frank317:


Why should u say if people don't believe in the bible, they shouldn't discuss it. How then can it be debunked if it is not discussed?

How it then be proven to be correct if not discussed? Aside from the usual "faith". And like other stories god promised not to destroy the world again so there is no way he can get angry and thus this generation can't witness it to take pictures. At least

What I believe simply is that there probably was a flood. Something like you would see in Lekki on a rainy day and due to lack of drainages and good roads there was a flood. The ancient jews, probably after smoking some jay, decided it was sooo huge that it MUST have happened all over the world. The "world" in this context refers to their village because they were oblivious of the fact that there were people also living in Asia and they were too myopic to comprehend what they were saying would imply.

There's really no point arguing with people who believed that bathing with salt water could cure/prevent ebola

AtheistD:
Why did God kill all the animals on Earth with the flood? Why didn't He just kill only the humans? Is there any particular reason why all the animals had to die?

If you really want to know, He wanted to start over. There were also some animals that were 'not right', so to speak. These animals had to be eliminated. It was a general cleansing sort of thing.

But that's another story. And you really don't want to know.

frank317:


Of course that is a rational answer... Of course you wouldn't just say God built the pyramid because you don't know.

The fact is that there are so many questions that man cannot answer or is yet to answer. Saying God did anything at all is a lazy man's thinking.

You don't know who built the pyramid yet your sensible brain can't just jump to a 'God did it' conclusion because that is not rational thinking.

This makes me wonder why you believe all those childish tales about the flood. Is it because it has to do with religion?

Jesus turning water to wine and all those biblical stories cannot be taken seriously ... They are just Jewish folk tale. If not why don't you believe in Odudua or some african folk tale. If you are quick to dismiss tales that do not make sense to you... Why do you think most supernatural stories in the bible shoulsnt be dismissed.

Because I see things others do not see.

Seriously though, I have always maintained that no matter how much someone preaches to you, if you have never had a supernatural thing happen to you in your life then it would take great faith for you to believe. Can you explain how I would pray for someone and put annointing oil on his eyes and then he would rush back from where he was and say I was trying to blind him? Surely you have a logical explanation for that?

Or how I would touch a patient and know he was a goner, no matter what would be done for him?

Or having three days of sleepless nights thinking of my mom loosing money and calling her on the third night only to find out she has lost hundreds of thousands of naira?


Any rational explanations for these?

Another reason I dismiss the Noah story is because it does not tell well of God. Why kill the whole world and save just eight people and few animals only for sin to continue right after the flood. What was the point of the venture? Just some tanthrum throwing act? If the eight people he save continued in sin or their off springs continued in sin what was the point of the flood? Why save them only for them to continue what you intended to destroy?

Freewill.

Someone has explained that very well here before.
You are asking if God is omniscient and knows all, why kill off the human beings if he knew they were just going to sin again.
Humour me for a moment.
If you have watched Men In BLack 3, you would have seen the Griffin, the last member of the Archanan race. The griffin is supposed to know everything that has been, that is , or that ever will be. But what griffin actually possesses is his ability to see different futures depending on the decisions people take at the time.

Freewill works sort of like that.

God saw that all of man's heart was inherently evil. Man's soul had become stained by the dark substance that was the devil and he was now a contaminated product. Man already had freewill and had the choice wehter to choose good or evil but he invariably always sought to do evil instead. God wanted to cleanse mankind with water, wipe out the whole lot, and probably start again.

But,

Noah had chosen to do good. God couldnt just kill him. So he decided to save him and his entire family with the hope that afterwards they would choose to do good and make the right choices via freewill. One forseeable future saw that they would, the other future saw that they wouldnt. And God does not interfere with freewill, that is strictly left for man. All he allows himself to do most times is influence it, same as the devil.

So Noah found favour in God's sight because he did good and so God decided to save him. This would not be the first or last time God has tried to save the righteous in the midst of total anahilaition of the wicked.
Unfortunately, man eventually went back to doing evil again. It was man's choice to do this. It could have gone either way but Man once again chose evil.

