christian. His theological persuasion were derived from orthodox Protestant theologies, deeply rooted in the Reformed Tradition. He was not a Pentecostal and he did not list Pentecostalism as a cult in his book. In fact he did not include WoF as a cult in the original version of his book. But his followers deemed it fit to include WoF as cultic after his death and that's why it is listed in the appendix of the book.

Quite naturally the thought of CEC being a cult sounds distasteful and I'm certain even some that are my friends in this forum may think that my assertion is a little on the extreme but shall we consider the evidences before us without bias and shall we not take heed lest this false doctrine creep into our homes and into the lives of our children? Shall we permit a modern day Nigerian Jimmy Jones tragedy before we speak out?

Another person has shared on this thread how people he knows suddenly become "new creatures" the moment they imbibe CEC doctrines into their lives. With thinking of "I'm a god", "I can fly", "I can do all things", "the world is mine", "I do everything for the money", etc, replete in their thoughts and words.

I would continue the discuss as I try to retrieve salient quotes from Dr Martins on the cultist mental state, so that you can understand the CEC member next door even better.

Cheers.

- WX.

sammied:

So you now take the definition of a man's book to judge your brothers in Christ? What happened to getting answers from the Bible itself? If you so much believe in a man's book to the extent of using it to pass judgement on a body of believers... Are you not the number one cult member?
With all your submissions on the John McArthur conference.. Since then I have been praying for you. All I hear in your thread are just pure hatred for Christians who don't believe the same things as you. May God help you, because instead of edifying God's people, you bring far more confusions. Even Peter didn't understand a lot of Pauls writings.. Yet he didn't for a bitter critics club on him.
Are you truly a Christian? Are you truly a part of the body of Christ? If yes..... Then focus in edification of the body not pointing fingers..... Cos wen you point one finger... More points back at you.
If you were in the corinthians church in the Bible days... You will definitely call them a cult.... But Paul didn't... He only rebuked them on wot they were doing wrong but yet he praised what they were doing right. A lot of things were wrong with that church but yet Paul called them Holy brethren.
There's so much to say to you, but for lack of time I stop here. Remain blessed!

WinsomeX:


I said the same thing. You have only reiterated my position that CEC and others like it make MAN and not GOD the central focus of their gospel. Thank you for the confirmation.

WinsomeX:
SUMMARY OF THREAD UP TILL PAGE 5

INTRODUCTION BY WX: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult#32353049

CHRISTIAN SCIENCE, MORMONS, JEHOVAH WITNESSES AND WOF BY WALTER MARTIN: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult#32365032

THE FALSE GOSPEL OF CHRIST EMBASSY BY WX: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult/1#32381792

INTRODUCTION TO KINGDOM OF THE CULTS BY WALTER MARTIN: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult/1#32393735

CULT SEMANTICS BY WALTER MARTIN: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult/2#32417698

DISSECTING A CHRIS OYAKHILOME TEACHING BY WX: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult/3#32488776

THE PSYCHOLOGICAL STRUCTURE OF CULTISM BY WALTER MARTIN: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult/3#32514481

AN ANALYSIS INTO OYAKHILOME DOCTRINE OF "A MAN OF GOD CANNOT SIN" BY WX: www.nairaland.com/2237377/christ-embassy-church-cult/4#32592680

sammied:

Let me ask you:
Who should be/is the central focus of the gospel according to the scripture? My brother, throughout the Bible it's MAN... now before you scream let me ask you some questions.

.............

In conclusion, God made the gospel possible to save man... Only him deserve all the Glory.....

Joagbaje:


so the question is why would you call another person false , why not you ? What make you feel that your belief is to be accepted above the other. Let's humble ourselves . The word of God is not to be preached in strife and insult . So that if you're proven wrong ,there's atmosphere of acceptance and not political arrogance

2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;




That's still your own personal wrong judgment of me. Deal with facts and not persons .



The question to you still is : by what standard do you label another false teacher. Because his belief is different from yours? Or you don't like him? We ought to judge by the word. And not carnal political and emotional standard.

The day you people will be ready for pure christian talk without personal attack , we shall begin talk .because the bible says to ignore certain people .

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

sammied:


So you now take the definition of a man's book to judge your brothers in Christ? What happened to getting answers from the Bible itself? If you so much believe in a man's book to the extent of using it to pass judgement on a body of believers... Are you not the number one cult member?

