well personally beatin a child is just not the rite way to tell em what they did is wrong their some thing u ain't got to beat em up for u can spank them or talk to them and make them understand that what they did is wrong u ain't got to bruise them on their body for them to remember not to do it agai because it might get to a point the child gon get use to it and that is y alot of kidz are going astray this days and its all because lack of communications with their parent  when i was still in Nigeria i went to my friendz house and i think she did somtin wrong so her mama started to whoop her and it wasn't even somtin wrong its always about her and her lil siblings but she always get whooped for it then her mum later found out that she didn't do it instead of her apologisin her mum was like i can't apologise to u because my mama didn't apologose to me she taught me and he got that child so mad that she had to tell her mum that that is y u got pregnant at 17 her mum was so mad that she started whoopin her again

now what do u call that?

All livin entities throughout the galaxy, read this and send you comments.

Thank you.

now what do u call that?

Child abuse of course. Absolute power corrupts African parents absolutely. Our children are our slaves.

ha hmm

kiki:

well personally beatin a child is just not the rite way to tell em what they did is wrong their some thing u ain't got to beat em up for u can spank them or talk to them and make them understand that what they did is wrong u ain't got to bruise them on their body for them to remember not to do it agai because it might get to a point the child gon get use to it and that is y alot of kidz are going astray this days and its all because lack of communications with their parent when i was still in Nigeria i went to my friendz house and i think she did somtin wrong so her mama started to whoop her and it wasn't even somtin wrong its always about her and her lil siblings but she always get whooped for it then her mum later found out that she didn't do it instead of her apologisin her mum was like i can't apologise to u because my mama didn't apologose to me she taught me and he got that child so mad that she had to tell her mum that that is y u got pregnant at 17 her mum was so mad that she started whoopin her again

now what do u call that?

@kiki - very interesting post

You have highlighted the fact that many parents go over board while disciplining their kids. Imagine, the woman found
out that she had whipped her son for no reason and doesn't feel any remorse Many parents abuse their children
under the guise of disciplining them and all you hear from them is "that is what my parents did when I was growing up"
- does that make it right ?

GNature:

@kiki - very interesting post

thanx

I argue that there is a universal standard for dealing with children and that is "you must be humane". If beating a child is inhumane then lets not rationalize it to be something else. What I see is that a lot of people try to use examples that really do not apply, while they ignore the facts that violence begets violence. The fact that one is closer to the mum or dad has nothing to do with their style of discipline. Was your mom a sit at home mom and your dad was always away at work? Is your mom more likely to talk about mundane things and your dad more about business? Was your mom more emotional and caring? Look for why you are closer to your mom than because he beat you. You insult your relationship with your mom if you ascribe it to the fact that she beat you. I'm sure she won't be proud of that.

Also I want draw your attention to an important observation I made according to fayalitte, and I quote "my last brother received less or no cane because he was gentle or even sensible wheres me and my immediate younger one were the die hard always trying to prove a point of exploit and as such we got the whooping which has made us the better"

Don't you see the point I have been trying to make here, the last brother, last child is always spoilt, given more attention because the parents are older and less inclined to beat. So as a child they probably did not beat him. How did he turn out? According to you he was gentle and even sensible. You want to say he was not beaten because he was gentle and sensible, but I argue that he was gentle and sensible because he was not beaten and therefore there was never a need to beat him.

Menwhile, fayalitte and his/her immediate younger one were die hards, always trying to prove a point and alway's getting whooped. I think they were hardened by the early beating they must have received, because I can tell that their parents beat them early and hardened them. It is inconceiveable to think that the beating made you better, because if the beaten was effective from the get go, then there will be no need to be made better. You all would have been gentle and sensible like your brother that was not beaten.

So you see, beating is innefective and only hardens the abused children.

