Fabdedon:
maybe that is why it is revelation not supposed to be very clear..

AdeniyiA:
Haven't u dreamt of seeing yourself doing something and at d same time watching .
@xynerise

emusmith:
Some say 12 are the twelve sons of Israel and the remaining 12 are the twelve apostles

jcross19:
in heaven they are nine hierarchy of government which the angels -arch angels-power - dominion - virtue-thrones - cherub - seraphim - God himself,so the thrones are 24 elders in heaven that rule over kingdoms in heavens even before the foundation of earth was made. In genesis 1:26 these HE refer to let make a man in "OUR" own image. When they refer God king of kings do you think those are only earthly kings? Even in heavens they are kings as well rule over by one king.

xynerise:

So you are saying he was speaking with the 24 elders here?

Sanmix2007:
i think john here is another prophet not the john of jesus disciple

gatiano:
The 24 Elders are actually A UNION CALLED GOD OR ALLAH. There are 12 Men Elders and 12 Women Elders. Every person has a complement. We come in pair "male and female".
Out of the 24 Elders, One of them is the leader who is the patriach of this 25000 years cycle (we are on the 15,101 year), The next Leader WILL BE a Woman.

12 couples (12 men and 12 women).
Each couple choose 12 helpers each which makes it 12 by 12 = 144. Those are the 144 chiefs (72 males and 72 females).

Each chief choose for themselves 1000 helpers, 144 by 1000 = 144000 thus the Judges in the bible (72000males and 72000females).

24 Elders are The custodians of the cosmic unity
144 Chiefs are the custodians of all universal force and energy
144000 Judges are the custodians of life and reality manifestation.

Who then is that one on the Throne?

jcross19:
in heaven they are nine hierarchy of government which the angels -arch angels-power - dominion - virtue-thrones - cherub - seraphim - God himself,so the thrones are 24 elders in heaven that rule over kingdoms in heavens even before the foundation of earth was made. In genesis 1:26 these HE refer to let make a man in "OUR" own image. When they refer God king of kings do you think those are only earthly kings? Even in heavens they are kings as well rule over by one king.

Sanchez01:

PLEASE, DO NOT BLASPHEM!

xynerise:
I was reading through Revelation Chapter 9,10 and 11 and I found a place where the 24 elders were mentioned sitting on thrones. I usually believe the 24 elders are the 12 Tribes of Israel and the 12 disciples of Jesus but then I asked, If the 12 disciples are among the 24 elders, why was John not among because he was the one seeing the revelation?

Sanchez01:

When God said "Let's make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness..." He was referring to Himself (The Godhead and Father), Jesus (The Son - John 1-5) and His Spirit (Gen 1).

To verify this, 1 John 5:7-8 verifies this, saying

"
For there are three that bear record in
heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy
Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in
earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the
blood: and these three agree in one."

Having established this, it would then be impossible to say the Elders were around at the beginning of Creation because they were only mentioned in Revelations.

jcross19:
don't say what you don't know about God the bible is there to open yours a bit to know the truth a the supreme optimum God. In isaiah 1:18 shows God love associates , conversing with people and show God have kingdoms he rule unpon. Check ezekiel 28 vs 12 to 18 you will see that God is not the only one in His government. Then psalm 104vs 4 says: blessed be unto God who made his angels to be a spirits and His minister to be a flaming fire. Then who are the minister of God in that verse referring to ? Man of God or prophets .you better for God understanding the word of God.God is a everlasting king and He has the cabinets that rule with him, 24 elders are part of them.

Sanchez01:


You obviously missed some points. I'll ask some questions and I expect you answer them in the negative or the affirmative.

1. Did the Bible mention that the Elders were with God from the start?

2. Did the Bible mention that Christ was with God at the beginning? (Read John 1:1-6)

3. Did the Bible also make any reference to the Spirit of God before Creation? (Gen 1:1)

With this questions being answered, you would agree with me that I mentioned earlier that the Trinity was very much active at the time of Creation. With Jesus and the Spirit of God, the third person description "us" would not come into play. Please note that the Elders are NOT part of His government as you claimed because He does not operate a democratic or earthly kind of government.

It seems you already answered the question on who angels, ministers and flaming fire are, I'd gladly tell you that you didn't answer some of them rightly.

To arrive at this, we must look at the word "minister".

It means a messenger or a servant. I talked about this on another thread yesterday. A minister is a servant or a messenger and his duty is to DO the will of his lord (Note: lord is not spelt "Lord".

Also, to get a better understand of Ps 104:4, I'd recommend you use an NIV or any other than the KJV. Again, you wrongly assumed the ministers of God in Ps 104:4 are the Elders whereas the passage said "He made his ministers (servants or messengers) flames of fire.

Again I ask, was there a time the Bible described the Elders as flaming fires? Are the Elders servants or messengers according where you suggested?

To help you out, the MINISTERS being referred to are ANGELS but not your regular angels. They are called SERAPHS and they are the closest to God as their main tasks are to worship God for who He is. Seraphs or Seraphim Angels are "ministers", servants or messengers like other Angels but their task is by the Throne, to worship day and night.

Thus, when Ps 104:4 says "Who maketh His angels spirit; His ministers flaming fire" it meant the angels are as winds while the Seraphs who worship at the Throne are as fire.

Seraphims literally mean "The burning ones" - Eze 1:4-25, and these Seraphs each have six wings - Isa 6:2; Rev 4:6-8.

I wouldn't want us to digress from the reason why the OP created this thread but I'd advise that you read the passages I provided before giving a rebuttal.

jcross19:
what is the meaning of heavenly host? Did the mention angels in the beginning? Are you telling me that in the creation of earth and heaven simply means that angels were in not in existent if there were not mentioned? The government of God differ from ours okay as for there is a rules and regulations in heaven those that were offenders will be cast out that was the case of the fallen angels. See let me explain to you the government of God: angels - arch angels - principality - virtues - powers - dominions - thrones(24 elders falls to this category)-cherubums - seraphims -God himself. The arch angels are the seven spirit of God that always stand before God according to match luke 1vs19. In ephesian 6 vs 12 talk about principality and powers these are part of heavenly's own before they failed. Bible was written in a mighty forms if you don't ask spirit of understanding to on you ,you won't understand it.know in that rev.4vs6-9 you will see that they were with crown. These are the people they call thrones in heavens they have their own branches or kingdom as well but been ruled by one I mean one king this is part of reason they call God king of kings.pray for God to reveal it to you.basic.

Sanchez01:

It seems you're more concerned with winning an argument than learning.

To disappoint you, angels were mentioned at the at the beginning. They were there but did not come to play, not until Gen 3:24. Lucifer was an angel before his fall, how come he was able to come into the garden? Please go back to your Bible to keep yourself informed. Angels manifested from Gen 3:24 to Revelations. And to think you wrongly applied Ps 104:4 earlier by saying the Elders are flaming fire is a bit shameful for a believer to say. Please go and study harder.

Surprisingly, most of what you wrote were not demanded, hence the need to respond to them is irrelevant. And since you are very much vast in knowledge about the government of God, I'd like your next response to explain in details the roles and function of each arm, particularly their position when God make decisions. Again, let's not digress from the main subject matter. Please pray for understanding better. You honestly need it. This is about learning, not winning any argument because there's none in the first place

simplex2:
I love it when christians argue;...