With all your submissions on the John McArthur conference.. Since then I have been praying for you. All I hear in your thread are just pure hatred for Christians who don't believe the same things as you. May God help you, because instead of edifying God's people, you bring far more confusions. Even Peter didn't understand a lot of Pauls writings.. Yet he didn't for a bitter critics club on him.

Are you truly a Christian? Are you truly a part of the body of Christ? If yes..... Then focus in edification of the body not pointing fingers..... Cos wen you point one finger... More points back at you.

If you were in the corinthians church in the Bible days... You will definitely call them a cult.... But Paul didn't... He only rebuked them on wot they were doing wrong but yet he praised what they were doing right. A lot of things were wrong with that church but yet Paul called them Holy brethren.

There's so much to say to you, but for lack of time I stop here. Remain blessed!

sammied:


Habaa... What confirmation? If truly confirmation, then it's a positive one.

A lot of times, those who claim to know much actually knows nothing...

Let me ask you:
Who should be/is the central focus of the gospel according to the scripture? My brother, throughout the Bible it's MAN... now before you scream let me ask you some questions.

In the creation of the earth in Genesis.. Who was the central focus of the earth? Man or God?

Who did devil tempted and ultimately made to sin.... man or God?

In the old church who was the central focus.... Israel or God?

Who needed redemption from sin, who was going to hell without redemption? Who needed the gospel? Man or God?

Who did Jesus died n suffered for?
See I can ask more of this questions.... But let me stop.

It's outright lie of the devil.. N totally unbiblical to say Man is not the focus of the gospel.

If you disagree..... Please kindly provide five scriptures that says God is the focus of the gospel and I will kindly provide you with 10, 15 n even more from Genesis to revelation that says Man is the focus n reason for the gospel.

If man is not the focus of the gospel then there's no gospel in the first place. Gospel for God, Angels?

Now before you go hard on me.... Am not playing down the love, sacrifice and provisions of My father.... GOD almighty... his supremacy cannot be debated... He made the gospel to save man possible, without him no salvation or gospel for man. In fact he's the one who made man the focus of the gospel, for its man who needed the gospel n not him.

In conclusion, God made the gospel possible to save man... Only him deserve all the Glory.....

vooks:
How do you edify believers who subscribe to falsehoods?
You should be worried about the veracity of Winsomex claims not preoccupying yourself with psychoanalysis

vooks:
When Winsomex says MAN, he means a PERSONALITY called Oyakhilome.
It is rather obvious that the gospel from Genesis to Revelation is all about restoring MAN bck to God. Man in this sense means HUMANITY.

So please drop equivocation

sammied:


Believers who subscribe to "falsehood" whatever your falsehood means are still Believers. I do not know whether all the things Winsomex is saying about CE is true as I am not familiar with that body of Believers.

My point remains....there's nothing happening in any true Christian body today that didn't happen in the corinthian church.
Fornication, adultery, fighting, abuse and even worshipping man.. (remember the case of Appollos)? Hope u understand what I mean by 'worshipping man'?
Yet with all this, what was Paul attitude? Criticism or rebuke? Did condemned them and label them false Believers and a cult?

I careless about all the things Winsomex normally write about. I have been following him for a while. Am yet to read anything edifying, comforting, corrective or even rebuke from him. Most times it is all about criticizing different body of Believers. To HIM, HE HAS THE BEST DOCTRINE, BEST KNOWLEDGE, BEST PRACTICES, BEST BIBLE UNDERSTANDING, His INSIGHT IS BLAMELESS.... etc... that's all.

That a body of Believers are doing something wrong does not make them a cult. Rebuke them for the wrong. BUT ALSO LOOK OUT FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING RIGHT AND PRAISE THEM ACCORDINGLY.

Where did he get his idea of a cult to pass judgement? The Bible? Or from a Man's book?

To answer your question : you can edify Believers who subscribe to falsehood by doing exactly what Paul did with the corinthian church. Rebuke, correct, pray for their restoration and also look out for what they are doing right and encourage it.

Remember how Our Lord Jesus dealt with the seven Churches in Revelation? Even those he went as far as saying that he would spit them out of his mouth.... Yet he didn't still label them. That's how to edify believers who are walking in error. I guess that's enough example.

Be careful of labelling God's people.

Remain blessed.

vooks:
False doctrines are not new, we were warned of this by Paul right in Acts before he penned any epistle.
You may opt to ignore them and pray about them or to just speak out about them. What's the whole idea of being charged to prove all things, test spirits?