Please Nigerians, stop beating your children. As we talk about how rowdy western children are and how rude and etc. I can tell you that what you see are individuals with a sense of self, that say what they think and grow up to be civilized and succesful people. That is what we should want for our children, what they end up being, and not how rude they are when they are 2 years old. I am not arguing that children should be allowed to run wild, but as we try to reign them in, let us be wary of inflicting permanent damage to their psyche.

I understand how difficult it is to bring up children without beating them, and that beating them is the easiest way to stop them from doing what you don't want them to do. However, if we invest enough time we can achieve the same thing with other methods of discipline. If you do not have that time to invest, then please do NOT have children because you will only be an unfit parent.

@owen

well lack of communication between kidz and their parent is bad it make them hide alot of anger in them and alot of things they should tell u and whoopin a child all d time will draw the child away from from the parent well i know their are alot of times u'll need to spank( not whoop) the child but mostly when u want to dicipline a child communicate with him/her first try to find out what happened how it happend and why it happened try to go deep when talkin so u'll be able to know wat is going on with the child then u'll know wat to do but when all u do is whoop d child anything the child does u just whoop even when he is tellin the truth u don't care as long as someone from outside said it is bad u got to whoop ur child won't wanna tell u nothin cos they know u gon whoop em anywayz

The thing is; it works differently for different children

Absolutely agree.

My mum beat me so much with everything i can think of (koboko, stick, firewood, rod, rubber cord, broom, belt, pestle, slippers, etc) and after a while i got used to it. still did the things i did that got her mad. she also got tired when she realised the beatings made no difference to me anymore. And this happened because you are being beaten up most of the time for doing something that if you had been told how or when to do it, you wouldn't have done it when or how you did it.

Sometimes i wonder if our Nigerian parents expect that once a child is past breastfeeding age, he/she should know everything at once. you will hear things like "at your age, don't you know that, ", when you have never been told anything about it before.

Because of the kind of relationship i had with my parents, i want a better one with my kids. Does not mean they would not be shown the way of the rod sometimes, but it would be used appropriately, and together with other methods.

Even till now the relationship has not gotten any better, and i don't know if it will. And there are somethings i never told them and will definitely never tell them.

my dad has only slapped me once
my mum beat me all the time with almost everything when i was young.
Nowadays she just yells at me or throw something at me.
but when i was younger i hardly cry,when she finished beating me i just put my thumb ib my mouth and run off to play,

i think parents should stop beating for every crime commited instead they should punish using other means, most kids just say 'kanda warm kanda kol" meaning i only feel when you are beating but as soon as you stop i dont feel any more.

most kids nowadays are over-troublesome so no matter how hard or frequent you beat them they never change,

I remember that when i started this thread, i was talking about how kids are so scared of their parents that they never tell them anything. We have now established that most of us were beaten and also that some will like to take this approach on their kids.

Now the question is have you ever had a problem with your uncle, auntie, teacher etc that you couldn't relate this to your parents probably not because you thought they'll beat you but just out of fear.

Are you scared of your parents OR were you scared of your parents? Will you use the same approach if or when you have kids? Is this approach of beating the kids and on asking why they've been beaten, you reply JUST IN CASE a good approach or does it just compound the fear?

Tinard.
whenever i did something at school, i always pray that my dad comes for me and not my mum cuz if she does am in trouble, even when i got to secondary school, i will leave school and take a taxi home and as soon as i get home i call her and tell her not to worry cuz if she knew that i did anything wrong i'll be grounded and punished

Most kids fear the Dad but its so funny that the dads hardly beat us , we feel much closer to our mums because we feel that she's someone we can relate to at any time,

when i have kids i will use a much different approach but that doesnt mean that i wont cane them from time to time, i'll only introduce the cane ones ina while so that they'll know that it only comes out when they have really angered me.
i had this uncle who does not cane when you do something,instead he will wait for you to commit another trouble maybe 4 or 5 times and then he canes you, i nor tell you lie but those strokes really hurt, sometimes am not able to sit properly for days

Thanks for sharing your traumatic experiences. Try your best not to do the same to your children.