Why should u say if people don't believe in the bible, they shouldn't discuss it. How then can it be debunked if it is not discussed?

The Bible can be discussed as a storybook, as a historical book, as a scholarly book, as a philosophical book. But the true message of the Bible lies its Supernatural connotation i.e Faith in GOd and his message of Hope for all mankind. That is a supernatural message and since science has as yet not found a way to quantify the supernatural, the book cannot be discussed scientifically for such purposes.

P.S, if you discuss or study anything soley for the purpose of debunking it, then you can never see the message it holds. That is true for christianity, islam or even communism.

Royver:


Because I see things others do not see.

Seriously though, I have always maintained that no matter how much someone preaches to you, if you have never had a supernatural thing happen to you in your life then it would take great faith for you to believe. Can you explain how I would pray for someone and put annointing oil on his eyes and then he would rush back from where he was and say I was trying to blind him? Surely you have a logical explanation for that?

Or how I would touch a patient and know he was a goner, no matter what would be done for him?

Or having three days of sleepless nights thinking of my mom loosing money and calling her on the third night only to find out she has lost hundreds of thousands of naira?


Any rational explanations for these?

Lol... I also sometimes think of someone and all of a sudden they call me or they cone around. I dreamt of my grand mother's death far away in akwa ibom before she died the next day imo state... Seriously life itself is misery... Yet I fail to see how that makes the Noah's story a fact. Despite what we don't understand, its not right thatvwe should lose our sanity and believe any irrational story. BTW why are u a doctor if u believe God heals. Your profession is rebellious to ur believe.

Remind ma again... What the function of God whenever we suggest he exists because of a supernatural occurance.

Freewill.

Someone has explained that very well here before.
You are asking if God is omniscient and knows all, why kill off the human beings if he knew they were just going to sin again.
Humour me for a moment.
If you have watched Men In BLack 3, you would have seen the Griffin, the last member of the Archanan race. The griffin is supposed to know everything that has been, that is , or that ever will be. But what griffin actually possesses is his ability to see different futures depending on the decisions people take at the time.

Freewill works sort of like that.

God saw that all of man's heart was inherently evil. Man's soul had become stained by the dark substance that was the devil and he was now a contaminated product. Man already had freewill and had the choice wehter to choose good or evil but he invariably always sought to do evil instead. God wanted to cleanse mankind with water, wipe out the whole lot, and probably start again.

Hence he is a Gud of trial and error. Do you even know you are talking about a supposed creator of the world? If God exist I would say you just insulted him with the above.

Free will make no sense that is why you will try hard to explain it in your human words. But let me ask you,: if I want to eat rice tomorrow morning, does God know? If he knows I will eat rice tomorrow is the a probability that I might not eat rice tomorrow? Or does god not know if I will eat rice tomorrow? If he does not know... What then does he know?

But,

Noah had chosen to do good. God couldnt just kill him. So he decided to save him and his entire family with the hope that afterwards they would choose to do good and make the right choices via freewill. One forseeable future saw that they would, the other future saw that they wouldnt. And God does not interfere with freewill, that is strictly left for man. All he allows himself to do most times is influence it, same as the devil.

Lol..."with the HOPE that afterwards they would choose good..." I can't belive this is coming from a doctor... If it were mysogynist or ebukasblog or some other people here I would have understood, but u? Smh

All I see is you telling me that God is not sure of the future. That is he is into trial and error.

No vex... Why is freewill so precious to God? Will there be this free will in heaven? Do you think free will that has to rendered this world useless is a gift? What does your God tend to achieve with free will?

So Noah found favour in God's sight because he did good and so God decided to save him. This would not be the first or last time God has tried to save the righteous in the midst of total anahilaition of the wicked.
Unfortunately, man eventually went back to doing evil again. It was man's choice to do this. It could have gone either way but Man once again chose evil.

