I'd like to ask: is western style democracy (the election of one president; centralized government, etc) the way to go for proper accountability in the case of Africa? Tribal politics have played the most significant role in the conflict, corruption and strife prevalent in Africa and perhaps we should be looking for something that better fits our political state - I mean, take a look at Nairaland. If this website doesn't tell you about the tribal tension in Nigeria (and much of Africa), then nothing will.

How would a change of governance affect development? What, would you estimate, would make for an ideal model? Dictatorships haven't worked (as in the case of Singapore), and Western style democracy (as in the U.S.), doesn't seem too viable either.

I know someone is going to chip in with the success story of Botswana - we have to remember that it has unified stronghold (one main ethnic group, Setswana culture) and is a country with a small population. A model that would work for the likes of Nigeria, DRC, and Sudan would go miles in restoring order.

there is no basis for comparison yet simply because all these examples are not practising an uncorrupted form of democracy, a corrupted form of democracy heavily tinged with a healthy dose of lneo liberalism isnt and cant be likened to democracy as it is worse than even communism in my opinion, a pure democracy is the only viable option for africa even though this sounds utopian,it is possible to achieve something close

Nnenna1:

I'd like to ask: is western style democracy (the election of one president; centralized government, etc) the way to go for proper accountability in the case of Africa? Tribal politics have played the most significant role in the conflict, corruption and strife prevalent in Africa and perhaps we should be looking for something that better fits our political state - I mean, take a look at Nairaland. If this website doesn't tell you about the tribal tension in Nigeria (and much of Africa), then nothing will.

If Tribal politics and corruption and strife is prevalent in some African countries, should their chosen form of government then make provisions to continue to allow corruption and strife a legal place then? Does it make sense to tailor our chosen style of government in such a way that it continues to allow the above listed issues then?

I have to say I also wonder.

But the alternative- Dictatorship- is it actually the answer, as Mugabe has shown.

Which way out for Africa, really.

lucabrasi:

there is no basis for comparison yet simply because all these examples are not practising an uncorrupted form of democracy, a corrupted form of democracy heavily tinged with a healthy dose of lneo liberalism isnt and cant be likened to democracy as it is worse than even communism in my opinion, a pure democracy is the only viable option for africa even though this sounds utopian,it is possible to achieve something close

I don't think you understood my question.

The corruption bit is kind of where I'm driving at. Every government form has some corruption. However, conflict (be it tribal or other) will always be fodder for disorder, and in chaos, more opportunities will rise for those who have ulterior motives, thus making for corruption of the most insiduous kind.

Given our tribal-conflict tendencies, the real question is if a centralized, one-person ruler type democratic government has proven to be better for Nigeria or all of the conflict prone countries. If not, how can we change our ruling style to fit our political awareness better?

@KoboJunkie, refer to my answer.

@tpia, no, I don't subscribe to dictatorships either.

Western style doesn't help us simply because we allow the criminals who shipped our money to live freely among us.
We don't hold anybody responsible for embezzling our funds.

Western style doesnt help because we refused to first of all understand that we are different cultures merged together under one govt without regard to the differences.

We can happily live together if we device a plan of our own. Write and maintain our own rules without regard to western propaganda. I know there are some smart and reliable Nigerian politicians out there but they are few and the power of corruption engulfed their ideals. I am looking forward to the day the senate will bring out a good plan on how the country will move forward instead of trying to share Ghana-must-go bags behind the camera.

We can happily live together if we device a plan of our own. Write and maintain our own rules without regard to western propaganda. I know there are some smart and reliable Nigerian politicians out there but they are few and the power of corruption engulfed their ideals. I am looking forward to the day the senate will bring out a good plan on how the country will move forward instead of trying to share Ghana-must-go bags behind the camera.

You will wait till thy kingdom call

The one thing I've learnt is that Western-style anything will never work for Africa unless Africa reaches the stages of the Western world right now. Africa now is the Western world 200 years ago. We are backwards and we need to work on our own progression. To have another style of democracy mixed with all the tribal conflict will not and cannot work. You can't use aspirin to treat typhoid. . . we have to figure out how to make our democracy work for us and how it can catapult us to the Western level first (No curse, this is not going to happen anytime soon). When you have similar worlds, you can then employ their method of democracy.