Like some people have said, you have to use wisdom to know when to spare the rod and when not to. You can't tell me that not sparing the rod is the right thing neither can you tell me that sparing the rod everytime is the right thing. though i was a mystery to my parents when i was younger; my dad still di his best to talk to me and also use the rod on me whenever he needed to. talking about taking priviledges fro kids in nigeria, what kind of priviledge can you take from kid? that just sounds like a joke to me. being humane like someone said earlier is just the right thing. regardless of how you were brought up in nigeria, there's this general different level of discipline of nigerian kids when compared to the ones in US. I see them everyday and work with them. we just need to stop generalising, there are times that kids need to get whopped and there are times we need to talk to them

A child is Gods gift to us. It is our duty to take care of them.
And not beat them like cows. These days even animals have rights.
Beatings the easy way out.
My kids also do wrong and they also Love and respect me. They do not fear and respect me.
And the most important thing is they can talk to be about anything, but b4 they do they try to find out my mood.
If my clild tif in a shop i will not beat the child.I may just start to cry and that pains the child more than a beating. (just an example)
If my child is not so good in school i will not beat the child i went to get a teacher for lesson problem solved. I had to because when i learn with her i was getting annoyed and smacked her she will cry and nothing will enter the head again,The lesson teacher cost alot of money but in the long run it was worth it.
I am out of the house from 12 pm to 8 pm and the house runs without me and still standing.
It goes with out beating. and i badly regrat the few times i did it .

But am happy to say all my kids can count on one hand the amount of times i beat them.
But never ever did i use a stick or any other object

Nairalanders,

Let's visit the Manufacturer's Manual on this issue.  I've tried to quote some relevant portions here.  There are many more.  Please read with open mind because this is straight from the manual:

[list]
[li]Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22: 6[/li]

[li]Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Proverbs 22:15[/li]

[li]The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother shame. Proverbs 29: 15[/li]

[li]He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes. Proverbs 13: 24[/li]

[li]Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14[/li]

[li]Children obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Ephesians 6:1[/li]

[li]And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Ephesians 6: 4[/li]

[li]Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.  Fathers, don't provoke your children, so that they won't be discouraged. Colosians 3: 20-21[/li]

[li]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity. 1 Timothy 3:4[/li]
[/list]

Did you notice how balanced the above is?  As much as parents are charged to correct their kids, by flogging if needs be, they are not to provoke them.  This is because the reason for the flogging is not to punish or inflict injuries (which is wrong) but to discipline the child, to guide the child.  God holds parents accountable for their kids, for as long as they are still in your care.  Ask Eli (1 Samuel 12) and he will tell you better.

This is not to give a license for child abuse and other vices.  They are wrong.  But the truth remains you can't rule out the use of the cane.  There are certain situations you just have to apply it, in love.  God expects it.  If you leave the child to himself or society, you will lose him/her.

Life is in stages.  The kind of correction you give a toddler is not the same you give a teenager.  There are discipline styles that work differently with each development stage.  Thank God for time-outs and withdrawal of priviledges and all that.  You have to experience parenting to fully understand.  I speak as a parent.  There is a difference between childishness and naughtiness/stubborness.  You should not flog a child for behaving his/her age (childishness), you employ other types of discipline.  But there are outright stubborness and disobedience characteristic of kids that you have to deal with, lest the child go astray.  These kind respond only to canes.  Let me give you an example that happened recently.

I have a 4+ year old that's in Primary 1.  I happen to be a very loving dad she enjoys to be around.  We play and talk a lot.  So don't tell me I'm not a good parent.  She was given home-work to do.  She knew what to do and the mum guided her.  She did everything right except one particular figure 3 she prefers to write in her own wrong way.  This started around 5pm.  The mum stopped her favorite cartoon programme (talking about priviledges) so she could correct her mistake.  It didn't work.  Stopped her from going to her friends to play, tried to plead with her etc.  None worked.  She simply refused to correct the wrong figure.  The mum now called my attention about 2 hrs later.