Of course it is not the first time... I just wonder why all his trial and error seem not to just work. And of course, mans choice will always over ride Gods desire...smh

The Bible can be discussed as a storybook, as a historical book, as a scholarly book, as a philosophical book. But the true message of the Bible lies its Supernatural connotation i.e Faith in GOd and his message of Hope for all mankind. That is a supernatural message and since science has as yet not found a way to quantify the supernatural, the book cannot be discussed scientifically for such purposes.

P.S, if you discuss or study anything soley for the purpose of debunking it, then you can never see the message it holds. That is true for christianity, islam or even communism.

Well, if I, an ordinary human see reason to debunk it, then it cannot be the word of the creator of this world.

frank317:


Lol... I also sometimes think of someone and all of a sudden they call me or they cone around. I dreamt of my grand mother's death far away in akwa ibom before she died the next day imo state... Seriously life itself is misery... Yet I fail to see how that makes the Noah's story a fact. Despite what we don't understand, its not right thatvwe should lose our sanity and believe any irrational story. BTW why are u a doctor if u believe God heals. Your profession is rebellious to ur believe.

Remind ma again... What the function of God whenever we suggest he exists because of a supernatural occurance.

IF life is a mystery, then maybe there is something beyond life, something beyond the physical, smeone in charge. It would be wise to invest towards that someone since death is imminent to all man.
And no, medicine is not rebellious to faith in God. That's what newly graduated doctors tend to say until they get some experience and are surrounded by life and death. Then they become deeply religious or deeply disturbed.
Story for another day.

Hence he is a Gud of trial and error. Do you even know you are talking about a supposed creator of the world? If God exist I would say you just insulted him with the above.



Free will make no sense that is why you will try hard to explain it in your human words. But let me ask you,: if I want to eat rice tomorrow morning, does God know? If he knows I will eat rice tomorrow is the a probability that I might not eat rice tomorrow? Or does god not know if I will eat rice tomorrow? If he does not know... What then does he know?

The discussion of freewill has spanned the ages. It is not something we can discuss conclusively here. Suffice it to say that God created humans in his image. Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isaiah 48:18.

The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14).

If God made us without freewill then there would have been no need for creation, no need for man to be fruitful and multiply, no need for nations and salvation. No need for anything. We would all be robots and the world would be very boring to say the least.

Lol..."with the HOPE that afterwards they would choose good..." I can't belive this is coming from a doctor... If it were mysogynist or ebukasblog or some other people here I would have understood, but u? Smh

All I see is you telling me that God is not sure of the future. That is he is into trial and error

.

you see what you want to see.
You won't see any farther than your nose until you chose to do so.
You once had faith and then you lost it and chose to become atheistic. Its your choice what you want to see. It all depends on where you stand. You know nothing of what I have seen as a doctor so kindly do not go there.

No vex... Why is freewill so precious to God? Will there be this free will in heaven? Do you think free will that has to rendered this world useless is a gift? What does your God tend to achieve with free will?

I dont know. You could try asking Him.

Of course it is not the first time... I just wonder why all his trial and error seem not to just work. And of course, mans choice will always over ride Gods desire...smh


Well, if I, an ordinary human see reason to debunk it, then it cannot be the word of the creator of this world.

All these seem like anger to me and your own personal opinion.
I could be wrong though.

Abeg I wan sleep. Do have a good night's rest.

Royver:


IF life is a mystery, then maybe there is something beyond life, something beyond the physical, smeone in charge. It would be wise to invest towards that someone since death is imminent to all man.
And no, medicine is not rebellious to faith in God. That's what newly graduated doctors tend to say until they get some experience and are surrounded by life and death. Then they become deeply religious or deeply disturbed.
Story for another day.

Maybe? Are you advising me to invest in uncertainties and loose my senses because life is a mystery? Well, me think if someone is really in charge and he wants to let me know... I WILL know. So, still in your maybe, how do you know how to invest in this someone? If death is eminent does that make me blindly run helter skelter in a bid to invest in this 'maybe' unknown someone?