I think we should apply shango-amadioha cracy,where public officers are required to take fire spitting oaths regularly to prove their loyalty.

Africans dread the wrath of the gods and for some reasons it yields results because the guilty always succumb,conscience.

Nnenna1:


I don't think you understood my question.

The corruption bit is kind of where I'm driving at. Every government form has some corruption. However, conflict (be it tribal or other) will always be fodder for disorder, and in chaos, more opportunities will rise for those who have ulterior motives, thus making for corruption of the most insiduous kind.

Given our tribal-conflict tendencies, the real question is if a centralized, one-person ruler type democratic government has proven to be better for Nigeria or all of the conflict prone countries. If not, how can we change our ruling style to fit our political awareness better?

going by your expanding the scope,i think firstly true patriotism from the average nigerian to the richest nigerians, will inspire love for one's country and being able to fight any individual or group of people who are bent on destroying the country,patriotism is the reason why indigenes of a country will rather go back to their country of origin for less pay than they r getting,or doing more in terms of social infrastructures,being social reformers/activists,politicians e.t.c this is something most nigerians do not have both home and abroad.

also,when there is no true patriotism,thats when tribal afiliations rear its head and people gravitate towards their own,china has more than one ethnic groups but being a patriotic chinese is the average chinese's first priority amongst many other nations.

lastly,i still re iterate that democracy in its true and unsullied form is still the best form of governance,but ill add that nigeria being the way it is with the tribes and religions e.t.c should have true federalism and divest the powers concentrated in the centre while still retaining the titular head of government,if you care to look through the ages since independence,having the right systems,laws e.t.c has never been our problem but implementation,when tunde idiagbon came along nigerians said he was too rigid,his regime encouraged the local rice,cassava bread making,war against indiscipline,local groundnut oil e.t.c but nigerians resisted him, fashola too is another example of taking hard decisions that ll benefit all in the long run,but being criticised for it.

Moonstone:

The one thing I've learnt is that Western-style anything will never work for Africa unless Africa reaches the stages of the Western world right now. Africa now is the Western world 200 years ago. We are backwards and we need to work on our own progression. To have another style of democracy mixed with all the tribal conflict will not and cannot work. You can't use aspirin to treat typhoid. . . we have to figure out how to make our democracy work for us and how it can catapult us to the Western level first (No curse, this is not going to happen anytime soon). When you have similar worlds, you can then employ their method of democracy.

I sort of agree!

Kobojunkie:

I sort of agree!

Oh wow! I'm quite shocked. At least you kinda agree.

I know someone is going to chip in with the success story of Botswana - we have to remember that it has unified stronghold (one main ethnic group, Setswana culture) and is a country with a small population. A model that would work for the likes of Nigeria, DRC, and Sudan would go miles in restoring order.

Senegal and Ghana aren't homogeneous countries. Even the US had a civil war but that didn't stop them from going on with the democratic experiment. 10 years of democracy and you want to give up?

Given our tribal-conflict tendencies, the real question is if a centralized, one-person ruler type democratic government has proven to be better for Nigeria or all of the conflict prone countries. If not, how can we change our ruling style to fit our political awareness better?

reduce the power of center and make the states more autonomous.

his regime encouraged the local rice,cassava bread making,war against indiscipline,local groundnut oil e.t.c but nigerians resisted him

his regime was resisted for trampling on freedom of the press and freedom of speech. you can't bully people to change. Such an idea didn't work during the Chinese cultural revolution.

bawomolo:



his regime was resisted for trampling on freedom of the press and freedom of speech. you can't bully people to change. Such an idea didn't work during the Chinese cultural revolution.

well he needed to take these actions to wean us out of the collective quagmire we v found ourselves, have you ever seen an heroine addict detoxing?
they r shivering and feeling pains all over, called withdrawal sympthoms,that is what idiagbon s regime was going through,we dont want to pass throught the bitter but we want to be like the western world,china e.t.c

and who says china is not heavily state controlled till now?the government controlles every single facet of life there even banks/financial institution,go and google the latest on the bank of china/rothschild of france merger and what is delaying it,the fact that china is still a sucess story not just because of state intervention but communism which we never had any intention of practising is enough reason to negate these concerns you have raised

I really feel a decentralised govt is what would suit Nigeria. Let each tribe or state develop at its own pace. Wester style democracy verbatim isnt the best for Nigeria now. Without ridding curruption to a very low percentage it would forever not work for us because we would never have a president that we elected.

