Ken4Christ:
It is utterly vain to engage in any doctrinal argument with a jw. First, they are not Christian. They do not believe Jesus rose from d dead bodily. Second, it takes a spiritual man to understand spiritual truth. Third, they are very dishonest. Even when u clearly show them their errors, they will deny it. Pls contributors to this thread, save ur time & communicate to those that will hear d gospel and believe to d saving of their souls.

You guys are one with long standing heresy and who never agree in there proud life to be wrong. Any who knows Jehovah's witnesses knows that they accept mistakes and makes changes.

I have even chosen not to discuss with Pharisaic individuals here who loves blindness. Hope that many of my jw brothers here will know when to end the discussion and live many of u blind ones, especially those who are in love with blindness, so that they can stay so until that day.

Ken4Christ, jw rejects God's inspired word just to hold onto their false man made beliefs, and they accuse you to try and make themselves look better

three times I have asked Captivator to comment on the following, but jw rejects scriptures and change them to mean something else when those scriptures go against their beliefs

Captivator, Jesus Christ comes with all of His Saints
does the Angel Michael have saints, or
does God have Saints.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

CAPTIVATOR:

The bold says it all .....

It's seems unbeliveable how weak your replies are.

See how the trinity doctrine has really affected your thinking ! Ur STATEMENT ABOVE IS NOT SCRIPTURAL

It is indeed scriptural that John the Baptist is a prophet
It is indeed scriptural that Jesus Christ is a Prophet, Priest, Teacher, and King
You don't know the scriptures at all, do you?

If it mean prophet , please why would the greek scriptures use "angelos" while quotin malachi 3:1 in matthew 11:10 ? Pls answer.

Giv me some comedy, does "angelos" mean prophet ?

It is aggelos not angelos, which you use because that sounds like angel
aggelos doesn't mean Angel it means messenger, a messenger in the Bible can be an Ange, a pastor, Prophet, a teacher or absolutely anyone, yes anyone can be a messenger.
In the Bible Angels are specifically messengers, so jw say all messengers are angels, even john the Baptiust and Jesus Christ.
They are messengers but not Angels.
I know this will be to much for jw to understand.

False reasonin blinded by trinity spectacle , u say it mean anythin but angel BUT matt 11:10 says it mean " angel (angelos) " ?

Concerning John the Baptist and Jesus Christ, messenger does not mean Angel, but Prophet etc.

and again angelos doesn't mean Angel but messenger
in fact angelos doesn't mean anything, it's "aggelos"

Who is lyin btw d two of u

U of course, who is jw?

And while you are answering this post, don't neglect to answer the following this time.

Captivator, Jesus Christ comes with all of His Saints
does the Angel Michael have saints, or
does God have Saints.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Our Lord "kurios" means God, not Angel.

johnw74:

Ken4Christ, jw rejects God's inspired word just to hold onto their false man made beliefs, and they accuse you to try and make themselves look better

three times I have asked Captivator to comment on the following, but jw rejects scriptures and change them to mean something else when those scriptures go against their beliefs

Captivator, Jesus Christ comes with all of His Saints
does the Angel Michael have saints, or
does God have Saints.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

U AVOID MY QUESTION ... WHY ?

1) is Jesus a human or spirit messenger ?

2) what are spirit messengers of God called ?

...........

Jesus comin with his saints pictures Arch angel micheal ... Its very clear that Christ is the arch angel because Jesus is described as arch - angel in 1the 4:16. Whose voice will raise the dead ? Joh 5:25

tartar9:
He is the SLAVE of Allah

Slavery in islam just cant be over emphasise.

johnw74

Concerning John the Baptist and Jesus Christ, messenger does not mean Angel, but Prophet etc.

Aggelos means "prophet" ? Anyone readin this will know u aint serious

and again angelos doesn't mean Angel but messenger

Is Jesus a spirit messenger ?

What are spirit messengers of God called ?

[size=25] In fact angelos doesn't mean anything, it's "aggelos [/size] "

Oh! It doesnt mean anything anymore , john .. U still gat alot of work to do .

CAPTIVATOR:

U AVOID MY QUESTION ... WHY ?

I have said it at least a dozen times
I don't discuss with those who rejct God's scriptures
however I may at times continue to show up some of your wrongs

Jesus comin with his saints pictures Arch angel micheal ... Its very clear that Christ is the arch angel because Jesus is described as arch - angel in 1the 4:16. Whose voice will raise the dead ? Joh 5:25

You have avoided answering about 1Thess 3:13 four times because it shows you are wrong, and you cannot admit to being wrong
you rather believe man's lies than believe the Truth of God's scriptures

Do the Saints belong to God?
Or do the Saints belong to Michael the Angel?

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is God, He comes with all His Saints.
And it's impossible for jw to admit to TRUTH that goes against their false man made doctrines,
to their grave peril, the lake of Fire.

CAPTIVATOR:


Aggelos means "prophet" ? Anyone readin this will know u aint serious



Is Jesus a spirit messenger ?

What are spirit messengers of God called ?


Oh! It doesnt mean anything anymore , john .. U still gat alot of work to do .

Post after post you do not have a clue

CAPTIVATOR:


Jesus comin with his saints pictures Arch angel micheal ...