Humor me Mr wise investor.... The last time I checked there are different human interpretation of this UNKNOWN someone and all people are claiming to have the right access to him while rejecting and condemning other channels... Shouldn't u be advising me to invest in all the channels. Is your rejection of a particular channel and acceptance of one not wasteful?

So tell me, since you 'wisely' invested in this UKNOWN, MAYBE creator... Have you gotten all the answers to life mysteries? If not why? Or are you still going to come with excuses?

The discussion of freewill has spanned the ages. It is not something we can discuss conclusively here. Suffice it to say that God created humans in his image. Unlike animals, which act mainly on instinct, we resemble our Creator in our capacity to display such qualities as love and justice. And like our Creator, we have free will.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life . . . by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: “O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.”—Isaiah 48:18.

The Bible does teach that God is Almighty, that his power is not limited by anyone other than himself. (Job 37:23; Isaiah 40:26) However, he does not use his power to control everything. For example, the Bible says that God was “exercising self-control” toward ancient Babylon, an enemy of his people. (Isaiah 42:14).

If God made us without freewill then there would have been no need for creation, no need for man to be fruitful and multiply, no need for nations and salvation. No need for anything. We would all be robots and the world would be very boring to say the least.

Free will makes no sense. Trust me I have thought deeply about it and many questions couldn't be answered and from the way you are going, I will still be left hanging. Seriously... Why are you talking like we are really free? There are lots of things that happens without considering our free will. A drunk driver crashes a bus with ten people... Tell me was it the ten peoples will to be crashed?
What is free will. I asked you... If I decide to use my free will to eat rice tomorrow, does God know what I will eat tomorrow? And will it be rice? Can I eat anything apart from rice? Is what I will eat tomorrow what God knows I will eat tomorrow? If you say what I will eat tomorrow is dependent on me... Are u also saying God does not know what i will eat tomorrow?
Yes the bible said a lot of things about a creator... And so did Koran and so did my for fathers.
Since free will is there not to make life boring... Has it better the world? What again is the function of free will?
Well, I'd rather be a happy zombie (which is how u will be in your heaven) than a miserable freewilled person. But it seem to me your Bible God does not know this.

.

you see what you want to see.
You won't see any farther than your nose until you chose to do so.
You once had faith and then you lost it and chose to become atheistic. Its your choice what you want to see. It all depends on where you stand. You know nothing of what I have seen as a doctor so kindly do not go there.

Now that you see beyond your nose, now that you have faith and are not atheistic... Am I to suggest you have all the answers to whatever you have seen as a doctor? Do u have answers to life mysteries? Perhaps you can answer my questions.

I dont know. You could try asking Him.

Of course you don't know and you don't want to ask him. Is this how you intend to make me see beyond my nose?

All these seem like anger to me and your own personal opinion.
I could be wrong though.

Abeg I wan sleep. Do have a good night's rest.

Anger? Someone points out the floors in your belief and the best suggestion DOCTOR Roy can give is call it anger? I don't even know what to tell you. Perhaps you are the one angry that I am making you realize that your whole belief is wishful thinking.

Good night/morning bro.

Royver:


If you really want to know, He wanted to start over. There were also some animals that were 'not right', so to speak. These animals had to be eliminated. It was a general cleansing sort of thing.

But that's another story. And you really don't want to know.

What was wrong with those animals?

Royver:


If you really want to know, He wanted to start over. There were also some animals that were 'not right', so to speak. These animals had to be eliminated. It was a general cleansing sort of thing.

But that's another story. And you really don't want to know.

General cleansing? Lol.. The ALMIGHTY CREATOR does a general cleansing and just like humans... It was not successful. Keep on insulting ur God

Royver:


If you really want to know, He wanted to start over. There were also some animals that were 'not right', so to speak. These animals had to be eliminated. It was a general cleansing sort of thing.

But that's another story. And you really don't want to know.

But this cleansing did not stop sin.An omniscient God should have forseen that don't you think?