Rigging is the biggest form of curruption!!!!!!!

There is nothing new under the Sun.

Igbo's were practising democracy way before the Europeans ever dreamed of it.

There is no reason why democracy cannot work in Africa as long as the people are united.

Some really sensible comments by Moonstone and Lagosboy.

We want to practice their styles when we dont have the kind of things they have to sustain what they practice. We want to start running with weak legs!

A lot of people who always advocate that everything has to be done the western way never think about the fact that there are so many western things/ways that will just not suit us. They may suit us later if some things are in place or if they change.

We are killing ourselves by just wanting to do everything exactly the way things are done in Western nations rather than take our peculiar circumstances into consideration.

This is really not about Democracy, which is not about the west, but more to do with our inability to understand that we cannot continue to cater to hooligans and barbarians among us when it comes to development and progress.

Like Naijaking mentioned, Democracy is not new to African Tribes. We still have Chiefs and Eze's for central government. Same you find in Yoruba land and hausa. Not sure how coming together at a national level should become a problem because suddenly people can not see past their tribal issues. I say please, we understand what DEMOCRACY really means and why it is the best.

JustGood:

Some really sensible comments by Moonstone and Lagosboy.

We want to practice their styles when we dont have the kind of things they have to sustain what they practice. We want to start running with weak legs!

A lot of people who always advocate that everything has to be done the western way never think about the fact that there are so many western things/ways that will just not suit us. They may suit us later if some things are in place or if they change.

We are killing ourselves by just wanting to do everything exactly the way things are done in Western nations rather than take our peculiar circumstances into consideration.

what exactly are the "western things"that wont suit us?
a government for the people and by the people wont suit us?what is your alternative, and what things do they have that we dont apart from commitment to good governnance,conscience both leading to good leadership?
maybe you need to look at their histories to know they all weathered through the strom we r going through as well

lucabrasi:

what exactly are the "western things"that wont suit us?
a government for the people and by the people wont suit us?what is your alternative, and what things do they have that we dont apart from commitment to good governnance,conscience both leading to good leadership?
maybe you need to look at their histories to know they all weathered through the strom we r going through as well

You have mentioned some things that they have in their societies upon which their  democracies are built which we dont have. Why should we then try to build the same type of democracies when we obviously lack those ingredients within us?

lucabrasi:

what exactly are the "western things"that wont suit us?
a government for the people and by the people wont suit us?what is your alternative, and what things do they have that we dont apart from commitment to good governnance,conscience both leading to good leadership?
maybe you need to look at their histories to know they all weathered through the strom we r going through as well

Ask yourself this question. since 1999 or even 1979 which president has Nigerians truly elected?

How many governors running govts of the people? at present it is only maybe Lagos,Kano,Bauchi and now Edo we can say have the governors they voted.

So how is this democracy favouring us. Curruption has to vanish before democracy can work for us.

bawomolo:

Senegal and Ghana aren't homogeneous countries.  Even the US had a civil war but that didn't stop them from going on with the democratic experiment.  10 years of democracy and you want to give up?

Are Ghana and Senegal countries you would herald as successes? Please explain why you think so - and don't say peacefully held elections.

How many years do you estimate will make good for Nigeria with the way we're going? 50? 100? 1000? At the tip of the apocalypse? I understand that it's a few centuries after the American Revolution, but the U.S. was a strong, notable nation even back in historical times. It was one created by its people from the get go, and not one given by colonialists (I'm talking about the Union, not the British colonies prior to the revolution). Thus,  the U.S. was not, and is not Nigeria. You're comparing apples and oranges.

I think it's a given that Nigeria isn't miles better than it was 10 years ago. B.O.S.S. and co will even tell you that things have changed for the worse.

The reason I pose these questions in the light of things is that I see a clash between our inherent cultural values and the political theories thrust upon us.  

Look at the situations peculiar to us: reverence for our respective tribes and a distrust for those different from us; the politics of the Muslim north versus the Christian south; the debacle at the Niger-Delta; the blatant corruption and disregard of good; detachment of government from the reality of everyday Nigerians; and the lack of voice from the average Nigerian.

When we're blindly follow a model of government made for different people in different situations, and don't tailor it to meet our demographic make-up and cultural beliefs, there's bound to be trouble,  and thus fodder for opportunists who will loot till kingdom come. Observe post-colonial Nigerian history - can you tell me that ethnic tensions did not play the biggest role in what we're dealing with?

I'm all for a form of government that best pays heed to the needs of its people and furnishes them.

And, from my estimation, I'm not sure if it's westernized democracy.  I'm all for democracy, but I don't know if what we're practicing is ideal for us. A one-president, one-capital type, might not be so ideal for the likes of DRC, Nigeria, Sudan, and Kenya. All we're getting, at the end of the day, is the scramble for perceived limited resources (in leadership positions and other) and conflict, and corruption, and the destructive cycle continues.

I also don't think that western democracy is the mount Everest of government forms either. It works because it works for them, and not because it's the most evolved democracy there is.

What is WESTERN democracy?

What we need is sincerity,accountability and positive objectives for the good of all.

Be it communism,we have to draw a line between good and evil,between sanity and insanity,between building and destruction,between criminality and civility,between law and lawlessness,between reasoning and irrationality,if you are not on the good side,you be on the bad side and happens to bad people in the society?they go to jail or be taken care of which ever way possible.

Be it the president,nobody should be above the law,we have to live by the tenets of what of what we call law,it doesn't have to be the whiteman's impose laws we are practicing today,that white people design to protect them against africans,still wearing whiteman's gowns and wigs in the fucking heat,looking like caricatures of white people in parliament,colo.

The world is ours,we got to work it out

Kobojunkie:

What is WESTERN democracy?

Didn't you read my posts?

The only thing wrong with the so-called western democracy are nigerians. They are too cowardly, hypocritical and busy boot licking and selling their destiny votes for small bags of rice.
Until nigerians decide to change this attitude, there's no system of government that can work in that country.

Nnenna1:

Didn't you read my posts?

I did, not sure why that is WESTERN in anyway. Like someone already pointed out, we already had that sort of government system in place before the West came into the picture. Wondering why the WESTERN tag now and why it no longer works for the same country and people it has worked for in hundreds of years.

Kobojunkie:

I did, not sure why that is WESTERN in anyway. Like someone already pointed out, we already had that sort of government system in place before the West came into the picture. Wondering why the WESTERN tag now and why it no longer works for the same country and people it has worked for in hundreds of years.

I agree - that has been my point all along. That is why I asked you - did you read my posts concerning why the western kind of democracy, one of many kinds, might not be viable? 

Sometimes I think you argue for the heck of it.

So simply asking you a question is arguing for the heck of it? Oh boy!!! No worries!!

Kobojunkie:

So simply asking you a question is arguing for the heck of it? Oh boy!!! No worries!!

*Sigh*

Nnenna1:

Are Ghana and Senegal countries you would herald as successes? Please explain why you think so - and don't say peacefully held elections.

How many years do you estimate will make good for Nigeria with the way we're going? 50? 100? 1000? At the tip of the apocalypse? I understand that it's a few centuries after the American Revolution, but the U.S. was a strong, notable nation even back in historical times. It was one created by its people from the get go, and not one given by colonialists (I'm talking about the Union, not the British colonies prior to the revolution). Thus, the U.S. was not, and is not Nigeria. You're comparing apples and oranges.

When we're blindly follow a model of government made for different people in different situations, and don't tailor it to meet our demographic make-up and cultural beliefs, there's bound to be trouble, and thus fodder for opportunists who will loot till kingdom come. Observe post-colonial Nigerian history - can you tell me that ethnic tensions did not play the biggest role in what we're dealing with?

I also don't think that western democracy is the mount Everest of government forms either. It works because it works for them, and not because it's the most evolved democracy there is.

NUFF SAID!

It was designed by them with their own cultural attitudes in mind

nuzo:

The only thing wrong with the so-called western democracy are nigerians. They are too cowardly, hypocritical and busy boot licking and selling their destiny votes for small bags of rice.
Until nigerians decide to change this attitude, there's no system of government that can work in that country.

Have you considered that we may be putting the cart before the horse? Why dont we adopt what will suit our attitude first?