One of the reasons there is so much rot in Christianity is because believers have abdicated their duty to contend for their faith. Truth is sacrificed at the altar of 'unity'. If fellow believers can't point out falsehoods, who should? Angels or monkeys?

Now, nobody disputes that believers remain believers despite subscribing false doctrines, what Winsomex is saying is holding on to these is dangerous and may have eternal consequences. Let's stretch your logic; a believer, a pastor who sleeps around with the entire choir and other pastors' wives is still a believer, right? A believer, pedophile is still a believer, right? A believer, a closet homosexual is still a believer, right? And a believing serial killer is no psychopath, just that he trips every so often right?

you are stalling this by engaging in semantics.

Next is Winsomex' attitude and approach. While it is good to observe him, regaling us with your psychological analysis of his NL persona helps little in this thread. Stick to the subject and refute him where you can

sammied:


I guess you ignored my answers to your initial question...

Well... With above questions that you ask... We all know the answer. But that's not my case here.

My response to Winsomex and to you is that: because there's a believing serial killer among a body of believers... Does that make every one of them serial killers?

Because a believer impregnated 8 girls among a body of believers is that enough reason to label everyone of them fornicators or adulterers?

I am not a CE member. It's the same issues Winsomex and the John McArthur groups have with other groups. Because of cases of wrongs, some incorrect beliefs, they go ahead to name and label those groups with unpleasant terms.

A man even impregnated his step mother in the corinthians church, did Paul label them based on that?

Please go through my previous response and you will know that I said, wrongs, abuses, unbiblical doctrine should be rebuked and call out among believers. But then those single acts are not enough reasons to label that body of believers Cults. If you do that, then the Corinth church should be called a cult. Don't you think so?


About sticking to the subject, 90% of what I have said is about the subject.... If otherwise, please kindly point out.

Lastly, what I said about Winsomex are my personal opinion about him. I have never met him, but from gleaning from his writings ...thats all it is without apologies. He's free to have his personal opinion about me too.. the same with you. That's why God made us different from each other. That doesn't make those opinions absolutely right.

Remain blessed.

vooks:
sammied,
Nobody is labeling everyone. What may have escaped you is that a particular sect's doctrines and practice are controlled by one man or centrally by a very small group. If the doctrines are cultic; unbiblical, overly controlling, that is not to mean that every member of the congregation is cultic.

I don't know how else one can approach false doctrines and manipulation

Kenny4lyfe:
@Sammied
I should bring this to your notice (you must've been familiar with it since you've been following WinsomeX's post for quite a while but I'll share it anyway);
WinsomeX, vooks and co. derives pleasure in going round in circles. They like to twist and turn issues to suit their own opinion (not that their opinion matter though), they ignore truths even if it stares right into their faces (they even circumvent it most times), which is exactly what they're doing with your submission thus far.
Just thought I should give you a heads up bro.
God bless you!

sammied:

I guess so... Cos it's seems nothing one says ever makes meaning to them except their own opinions.
Thank you Bro.

Kenny4lyfe:


WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT PASTOR CHRIS OYAKHILOME?

In remote and recent past, several tabloids and publications have made headlines on several TV stations and Newspapers around the world about Pastor Chris. But the puzzle is: the more the gossips, or the tabloids, the more undeterred and unshaken this celestial phantom in human frame is, posing a question: Who’s is Pastor Chris?

Now follow me to find out some salient truths about this Apostolic wonder walking the earth as I share with you just one infallible secret about him in diverse shades. Interesting huh?

1. Pastor Chris had an early Childhood encounter with Jesus Christ and on or before the age of 15, he already began his ministry.

2. Pastor Chris found his purpose for living pretty early in life and embarked on his journey without distraction.

3. Pastor Chris Speaks in tongue more than his neighbours in faith; a deep truth learnt from Apostle Paul which has made his Journey a Smart Option.

4. Pastor Chris is Selfless and Lavishly Invests in the gospel to the tune of billions.

5. Pastor Chris is viewed as one of the Richest Men in the World, yet he lives only on 5% percent of his income whilst putting 95% of it into the gospel and projects that see to human development. [/b]

6. Pastor Chris is viewed as a very debonair man, in fact many think he is too handsome to be in human frame, yet you will cry if you ever get to see his knees because of the impact of unlimited kneeling in the place of prayer.