As a friend of hers, I tried all I could to get my precious daughter re-write the number, she simply refused.  I stopped the session and gave her time to come back to it.  By 8 pm, my daughter was still adamant.  By this time, she han't even eaten her food and it was getting to her bedtime.  What do you call this and Seun what will you do?  Do you leave her and pet her on the back and bid her goodnight?  Of course, dad has to bring out the cane.  I took time to explain to her why dad has to flog her.  I did.  Guess what?  It took her just 20 secs to do the right thing!

Do I love my daughter?  You bet.  In fact, if I had left her that night, she would have learn't a bad lesson that if she can insist on her way she will always get her way.  She still hugged me after the homework and we played together.  Now she knows if she does something wrong the cane is not too far away and dad knows how to use it, if needs be.  It is all about love and discipline.  The two must be balanced.

Thank you.

That "manufacturer's manual" was written by people who saw no problem with something as bad as slavery. Why won't such a manual give you the impression that it's ok to beat a child? Afterall, slavery is also 'ok'!!

The old testerment as Analytical has so nicely quoted is a book full of blood shed.
So we should be ~~~~~_{plucking out our kids eyes and cutting off their hands so that they will not sin.#}++~~~~~~

Manual or no ,anual all i know is whoopin a child tomes without number is not the best thing it makes them worse

Analytical,

Lets analyze this

Fact # 1: There are many very successful individuals in this world that were beaten by their parents
Fact # 2: There are many very successful individuals in this world that were never beaten by their parents
Fact # 3: There are many very unsuccessful individuals in this world that were beaten by their parents
Fact # 4: There are many very unsuccessful individuals in this world that were never beaten by their parents
Fact # 5: There are many well behaved children in this world that were beaten by their parents
Fact # 6: There are many well behaved children in this world that were never beaten by their parents
Fact # 7: There are many badly behaved children in this world that were beaten by their parents
Fact # 8: There are many badly behaved children in this world that were never beaten by their parents

Conclusion: Success or failure, well behaved or badly behaved does not depend on a child being beaten.

For me, if I know that there is a method for raising children that involves beating them like animals, and a method for raising children that involves not beating them, I will take the time and effort to go the non-beating route.

It requires patience, reading, talking to people who have done it successfully, etc. It is costly (time, maybe money) to bring up kids without beating. Beating on the other hand needs no teaching. Any dummy can beat a child.

So until someone on this thread tells me that there is a guarantee that not beating a child will lead to the child being dysfunctional, then I will not beat my child. Instead I will invest all that is necessary to bring him up the right way without any violence.

I advise you all to do the same. If you beat your child you teach him that beating someone is the way to get them to behave in a certain way. So they get in trouble at school for fighting, trying to beat someone to have their way. What do you do when you hear? You beat him. Now he is being punished for what you as a parent has taught him.

If beating is such a good way to make people do what they don't want to do then why end it with children. Maybe our bosses should beat us when we don't deliver projects on time. Per analytical, maybe not on the first time, but surely after the 6th missed deadline the cane deserves to come out. Of course if our boss tells us why we are being flogged then it has to be okay. How about after the 3rd speeding ticket the police brings out a rod and hammers our buttocks. Of course we will stop speeding when we think of that.

The most pathetic sight I behold and I see this often is a mother beating a child and the child running to the same mother for comfort. Makes me sick to see the child so confused that the one she expects nurturing from is the one that visits her with violence. It is in this state of mind that a 4 year old is expected to fully understand why she is being punished?

There are certain things you have to experience to fully understand.  I do not support violence and abuse in any of it's ramifications, whether it is to a child or to an adult.  Inflicting injuries and beating a child like an animal is child abuse.  Neither should you discipline a child just for it's own sake.  I said as much in my post.  Anyone that does that does not deserve to be a parent. 

Cane is not what to use at every opportunity because you are stronger than the child.  It should be used with a purpose and sparingly.  If you condone certain things in kids, it sets bad precedence that will work negatively as the child develops.  Let us love and correct our children.  People can abuse anything.  That doesn't make that thing wrong in itself.  Abuse is ab[/b]normal [b]use of a thing.  Because people abuse the use of the internet, does that make it wrong?

While I don't expect everybody to agree with me, people should not shy away from certain truths.  I did say there are stages in life.  The way you correct a toddler is not the same way you correct a teenager.  There are different ways of approach, even between children of the same ages, because of individual differences and temperaments.  I challenge everyone that keeps saying their parents did not lay a cane on them to ask their parents.  They will tell you they did when you were much younger than you remembered!  But as you grew up, there was no need to use it again because the lessons of life they wanted you to learn were beginning to sink in.  I repeat, life is in stages.

Children are tender.  It is easier to correct them while they are in their formative years,  just like you tend to a young plant, prune it, bend it and nurture it till it can weather the storm on its own.  You do all that because you love the child.  The decadence we experince in every society today is because of failed values in our homes.  There should be boundaries and principles.  Kids are wont to break them.  The reason you are a parent is not just to sire kids.  Training them (not abusing) is part of your responsibility as a parent.  Don't let us shy away from it.

And who says the old testament alone talks of discipline of a child.  Have you not read that Jesus himself said:

"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent." Revelation 3:19

Read this also:

Hebrews 12:5-11

5 And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
   My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,

6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?

8 If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!

10 Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness.

11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

I purposely quoted Proverbs in my earlier post because this is a book largely written by the one called the wisest man on earth- Solomon.  If someone as wise as that is talking to you on an issue you just have to listen attentively!  He is talking out of experience.

To answer Seun, the 'manual' is not giving you an impression that it's ok to beat a child,  it's commanding you to train and discipline your child if you love them, and if you have to use, not abuse, a cane, please do it.  Also, without intending to digress, there are historical accounts in the bible that explained what happened (as in slavery).  That doesn't show God's approval of such things.  After all, haven't you read God delivering them from such?

On a final note, why would people refer to a TV manual when something is wrong with a TV, but when something is wrong with society and humans, we are afraid referring to the Owner's manual?  I just wonder!

I will not allow this thread to degenerate into a discussion about religion. There is a separate section for that. If you can't discuss the merits and demerits of child abuse without forcing your religion on us, then buzz off!

Seun, you don't have to be rude. Nobody is discussing religion nor forcing religion on anyone here. I was careful about that. In fact, I deliberately choose my replies, so as not to devalue the issue at hand. But in making a particular point, what's wrong in citing references that are apt? You either take it or leave it! I don't think I have offended anybody's sensibility or religiousity by doing that. I will be the first to apologise if I did.

Analytical,

I completely agree with the statement that you have to experience certain things to fully understand. I have a 16 month old boy. Of course I have never hit him because of my beliefs, and for that reason, I have been very stern with him when I want him to stop something. He is the most obedient child. Every time we hang out with our friends and their kids, the comment on how well behaved he is. When I say STOP, he stops whatever he is doing. When I say NO he stops too. It was not easy instilling the need to obey my command without beating him, but I did it. I took extra time to make sure he stopped what he was doing when I said stop. I will spend an extra 20 minutes teaching him not to do something repeatedly stopping him until he gets the point. After that a stern NO stops him in the track. Of course I could have managed the same thing by smacking, slapping, canning, etc. in 1 minute, but I do not think that is the ONLY way (I believe there are negative consequences of beating) therefore it is not the BETTER way.

Now let me tell you what else people say about my son: He is such a happy baby, always smiling. He is so free with people, not shy at all. He has a good disposition. Now my mom's pal said, "It is very clear that this child is being brought up with love". Then I see my friends kids. I notice the children of the ones that have argued the use-the-road approach and they are timid, shy, demonstrate a level of insecurity, and they fall sick all the time (at 16 months my son has only had a cold twice).

So the question I have for you Analytical is this, if you believe that it is possible to bring up a child to be a responsible and successful individual without beatings, will you continue beating them? Please answer this or don't bother responding to my post because this is the core of my position and your response will assure me that you get my point of view

PS. You contradict yourself when you say you only use the cane in extreme circumstances and then you proceed to tell us how you beat your 4 year old because she wanted to write the # 3 in her own way. Fine you corrected this in one day. I will rather correct it in 2 weeks than beat that child. I will let her come back with that number marked wrong and then I will ask her to humour me and write it my way to see what her teacher thinks. And when the teacher marks it right she will learn two valuable lessons. 1) I know more than she does 2) The way to write the # 3. That is what the point of the homework is right? To teach her how to write numbers. Please, please, please do not visit violence on your kids because they are confused on the importance of homework.

@owen1968


i said the same thing when my boys were that age, but at their present age i think i need to start punching them down, i have three boys and believe me they go through stages in life and a parent must change discipline accordingly.

Coco29, you beat me to that reply, but please don't punch them.  If you must flog them, use a cane and don't abuse it, and that should be after other means don't work and never do it when you are angry.  If they are grown-ups, you shouldn't flog.  Other methods will be much more effective.

Owen1968, why would you continue to beat someone who is obedient? To answer you, NO, I won't.  Notice I like using 'discipline'.  It is more positive than beating.  I will repeat what I said.  Life is in stages.  The type of discipline you give a  toddler is not the same with a teenager.  Even for kids the same age, approaches differ because no two kids are exactly the same, not even twins!

It will be the height of child abuse if you beat a 16 month old!  I have a 15 month old and I don't beat her.  But I still discipline her in her own little way using your approach, the same thing I did for the 4 year-old when she was her age.  I am proud to say I have happy children, well behaved and developed, never timid or afraid to express themselves, ever laughing and singing.  Mere hearing the sound of their dad's car coming home, you will think I've been away for months by the joyous welcome!  This happens everyday.

"When I was a child I spoke like a child, but when I grew up, I threw away childish things"  says Paul.  There is a time to scold and a time to apply a firmer approach.  The gravity and approach of the discipline is determined per stage.

God bless.

PS:  Please discipline using cane is not the same as violence. Maybe what I did not say was that that was not the first time my 4 year-old was doing that.  Sorry for the ommision.  It was extreme and I needed to act that night because it's been going on for some time.  She actually got lower marks before because she was bent on doing it her own way, not that she doesn't know how to write it well.  The other method did not work.  Right now, tell her to correct something and off she goes running and back corrected!  The point was not the number she couldn't write, but the number she refused to write- the disobedience.  Kids could be stubborn, sometimes, you know.

@ANALITICAL


i will not punch them however i will use a belt, it has been a long time since i have slapped my boy but as they are getting older some how they feel that i am no longer in control so i had to bring the belt out.



THEY ARE PERFECT LITTLE ANGELS NOW

COCO29: Slapping them around did not work? Obviously the earlier use of the belt did not work too. Don't forget to escalate to cutlass when they become imune to the belt too. :-)

Analytical,

I do notice you like using discipline, and I wonder why when what you are doing is beating. You talk about not beating your 1n month old, but I'm sure you know people that do. You beat your 4 year old and I know people who don't beat theirs. You appear to be proposing not beating a teenager, but I know people that got beaten as teenagers. My point? For every age and stage that someone thinks beating is right, others think it is wrong and have found other method of non-violent discipline effective. That is my point, if other people can effectively discipline children (10 months to 20 years) what makes mine the animal that has to be beaten?

