justwise:


Anyway forget it, I blame men who allowed themselves to be used by professional single mothers who got no interest in marriage.

If I'm getting married tomorrow I will do that with my 4 eyes opened

and this is all you need to do instead of making unwise decisions and blaming them on others or the law later on

Moana:
how about paying more attention to her character and not her beauty or other physical attributes?

They all wrapped it up, play the good girl game until they get pregnant or married then they on leashed their true colours.

This is just one of the many horror stories!

Barbara Kay, National Post · Tuesday, Nov. 16, 2010

Last week Ontario announced it will begin impounding cars of fathers who fall behind in their child support payments. What, are mere licence suspensions not driving enough men to despair?

On Aug. 31 Paul Donovan, age 50, a reliable long-haul trucker, lay down beside train tracks near his home in London, Ont., and rolled himself into the path of an oncoming train. Most people would call it a suicide. Not his common-law partner, Brenda Higgins. Ms. Higgins holds Ontario's Family Responsibility Office (FRO) liable for his death, and will launch a lawsuit to that effect.

Paul's ex-wife works, owns a home and drives a new car. Neither she nor their children -- today adults of 18 and 21 -- are, or ever were, impoverished. Paul had been paying regular child support since 1996. But during the trucking industry's recent hard times, Paul was temporarily unemployed, and missed two support payments.

Although he was soon back at work, Paul's commercial licence was suspended by the FRO. They refused to reinstate it without payment of $1,500 Paul hadn't yet earned. Their irrational licence suspension ensured he couldn't earn it. Ms. Higgins' scant income is only sufficient to support her three children. According to Ms. Higgins in a telephone interview, several pleas to negotiate the amount and schedule of payments with the FRO by Paul, his MPP and an ombudsman were rebuffed.

Bills mounted, but Paul's livelihood remained blocked. He couldn't afford a lawyer, and when he acted for himself a judge told him she couldn't help him. The FRO took him to court, petitioning for $10,000 or 188 days in jail. Appalled, Paul confided to Ms. Higgins he would rather die than serve such a sentence. Famous last words.

Every province has similar support-payment enforcement agencies. The FRO's Kafkaesque persecution of delinquent fathers is not unique to Ontario. These collection agencies are unaccountable, quasi-penal bodies. They hold powers to invade privacy without a warrant, and to impose criminal-level penalties for non-payment. But unlike defendants in criminal courts, FRO victims don't have the protections of due process.

I gained a fuller understanding of these inherently unjust agencies from a 2010 study in the Canadian Journal of Law and Society: "Punishing our way out of poverty: The Prosecution of Child-Support Debt in Alberta, Canada" by Nipissing University academic Paul Millar.

The privatization of child-support enforcement in the 1980s was conceived of as a means of reducing welfare handouts from the state. The initiative sprang not from politicians, but from legal academics who erroneously linked divorce to the impoverishment of women and children. The setting of guidelines was, according to Mr. Millar, "a judicially fostered social policy aimed at reducing poverty."

Imprisonment for debt is sometimes grouped with torture and slavery in human rights discourse, and was abolished here under the 1869 Debtor's Act as "not consistent with the morals of the day." Debtor's prison was only reinstated at the urging of radical feminist legal activists in the 1980s for one group: fathers behind on support payments.

In what Mr. Millar calls "inverted justice," Canada is one of a tiny handful of Western countries that jails men for an essentially civil offence without the procedural protections accorded real criminals, such as: the right to remain silent, the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty, the right to an impartial arbiter and the right to legal representation.

Reliable data demonstrates unequivocally that this regressive form of taxation disproportionately affects blacks, aboriginals and the poor, since the highest rates are reserved for those with the lowest income (under $20,000 a year). Moreover, so-called "deadbeat dads" can't declare bankruptcy. "Deadbeat dads" is, by the way, a terrible slur on the majority of dads who want to pay, but can't; women who deny fathers legal access to children are never jailed or called "deadbeat mums."

While out looking for Paul on the afternoon of Aug. 31, Ms. Higgins arrived at the scene of his suicide, not 50 metres from their home. Seeing the police cars and ambulance, she "knew" without asking. The trauma threw her into a suicidal depression resulting in a six-week hospital stay.

Tally: A healthy, responsible, productive man is dead, a partner devastated. Two middle-class children have lost a loved father, three children an engaged stepfather. At the time of his death Paul Donovan owed a measly $4,000 in child support.

Ms. Higgins can hear the trains go by as she struggles to sleep. Is there a winner in this story? If so, who?

justwise:


They all wrapped it up, play the good girl game until they get pregnant or married then they on leashed their true colours.

let me ask you something what is a good girl supposed to do when she falls pregnant?

Moana:
let me ask you something what is a good girl supposed to do when she falls pregnant?

See a man as part of the child 's life and not as her cash machine or pay cheque

torontoboy:


Nor be only open eye, open sense, open everything!

Many Nigerians got themselves into nightmare purely for paper, after getting the paper the reality set in

justwise:


See a man as part of the child 's life and not as her cash machine or pay cheque

which is why you can go back to maintenance court when you are being exploited

justwise:


Many Nigerians got themselves into nightmare purely for paper, after getting the paper the reality set in

marrying a woman for papers is rational and being punished for it by the woman after finds out the truth is irrational? like i said its all about you having your cake and eating it, not the law favouring women.

Moana:
marrying a woman for papers is rational and being punished for it by the woman after finds out the truth is irrational? like i said its all about you having your cake and eating it, not the law favouring women.

You are so quick to reach your own conclusion, you read the wrong meaning of my post.

justwise:


You are so quick to reach your own conclusion, you read the wrong meaning of my post.

okay so what did u mean by that post then?

justwise:


You are so quick to reach your own conclusion, you read the wrong meaning of my post.

How right you are! Jumping to conclusions seems to be her strong point!
However not only Nigerians are involved in this. On the contrary, even whites,Pakistanis, Indians and Islanders are caught up in the issue.
I will still reiterate here that i believe one should cater for his own, but the exploitation by women and the way the Government handles it is what is wrong!

Going to court here is a nightmare which you will never wish on your enemy if you had one. The lawyers are like vampires who will suck you dry. At the day's end you will be so tired and fatigued mentally to the extent that you will be looking 'belu belu'... if you get my drift!

Moana:
okay so what did u mean by that post then?

I was referring to Nigerians who are so desperate for paper that they marry just anybody that can help them settle without taking time to think about the consequences

torontoboy:
Going to court here is a nightmare which you will never wish on your enemy if you had one. The lawyers are like vampires who will suck you dry. At the day's end you will be so tired and fatigued mentally to the extent that you will be looking 'belu belu'... if you get my drift!

Your chances are pretty slim going through court especially if there is no evidence that the mother is unfit to look after the kids, the best you can get it an arrange visit...basically weekend daddy

justwise:


I was referring to Nigerians who are so desperate for paper that they marry just anybody that can help them settle without taking time to think about the consequences

at least we agree that a man is solely to blame for his unwise actions when the result is unfavourable to him

justwise:
[b]

Your chances are pretty slim going through court especially if there is no evidence that the mother is unfit to look after the kids, the best you can get it an arrange visit...basically weekend daddy

if you have no faith in the legal system you cannot blame them when you simply decide not to take action. You cannot be protected by something you have no faith in. If you decided not to fight it out, the consequences will remain yours to bare its as simple as that

Moana:
at least we agree that a man is solely to blame for his unwise actions when the result is unfavourable to him

The man is not solely to be blamed, women can also say no and get their eyes off his bank balance.

justwise:
[b]

The man is not solely to be blamed, women can also say no and get their eyes off his bank balance.

we are still talking about a person who wants to exploit others but doesnt want to be exploited abi?
Or are we saying a person shouldnt reap what they sow?

Moana:
we are still talking about a person who wants to exploit others but doesnt want to be exploited abi?
Or are we saying a person shouldnt reap what they sow?

Google those two names Mike Holpin and Keith MacDonald, some women deserve them.

justwise:


Google those two names Mike Holpin and Keith MacDonald, some women deserve them.

your level of maturity amazes me and who do you think suffers more psychologically the woman or the children? like i said your kind of reasoning is what the West is trying to keep from polluting society the way your guys have let if pollute Africa.
In a black mans mind that kind of behaviour is justifiable, and its really sickening.

Moana:
your level of maturity amazes me and who do you think suffers more psychologically the woman or the children?

The woman suffers psychologically financially while the kids miss their daddy.

Moana:
your level of maturity amazes me and who do you think suffers more psychologically the woman or the children? like i said your kind of reasoning is what the West is trying to keep from polluting society the way your guys have let if pollute Africa.

The west polluted their culture already, they made a mess of family. African marriages still last longer than western one. Western culture supports single motherhood

justwise:


The woman suffers psychologically financially while the kids miss their daddy.

a child who misses his daddy would say, " i would rather have hitler for a father". Black men blame racism for their inability to be as successful as other races, but with this post your reasoning alone proves to be the problem.

justwise:
[/b]

The west polluted their culture already, they made a mess of family. African marriages still last longer than western one. Western culture supports single motherhood

and single motherhood is a sin in Africa because women fall pregnant for dieties? Funny enough u went to seek greener pastures in the land of those that polluted your culture okay ooo continue

No justification for something as evil as that!

I beg to disagree!

ttmacoy:
Really?

What about the men who knowingly go around sleeping with such women, some of them even married?

What about all the many men who desert their children and leave them to be brought up by single mothers?

Yes some women abuse the law, but it was put in place due to the many many men who desert their responsibilities as fathers and leave many women struggling to bring up children as single mothers.

Moana:
and single motherhood is a sin in Africa because women fall pregnant for dieties?

Professional single motherhood is un-African because the culture does not support such family setting

justwise:



Professional single motherhood is un-African because the culture does not support such family setting

are you not furthering the breakdown of the so-called African family setting by impregnating women you have no intentions of marrying?

Moana:
and single motherhood is a sin in Africa because women fall pregnant for dieties? Funny enough u went to seek greener pastures in the land of those that polluted your culture okay ooo continue

Seriously do you derive pleasure from making things up or deliberately misinterpreting posts?

justwise:
[/b]

Seriously do you derive pleasure from making things up or deliberately misinterpreting posts?

is there anything i said thats not true?

Moana:
are you not furthering the breakdown of the so-called African family setting by impregnating women you have no intentions of marrying?

I'm not, the problem is that you don't take time to read and understand any argument before rushing into conclusion.

Moana:
is there anything i said thats not true?

Practically everything.

justwise:


I'm not, the problem is that you don't take time to read and understand any argument before rushing into conclusion.

and your problem is when i ask you a question that you know you cannot answer without contradicting yourself your shift the goal post instead.