7. Pastor Chris is the First African Pastor to own a 24hour Gospel Satellite TV station reaching the world from Africa.[9
/color]

8. [color=#990000] Pastor Chris’ operation in the revelation of God’s word, demonstration of the anointing, and Relationship with the Holy Spirit is a wonder which is uncommon in any man of God since modern history of the Church.

9. Pastor Chris became the first and only worldwide Pastor who has proven the wonder of the use of technology in running a global evangelism and ministry operation in very fascinating scope.

10. Pastor Chris premiered “Future Africa Leaders Awards” (FALA) in 2014; an honour platform to develop and challenge the new world of extraordinary Leaders for the next future of Africa, under “Chris Oyakhilome Foundation”.

11. Pastor Chris is the Owner of Yookos; The fastest growing social media network in the world which is built with security wares that disallow profane and explicit contents.

12. In 2007, Pastor Chris made a Legendary teaching which provided a timeless insights and infallible truth about “Nationhood” beyond what Geographers and Social Scientist ever knew or thought: a lesson to the United Nations.

13. INNER CITY MISSION is a global mission outreach platform for indigent Children and families by Christ Embassy which provides the best welfare packages in the world to the beneficiaries at exclusive rate.


14. Pastor Chris has raised the greatest music force in the world and Christ Embassy has the largest music and creative/performing arts dynasty in the world.

15. Christ Embassy has some of the billionaires in the world as members and pastors. Some of the greatest Music Legends in the world are members and leaders in the Church also.

16. Christ Embassy is a Pacesetter Church in the whole world.

17. Pastor Chris is the greatest teacher of the Bible alive.

18. Everyone who associates with Pastor Chris becomes a huge success.

19. Christ Embassy owns one of the largest internet multimedia platform and App content  factory in the world.

20. Pastor Chris is a Professor of Theology and holds a PhD in Pneumatology-a study of the Holy Spirit and other Celestial Beings.

21. Pastor Chris holds global services which are beamed live to teeming audience across 7 Continents of the World at a time through satellite and web technology. His TV stations, media contents and Multimedia platforms are some of the best in the world.

22. Pastor Chris owns multiple platforms that are amongst the biggest employers of Labour in the world. His Satellite and Cable TV channels reach over a half of the world’s population on daily basis.


http://xtrimuse..com/2015/04/25-things-you-may-not-know-about-pastor.html?m=1

kenny4life:

WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW ABOUT PASTOR CHRIS OYAKHILOME? [/color]
In remote and recent past, several tabloids and publications have made headlines on several TV stations and Newspapers around the world about Pastor Chris. But the puzzle is: the more the gossips, or the tabloids, the more undeterred and unshaken this celestial phantom in human frame is, posing a question: Who’s is Pastor Chris?

kenny4life:

Now follow me to find out some salient truths about this Apostolic wonder walking the earth as I share with you just one infallible secret about him in diverse shades. Interesting huh?

kenny4life:

1. Pastor Chris had an early Childhood encounter with Jesus Christ and on or before the age of 15, he already began his ministry.

kenny4life:

2. Pastor Chris found his purpose for living pretty early in life and embarked on his journey without distraction.

kenny4life:

3. Pastor Chris Speaks in tongue more than his neighbours in faith; a deep truth learnt from Apostle Paul which has made his Journey a Smart Option.

kenny4life:

4. Pastor Chris is Selfless and Lavishly Invests in the gospel to the tune of billions.
5. Pastor Chris is viewed as one of the Richest Men in the World, yet he lives only on 5% percent of his income whilst putting 95% of it into the gospel and projects that see to human development. [/b]

kenny4life:

6. Pastor Chris is viewed as a very debonair man, in fact many think he is too handsome to be in human frame, yet you will cry if you ever get to see his knees because of the impact of unlimited kneeling in the place of prayer.

kenny4life:


7. Pastor Chris is the First African Pastor to own a 24hour Gospel Satellite TV station reaching the world from Africa.[9
/color]

kenny4life:

8. [color=#990000] Pastor Chris’ operation in the revelation of God’s word, demonstration of the anointing, and Relationship with the Holy Spirit is a wonder which is uncommon in any man of God since modern history of the Church.

kenny4life:

9. Pastor Chris became the first and only worldwide Pastor who has proven the wonder of the use of technology in running a global evangelism and ministry operation in very fascinating scope.

kenny4life:


10. Pastor Chris premiered “Future Africa Leaders Awards” (FALA) in 2014; an honour platform to develop and challenge the new world of extraordinary Leaders for the next future of Africa, under “Chris Oyakhilome Foundation”.