So I will ask this question again: are you saying that if you don't beat your children then they are doomed? Are you saying no other method will work? Are you saying you have no time to try other methods? I understand that she was being stubborn, that is what children do, because they cannot fully express themselves yet. The question is what is she trying to tell you by being stubborn? Is she trying to assert her individuality? I don't know. It is obvious you love your kids and they love you. But I tell you if your relationship with your kids is at a 9 on a 10-scale, that is because beating has cost you one point.

@owen

don't be rediculous why would i use a cutlass on my kids i live in london where you can hit as long as you do not mark.
i know when it has moved from discipline to abuse.


my youngest son has this habit of misbehaving in school, if he does not get his own way he would trash the class room i will have none of that, the first time he did it i put him to sit down and had a talk, i told him what i expect from him, the second time the same thing by the third i peppered his ass with licks he is now one of the top studentS, mind you after age 11 i will not hit them i feel at that age their pride as men has develope for me to hit would be to chalenge their manhood.


HOWEVER IF THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE MAN ENOUGH TO DISRESPECT ME AFTER I RAISED THEM ALL BY MYSELF I WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THEM I DEMAND RESPECT FROM THEM ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT AGE THEY ARE.

I am not being ridiculous, just magnifying to make things clear. You say "HOWEVER IF THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE MAN ENOUGH TO DISRESPECT ME AFTER I RAISED THEM ALL BY MYSELF I WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THEM I DEMAND RESPECT FROM THEM ALWAYS NO MATTER WHAT AGE THEY ARE". What if they continue to disrespect after the shit has been beat out of them? So beating has failed to achieve the effect you desire, then what? In my mind the next step after beating is cutting, or no?

Analytical: below are some definitions from www.dictionary.com
beating: to strike violently or forcefully and repeatedly
violence: Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing

To beat is to strike violently, violence is abuse. To beat is to abuse. So please just know, based on the meaning of these words, when you beat you abuse. If you don't want to abuse your children stop striking them with physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing them.

@owen


this topic seems to be very important to you, deeper than just your believe so, i will not argue with you over to hit or not to hit, what i will say is this, not every child can be discipline this way, i will not use a belt on my daughter i feel girls need to be spoken too and have privileges taken away, i do not go around like a mad woman beating my kids far from it, i do a lot of go to yr room, but some occasions calls for a slap, i make a point not to hit them if i am angry and believe me months can go by with out me hitting them. lets just say my children now know how, when and where to behave a certain way.

Owen1968, I expected you to complete the definitions by putting what discipline means too.  I will put it from the same source (www.dictionary.com) you used.

Discipline:
1. training to act in accordance with rules; drill: military discipline.  
2. activity, exercise, or a regimen that develops or improves a skill; training: A daily stint at the typewriter is excellent discipline for a writer.  
3. punishment inflicted by way of correction and training.
12. to punish or penalize in order to train and control; correct; chastise.

I maintain you can discipline by the use of cane, if you have to.  Two strokes of the cane to the butt is not violence!  Moreso, that is why you make sure the kid understands why you are doing it.  A 15 month old cannot.

I'm not a monster that will strike violently or forcefully and repeatedly to cause damage or abuse.  That is why I don't beat, I discipline.  Discipline is training, the use of the cane may come in as part of the process.

No, I did not say if you don't beat you are doomed.  You have every right to use whatever means you want (abuse not inclusive) to train your child.  But love must be balanced with discipline.  I will tell you what she was trying to tell me by being stubborn- 'I can have my way if only I insist'.  And I corrected that.  She learnt 1. she cannot always have her way 2. to honour and obey her parents 3. to respect higher authority.  Those are 3 points I would have lost on that scale!

I am careful not to violate the individuality and independent nature of my kids by giving them enough room to express that. But there must be boundaries, to the extent another principle is not broken in the course.  That is my duty as a parent while they are still in my care.

Cheers.