Archangel Michael doesn't have Saints, God does, Jesus Christ comes with all His Saints

Its very clear that Christ is the arch angel because Jesus is described as arch - angel in 1the 4:16. Whose voice will raise the dead ? Joh 5:25

Jesus is not described as Archangel in 1 Thess 4:16
but twisting taking away from and adding to scripture is normal jw practise


For the benefit of believers

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


The Angel of the Lord is often the voice of the Lord,
Jesus Christ sent revelation to John through His Angel,
and he spoke as if he is the Lord

According to jw reasoning
If because Jesus Christ comes with the voice of the archangel means that Jesus Christ is the archangel, then Jesus Christ coming with the trump of God means that Jesus Christ is the trumpet.

1Thess 3:13 shows that Jesus Christ Who comes with all His Saints, is God and not an Angel.
1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saint.

As Heb 1:5 shows the Father saying He has never called an Angel His begotten Son.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Are Saints, God's Saints?
or
Are Saints, Michael's Saints?

"Jesus Christ comes with all His Saints"

JMAN05:


You guys are one with long standing heresy and who never agree in there proud life to be wrong. Any who knows Jehovah's witnesses knows that they accept mistakes and makes changes

Ha ha, not at this forum they don't

I have even chosen not to discuss with Pharisaic individuals here who loves blindness. Hope that many of my jw brothers here will know when to end the discussion and live many of u blind ones, especially those who are in love with blindness, so that they can stay so until that day.

You wan't to know about:

heresy
pride
pharacees
blindness

First look at yourself and then
Go here:

http://www.jwfacts.com/

johnw74:


It's seems unbeliveable how weak your replies are.






It is indeed scriptural that John the Baptist is a prophet
It is indeed scriptural that Jesus Christ is a Prophet, Priest, Teacher, and King
You don't know the scriptures at all, do you?



It is aggelos not angelos, which you use because that sounds like angel
aggelos doesn't mean Angel it means messenger, a messenger in the Bible can be an Ange, a pastor, Prophet, a teacher or absolutely anyone, yes anyone can be a messenger.
In the Bible Angels are specifically messengers, so jw say all messengers are angels, even john the Baptiust and Jesus Christ.
They are messengers but not Angels.
I know this will be to much for jw to understand.





Concerning John the Baptist and Jesus Christ, messenger does not mean Angel, but Prophet etc.

and again angelos doesn't mean Angel but messenger
in fact angelos doesn't mean anything, it's "aggelos"




U of course, who is jw?

And while you are answering this post, don't neglect to answer the following this time.

Captivator, Jesus Christ comes with all of His Saints
does the Angel Michael have saints, or
does God have Saints.

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Our Lord "kurios" means God, not Angel.

Its funny how CAPTIVATOR dismiss your arguments as ignorant, knowing fully well that the watchtower has had up to about 5 contradictory views on the identity of angel micheal.

Michael the Archangel

Michael the Archangel is described in Daniel 10:13 as "Mi´cha·el, one of the foremost princes" and at Revelation 12:7 it says " Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled." In the fifty years between 1880 and 1930 there were five changes as to who Michael was.

1. An Angel that worships Jesus

"Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4

2. The Pope and Antichrist

"Michael and his angels"--the papacy and its supporters--fought against the dragon--pagan rulers, etc.,-- and the great dragon was cast out of heaven. Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6

3. Michael was the pre-human Jesus Christ

"Can it be that he who was called Michael--Jehovah's chief-messenger--was none other than our Lord in his pre-human condition? we conclude that HE must have been "chief messenger." " Zion's Watch Tower 1883 June p.3

4. The Pope again

"Michael.--- "Who as God," the Pope." The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188

5. Jesus in heaven

Since the 1930's Michael is explained to be the heavenly name for Jesus.

"For many years Jehovah's Witnesses have taught that Michael is a heavenly name for the only-begotten Son of God, who was named Jesus while on earth." Watchtower 1984 December 15 p.26

The Governing Body of the Watchtower Society demonstrate that they have no idea as to how to interpret Revelation.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/revelation-daniel-prophetic-interpretation.php

Does it mean that mean that the truth can be recycled and updated ?

Suppose their stance changes and angel micheal is no longer jesus christ, does that mean that you would no longer be ignorant

So the bunch of governing clowns once spread lies?

Jehovah help us.

paulGrundy:


Its funny how CAPTIVATOR dismiss your arguments as ignorant, knowing fully well that the watchtower has had up to about 5 contradictory views on the identity of angel micheal.



http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/revelation-daniel-prophetic-interpretation.php

Does it mean that mean that the truth can be recycled and updated ?

Suppose their stance changes and angel micheal is no longer jesus christ, does that mean that you would no longer be ignorant

So the bunch of governing clowns once spread lies?

Jehovah help us.

That is amazing, and it's amazing how people stay with that org. with all the changes of beliefs over the years, which should show them that it is not the Holy spirit leading them but just man, and I believe it proves these verses:

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



A lot of jwfacts at your site, I have only glimpsed at it so far.
http://www.jwfacts.com

4. The Pope again

"Michael.--- "Who as God," the Pope." The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188

That's a doozer

In 1917 jw was teaching that Michael......is God.....is the Pope

What am I saying,
they are all doozers.

Well they had part of it right in 1879:

1. An Angel that worships Jesus

"Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4