kenny4life:

12. In 2007, Pastor Chris made a Legendary teaching which provided a timeless insights and infallible truth about “Nationhood” beyond what Geographers and Social Scientist ever knew or thought: a lesson to the United Nations.

kenny4life:

13. INNER CITY MISSION is a global mission outreach platform for indigent Children and families by Christ Embassy which provides the best welfare packages in the world to the beneficiaries at exclusive rate.

kenny4life:

14. Pastor Chris has raised the greatest music force in the world and Christ Embassy has the largest music and creative/performing arts dynasty in the world.

kenny4life:

15. Christ Embassy has some of the billionaires in the world as members and pastors. Some of the greatest Music Legends in the world are members and leaders in the Church also.

kenny4life:

16. Christ Embassy is a Pacesetter Church in the whole world.

kenny4life:

17. Pastor Chris is the greatest teacher of the Bible alive.

kenny4life:

18. Everyone who associates with Pastor Chris becomes a huge success.

kenny4life:

19. Christ Embassy owns one of the largest internet multimedia platform and App content  factory in the world.

kenny4life:

20. Pastor Chris is a Professor of Theology and holds a PhD in Pneumatology-a study of the Holy Spirit and other Celestial Beings.

kenny4life:

21. Pastor Chris holds global services which are beamed live to teeming audience across 7 Continents of the World at a time through satellite and web technology. His TV stations, media contents and Multimedia platforms are some of the best in the world.

kenny4life:

22. [color=#990000] Pastor Chris owns multiple platforms that are amongst the biggest employers of Labour in the world. His Satellite and Cable TV channels reach over a half of the world’s population on daily basis.

WinsomeX:
I just saw this on front page. Follow me to examine it closely as I try to prove my central thesis here that CE is a cult.
The truth is that the Nigerian tabloid had been reporting a lot more scandal of Pastor Chris and a publication like this will go a long way in redeeming his image.
"Apostolic wonder"... Quite some title don't you think?
Now that's what I have been looking for which I had not seen anywhere else. Every cult requires the founder/prophet/god to have some supernatural encounter. This encounter is what elevates them to the level of the superhuman and that separates them from ordinary members. It could be an angekic encounter, a mystwrius happening when the chap was in the wimv, some dream, a voice that spoke to him, etc. The bible is never enough. Faith is never enough. There must be some ENCOUNTER...
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
OK. Following...
Who are these "neighbours in the faith"? Fellows Pentecostals or Fellow WoFaither?
There is only one way to prove the god-man nature, to equate yourself with the bible apostles, and that is to claim to speak in tongues more than anyone else.
Following...
Well, it is your word. I wish I could believe it. Though it could be true, considering the billion these people reap people of.
Like he is Apostle John or Praying Hide. Myth. Can we see some pictures please?
I will not dispute this. Its quite possible.
Hero worship at best. Man worship. The making of god Oyakhilome.
What we used to know in those days was that the holiest men were those most keenly aware of their own depravity. It is the other way round now.
Well if you insist, I will say the only other person that rivals him at this level is T B Joshua.
OK.
Impressive.
How does it add to the gospel?
Can you offer a link to this teaching please?
Impressive.
I quite agree. One aspect of CE is the really beautiful music they make. Though what does it take to make music? Be really smart and talented. Ask R. Kelly, Rihanna or Beyonce.
Well, is this really a spiritual thing? To have rich folks in church.
Same way Oyo State is the pacesetter state in Nigeria? Common. Let's cut down on this self glorification. Nothing spiritual about it.
Yes. Like rivalling Jesus' teaching ministry. gods in the making...
Very tempting offer. I'm not moved. Gospel preaching is not salesmanship.
Congratulation. How is this spiritual in anyway?
Now this got my attention. Please provide school and year of attendance, pls. No honorary degrees from loveworld schools o!
Impressive. Congrats.
O yea. Like many rich and worldly CEOs. I'm yet to see what is really spiritual about this.
Compare all this self glorification to another apostle of scripture:
1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 4:8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day...

sammied:


What more can I say? I guess nothing more.

Thank you

sammied:


I guess so... Cos it's seems nothing one says ever makes meaning to them except their own opinions.

Thank you Bro.

You're welcome bro!

vooks:

Respond methodically to points raised by Winsomex.

Thank you

MuttleyLaff: